how competitive is the top tier?

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I'm just going to list 10 programs which I consider to be in the top tier for the purpose of my question. I do not intend this list to be exhaustive, entirely accurate, or without geographic bias:

MGH, BWH, Hopkins, UCSF, Stanford, Michigan, WashU, Duke, Penn, Vanderbilt

Don't bite my head off for the list, it's just an example.

I think most people would agree these programs are very well-respected. Programs like this also tend to have a ton of spots; the aforementioned have over 200 spots combined. There are probably 10 other programs which are similarly large and well-respected, so there are really 400+ places at "top" institutions. When you look at it like that, it appears it is actually not statistically difficult to match at a top place. Am I wrong? Basically, 1/4 of all applicants will end up at "top 20" programs, even though there are well over 100 programs.

I guess it begs the question, what type of stats and experiences would make you a virtual lock for these type of programs provided you don't blow the interview? What qualifications would net you interviews as many/all of these places? Hopefully aProgDirector chimes in

Originally Posted by WashMe

I'm just going to list 10 programs which I consider to be in the top tier for the purpose of my question. I do not intend this list to be exhaustive, entirely accurate, or without geographic bias:

MGH, BWH, Hopkins, UCSF, Stanford, Michigan, WashU, Duke, Penn, Vanderbilt

Don't bite my head off for the list, it's just an example.

I think most people would agree these programs are very well-respected. Programs like this also tend to have a ton of spots; the aforementioned have over 200 spots combined. There are probably 10 other programs which are similarly large and well-respected, so there are really 400+ places at "top" institutions. When you look at it like that, it appears it is actually not statistically difficult to match at a top place. Am I wrong? Basically, 1/4 of all applicants will end up at "top 20" programs, even though there are well over 100 programs.

I guess it begs the question, what type of stats and experiences would make you a virtual lock for these type of programs provided you don't blow the interview? What qualifications would net you interviews as many/all of these places? Hopefully aProgDirector chimes in

No such thing as a virtual lock. There's a certain amount of randomness to the process, unfortunately. Particularly with whether or not you and your interviewer mesh well or not.

Speaking in generalities, you will probably do fairly well if you have a 230+ on Step 1, mostly HP/Honors in your clerkship grades, and have some sort of extracurricular activities and/or research.

One difference I did notice is that program directors/chairs at the more prestigious locales tended to stress wanting their residents to become leaders a lot more. Not just in research and academics, but leadership roles within private practice groups and hospital committees.

Best of luck.

Originally Posted by WholeLottaGame7

No such thing as a virtual lock. There's a certain amount of randomness to the process, unfortunately. Particularly with whether or not you and your interviewer mesh well or not.

Speaking in generalities, you will probably do fairly well if you have a 230+ on Step 1, mostly HP/Honors in your clerkship grades, and have some sort of extracurricular activities and/or research.

One difference I did notice is that program directors/chairs at the more prestigious locales tended to stress wanting their residents to become leaders a lot more. Not just in research and academics, but leadership roles within private practice groups and hospital committees.

Best of luck.

Thanks!

Last year, I applied to 15 programs, all categorical spots. 6 of them were on your list. I received interview offers to 5 of those 6. I respectfully declined interviews to 2/5 after realizing that I really couldn't see myself living at those locations. Of the three remaing "top tier" programs, I ranked one of them dead last. I matched to my first choice (on the list) because of the location, culture, and cost of living.
I agree with the responses thus far. There is no guarantee that any step 1 score will get you an offer. I was rejected by 1 average "state" program and 2 respected programs not on the list. I had very competitive step scores, anesthesia research, and good rec letters/ clerkship evaluations. A large portion is luck in getting the interview. All of the skill is on the interview day. Know your application cold, but half of my interviews were about small talk. I remember spending 30 minutes (entire interview) discussing how college football needs a 16 team playoff. They will know you are smart based on your stats and accomplishments, but many of them want to know if you can have a normal conversation. Don't be a robot. You will find that some programs, although great in reputation, are not great for you.
I remember several program directors telling me to "let them know" if I really wanted to match there. I let my top choice know of my direct intentions and I matched there. I expressed thanks to all Interviewing faculty members at each location, and mentioned that I would be thoroughly excited about matching at that location. Do not tell multiple programs that you ranked them #1- it's poor form. Assume that program directors talk and deal applicants like trading cards, even though this might not be true. But you never know, especially considering two of your programs are Harvard-based.
In conclusion, your paper application gets the interview. Your interview gets the match. Keep location and your long term plans in consideration when making your list. Also, interact with the residents and faculty. If their personality does not align with yours, then you might not want to spend a large portion of your life around them... Good luck and enjoy the hell out of fourth year. You will appreciate the last sentence even more one year from now.

