SMP or MSc

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3.3 cGPA, 3.78 third year (freed up a few ECs), 4.0 summer, fourth year in progress. Honours Bachelor of Science at a top 20 university. 2 majors and 1 minor.
Executive of several clubs. One of the 2-3 students from my university to be recruited as an editor and peer-reviewer at a prestigious international undergraduate journal featured in Nature and Science, among others. Completed a rigorous 4-month-long editorial training program directed by renowned scientists from Harvard University, MIT, Johns Hopkins, among others. Sat on several University councils. Literally changed and improved the method of communication between the university administration and students (by launching a video project).
Interested in biomedical research, healthcare policy and entrepreneurship (to provide for 3rd world countries).
American PR (Ohio) and Canadian citizen
MCAT: Will receive score on October 9th. Expect 28-30.

If I do not become accepted into an MD this cycle, I am considering pursuing a Master of Science in medical sciences or a Master of Applied Science (MASc) in biomedical engineering on prosthetics and molecular biology at my university.
- I am actually very interested in research so I would enjoy this, so is an SMP a better plan for me compared with a normal Masters?
- Would I still receive a boost for the MD/PhD program with a regular Masters degree?
- Is it a good plan that if I do not get accepted into an MD even through my Masters, then I plan to continue it to a PhD then apply for the MD (MD/PhD result)?

Thank you.

Originally Posted by AshPreMed

3.3 cGPA, 3.78 third year, 4.0 summer, fourth year in progress. Honours Bachelor of Science at a top 20 university. 2 majors and 1 minor.
Executive at many clubs, editor and peer-reviewer at a prestigious international undergraduate journal featured in Nature and Science, among others. Sat on several University councils. Literally changed and improved the method of communication between the university administration and students (by launching a video project).
Interested in biomedical research, healthcare policy and entrepreneurship (to provide for 3rd world countries).
American PR and Canadian citizen
MCAT: Will receive score on October 9th. Expect 28-30.

If I do not become accepted into an MD this cycle, I am thinking of pursuing an MSc in medical sciences or an MASc in biomedical engineering on prosthetics at my university. I am actually very interested in research so I would enjoy this, but I am indecisive on whether an SMP would be a better plan for me compared with a normal Masters.
- Would I still receive a boost for the MD/PhD program with a regular Masters degree?
- If I do not get accepted into an MD even through my Masters, then I plan to continue it to a PhD then apply for the MD (MD/PhD result).

Thank you.

Try doing what I'm doing:

apply to medical schools and SMPs during the Spring of your senior year.

That way, if you don't get into med school, you have the SMP.

If you do end up getting into a medical school, you'll have a glide year with which you can do the SMP.

What state are you in?

Yes, score is released on October 9.
I'm a PR at Ohio.

Could you please answer my 3 questions above? Thanks.

3.3 cGPA, 3.78 third year, 4.0 summer, fourth year in progress. Honours Bachelor of Science at a top 20 university. 2 majors and 1 minor.
Executive at many clubs, editor and peer-reviewer at a prestigious international undergraduate journal featured in Nature and Science, among others. At this journal, I completed a rigorous 4-month editorial training program directed by renowned scientists from Harvard, MIT, Johns Hopkins, among others. Sat on several University councils. Literally changed and improved the method of communication between the university administration and students (by launching a video project).
Interested in biomedical research, healthcare policy and entrepreneurship (to provide for the underserved, such as 3rd world countries).
American PR (Ohio) and Canadian citizen
MCAT: Will receive score on October 9th. Expect 28-30.

If I do not become accepted into an MD this cycle, I am considering pursuing a Masters of Science in medical sciences or a Masters of Applied Science (M.A.Sc.) in biomedical engineering on prosthetics at my university. After my Masters, I will reapply for an MD/PhD.

- I am actually very interested in research so I would enjoy this, so is an SMP a better plan for me compared with a normal Masters?
- Would I still receive a boost for the MD/PhD program with a regular Masters degree?
- Is it a good plan that if I do not get accepted into an MD even through my Masters, then I plan to continue it to a PhD then apply for the MD (MD/PhD result)?

