ABT: My Pizza Stain

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So according to the last 'fast facts' we recieved, "HPSP,NADDS, FAP and NCP scholarship recipients are members of the IRR (IndividualReady Reserve) and are not eligible towear the National Defense Service Medal per reference SECNAVINST 1650.1H (AwardsManual page 4-16).". Do I get my ribbon back when I start residency? It really was already embarassing enough with just the one ribbon, none at all is pretty awful.

Originally Posted by Perrotfish

So according to the last 'fast facts' we recieved, "HPSP,NADDS, FAP and NCP scholarship recipients are members of the IRR (IndividualReady Reserve) and are not eligible towear the National Defense Service Medal per reference SECNAVINST 1650.1H (AwardsManual page 4-16).". Do I get my ribbon back when I start residency? It really was already embarassing enough with just the one ribbon, none at all is pretty awful.

You should, the time period for the award is still in effect (I believe), per the Global War on Somebody

Originally Posted by Perrotfish

So according to the last 'fast facts' we recieved, "HPSP,NADDS, FAP and NCP scholarship recipients are members of the IRR (IndividualReady Reserve) and are not eligible towear the National Defense Service Medal per reference SECNAVINST 1650.1H (AwardsManual page 4-16).". Do I get my ribbon back when I start residency? It really was already embarassing enough with just the one ribbon, none at all is pretty awful.

Yes, Chief One Ribbon, you will get it back after 1 day of continuous permanent active duty (not on orders purely for training) and after 30 days of active service you will get to wear the Global War on Terror Service Medal/Ribbon.

If you want more chest candy you could always go get your marksmanship ribbons.

Don't worry one deployment and you'll have a nice little collection.



On the iPhone

Originally Posted by Perrotfish

It really was already embarrassing enough with just the one ribbon, none at all is pretty awful.

When I was at VMI 88-92, there was a USMC major that had only 2 ribbons, along with two marksmanship medals. There hadn't been any active war enough in the recent past for him to build up his "fruit salad", both for service and for actually doing something. I think one of his was the Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Award. (During Grenada, there was one Navy Cross issued to a Marine and 7 Silver Stars - 5 Marine, 1 Army, 1 Navy for a SEAL.)

Recall that staff pukes all over don't have any ribbons or medals. Hell, in the UK, even the general officers will have 1/4 of their decorations simply for being in when the Queen celebrated some milestone.

Haha - as I was generating this post, I thought of marksmanship ribbons and medals, and I see that MTgas2b got to that already!

If youve been to OBC, you probably qualify for the army service ribbon. (assuming youre in the army)

The Army Service Ribbon is awarded to members of the Army, Army Reserve, and Army National Guard for successful completion of initial-entry training.


Edit: nvm, it seems that the long secnav...etc portmanteau thing probably means you are in the navy.

If you accept today the reality that the quantity and type of ribbons and medals on a uniform bear approximately zero correlation to the accomplishments or character of the wearer, you'll save yourself some heartburn down the road.

I've seen someone get a Navy Achievement Medal for successfully ordering pizza for a command function, and another for rearranging a filing cabinet without losing very many records. I've seen an incompetent and relentlessly obstructionist fobbit pogue get a Bronze Star for god only knows what (auto-bumped from a Meritorious Service Medal by virtue of being in a combat zone).

Meanwhile, that same Bronze Star pogue did his best to get in the way of Purple Hearts for Marines he didn't think got hurt "bad enough" ... and it took over a year to get a Navy Commendation Medal for one of my Corpsmen who literally pulled a wounded Marine out of a firefight.


I have 4 rows of them at this middling period of my Navy career, and the only two I'm really proud of are the Iraq and Afghanistan campaign ribbons with the EGAs. And the FMF qual pin. I have awards I don't think I really deserve, and genuine accomplishments that went unrecognized. The whole awards process is broken and really annoys me.

Would have to agree with ppg. In med.mil world it seems like those with fewer ribbons are generally the better doctors.