Originally Posted by bagemandgagem

Last year, I applied to 15 programs, all categorical spots. 6 of them were on your list. I received interview offers to 5 of those 6. I respectfully declined interviews to 2/5 after realizing that I really couldn't see myself living at those locations. Of the three remaing "top tier" programs, I ranked one of them dead last. I matched to my first choice (on the list) because of the location, culture, and cost of living.
I agree with the responses thus far. There is no guarantee that any step 1 score will get you an offer. I was rejected by 1 average "state" program and 2 respected programs not on the list. I had very competitive step scores, anesthesia research, and good rec letters/ clerkship evaluations. A large portion is luck in getting the interview. All of the skill is on the interview day. Know your application cold, but half of my interviews were about small talk. I remember spending 30 minutes (entire interview) discussing how college football needs a 16 team playoff. They will know you are smart based on your stats and accomplishments, but many of them want to know if you can have a normal conversation. Don't be a robot. You will find that some programs, although great in reputation, are not great for you.
I remember several program directors telling me to "let them know" if I really wanted to match there. I let my top choice know of my direct intentions and I matched there. I expressed thanks to all Interviewing faculty members at each location, and mentioned that I would be thoroughly excited about matching at that location. Do not tell multiple programs that you ranked them #1- it's poor form. Assume that program directors talk and deal applicants like trading cards, even though this might not be true. But you never know, especially considering two of your programs are Harvard-based.
In conclusion, your paper application gets the interview. Your interview gets the match. Keep location and your long term plans in consideration when making your list. Also, interact with the residents and faculty. If their personality does not align with yours, then you might not want to spend a large portion of your life around them... Good luck and enjoy the hell out of fourth year. You will appreciate the last sentence even more one year from now.

Thanks for the advice I'm applying for only the categorical positions at 30 programs, including most of the places on the list I posted originally. I'm keeping an open mind going into the process, and I'll probably aim for 10-15 interviews (if I get that many offers). On paper I look okay, step 1 >250, top tier school, good LOR's, average clinical grades though. I know some "top" programs may not be the "right" programs for me, but it is important to attend a well-respected program because I will likely have to compete for a fellowship (or 2) afterwards.

Originally Posted by WashMe

I think most people would agree these programs are very well-respected. Programs like this also tend to have a ton of spots; the aforementioned have over 200 spots combined. There are probably 10 other programs which are similarly large and well-respected, so there are really 400+ places at "top" institutions. When you look at it like that, it appears it is actually not statistically difficult to match at a top place. Am I wrong? Basically, 1/4 of all applicants will end up at "top 20" programs, even though there are well over 100 programs.

I guess it begs the question, what type of stats and experiences would make you a virtual lock for these type of programs provided you don't blow the interview? What qualifications would net you interviews as many/all of these places? Hopefully aProgDirector chimes in

Well what you did is you broadend your definition of "top programs". You essentially made 1 out of every 5 anesthesia residencies a top program, which would make it easier than not to match at a "top program" by your definition. Although, 20 (and likely more) can provide great training, in the end I don't think 20 can be considered the best.

Originally Posted by WholeLottaGame7

No such thing as a virtual lock. There's a certain amount of randomness to the process, unfortunately. Particularly with whether or not you and your interviewer mesh well or not.

One difference I did notice is that program directors/chairs at the more prestigious locales tended to stress wanting their residents to become leaders a lot more. Not just in research and academics, but leadership roles within private practice groups and hospital committees.

Originally Posted by bagemandgagem

your paper application gets the interview. Your interview gets the match.