Thank you.

Originally Posted by AshPreMed

Yes, score is revealed on October 9.
I'm a PR at Ohio.

Could you please answer my 3 questions above? Thanks.

I only answered your question in reference to what I'm doing, myself.

You could pursue a MSc, but that's at least 2 years.

I looked into Masters programs in chem/biochem at the Univeristy of California LA and San Diego, and they weren't too appealing to me because they take at least 2 years, and you're doing things that aren't clinically related.

Most of the time, people in those masters programs want to teach or go on to get PhDs.

Me, for instance, I considered a PhD in Chemistry, and wanted to do a masters beforehand because I don't have a lot of research experience; in other words, to get into a good PhD program in Chemistry at a top school, I'd need a masters.

I'd rather not answer your questions directly, since I don't have experience with what you're asking. But, you can see for yourself what I went through dealing with what I did, and get some experience via conduction.

I could volunteer at a hospital during my MSc, right? Also, for an MD/PhD applicant research experience is a must, so maybe the MSc is better? I just think the SMP is useless other than being a booster for MD school (which I don't know how much it boosts compared to a normal MSc anyway)...

Originally Posted by AshPreMed

I could volunteer at a hospital during my MSc, right? Also, for an MD/PhD applicant research experience is a must, so maybe the MSc is better? I just think the SMP is useless other than being a booster for MD school (which I don't know how much it boosts compared to a normal MSc anyway)...

Sure, you could volunteer during your MSc. It's not really worth it if you've done it before, IMO.

I've volunteered a lot, and it's doing boring stuff that doesn't get you any points with admissions, honestly.

You definitely need research experience for an MD/PhD.

I also looked into the utility of an SMP, and didn't really find much you can do with it.

I did, however, go and talk to a school (in person) about their new SMP that combines biotech industry preparation into their 1st year curriculum, and you then have the option of returning for the 2nd year to complete a masters in a biotech area (they have 4 or so areas). This program has something like a 90% match rate to big biotech companies like Genentech, Amgen, etc.

I looked into this program because, frankly, what good is an SMP if you don't go to medical school?

Since I am going to medical school, this program might not be strictly for me, but I'll still be applying. It's at the Keck Graduate Institute, part of the Claremont Colleges.

Check it out, here:
http://www.kgi.edu/academic-programs...%28ppc%29.html

Claremont is nice, by the way.

SMP is really for GPA "repair" purposes.

If you really are interested in research, I would go for a research oriented masters instead.

I see. Feel free to comment, everyone.

Originally Posted by Nymphicus

SMP is really for GPA "repair" purposes.

If you really are interested in research, I would go for a research oriented masters instead.

I agree. There is no reason to do an SMP with your stats. From my understanding, SMP's are for individuals with lower GPA's that would like to demonstrate to adcoms that they can hang in medical school with other students. Furthermore, it seems that you love research and a masters would be right up your alley. You are just delaying medical school to pursue genuine interests that will be incorporated into your career in the future.

Wait... now 3.3 cum is too high for an SMP?? When did that happen?

If I finish my fourth year with a 3.7+, my cGPA should be >3.4-3.5

Originally Posted by AshPreMed

If I finish my fourth year with a 3.7+, my cGPA should be >3.4-3.5

That's about the range of most people entering the top SMPs.

Even 4.0 out of the masters won't get you looked at for MD/PhD at any school if you are expecting a 28-30 on the MCAT. Masters GPA doesn't matter at all because grades are often inflated. They are considered as an EC basically. Say you get a 30 on MCAT. It's a gamble for even low-tier MD programs give your below average GPA. You would get into most DO schools. But MD doesn't look promising unless you can pull at least a 32 on MCAT. It could definitely happen, but I wouldn't be super optimistic if I were you.

