Matched into Advanced Neurology but not Preliminary

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So the nightmare has come true:

I have matched into an advanced neurology program without a prelim year. I searched old posts but just needed some more recent advice:

1. What should I do next? Ive already talked to my dean, talked to the program director at my advanced program, tried convincing general surgery to let me do 6 months of IM + 2 months ER...I feel like I've tried everything. I'm even trying to convince family medicine residencies to let me just do 6 months of IM +1 of Peds + 1 of ER and only sign a one year contract. Nothing is working.

2. I feel as though the only thing I can do is somehow find out if someone who matched into a TY year or prelim med year cannot make it and to sign up for it. Is the best way just through residentswap? Does this happen often?

3. Also, how long do I have until I have to forfeit this position?

4. Anybody have any stories to share of their own experiences with this horror or other peoples experiences? Any kinds of stories would help as I feel like I'm all alone in this. I can't believe all the prelim medicine programs filled up after the SOAP. I thought I would ahve a better chance.

Hey, I matched advanced but not preliminary, too! I feel your pain.

Originally Posted by Chocolateagar04

So the nightmare has come true:

I have matched into an advanced neurology program without a prelim year. I searched old posts but just needed some more recent advice:

1. What should I do next? Ive already talked to my dean, talked to the program director at my advanced program, tried convincing general surgery to let me do 6 months of IM + 2 months ER...I feel like I've tried everything. I'm even trying to convince family medicine residencies to let me just do 6 months of IM +1 of Peds + 1 of ER and only sign a one year contract. Nothing is working.

2. I feel as though the only thing I can do is somehow find out if someone who matched into a TY year or prelim med year cannot make it and to sign up for it. Is the best way just through residentswap? Does this happen often?

3. Also, how long do I have until I have to forfeit this position?

4. Anybody have any stories to share of their own experiences with this horror or other peoples experiences? Any kinds of stories would help as I feel like I'm all alone in this. I can't believe all the prelim medicine programs filled up after the SOAP. I thought I would ahve a better chance.

Yeah what a disaster. I'm shocked that everything filled. Maybe this year was just way more difficult to match post match with the SOAP.

Well I think I'm going to have to forfeit this position I have and do a research year and then reapply. Any ideas of where I can get some good quality experience? NIH or anything?

are you US or FMG?

Bump. Same issue. I am a US grad.

There has been a trend for several years now for there to be less and less preliminary/transitional years available after the match. This has happened to good students in the past, and can be survivable.

First, don't panic. Now that SOAP is over, make certain that, if you are a current medical student, that the dean of your COM is looking for you. Also make certain that the advanced program you matched into is aware and looking for you as well. However, do not count on these. Start searching the internet for programs and making inqueries. Let programs know you are instantly available to talk at any time.

You and the advanced program you are in have a contract - check out in the NRMP website the agreements. They don't so much list a time as require you or the program to apply to the NRMP for a waiver to break that agreement. This is done especially when it is known that you will be unable to make the starting requirements for your year (ie you didn't get a PGY1 year in time to be able to start your advanced program). Typically, advanced programs expect you to have secured a PGY1 year by July 1, or they will seek to terminate the agreement. This places the program in a bind as now they have to find someone to fill that spot, so they won't do this lightly, and they will try to help you find a spot.

Right now it probably looks blackest if you don't have a PGY1 in hand, but things are going to continue to evolve over the next few months. There will be positions that unexpectedly open. You just have to network, keep looking, and keep your fingers crossed. Most of you will in fact find some accomodation before July 1.

Good luck!

I agree with ProgramDirector.

I was in the same situation 3 years ago and it was a nightmare. But, I ended up finding an open prelim spot in the end of May and am currently a PGY-3 resident. So did at least two other people I know who were in the same situation with me.

The key thing to do is to start by emailing and calling internal medicine programs TODAY. Just start with a list of programs from FREIDA and start cold calling them, especially community hospitals that sponsor visas (commonest reason why openings come up is if visas don't work out). You should also draft an email with some basic info about yourself and attach your CV and send it to program directors. If there are programs in your city that you can personally visit, drop by and see the program coordinator and leave your application packet with them (this worked for me).

As far as your advanced program is concerned, if possible schedule a personal meeting with the program director and discuss all the logistics with them. It helps a lot if the PD for your advanced program is willing to write a letter of recommendation or support for you in case you find a spot on your own. Officially they are bound to you till June 30th, this is what I was told by my PD. I found my spot in the last week of May. So make sure they are willing to wait for you at least until the beginning of June before they ask for a waiver

Be aware that since the match just happened, there will be no open spots and this can be very discouraging. I cannot stress the importance of being proactive and patient. You have to think of this as your job and do it everyday, no matter how frustrated you may feel. Spots usually open up between mid-May and end of June, so just keep an eye and I'm sure something will come up.

