violinist turned psychologist?

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Hi there,

At the age of 32, I have recently discovered that I want to become a psychologist. I'm a professional violinist and teacher, and hold Bachelors and Masters in Performance and Suzuki Pedagogy from good schools. I've taught violin in the Suzuki method (ages 3 and up) for the past 10 years or so, published an article in a professional journal, and recently gave a lecture on nurturing self-esteem in children . Overall, I've been fairly successful in my current field. I love music and always will, but I know it's time for me to go into the next phase of my life.

I really, really want to go for the Psy D. The problem is that my psychology course work is very limited. I'm currently taking a few of the basic classes (Statistics, Abnormal Psych, Social Psych) and will take more, but I'm wondering if that will be enough. I'm prepping for the GRE as we speak. I'll also be undergoing training for a suicide hotline starting in September.

I've been in therapy myself for many years, and as a result am very well acquainted with CBT, etc. Because of my own depression, I've made it my life's mission to find out everything I can about how the brain works. So despite not having a lot of coursework, I do know a fair bit. I have a compelling life story that has brought me to this point, so I'm really looking forward to the personal statement.

Give it to me straight. Do I have a shot at getting into a decent PsyD program? Will they possibly overlook my inexperience, or should I look into Masters programs instead?

FWIW, I live in the DC area and am looking at GW and Argosy, but also considering other programs such as U of Hartford (I did my undergrad there)

Thanks!

You might want to post this in the WAMC (What Are My Chances) thread too - you may get more feedback there.

I just read this by psycreality in another thread and thought it might apply:

Also, PsyD programs tend to accept students who are switching careers. They have a much harder time getting into PhD programs with their non-psyc degrees and lack of research experience. However, these people add to our field because of their diverse experiences. They may not have the same qualifications, but does that mean they are less competent?

It sounds like you're doing a lot of the right things in preparing to apply. Best of luck!

Thank you!

.

Originally Posted by MusicalMind

I've been in therapy myself for many years, and as a result am very well acquainted with CBT, etc. Because of my own depression, I've made it my life's mission to find out everything I can about how the brain works. So despite not having a lot of coursework, I do know a fair bit. I have a compelling life story that has brought me to this point, so I'm really looking forward to the personal statement.

I suggest to read around here a little more. I'm not sure what exactly you mean when you say life story but you'll find that the ABSOLUTE, VERY LAST THING you should do is to tell your own sob story (aka history of own mental health issues) in a personal statement - unless, of course, you don't want to really get in. Please don't take that the wrong way, my best guess is that the majority of people here on this forum and everywhere else have most likely struggled with personal issues but these don't belong into your professional statement when applying to graduate school.

Give it to me straight. Do I have a shot at getting into a decent PsyD program? Will they possibly overlook my inexperience, or should I look into Masters programs instead?

I don't know terribly much about PsyD programs but to get into a decent program, you'll likely need a year or more of volunteer experience but others may be more qualified to comment on that.

FWIW, I live in the DC area and am looking at GW and Argosy, but also considering other programs such as U of Hartford (I did my undergrad there)

Again, read around and you'll see what others say about schools like Argosy. It is a diploma mill, essentially they'll make you pay them a ton of money so that for the rest of your life you'll struggle to find employment because many don't hire people with degrees from these programs.
I actually know several people who attended U of Hartford's PsyD program. It doesn't come up here very often, but everybody I know was very happy with their education and they all found solid employment.

You have as good a chance as any. Sounds like you are on the right track.

One thing though: You mentioned, "I've made it my life's mission to find out everything I can about how the brain works." If by that you mean you are a lifelong learner, that is fine. It would be good as a clinician to keep up-to-date with research findings. If you expect to be making grand discoveries--well, your program will train you to be a clinician, not a researcher.

As far as mentioning your own struggle with depression, another poster pointed out that it may not be your best interest. That's not to say it will eliminate you automatically. I know a PsyD who wrote about his mental health issues in his personal statement. Then again, he attended Argosy.

Originally Posted by Blizzard1mage

As far as mentioning your own struggle with depression, another poster pointed out that it may not be your best interest. That's not to say it will eliminate you automatically. I know a PsyD who wrote about his mental health issues in his personal statement. Then again, he attended Argosy.