And my proudest are my FMF pin and Afghan campaign with EGA. The way the awards process went on my deployment I was proud not to get a personal award.


On the iPhone

Originally Posted by pgg

I've seen someone get a Navy Achievement Medal for successfully ordering pizza for a command function, and another for rearranging a filing cabinet without losing very many records. I've seen an incompetent and relentlessly obstructionist fobbit pogue get a Bronze Star for god only knows what (auto-bumped from a Meritorious Service Medal by virtue of being in a combat zone)..

I remember this from a couple of months ago. The AF apparently took down the original article after it was picked up by national news outlets and publicly ridiculed, but BLUF a finance NCO got a bronze star for pretty much just doing her job:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...nze-Star-Medal

OP by all means be proud to wear the uniform and carry yourself like an officer etc, but I assure you that the more you buy into the .mil validating you via this kind of recognition the higher your level of disillusionment will be. You will also be astounded by the amount of time/effort spent writing up official documents for awards, promotions, performance reviews etc, particularly when you consider that it makes not the least difference in how much you get paid, how quickly you are promoted, makes your job any easier, or results in significant changes/benefit to the healthcare system in which you operate.

Love the thread title btw.

Originally Posted by MTGas2B

Would have to agree with ppg. In med.mil world it seems like those with fewer ribbons are generally the better doctors.

And my proudest are my FMF pin and Afghan campaign with EGA. The way the awards process went on my deployment I was proud not to get a personal award.


On the iPhone

So if I was in Astan as an IA with the Marines...can I place the ega on my afghan campaign ribbon? I've received mixed answers on this.

Originally Posted by Tic

I remember this from a couple of months ago. The AF apparently took down the original article after it was picked up by national news outlets and publicly ridiculed, but BLUF a finance NCO got a bronze star for pretty much just doing her job:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...nze-Star-Medal.

Different person. Wish this sort of thing was a one-time anomaly.

Originally Posted by rotatores

So if I was in Astan as an IA with the Marines...can I place the ega on my afghan campaign ribbon? I've received mixed answers on this.

I don't know the hard answer. Who did you IA with? I was in a USMC unit as an HSAP. My battalion CO was a Marine Lieutenant Colonel.

What's your page 13 entry say? Mine says Afg campaign with EGA. Did you ask the unit you IA'ed with?




On the iPhone

Originally Posted by pgg

Different person. Wish this sort of thing was a one-time anomaly.

Or the folks in an ESG that slept in their racks while a single rocket went over the ship and landed in a warehouse that now wear a combat action ribbon, while corpsmen attached to Marines that got purple hearts for their wounds didn't get a CAR because the Marines dont call it combat unless you get to shoot back.

Ribbons in the navy can be considered creative writing awards.

The number of ribbons is inversely proportional to the amount of actual work you can expect from an individual.

Originally Posted by i want out

Ribbons in the navy can be considered creative writing awards.

The number of ribbons is inversely proportional to the amount of actual work you can expect from an individual.

same w/ my USAF experience, except the pistol expert marksmanship ribbon.

That is one to be proud of.

Originally Posted by i want out

Or the folks in an ESG that slept in their racks while a single rocket went over the ship and landed in a warehouse that now wear a combat action ribbon,

I've got two of those. They blanket awarded one to practically the entire battalion the first trip because of sustained indirect attacks (lots of rockets over many months, but no casualties from them).

I think having a heart rate that meets the definition of tachycardia ought to be added to the award criteria.

Originally Posted by i want out

while corpsmen attached to Marines that got purple hearts for their wounds didn't get a CAR because the Marines dont call it combat unless you get to shoot back.

That sucks. Sounds like they deserved it. CARs especially aren't just extra ribbons. They're worth enlisted advancement points, and I remember reading that there are even a few states that offer tuition benefits or something to people with CARs.

