Don't be an annoying medical student, please.

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Originally Posted by diagonal

Nothing gets by RxBoy.

Accumulate more than a couple hundred posts, then it will be more difficult for sleuths like him to find your embarrassing stuff.

Originally Posted by Bertelman

Accumulate more than a couple hundred posts, then it will be more difficult for sleuths like him to find your embarrassing stuff.

If you believe that post was serious, you should consider switching to IM.

.

Originally Posted by diagonal

If you believe that post was serious, you should consider switching to IM.

I don't know you from the hundreds of others that rarely post here. It would not at all surprise me to see a pre-med or young med student post that.

In fact, I have seen worse in application essays on the Admission Committee

Originally Posted by Bertelman

I don't know you from the hundreds of others that rarely post here. It would not at all surprise me to see a pre-med or young med student post that.

In fact, I have seen worse in application essays on the Admission Committee

That was the point.

Originally Posted by diagonal

Nothing gets by RxBoy.

How embarrassing!

As for the original post - just the other day I had an experience which got me rather annoyed. As everyone else has said, I love a med student interested in what's going on and any time they have the balls to sneak behind the drape to ask "what's up" I will talk their ear off until they feel uncomfortable about being away from the actual surgery.

However, last week someone who I initially thought was a med student on a surgery rotation just walked right up to the head of the bed for a pectus excavatum surgery. I'm sure seeing the beating heart was cool for her, however I was rather actively treating this patient.

I initially gave her the "are you f*cking serious?" look when she cavalierly stood directly in front of me and she aquiesced and said "do you mind?" so I said "please introduce yourself next time since this is anesthesia's work space. but go ahead."

When I hung albumin and she asked me what it was, my explanation that involved oncotic pressure caused her eyes to get glassy. I then looked at her name badge which said "research student" and it all made even more sense - she is totally outside the medical hierarchy and has zero self awareness in the OR. Needless to say when it was time to wake up I quickly dismissed her.

Originally Posted by yappy

lol. Sometimes you need to act - people may have previous health care experience that allows them to anticipate. Looks like it's the wrong thing to do. I get it - it would make me nervous too because you dont know the students skills.

In different professional cultures (ie. military) it's considered a good thing to be aggressive and take the bull by the horns. If people are in a training position and they're not anticipating, aggressive, and trying to do w/e they can until someone tells them "no" than they're not regarded as a good trainee.

Thoughts:

(1) The action you proposed earlier (identifying a clinical problem as well as its solution in a very bold fashion) is simply presumptuous. You're implying that the anesthesia provider isn't doing their job properly (or some aspect of it) and that you can do it better. As others have pointed out, this is far more likely to really piss people off than win you brownie points.

(2) Some people (like me) are very particular about how their anesthesia cart is set up, which drugs are drawn up, where they're located, etc... This is quite helpful in truly critical situations. As you might imagine, disrupting this setup isn't well received.

(2) Regardless of prior health care experience and perceived need to act, the fact is that the vast majority of people in health care know very little about anesthesia (i.e. you almost certainly have no anesthesia "skills"). So, the odds of you correctly identifying a problem, its etiology, and solution are fairly slim.

(3) There's nothing wrong about being aggressive in seeking out learning opportunities (within reason), just don't be a DB about it. A more reasonable approach might be to inquire about it after the fact. Something along the lines of:

I noticed a little while ago that the pt became (insert condition here). Why do you think that happened? What did you do in response? Why did you choose that approach/therapy?

Here, you've stayed out of the way and allowed the anesthesia provider to respond to the issue at hand but still hopefully learned something meaningful in the process. Once you start to establish relationships/rapport with some of the anesthesia folks at your hospital, then your role may become more active with time.

Hahahaha.... Hope I'm not one of those, but I'm sure I am. I wish I had an anesthesiologist to talk to in my cases, but most of the anesthesia providers in my cases (ENT) have been SRNAs. Bummer.

Originally Posted by RT2MD

Hahahaha.... Hope I'm not one of those, but I'm sure I am. I wish I had an anesthesiologist to talk to in my cases, but most of the anesthesia providers in my cases (ENT) have been SRNAs. Bummer.

They're called CRNAs. And what the OP failed to realize in his storm of "I'm senior to you, so I'll start throwing out stupid rules of interaction," is that he's only further alienating students interested in the field. Students with poor experiences leads to less interest in the field which leads to apathy which leads to more CRNAs which leads to ****tier careers for those who go into Anesthesiology. Joke's on the OP, but since he's now an attending and feels his new prerogative is to play hardass with medical students, he doesn't even realize it.

Originally Posted by diagonal

They're called CRNAs. And what the OP failed to realize in his storm of "I'm senior to you, so I'll start throwing out stupid rules of interaction," is that he's only further alienating students interested in the field. Students with poor experiences leads to less interest in the field which leads to apathy which leads to more CRNAs which leads to ****tier careers for those who go into Anesthesiology. Joke's on the OP, but since he's now an attending and feels his new prerogative is to play hardass with medical students, he doesn't even realize it.