Agree with this. I felt like many programs were looking for applicants that had something more to offer the specialty and applicants that they would enjoy working with.

Originally Posted by gasblaster

Well what you did is you broadend your definition of "top programs". You essentially made 1 out of every 5 anesthesia residencies a top program, which would make it easier than not to match at a "top program" by your definition. Although, 20 (and likely more) can provide great training, in the end I don't think 20 can be considered the best.

Thanks for the comments. In your opinion, what are the "best" (in no particular order) 5-10 programs? Just curious

Originally Posted by WashMe

Thanks for the comments. In your opinion, what are the "best" (in no particular order) 5-10 programs? Just curious

MGH
BWH
UCSF
Stanford
Hopkins

Penn
Duke
Wash U
Columbia
Vandy
Michigan

Second group is probably "easier" to match at because either locations aren't as desirable or, in the case of Columbia, lots of programs in NYC and not everyone wants to do residency in NYC

Originally Posted by DannyB

MGH
BWH
UCSF
Stanford
Hopkins

Penn
Duke
Wash U
Columbia
Vandy
Michigan

Second group is probably "easier" to match at because either locations aren't as desirable or, in the case of Columbia, lots of programs in NYC and not everyone wants to do residency in NYC

Thanks DannyB

I have a question... why does nobody include BID in the top even though it is a huge Harvard-affiliated program? Pretty much every other program that size is a "top" program

Originally Posted by bagemandgagem

Last year, I applied to 15 programs, all categorical spots. 6 of them were on your list. I received interview offers to 5 of those 6. I respectfully declined interviews to 2/5 after realizing that I really couldn't see myself living at those locations. Of the three remaing "top tier" programs, I ranked one of them dead last. I matched to my first choice (on the list) because of the location, culture, and cost of living.
I agree with the responses thus far. There is no guarantee that any step 1 score will get you an offer. I was rejected by 1 average "state" program and 2 respected programs not on the list. I had very competitive step scores, anesthesia research, and good rec letters/ clerkship evaluations. A large portion is luck in getting the interview. All of the skill is on the interview day. Know your application cold, but half of my interviews were about small talk. I remember spending 30 minutes (entire interview) discussing how college football needs a 16 team playoff. They will know you are smart based on your stats and accomplishments, but many of them want to know if you can have a normal conversation. Don't be a robot. You will find that some programs, although great in reputation, are not great for you.
I remember several program directors telling me to "let them know" if I really wanted to match there. I let my top choice know of my direct intentions and I matched there. I expressed thanks to all Interviewing faculty members at each location, and mentioned that I would be thoroughly excited about matching at that location. Do not tell multiple programs that you ranked them #1- it's poor form. Assume that program directors talk and deal applicants like trading cards, even though this might not be true. But you never know, especially considering two of your programs are Harvard-based.
In conclusion, your paper application gets the interview. Your interview gets the match. Keep location and your long term plans in consideration when making your list. Also, interact with the residents and faculty. If their personality does not align with yours, then you might not want to spend a large portion of your life around them... Good luck and enjoy the hell out of fourth year. You will appreciate the last sentence even more one year from now.

I agree with your assessment to a certain extent. However, let me ask this, do those programs who have already sent out interview offers without the Dean's Letter and all of an applicant's LORs really weigh each applicant the same on interview day? I agree with your comments in regards to those programs that wait for all of the application materials to be submitted before handing out interview invitations. I just wanted to get your thoughts on the programs who initially screen applicants based on what I believe to be Step 1.

Originally Posted by WashMe

Thanks DannyB

I have a question... why does nobody include BID in the top even though it is a huge Harvard-affiliated program? Pretty much every other program that size is a "top" program

Because the idea of a "list of top programs" is just banter for discussion boards. No list or method to create such a list, even exists. Every year, this gets discussed and no resolution ever comes from it. There are many good programs, many average programs, and a handful that struggle. Each individual's list of their top programs will differ based on what is important to them. Some programs have great name recognition, but may be very weak in certain areas and great in others. Some small, lesser known programs may be great training programs that are well rounded, but have poor name recognition outside of their geographic location. I will tell you that forums such as this are leveling the playing field a bit as people give reports on the excellent lesser known programs.
Bottom line, find the program that is right for you. Your number one program may be dead last on someone else's list, and that is perfectly fine. So many on here want reassurance that the program they liked is the one everyone else liked as well. It will not always be that simple. Enjoy the process and best of luck. For the record, I have heard many great things about BID. If you like it, you should feel comfortable ranking them very high (no, I am not from there).