Originally Posted by gmcguitar4

Even 4.0 out of the masters won't get you looked at for MD/PhD at any school if you are expecting a 28-30 on the MCAT. Masters GPA doesn't matter at all because grades are often inflated. They are considered as an EC basically. Say you get a 30 on MCAT. It's a gamble for even low-tier MD programs give your below average GPA. You would get into most DO schools. But MD doesn't look promising unless you can pull at least a 32 on MCAT. It could definitely happen, but I wouldn't be super optimistic if I were you.

Bah, there are many other variables to consider, and I think that his stats NOW are pretty promising.

If you had some stars aligned that you didn't mention (for example, if you are a non-trad, minority, strong EC's, difficult course loads with difficult schedules, et cetera), then you may stand a better chance then you are being lead to believe.

My advice? Ask your premed adviser. You are at a top 20 school, you should have an excellent one. You are not going to get unbiased opinions from your peers here. Shoot, most people in these parts think that you don't have a shot in hell without a 4.0 cGPA and a presidential citation from the CDC, lol.

Thanks. However, unfortunately, my university does not have a Premed advisor.

I plan on repeating my MCAT (perhaps studying for it during my Masters) to obtain >35 if the current one is not high enough. I'm Caucasian.

Two threads merged together and moved to "What are my chances"

You can do research without enrolling in a university and paying tuition. I volunteered at a hospital and it turned into a paying gig and did tons of research with a pub and presentations. That $hit was free. Also had plenty of time to study for the MCAT, be in a band, and take additional undergrad work to help my GPA..mainly for DO schools.

Your main concern should be the MCAT. A 33+ score will do more than masters can do for you at this point. Just some things to consider.

Originally Posted by AshPreMed

3.3 cGPA, 3.78 third year, 4.0 summer, fourth year in progress. Honours Bachelor of Science at a top 20 university. 2 majors and 1 minor.
Executive at many clubs, editor and peer-reviewer at a prestigious international undergraduate journal featured in Nature and Science, among others. Sat on several University councils. Literally changed and improved the method of communication between the university administration and students (by launching a video project).
Interested in biomedical research, healthcare policy and entrepreneurship (to provide for 3rd world countries).
American PR (Ohio) and Canadian citizen
MCAT: Will receive score on October 9th. Expect 28-30.

If I do not become accepted into an MD this cycle, I am thinking of pursuing an MSc in medical sciences or an MASc in biomedical engineering on prosthetics at my university.
- I am actually very interested in research so I would enjoy this, so is an SMP a better plan for me compared with a normal Masters?
- Would I still receive a boost for the MD/PhD program with a regular Masters degree?
- Is it a good plan that if I do not get accepted into an MD even through my Masters, then I plan to continue it to a PhD then apply for the MD (MD/PhD result)?

Thank you.

I hate to be a party-pooper here, but with your stats, it is likely you'll need an SMP just go get into a low-end MD program (basically no chance whosoever for MD/PhD as-is). Most MD/PhD applicants have 3.8+/32+ and the average successful ones are usually even higher (think 3.8/35). A <30 MCAT would be unlikely to get you into an MD program with your 3.4 cGPA. You need to either bring that up, go for an SMP, or apply 50/50 split unranked-MD / DO. Good luck.

Originally Posted by music2doc

I hate to be a party-pooper here, but with your stats, it is likely you'll need an SMP just go get into a low-end MD program (basically no chance whosoever for MD/PhD as-is). Most MD/PhD applicants have 3.8+/32+ and the average successful ones are usually even higher (think 3.8/35). A <30 MCAT would be unlikely to get you into an MD program with your 3.4 cGPA. You need to either bring that up, go for an SMP, or apply 50/50 split unranked-MD / DO. Good luck.