It's unfortunate and highlights the central flaw to the award process, inconsistency. Our second trip, the criteria was a rough 'doing your job while in the vicinity of enemy ordinance coming in your general direction' ... so the line Corpsmen got it for supporting the Marines in firefights, even if they didn't shoot back, and the BAS Corpsmen and I got it for manning the BAS and receiving casualties a mile or so behind the advancing lines.

It's sad because these days I see a junior guy with a NAM and instead of thinking, wow he's done something remarkable for just being an E4, I wonder how many pizzas he ordered or filing cabinets he reorganized. And the flip side is I'm sure some people see my CARs and think I must've machinegunned a bunch of terrorists.

Originally Posted by pgg

It's unfortunate and highlights the central flaw to the award process, inconsistency. Our second trip, the criteria was a rough 'doing your job while in the vicinity of enemy ordinance coming in your general direction' ... so the line Corpsmen got it for supporting the Marines in firefights, even if they didn't shoot back, and the BAS Corpsmen and I got it for manning the BAS and receiving casualties a mile or so behind the advancing lines.

YES. Especially between services. I once read an Army Commendation Medal citation for a soldier who "bravely" put out a small engine fire (in garrison - not combat...). The bar is much, much higher for USMC (i.e. a company commander's end of tour award if he knocked it out of the park). But inter-unit variability is also high. Not that there is something wrong with doing it one way or the other, but it should a) be consistent, so you have some idea what it meant, and b) actually mean something. Like many above, I've gotten awards I didn't think I deserved and then didn't get awarded for things I actually did.

If I could get on my soapbox - while, for officers, awards matter little other than pride - an appropriately awarded NAM, or even a meritorious mast or certificate of commendation (official pats on the back) really can mean a lot to a young enlisted guy. Used effectively, it can be a great motivational leadership tool. In the end, that's why we're in the service, so please take the time to do it right and recognize your young men/women who do a good job!

Originally Posted by i want out

Or the folks in an ESG that slept in their racks while a single rocket went over the ship and landed in a warehouse that now wear a combat action ribbon, while corpsmen attached to Marines that got purple hearts for their wounds didn't get a CAR because the Marines dont call it combat unless you get to shoot back.

Ribbons in the navy can be considered creative writing awards.

The number of ribbons is inversely proportional to the amount of actual work you can expect from an individual.

Originally Posted by pgg

I've got two of those. They blanket awarded one to practically the entire battalion the first trip because of sustained indirect attacks (lots of rockets over many months, but no casualties from them).

I think having a heart rate that meets the definition of tachycardia ought to be added to the award criteria.

That sucks. Sounds like they deserved it. CARs especially aren't just extra ribbons. They're worth enlisted advancement points, and I remember reading that there are even a few states that offer tuition benefits or something to people with CARs.

It's unfortunate and highlights the central flaw to the award process, inconsistency. Our second trip, the criteria was a rough 'doing your job while in the vicinity of enemy ordinance coming in your general direction' ... so the line Corpsmen got it for supporting the Marines in firefights, even if they didn't shoot back, and the BAS Corpsmen and I got it for manning the BAS and receiving casualties a mile or so behind the advancing lines.

It's sad because these days I see a junior guy with a NAM and instead of thinking, wow he's done something remarkable for just being an E4, I wonder how many pizzas he ordered or filing cabinets he reorganized. And the flip side is I'm sure some people see my CARs and think I must've machinegunned a bunch of terrorists.

I'm going to get the formatting wrong due to my not being a programmer, but it's a far cry from even 70 years ago, such as with GySgt John Basilone. His medal rack looked like this:





8 decorations, all earned in WWII. The Medal of Honor, the Navy Cross, PH, PUC, 3 campaign medals, and the WWII Victory medal. (For those who may recall - actually I'm betting most do, especially those who have been greenside - John Basilone is the only person to have earned the Medal of Honor to later die in combat, as depicted on The Pacific. Other examples of same are ass-kickers like Dan Daly (MOH x2, NC) and Smedley Butler (MOH x2, MC Brevet Medal), and LTG Chesty Puller (NC x5, DSC) and his son-in-law Col Bill Dabney (NC).)