Nope... These have all been SRNAs... All have been students. I've interacted with staff a few times at inductions/emergence, trying to find that fine line of being visible/not in the way... I'm not offended or scared off by his posts. I understand that when the shiz is hitting the fan, that is NOT the time to ask "what's the red number mean?"

Originally Posted by RT2MD

Nope... These have all been SRNAs... All have been students. I've interacted with staff a few times at inductions/emergence, trying to find that fine line of being visible/not in the way... I'm not offended or scared off by his posts. I understand that when the shiz is hitting the fan, that is NOT the time to ask "what's the red number mean?"

I guess that "incredible and rare mind" missed that one.

Originally Posted by RT2MD

Nope... These have all been SRNAs... All have been students. I've interacted with staff a few times at inductions/emergence, trying to find that fine line of being visible/not in the way... I'm not offended or scared off by his posts. I understand that when the shiz is hitting the fan, that is NOT the time to ask "what's the red number mean?"

Even more to the point. The badass anesthesiologist fails to realize that the student he thinks he's intimidating just came off a rotation where a student nurse was doing the same job. Free advice: if you want to protect your field, the very least you can do is foster an appreciation of it in future physicians.

Originally Posted by diagonal

Even more to the point. The badass anesthesiologist fails to realize that the student he thinks he's intimidating just came off a rotation where a student nurse was doing the same job. Free advice: if you want to protect your field, the very least you can do is foster an appreciation of it in future physicians.

Dude, you already got pantsed in front of the entire school assembly at a pep rally when Rx outed you as being a total clown.

Everything you say henceforth is meaningless. No one takes you seriously, it isn't gonna work. You're a joke bro. We could never hang out.

Originally Posted by diagonal

They're called CRNAs. And what the OP failed to realize in his storm of "I'm senior to you, so I'll start throwing out stupid rules of interaction," is that he's only further alienating students interested in the field. Students with poor experiences leads to less interest in the field which leads to apathy which leads to more CRNAs which leads to ****tier careers for those who go into Anesthesiology. Joke's on the OP, but since he's now an attending and feels his new prerogative is to play hardass with medical students, he doesn't even realize it.

Originally Posted by diagonal

Even more to the point. The badass anesthesiologist fails to realize that the student he thinks he's intimidating just came off a rotation where a student nurse was doing the same job. Free advice: if you want to protect your field, the very least you can do is foster an appreciation of it in future physicians.

This guy has to go into surgery.
He knows everything about everything already. I know a great hospital where you can apply to be the chief. The current one has his had in his ass as well. At least he's technically outstanding.

You'll see the difference soon enough chief. Just wait.

Originally Posted by diagonal

Even more to the point. The badass anesthesiologist fails to realize that the student he thinks he's intimidating just came off a rotation where a student nurse was doing the same job. Free advice: if you want to protect your field, the very least you can do is foster an appreciation of it in future physicians.

I'm so glad you've joined us, d.

If we want to protect our field, I would prefer to selectively foster the interest of those with some level of self-awareness. That seems to exclude both the subject of the OP, and of course, you.

Originally Posted by diagonal

Even more to the point. The badass anesthesiologist fails to realize that the student he thinks he's intimidating just came off a rotation where a student nurse was doing the same job. Free advice: if you want to protect your field, the very least you can do is foster an appreciation of it in future physicians.

Alright, alright...there is a kernel of truth to this. For instance, while I was fairly interested in OB before I started that rotation, it only took a week of being treated like absolute garbage by the residents before my interest...evaporated. I know the SDN conventional wisdom on this subject is that you often can't judge a specialty by the rotation experience you had, but many classmates of mine have done exactly this and have abandoned specialties they were previously interested in because of horrible rotation experiences. So I do believe that it generally behooves residents to treat their medical students with decency.

That said, my anesthesiology rotation was completely awesome and I've never encountered an anesthesiologist I haven't gotten along with, so what I'm saying here probably doesn't really apply to gas.

Originally Posted by RxBoy

To MS.. I actually love teaching however I have 3 rules...

1) Never be in the way
2) Don't act like a know it all
3) Talk quietly

I can't stress #3 enough. Nothing drives me more banana's when a rotator says something like "Hey why is the BP 80/40?" at the top of their voice. This usually leads me to escort them out the OR.

If you want to get good teaching... Introduce yourself followed by "do you mind if I stand and watch?.. If at ANY time you need me to move just let me know or push me aside". Then if you want to ask questions, ask QUIETLY. If you're being taught, just shut up and listen.

Yeah, #3 is clutch... Perioperative "Van Orton's Syndrome" is a pandemic at times. It's like, "STFU!!!" There are also attendings that can't control the volume or tone of their voice as well...