Originally Posted by WashMe

Thanks DannyB

I have a question... why does nobody include BID in the top even though it is a huge Harvard-affiliated program? Pretty much every other program that size is a "top" program

Relax. BID has a great reputation. IMHO, all 3 Harvard Programs are solid, top programs but BW is probably the best of the three. That said, you won't have any trouble finding a job or getting a fellowship from any of them.

In the end your program shoud be solid clinically and a good fit for you personally

I think too much is made out of name recognition instead of solid clinical training. I did my Residency at one of those programs on the list and personally know the Residency director.

Programs want good, smart applicants who will easily pass their boards but they also want decent human beings to work with as well.

Top programs have lots of research and lots of fellows, neither of which improves your training. Look at all the good cases they brag about and see if they have residents or fellows in the room.

As fellowship training gets more and more common, residency traing will get worse and worse.

I'm not saying that famous programs don't provide great training. I'm sure they do. I'm just saying the difference is probably less than it once was.

Originally Posted by BLADEMDA

Relax. BID has a great reputation. IMHO, all 3 Harvard Programs are solid, top programs but BW is probably the best of the three. That said, you won't have any trouble finding a job or getting a fellowship from any of them.

In the end your program shoud be solid clinically and a good fit for you personally

Wonder why BWH Chairman's son decided to do his residency at MGH recently...?

Originally Posted by saratoga733

Wonder why BWH Chairman's son decided to do his residency at MGH recently...?

Maybe because it would be weird/conflict of interest to have your dad as the chairman of your residency program??? Looking at the website, he did fellowship and is now an attending at BWH, so I don't know what you can read into that

Originally Posted by saratoga733

Wonder why BWH Chairman's son decided to do his residency at MGH recently...?

Easy answer. If that resident did was the best resident ever, it would be looked at through a lens of nepotism. They did well because they had advantages over the others because their daddy was chair. If they did poorly, but still got moved along, it would be nepotism again. They were terrible, but their daddy covered for them. If they were terrible and had to be let go, it could never be done in an unbiased way and would wreak havoc on the father son relationship that would be life long. In addition, some might see reverse nepotism, where the father felt they needed to be extra tough on the son in order to show everyone that they were not playing favorites.
By going to another well respected program, they preserve their father son relationship during that critical training phase.
Having your father be the chair during residency training appears to me to be a no win situation, even if things go extremely well, you will always have the stigma that your dad made it possible. By going elsewhere, you establish yourself on your own merits and come back with excellent training already well established, so the stigma is gone.
Just my two cents, but I know people who have been in this situation, and they also chose to go elsewhere. I would read nothing else into that decision. Sounds to me like a wise move.

Originally Posted by Gern Blansten

Easy answer. If that resident did was the best resident ever, it would be looked at through a lens of nepotism. They did well because they had advantages over the others because their daddy was chair. If they did poorly, but still got moved along, it would be nepotism again. They were terrible, but their daddy covered for them. If they were terrible and had to be let go, it could never be done in an unbiased way and would wreak havoc on the father son relationship that would be life long. In addition, some might see reverse nepotism, where the father felt they needed to be extra tough on the son in order to show everyone that they were not playing favorites.
By going to another well respected program, they preserve their father son relationship during that critical training phase.
Having your father be the chair during residency training appears to me to be a no win situation, even if things go extremely well, you will always have the stigma that your dad made it possible. By going elsewhere, you establish yourself on your own merits and come back with excellent training already well established, so the stigma is gone.
Just my two cents, but I know people who have been in this situation, and they also chose to go elsewhere. I would read nothing else into that decision. Sounds to me like a wise move.

Agree completely.