Originally Posted by numberwunn

YES. Especially between services. I once read an Army Commendation Medal citation for a soldier who "bravely" put out a small engine fire (in garrison - not combat...). The bar is much, much higher for USMC (i.e. a company commander's end of tour award if he knocked it out of the park). But inter-unit variability is also high. Not that there is something wrong with doing it one way or the other, but it should a) be consistent, so you have some idea what it meant, and b) actually mean something. Like many above, I've gotten awards I didn't think I deserved and then didn't get awarded for things I actually did.

If I could get on my soapbox - while, for officers, awards matter little other than pride - an appropriately awarded NAM, or even a meritorious mast or certificate of commendation (official pats on the back) really can mean a lot to a young enlisted guy. Used effectively, it can be a great motivational leadership tool. In the end, that's why we're in the service, so please take the time to do it right and recognize your young men/women who do a good job!

Agree that the USMC has a different (but appropriate) standard. If I had spent a year in AFG with the Army vice the Corps, I would have left with a Bronze Star easy. Probably would have gotten a CAR as well.

For all the Battalion Surgeons out there, make sure you take care of your guys. A NAM is worth 2 points towards advancement. Any HM that goes out on routine foot patrols with the infantry should be worthy of a NAM. It is your duty to work with your senior enlisted to get these in for them. You need to remind the Marine hierarchy that a CertCom from an O5/O6 will not be of any benefit to the Navy guy unlike their Marine counterparts.

I'm confused about write up for awards. Who does the writing? If I think I deserve some sort of award do I write myself up, can anyone do it, do I need to ask my superior officer, or do I need to hope that my superior does it of his own free will? If my superior has to do it is it common practice for me to write up my own award and hand it to him to sign off on, or does he really need to do it himself? Also who do I do the write ups for? People say they do it for 'their' corpsmen, does that ever apply in a hospital setting or do you pretty much only have corpsmen under your direct command in a GMO setting? Finally it seems like some medals, like the national service medal and GWOT medal, are automatic. Do I need any paperwork before I'm allowed to wear those? If not, are there any other 'awards' that don't involve any paperwork?

Please don't think I'm hung up on awards or overestimating their importance. I'm just curious and bored.

Personal awards are the only ones you need to have someone either nominate you for or, as you suggest, request someone to nominate you for: NAM, Navy Commendation, MSM, etc. The willingness of a command to write you one seems to vary widely. When I was in, aviation line commands were very stingy, maybe only one junior officer would get one during a deployment. That was the first gulf "war" which as far as the shooting part went was very short. Maybe things are different now.

Originally Posted by Perrotfish

I'm confused about write up for awards. Who does the writing? If I think I deserve some sort of award do I write myself up, can anyone do it, do I need to ask my superior officer, or do I need to hope that my superior does it of his own free will? If my superior has to do it is it common practice for me to write up my own award and hand it to him to sign off on, or does he really need to do it himself? Also who do I do the write ups for? People say they do it for 'their' corpsmen, does that ever apply in a hospital setting or do you pretty much only have corpsmen under your direct command in a GMO setting? Finally it seems like some medals, like the national service medal and GWOT medal, are automatic. Do I need any paperwork before I'm allowed to wear those? If not, are there any other 'awards' that don't involve any paperwork?

Please don't think I'm hung up on awards or overestimating their importance. I'm just curious and bored.

More often than not, you write your own award. Not the right thing, but the real thing. You then submit it up the chain for someone to submit as the originator. Much like fitness reports it is up to you to take care of yourself.

For junior guys (E5 and below) it is really the responsibility of the LPOs and Chiefs to take care of and route it up the chain. I will chop on those and be the originator. For my senior enlisted and junior officers, I will write them denovo.