Mu guess is that they didn't read the statement.

I'm curious, generally speaking, how does one go about accounting for the time missed? Won't the admitting committee noticed the big gap where no academically relevant activities were taking place? Dealing with mental or physical illness for many years is going to be a noticeable gap on a resume. Like . Do you call it "private issues" if asked, "health issues", not make reference to it at all originally? All I know is it's a big gap in my resume where I was essentially doing nothing. This is relevant for me too as I'm a non-traditional student. Thanks so much for the help.

Originally Posted by MusicalMind

Hi there,

At the age of 32, I have recently discovered that I want to become a psychologist.

They really need a facepalm smiley. First, congrats on your discovery, but I'm not sure that this makes a lot of sense. I'll explain further below. FWIW, I "discovered" that I "wanted" to be a psychologist at 38. (Well not really, but that's when I started my undergraduate work) I am now 45 and JUST about to finish internship.

I'm a professional violinist and teacher, and hold Bachelors and Masters in Performance and Suzuki Pedagogy from good schools. I've taught violin in the Suzuki method (ages 3 and up) for the past 10 years or so, published an article in a professional journal, and recently gave a lecture on nurturing self-esteem in children . Overall, I've been fairly successful in my current field. I love music and always will, but I know it's time for me to go into the next phase of my life.

Let me see if I got this straight.

1. You have a good background for the work you are doing.
2. You love your work.
3. You are successful

and now you are willing to walk away from all your success, spend a large sum of money, and take the next 6 years training for a new career?

That's a pretty bold step.

I really, really want to go for the Psy D. The problem is that my psychology course work is very limited. I'm currently taking a few of the basic classes (Statistics, Abnormal Psych, Social Psych) and will take more, but I'm wondering if that will be enough. I'm prepping for the GRE as we speak. I'll also be undergoing training for a suicide hotline starting in September.

That's all good prep work. While these things are important, what about the more mundane logistical issues, like spending the greater part of the decade not working and incurring massive amounts of debt?

I've been in therapy myself for many years, and as a result am very well acquainted with CBT, etc. Because of my own depression, I've made it my life's mission to find out everything I can about how the brain works. So despite not having a lot of coursework, I do know a fair bit. I have a compelling life story that has brought me to this point, so I'm really looking forward to the personal statement.

Really, don't. Unless your story is so unique and so compelling to justify it's use in a personal statement, advertising your battles with depression will not work for you. Your experience as a patient/client makes you no more suited for being a psychologist than undergoing open heart surgery makes one a good candidate to become a cardiologist.

I am sure that you know a fair bit, and that's great, but you have to have a measurable way of demonstrating that. This is where the psych GRE can be useful. You will have to demonstrate that you have the core knowledge to be successful at the graduate level.

Give it to me straight. Do I have a shot at getting into a decent PsyD program? Will they possibly overlook my inexperience, or should I look into Masters programs instead?

Yes, you will have a chance at getting into a Psy.D. program if you work towards that goal. They will happily take your money and you will spend the next 4-6 years incurring debt and gaining knowledge/experience.

If I had one question for you, it would be what is your long term plan and goal? In other words, how do you see this investment paying off for yourself?

I wish you the best of luck!

M

Thanks for the feedback. That's good to know- I won't talk about my depression. Part of my life story is that I grew up in an abusive household with a mentally ill father. I certainly wouldn't spend an exorbitant amount of time talking about this in my personal statement, but it did set the stage for me to begin a lifelong query into the emotional needs of children. It's something I've been very focused on in my teaching. Would something like that be a red flag?

Yes, I'm a lifelong learner. As awesome as it would be to be a neuroscientist, I don't see that happening.

and now you are willing to walk away from all your success, spend a large sum of money, and take the next 6 years training for a new career?

M[/QUOTE]

Yup. I've often joked that I'm practicing therapy without a license anyway. The sorts of issues that have come up over the years with the families I work with have gone far beyond music. Domestic abuse, eating disorders, PTSD, autism, ADD, you name it. Also, I don't plan on giving up music forever. My long term dream is to someday have a music school that is integrated into a psychotherapy practice. I truly believe that both disciplines have so much to learn from each other.