Originally Posted by DannyB

MGH
BWH
UCSF
Stanford
Hopkins

Penn
Duke
Wash U
Columbia
Vandy
Michigan

Second group is probably "easier" to match at because either locations aren't as desirable or, in the case of Columbia, lots of programs in NYC and not everyone wants to do residency in NYC

I would agree that this is probably the consensus for the TOP 5 programs in the country. I think the race between MGH and BWH has been close the past few years and the education is probably comparable but I would give the slight edge to MGH based on reputation, history, and it now being the #1 hospital in the nation.

The other "top" programs after the five heavy hitters are probably harder to determine because of all the variables that each individual looks for in a program. You could easily add several more to that list including BID, Cornell, UChicago, UCLA and it would still come down to what fits the applicant best.

Originally Posted by hrmm

I would agree that this is probably the consensus for the TOP 5 programs in the country. I think the race between MGH and BWH has been close the past few years and the education is probably comparable but I would give the slight edge to MGH based on reputation, history, and it now being the #1 hospital in the nation.

The other "top" programs after the five heavy hitters are probably harder to determine because of all the variables that each individual looks for in a program. You could easily add several more to that list including BID, Cornell, UChicago, UCLA and it would still come down to what fits the applicant best.

Oh really. In what way is the training actually better at the top 5 rather than the next 10-20?

Originally Posted by hrmm

I would give the slight edge to MGH based on reputation, history, and it now being the #1 hospital in the nation.

Congratulations MGH!! You did it!!! Number 1 hospital in the nation!!!

This all crap. Basing your residency solely on US News ranking is ridiculous. Any of the top 20-25 programs in the USA would serve you well. Why not see which is the best fit for you?

I still stand behind my choice as BW as the best overall Harvard program. Mass General and BID are both excellent as well. Again, see which program suites your needs.

There are excellent hospitals in every Region of this country.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news...the-honor-roll

Take a look at this list. Many average applicants may be able to match at one of these programs like Pitt or Cleveland Clinic. This means you will get outstanding clinical training and possibly more cases than some super test taker at another top program.

For those of you looking for solid clinical traning with only average Step Scores or grades then look elsewhere outside the mythical top ten. You can still become a superstar attending and get a great job or fellowship.

Originally Posted by Gern Blansten

Congratulations MGH!! You did it!!! Number 1 hospital in the nation!!!

I literally LOL'd, thank you so much for that!

Originally Posted by BLADEMDA

This all crap. Basing your residency solely on US News ranking is ridiculous. Any of the top 20-25 programs in the USA would serve you well. Why not see which is the best fit for you?

I still stand behind my choice as BW as the best overall Harvard program. Mass General and BID are both excellent as well. Again, see which program suites your needs.

There are excellent hospitals in every Region of this country.

No one said to base your residency solely on US News ranking. That's ridiculous, Blade!

Still, Mass General is the best overall Harvard program.

Originally Posted by hrmm

No one said to base your residency solely on US News ranking. That's ridiculous, Blade!

Still, Mass General is the best overall Harvard program.

In my survey of people who trained at 2 or more top 10 programs, there was a ten way tie for which had the best training. 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

UPMC trained residents easily go toe to toe against Harvard guys any day of the week. Same for Mayo or Cleveland Clinic, etc. Beware the name trap, go where you and your family will be happy. I cannot emphasize this enough. Any "name brand" will be gone after your second trauma call. In terms of the match, its all about the interview. My step II 208, Step II 257. Interviewed at all the "top programs."

Originally Posted by DannyB

MGH
BWH
UCSF
Stanford
Hopkins

Penn
Duke
Wash U
Columbia
Vandy
Michigan

Second group is probably "easier" to match at because either locations aren't as desirable or, in the case of Columbia, lots of programs in NYC and not everyone wants to do residency in NYC

This may be true from a match perspective, but I actually felt that hopkins, duke, wash u, and penn were the most complete programs overall. The other programs had relative deficiencies in an area or two. All things considered though, I'm pretty sure you get excellent training at all of them.

Originally Posted by hrmm

Still, Mass General is the best overall Harvard program.

I hear they're second to none.

UCSF, MGH, Stanford, Penn and Duke seem to be the bees knees in terms of the top 5 from what I have picked up. This is more reflective of NIH funding than actual quality of training as it has been stated.