Originally Posted by dozitgetchahi

Alright, alright...there is a kernel of truth to this. For instance, while I was fairly interested in OB before I started that rotation, it only took a week of being treated like absolute garbage by the residents before my interest...evaporated. I know the SDN conventional wisdom on this subject is that you often can't judge a specialty by the rotation experience you had, but many classmates of mine have done exactly this and have abandoned specialties they were previously interested in because of horrible rotation experiences. So I do believe that it generally behooves residents to treat their medical students with decency.

That said, my anesthesiology rotation was completely awesome and I've never encountered an anesthesiologist I haven't gotten along with, so what I'm saying here probably doesn't really apply to gas.

And to clarify, I'm on my surgery rotation now... not on an anesthesia rotation.

Originally Posted by yappy

Would it ever impress one of you attendings if during a complication or emergency a medical student took the initiative and "took charge" so to speak? Like saw low bp and anticipated a pressor that needed to be given so they drew it up and made the suggestion to give it?

This makes me think of the time the resident could not visualize the cords on the first laryngoscopy on a well preoxygenated ASA I patient. I told him to grab a different blade and take a second look. The well-meaning (I think) circulating nurse grabbed the mask and circuit and placed it on the patient and said "First you need to breathe for the patient," despite the fact that the patients sats were 100% and it had only been about 40 seconds. I firmly set aside the mask and told her the patient was fine. The resident intubated the patient and the sats never dropped below 100%. She was instantly one of my least favorite circulating nurses.
One of my biggest pet peeves is the student who strolls into the room while the patient is still awake and says in quite a loud voice, "Hey, I'm a med student. Can I intubate this patient.?" In that situation, it is always no. This is a perfect example of what some have referred to as self awareness. Some get it, some don't.
All that being said, I really enjoy working with students and try my best to engage them in discussion so that they will have a good experience and a positive impression of our specialty, even though they may choose another specialty. It is a good thing to be a good ambassador for your specialty.

Originally Posted by Idiopathic

"how dare you want to actually experience something, after 6 years of being in classes...begone!!!"

C'mon...Urge did say "please."

Originally Posted by diagonal

They're called CRNAs. And what the OP failed to realize in his storm of "I'm senior to you, so I'll start throwing out stupid rules of interaction," is that he's only further alienating students interested in the field. Students with poor experiences leads to less interest in the field which leads to apathy which leads to more CRNAs which leads to ****tier careers for those who go into Anesthesiology. Joke's on the OP, but since he's now an attending and feels his new prerogative is to play hardass with medical students, he doesn't even realize it.

I don't think the OP was alienating students interested in the field, I think he was "educating students" on surgery rotations who don't understand the culture in the OR.

So it wasn't presented in a bunnies and daisies format; it was still useful. As a surgeon/future surgeon, I certainly hope that you're OK with information presented in that fashion.

Overall, anesthesiologists are much more interested/capable in teaching than surgeons; it was part of what attracted me to the field.

Originally Posted by urge

Seriously.

I get it you want to watch and learn. That's fine. If you are shadowing the surgeons, stick to the surgeons. I don't want to see your rear on my face while I'm sitting on my stool. They didn't let you scrub in? Take a hint. Perhaps you shouldn't be there. Maybe the case is too complex, maybe they are ignoring you. Not my problem. You want to learn anesthesia? Do an anesthesia rotation. We will set you up in cases where you can learn and actually do something.

I don't mind an occasional question or two, but you might want to introduce yourself first before asking me stuff. Don't expect me to be wikipedia in the OR because you did not bother to read anything before coming in. If you don't know anything about anything better stay shut.

If you see a really sick patient who might not survive long, it is not a good time to be asking anything. If you are told to step away do so, before I tell you to step the f away. I dont want to be colliding with your ass while I'm busy. If you take a peak into the field and don't see anything, step away, there its nothing to see.

Echo is not a novelty toy. Don't ask me to show you anatomy you do not recognize. What Is the point of asking to see the aortic valve if you are going to ask me "is that the aortic valve" after I have already shown it to you.

Lastly, don't bring any stepping stool and creep into the anesthesia field without my permission.

You are not impressing anyone by being in the way for 8u hrs in a row. We are so glad when you leave.

IM BACK BABY>>>


CRNAS treat medical students like this.

with me, medical students can sit and get in my way any time

OP, you are a DOOSH!!

IM BACK BABY

Treat others like you wanna be treated.!!

Originally Posted by darby11

IM BACK BABY>>>


CRNAS treat medical students like this.

with me, medical students can sit and get in my way any time

OP, you are a DOOSH!!

IM BACK BABY

Treat others like you wanna be treated.!!

Welcome back! :screwy:

Originally Posted by SitraAchra

so I said "please introduce yourself next time since this is anesthesia's work space. but go ahead."
.

YOu are as DOOSHEE as the original poster!!!