Thank you so much, I've been so depressed thinking about what happened. And you're right there are absolutely NO open positions, what a night mare.

Anyways, I'll keep trying and be patient.

I have a question though. Lets say if a spot opens up how would I even know about it? Do I just have to keep calling the places over and over everyday?

Thank You

Originally Posted by Chocolateagar04

Thank you so much, I've been so depressed thinking about what happened. And you're right there are absolutely NO open positions, what a night mare.

Anyways, I'll keep trying and be patient.

I have a question though. Lets say if a spot opens up how would I even know about it? Do I just have to keep calling the places over and over everyday?

Thank You

Talk to your Dean's office. I know that my school keeps a couple of spots open for our own just in case of situations like this.

Has anyone ever done an AOA traditional year and had I approved by the board by adding a month of medicine or something like that? I've heard of stories where that has been done but he ABPN and ACG
E have no idea what I'm talking about

Reply to the last post:

If someone do a DO Internship year, some programs might allow them to do neurology residency. But they cannot sit for ABPN board.

Originally Posted by RAD345

Reply to the last post:

If someone do a DO Internship year, some programs might allow them to do neurology residency. But they cannot sit for ABPN board.

Why would the internship year matter to the ABPN? I thought the req's were to:

#1: earn a medical license (which for DO's can come from either ACGME or "AOA" PGY-1)

#2: complete a 3 year ACGME accredited neurology residency program

#3: successfully complete the boards

No, the ABPN actually has quite specific requirements for the PGY1 year - it must be in an ACGME accredited program with at least six months of internal medicine (under an IM attending), plus two additional months of either more internal medicine, emergency medicine, and/or pediatrics. The rest of the four months still need to be done but they can be in anything so long as no more than two months of it is in neurology.

Is a program allowed to go over their cap to accommodate students. Basically can a transitional year program contact an ACGME and ask to go one over their cap to accommodate me?

Hi there,
So I am not alone.I got matched to an advanced neurology program but not to a prelim. year.I have made every endeavor to find one spot but unfortunately....all are fulllll.
I feel we were victims of the SOAP ,as I came to know there was no way to let the programs know that we have a secured advanced position,correct me if I am wrong.It is really agonizing....
Good Luck

Originally Posted by ProgramDirector

No, the ABPN actually has quite specific requirements for the PGY1 year - it must be in an ACGME accredited program with at least six months of internal medicine (under an IM attending), plus two additional months of either more internal medicine, emergency medicine, and/or pediatrics. The rest of the four months still need to be done but they can be in anything so long as no more than two months of it is in neurology.

Thanks! That makes sense now.

Hello everyone,

This "sticky" was really interesting to me because I matched into ob/gyn but am seriously considering making the change to neurology. I guess it is going to be next to IMPOSSIBLE to find a prelim position right now that will count for neurology. But if somehow I COULD find a prelim position, would I have to participate in the official match for a neurology PGY2 position? Or do the PGY2 positions always begin the following year after the match? In other words, if I somehow were able to switch to a prelim position during my first year of residency, and I went into the 2013 match, would I only be able to apply for neurology PGY2 positions starting in 2014?

Is there any chance of getting into a neurology PGY2 position without going into the official match?

Thanks for any and all help. And good luck with finding prelims everyone!

Originally Posted by NeuroNerd983

Hello everyone,

This "sticky" was really interesting to me because I matched into ob/gyn but am seriously considering making the change to neurology. I guess it is going to be next to IMPOSSIBLE to find a prelim position right now that will count for neurology. But if somehow I COULD find a prelim position, would I have to participate in the official match for a neurology PGY2 position? Or do the PGY2 positions always begin the following year after the match? In other words, if I somehow were able to switch to a prelim position during my first year of residency, and I went into the 2013 match, would I only be able to apply for neurology PGY2 positions starting in 2014?

Is there any chance of getting into a neurology PGY2 position without going into the official match?

Thanks for any and all help. And good luck with finding prelims everyone!

I thought you got some good advice when you posted your similar post in the other thread.