Originally Posted by MusicalMind

and now you are willing to walk away from all your success, spend a large sum of money, and take the next 6 years training for a new career?

Yup. I've often joked that I'm practicing therapy without a license anyway. The sorts of issues that have come up over the years with the families I work with have gone far beyond music. Domestic abuse, eating disorders, PTSD, autism, ADD, you name it. Also, I don't plan on giving up music forever. My long term dream is to someday have a music school that is integrated into a psychotherapy practice. I truly believe that both disciplines have so much to learn from each other.

ugh, another "I'm practicing therapy without a license anyway." Don't ever let those words slip past your mouth again. At least not at an interview.

Right, so what you focus on is the devastation you have seen as you worked in your previous career (not your personal life), how that motivated you to realize that for you there was something bigger and more important than music alone. As you discovered this, you realized it could be possible to make a contribution both as a therapist and a musician. You can also talk about how using music as a therapeutic tool is an area of interest. These are great things to use (although still needing some refinement not to sound too altruistic) in a personal statement. Tell programs not only where you want to be (in their program) but where you are going... what is your future and how will you get there.

M

Originally Posted by Markp

ugh, another "I'm practicing therapy without a license anyway." Don't ever let those words slip past your mouth again. At least not at an interview
M

haha, point taken.

Thanks for the feedback, it's really helpful. It's funny, because so many of these programs claim to want to know about your life and background. To some extent, it's kind of a trick question. The irony is that it seems that talking about one's own struggles with depression place a stigma on the entire application. Oh well, c'est la vie...

I can't imagine giving up a professional music career for psychology, tbh.

Yeah, that's the reaction of most people...except for my fellow musicians, who are totally jealous!

Originally Posted by MusicalMind

Hi there,

At the age of 32, I have recently discovered that I want to become a psychologist. I'm a professional violinist and teacher, and hold Bachelors and Masters in Performance and Suzuki Pedagogy from good schools. I've taught violin in the Suzuki method (ages 3 and up) for the past 10 years or so, published an article in a professional journal, and recently gave a lecture on nurturing self-esteem in children . Overall, I've been fairly successful in my current field. I love music and always will, but I know it's time for me to go into the next phase of my life.

I really, really want to go for the Psy D. The problem is that my psychology course work is very limited. I'm currently taking a few of the basic classes (Statistics, Abnormal Psych, Social Psych) and will take more, but I'm wondering if that will be enough. I'm prepping for the GRE as we speak. I'll also be undergoing training for a suicide hotline starting in September.

I've been in therapy myself for many years, and as a result am very well acquainted with CBT, etc. Because of my own depression, I've made it my life's mission to find out everything I can about how the brain works. So despite not having a lot of coursework, I do know a fair bit. I have a compelling life story that has brought me to this point, so I'm really looking forward to the personal statement.

Give it to me straight. Do I have a shot at getting into a decent PsyD program? Will they possibly overlook my inexperience, or should I look into Masters programs instead?

FWIW, I live in the DC area and am looking at GW and Argosy, but also considering other programs such as U of Hartford (I did my undergrad there)

Thanks!

I'm in the same boat! I'm currently taking statistics and psych classes. Illl also start volunteering for a suacide helpline this week.

Originally Posted by MusicalMind

Thanks for the feedback. That's good to know- I won't talk about my depression. Part of my life story is that I grew up in an abusive household with a mentally ill father. I certainly wouldn't spend an exorbitant amount of time talking about this in my personal statement, but it did set the stage for me to begin a lifelong query into the emotional needs of children. It's something I've been very focused on in my teaching. Would something like that be a red flag?

I know that sounds harsh especially coming from people who should be the most understanding of this situation but that is NOT a good reason to become a psychologist

Yes, I'm a lifelong learner. As awesome as it would be to be a neuroscientist, I don't see that happening.