Originally Posted by maxim3L

UCSF, MGH, Stanford, Penn and Duke seem to be the bees knees in terms of the top 5 from what I have picked up. This is more reflective of NIH funding than actual quality of training as it has been stated.

Doesn't WashU rank like #1 or 2 for NIH funding?

How much research do you want to do? Some of these programs are research hard hitters.

My top programs would be somthing of the tune of.... University of Utah, University of Colorado, Arizona (both Mayo and Tucson) and UC San Diego. Make some good connections in residency and practice anesthesia where other people vacation. @ the very least, these good schools will allow you ample opportunites to decompress after pushing a long hard week. Cleveland in the winter is miserable... not so at any of the above programs. I came from a respected PA program... great training... but man.... it woulda been nice to be in the mountains.

I was fortunate in that I did find groomers I could plow down during the winter weekends... but it wasn't the rockies, the desert or the beach.

Most programs will graduate good candidates. Like anything in life... YOU have to put the energy into your training in order for it to be the best it can be.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by WashMe

Doesn't WashU rank like #1 or 2 for NIH funding?

Interviewed there... good place... but wasn't "super impressed" by any means. Residents overworked IMO. But this was many years ago. Great case load.

Don't just go by NIH funding... not the way to pick a residency.

Originally Posted by WashMe

Doesn't WashU rank like #1 or 2 for NIH funding?

Oh.... and ask about regional anesthesia... If I remember correctly, it was lacking back in the day.

Originally Posted by GypsySongman

Top programs have lots of research and lots of fellows, neither of which improves your training. Look at all the good cases they brag about and see if they have residents or fellows in the room.

As fellowship training gets more and more common, residency traing will get worse and worse.

I'm not saying that famous programs don't provide great training. I'm sure they do. I'm just saying the difference is probably less than it once was.

I agree with the above statement but be careful with this approach as well because you want to make sure the residents get their numbers and they do all the cases and are being taught how to analyze and perform an anesthetic on the "good" cases. What kind of cases make up their cardiac numbers (pericardial windows vs CABG+MVR+AVR), vascular cases (endovascular AAA vs open thoracoabdominal aneurysm repair), trauma (ortho trauma vs GSW to neck and chest), peds (T&A vs post fossa craniotomy), etc Try to find a good mix you want to be able to do everything or close to it when you leave

Originally Posted by WashMe

Doesn't WashU rank like #1 or 2 for NIH funding?

UCSF has been #1 in this category for years (I get the emails every so often). I would add my voice to the chorus of people saying these rankings are arbitrary and generally based on nothing more than the poster's whim. There are no rankings of any kinds with regard to comparing one program with another. The best program is the one that has the best record of delivering people like you to whatever it is you want NEXT. Want a cardiac fellowship at Penn? Find the programs that have sent people there. Want a PP gig in Phoneix? Again, find the programs that have sent graduates into such jobs. This, at its core, is the only outcome that matters: does the program have a history of succeeding at getting you the thing that you want?

Originally Posted by cchoukal

UCSF has been #1 in this category for years (I get the emails every so often). I would add my voice to the chorus of people saying these rankings are arbitrary and generally based on nothing more than the poster's whim. There are no rankings of any kinds with regard to comparing one program with another. The best program is the one that has the best record of delivering people like you to whatever it is you want NEXT. Want a cardiac fellowship at Penn? Find the programs that have sent people there. Want a PP gig in Phoneix? Again, find the programs that have sent graduates into such jobs. This, at its core, is the only outcome that matters: does the program have a history of succeeding at getting you the thing that you want?

Great advice. Although UCSF is great residency program there are many others. I suspect most top 20 programs will offer you solid, all around training with ample opportunity for success.

If you only have average STEP scores UCSF, BW, Mass General, Penn, Duke, etc are probably out of reach. But, what about Cleveland Clinic or Pitt? Pitt has a great Residency program in all areas. Ditto for Cleveland Clinic.

You guys are great at researching things so find out what is a realistic match for you. Remember once you get to the interview process it is up to you to close the deal. At the interview you need to sell yourself as a team player, hard worker and amicable human being to your interviewers.