Originally Posted by NeuroNerd983

Question for residents in neurology or, even better, program director in neurology:

I just matched to an ob/gyn program. I have an extensive background in neuroscience...before med school, worked at a lab doing research for treating brainstem tumors in children, then worked doing neuropsychiatric testing for a study involving AIDS and dementia, then worked at MD Anderson in their neuro-oncology department doing social science research with glioblastoma patients...oh and also I have a master's in neuroscience from Columbia. I entered med school kind of in denial that I liked neuro so much, thinking I would probably just see what happened during my 3rd year rotations. To make the story shorter, I did ob/gyn for my last rotation of 3rd year and loved it (we don't do a neuro rotation in 3rd year). I got on the ob/gyn train and never looked back...until these last few weeks when I've been in my neuro rotation. AND I LOVE THE NEURO ROTATION! (Not surprisingly I guess)

So my question is...what can I do with one year of ob/gyn? Would that have any chance of counting for a prelim for neurology? Also, is there any way (do you think) of me getting a prelim position and not even doing an entire year of ob/gyn? And also...is the best shot I have to maybe try to get into the neurology program at the same place I matched for ob/gyn? (Of course, that is if I decide to make this huge change). Would it be possible to try for another position in a different program but in the same area??

I know that's a LOT of questions - SO SORRY. Feel free to PM me, anybody out there who may be able to help.

Thanks so much

-Neuronerd983

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/show...01&postcount=8

I just want to say that i am in the same situation.
I had contacted every single program in the country and not a positive result.
This really can affect any one emotionally.
It is very good i found a place where we can get some moral support to talk about this.
PM all you want for any comment or question. i can not asure that i have answers but at least you will find who to talk to. Thanks for posting this.
I got the director of the program i matched involved, he is very good helping me to email people.
As of today i am still in the look.
Thanks

Hi... I am facing a similar situation too. Matched to advanced neurology but not for a prelim. I contacted many programs and the reply was negative. I am losing hope and don't know what to do next If any of you succeed in getting a prelim please post here.

Hey

So I have an interesting predicament.

I found a hospital which has a DO traditional year AS WELL as a ACGME transitional year. Of note the TRaditional year is NOT dual accredited even though the traditional and transitional years are nearly identical.

The DO traditional year has offered me a spot and I am tempted to take it because I don't want to be left empty handed if I keep waiting around for a transitional year in he ACGME world or a prelim med.
Furthermore be ACGME transitional year at the same site has said hey would try to ask for a temporary increase in seats for their TY year but they have no idea how long it would take and could take as long as JULY as they have a site visit coming up.

If they do get approved for the temporary extra seat they would be willin to switch me over to the ACGME transitional year so that it fulfills the requirements of the ABPN.

I have by Friday to sign the contract. It's good because it will guarantee I do something next year and it could potentially translate into an ACGME approved year pending the ACGME response to the program.

However if something opens up else where

However if something else opens up in the ACGME world elsewhere I wouldn't be allowed to apply for it because I'm already in contract.

Any suggestions as to what I should do? Or should I just play it safe and sign with them?

I would just like to let people who read this forum know that I found a position! I am so happy and can't wait to finally begin my training leading to a career as a neurologist.

This forum has been so helpful during medical school and the residency process. To those who still haven't found a position all I can say is that the positions are usually not listed and you have to just keep calling/e-mailing and doing whatever you gotta do everyday. It was such a painful experience but glad its over.

PM me if you need any advice.

anyone still looking at this page?im in the same situation...its depressing

I don't want to be a jerk here, I really feel for your situation(s), but I'm posting as a warning for future applicants.

1) Time and time again, medical schools and prior applicants for neurology say neurology is not very competitive, you'll probably match *somewhere*, but prelims can be tricky and somewhat random. And often people will apply to MANY neuro spots but only a few prelims. Why do people ignore this advice??? Your neuro spot depends on it! If you're not sure of your competitiveness, apply to as many prelims as possible!!

2) People are talking as though the new SOAP process screwed them somehow. In fact, the SOAP makes everything more fair. Programs have a better shot at seeing many applicants, and the better applicants have a better shot at getting one of the open spots. The old scramble system was a crapshoot, programs would just snatch up any decent applicant for fear of not getting anyone or getting someone worse. And applicants would take the first offer they got, even if they could have done better. SOAP didn't screw you; you either didn't use it wisely or you're simply not as desirable as other unmatched candidates. Sorry, but it's a better, more fair system.

3) Questions like, "how will I know if positions open up?" suggest you don't really have a good grasp of how normal job searching works in the outside world. The formalized job-finding process known as the match is over; in the real world you need to make yourself as available as possible, get your info out everywhere, then keep yourself on their radar. Cold call and email every single prelim and transitional year program, speak to the director if possible. When a spot somewhere opens up, the program director immediately thinks, "I need to fill this spot. There was this guy who contacted me, sent me his CV, seems like a decent guy." They have to fill the spot, they WILL be calling SOMEONE; make sure it is you.

Again, sorry to be a hard ass here, but I'm doing it so that when some MS4 is reading this next year they will decide to apply to 10 prelim programs rather than 4.

Originally Posted by Chocolateagar04

To those who still haven't found a position all I can say is that the positions are usually not listed and you have to just keep calling/e-mailing and doing whatever you gotta do everyday.

Exactly...