I agree with music2doc, with your current stats an MD/PhD program might be a reach, but I think an instate MD program or a low-end MD program is definitely a possibility. As for your questions, it seems that you are more focused on research rather than clinical work. Is there really a need for the MD for the career your are pursuing? I have done the SMP at Tufts and they do offer a research option for your thesis, but the Masters degree itself is probably not too useful in the real world...from my experience so far. The question about the Masters degree helping you would depend on the number of hard science classes you would have to take to complete your Masters degree. What is your current sGPA? As stated above by a number of posters, the SMP is designed to help people with weak GPAs especially weak sGPAs. I think you need to take a look at what you want to do with your career. I know of some people who have gotten their PhD, did research for a few years then decided to pursue their MD because they wanted the clinical aspect of their research. Also, I'm guessing you just didn't mention it in your initial post, but you probably want to get some clinical experience. Overall, I would take a look at what it is that YOU want to do. If you really enjoy research you might want to pursue the Masters or PhD rather than the SMP. I think that your stats would give you a good shot at a state school or low-end MD program. I'd focus on getting some clinical work and getting your MCAT above a 30. Also, I've found that medical school admissions are often helpful with questions that prospective students have. You might want to call up a few schools in your area and see if admissions would be willing to speak with you since you lack a pre-med advisor. Other than that, kill your last year and destroy that MCAT. Good luck to you!

I'd rather spend 1 more year and get a Masters than spend a year just doing volunteering and MCAT. I can do those 2 with my Masters. Also, at my university, I'm given a stipend as a Masters student, so I don't think I need to spend much money from my own pocket.

Did you consider DO/PhD? You could possibly get into one of those right away...

When I wrote my first reply I had read you post extremely fast and thought that you stats were 3.78/4.0. Looking now, I would say that your GPA is on the low side but the fact that it has such as an upward trend means that adcoms would be willing to take it into account. Like others have said, regardless what path you take, I believe if you want to go to a great school and your are not a URM, you would need to pull off a better MCAT than 28-30. Either way, I still stand by my first recommendation to take a year off and do a masters in applied science. Med school will always be there and if you could show passion about a field that you are interested int and can itnegrate it with medicine, I believe it will only help you and help you stand out.

I agree. I will go for an MSc or MASc. I can't wait! I'll still be applying for MD schools though (especially at my state of residence, Ohio). What do you think my chances are at Ohio MD schools as an Ohio permanent resident?

.

OP, your chances of being accepted to only MD all depend on your MCAT. I think a 32 + would give you a shot considering a 3.3 GPA. Quite frankly as everyone stated your GPA is too low for MD/PhD. Even if you complete a SMP with decent grades you'll stand a chance at MD but MD/PhD would be a reach because SMP and grad grades do NOT change your undergad GPA unless you have amazing ECs with stunning LORs. At this point instead of doing a Masters or SMP play a much more effective route and extend your undergrad time. Spend an extra year in undergrad get your GPA > 3.5, score > 32 and gain some more experience you would have a much better shot at MD or MD/PhD than taking a SMP or Masters because in the end nothing beats undergrad GPA. I would rather spend an extra year of undergrad and raise my GPA opening the possibility of a MD/PhD, fulfilling that dream and paying less money than go into some SMP to barely have a shot at just MD.

But is it a big difference from a 3.4 to a 3.5? I may get a 3.4 cGPA this year, but a 3.5 might take a summer semester, so I would graduate in November instead of June.
Wouldn't the research component of an MSc make me much more competitive for an MD/PhD? This is considering my MCAT score becomes 33+ (due to a lot of studying during my grad school). I could focus my energy on the MCAT during grad school instead of staying busy with normal courses in an extra year (and graduating a year later, embarrassingly).

Originally Posted by AshPreMed

But is it a big difference from a 3.4 to a 3.5? I may get a 3.4 cGPA this year, but a 3.5 might take a summer semester, so I would graduate in November instead of June.
Wouldn't the research component of an MSc make me much more competitive for an MD/PhD? This is considering my MCAT score becomes 33+ (due to a lot of studying during my grad school). I could focus my energy on the MCAT during grad school instead of staying busy with normal courses in an extra year (and graduating a year later, embarrassingly).

There are too many IFs in this thread. How about we take one thing at a time and wait for your MCAT score. I personally think a 3.4 and a 3.5 have a significant difference when there's 6,000 applicants to a MD school but that's just my opinion. Usually for medical school 3.5 tends to be the bare minimum GPA.

But I need to start contacting profs now in order to complete a Masters with them. That is why I must know my best course of action now, Flodhi1.

Bump.