This actually is something I don't understand. You're willing spend close to the next decade making no money and most likely accruing an absorbent amount of debt that you may not be able to pay off during your life time - you may as well work hard enough to become a competitive applicant for a fully funded PhD with a neuroscience focus. Yes, it may take you longer to become a competitive applicant, but you're likely to walk away with very little to no debt and your salary expectations are considerably higher than with a PsyD.

Just a thought... have you considered other related-but-not-psychology fields? Like counseling, or music therapy? I'd think, with your background, music therapy might be something right up your alley.

Also, those programs tend to be master's programs and aren't as time-intensive.

Don't make a decision about grad school until you've taken the prereq undergrad courses and then some. I'd say at least 8 classes + clinical opportunities.

Originally Posted by musicalmind

haha, point taken.

Thanks for the feedback, it's really helpful. It's funny, because so many of these programs claim to want to know about your life and background. To some extent, it's kind of a trick question. The irony is that it seems that talking about one's own struggles with depression place a stigma on the entire application. Oh well, c'est la vie...

yep!

I agree with the idea above about integrating your interests and exploring something like music therapy.

You also really need to ask yourself: Why would a PsyD be better for you than a master's? The PsyD certainly has a place, but it (particularly in light of the time and expense) is not for everyone. You have to do some soul-searching and make sure that you aren't making your decision based on the perceived prestige of being called "doctor". I think a lot of people fall into that. (In all fairness, maybe I did too...)


Dr. E

Originally Posted by MusicalMind

haha, point taken.

Thanks for the feedback, it's really helpful. It's funny, because so many of these programs claim to want to know about your life and background. To some extent, it's kind of a trick question. The irony is that it seems that talking about one's own struggles with depression place a stigma on the entire application. Oh well, c'est la vie...

Yeah, the term "personal statement" can be confusing. However, ultimately, they do want to know about your life and background, but from a professional standpoint. Where do you come from, what are your goals, how do you want to accomplish that, etc. And to prove that you have what it takes, they often want to see more than a healthy dose of altruism, even though that may be your personal driving force.

Originally Posted by Doctor Eliza

I agree with the idea above about integrating your interests and exploring something like music therapy.

You also really need to ask yourself: Why would a PsyD be better for you than a master's? The PsyD certainly has a place, but it (particularly in light of the time and expense) is not for everyone. You have to do some soul-searching and make sure that you aren't making your decision based on the perceived prestige of being called "doctor". I think a lot of people fall into that. (In all fairness, maybe I did too...)


Dr. E

I have a ton of respect for music therapists, but I know that it can often be a thankless job with low pay. I'm looking to branch outside of music for now. Also a very costly degree, but certainly not in the range of 100k plus!

I think I want to go for the doctorate because I want very detailed and thorough training. This is important work. I want to do it well.( And yes, it would be cool to be a "doctor" )

My feeling about Masters v Psy D is that the doctorate is just much more rigorous. I primarily want to work as a therapist, but I also want to teach. I'm wet behind the ears when it comes to research, but I would think I'd want to have that door open to me as well.

I think that what I'll end up doing is applying to Masters and Psy D programs. If I can get into a partially funded Masters (VATech, Maryland), then that may be a better choice than doing Psy D at Argosy...

Originally Posted by MusicalMind

I have a ton of respect for music therapists, but I know that it can often be a thankless job with low pay. I'm looking to branch outside of music for now. Also a very costly degree, but certainly not in the range of 100k plus!

I think I want to go for the doctorate because I want very detailed and thorough training. This is important work. I want to do it well.( And yes, it would be cool to be a "doctor" )

My feeling about Masters v Psy D is that the doctorate is just much more rigorous. I primarily want to work as a therapist, but I also want to teach. I'm wet behind the ears when it comes to research, but I would think I'd want to have that door open to me as well.

I think that what I'll end up doing is applying to Masters and Psy D programs. If I can get into a partially funded Masters (VATech, Maryland), then that may be a better choice than doing Psy D at Argosy...

I would guess that most university-based Master's programs are more rigorous than Argosy. There's really no point at getting a doctoral degree at schools that are basically the laughing stock of the field. It sounds like you really don't know enough about the field and doctoral education to make an informed choice at this point. It might help to get a Master's from a reputable program first and then see how you feel.