[QUOTE=BLADEMDA;13104843]Great advice. Although UCSF is great residency program there are many others. I suspect most top 20 programs will offer you solid, all around training with ample opportunity for success.

There are many great programs for many different reasons. NIH funding is a measure of research dollars. Many programs offer outstanding training without this benchmark funding.

If you want to learn TEE, Utah is a powerhouse, with many of their residents taking and passing the advanced perioperative echocardiography exam. They also excel at regional as does Virginia Mason and some others. UW is a standout program with tons of clinical experience and well rounded training.

Originally Posted by OffPiste

. Beware the name trap, go where you and your family will be happy. I cannot emphasize this enough. Any "name brand" will be gone after your second trauma call. In terms of the match, its all about the interview. My step II 208, Step II 257. Interviewed at all the "top programs."

Agreed!
Forget the name jargon like Hopkins, Vandy and Mayo - they are all exceptional programs with outstanding training - just don't get hooked on name imagery. Go where you feel you will #1 personal training for you.

In sum, there really is no measuring stick unless you want to go by RRC review cycle and how many years a program has gotten a 5-year review. This tells you that the ACGME has no issues with this program and they are doing everything mandated by this governing body. It is a tough test to pass and only about 30% percent of programs have a consistent 5 year cycle over the past 20 years.

Many great programs to look at and find the one that fits your learning style and mental makeup the best.

Originally Posted by WashMe

I guess it begs the question, what type of stats and experiences would make you a virtual lock for these type of programs provided you don't blow the interview? What qualifications would net you interviews as many/all of these places? Hopefully aProgDirector chimes in

Hi there and congratulations on your decision to go into Anesthesia! It is a very cool field and I am thoroughly loving my residency... as I am sure you will someday.

I figured I would try to answer your question in so far as I can. I am at Johns Hopkins and had interviews at some of the other programs you listed. I picked Hopkins because I am a very non-traditional student and fit in here. The residency program director likes to find people that have interesting and unique backgrounds and this has equated to some fascinating residents. I suspect that many of the other programs on your list are similar.

For Hopkins I can tell you that we have about 5-6 people that are trained in other medical fields every year, people with research backgrounds, people with unique backgrounds (film director, stock brokers, fighter pilots, etc), and then those that are paper pirates that just had really high scores.

I think that some programs really like to know that you are interested in going there and that you will be a good fit. Others may just want high scores. Still others look for residents that "fit in" with the nuances of the setting. I, for example, fit into the Hopkins, Stanford, Brigham kind of resident fold, but didn't so much at MGH or UCSF.

My suggestion is have fun with the process no matter where you interview. Things always have a way of working out for the best in the end. I am sure you'll be a great anesthesiologist if you love it, work hard, and are self motivated regardless of whether you come out of a "top 5" or a "bottom 10." Some of the best professors at Hopkins came from programs not "ranked" as highly. It is always the individual, but the great programs are great for a reason too and they will open doors sometimes.

I am very happy I picked Hopkins, but I think I could have been happy other places too... it is a VERY FUN FIELD - YOU CAN'T GO WRONG!

Best Wishes, J

...

Originally Posted by LovingBaltimore

Hi there and congratulations on your decision to go into Anesthesia! It is a very cool field and I am thoroughly loving my residency... as I am sure you will someday.

I figured I would try to answer your question in so far as I can. I am at Johns Hopkins and had interviews at some of the other programs you listed. I picked Hopkins because I am a very non-traditional student and fit in here. The residency program director likes to find people that have interesting and unique backgrounds and this has equated to some fascinating residents. I suspect that many of the other programs on your list are similar.

For Hopkins I can tell you that we have about 5-6 people that are trained in other medical fields every year, people with research backgrounds, people with unique backgrounds (film director, stock brokers, fighter pilots, etc), and then those that are paper pirates that just had really high scores.

I think that some programs really like to know that you are interested in going there and that you will be a good fit. Others may just want high scores. Still others look for residents that "fit in" with the nuances of the setting. I, for example, fit into the Hopkins, Stanford, Brigham kind of resident fold, but didn't so much at MGH or UCSF.

My suggestion is have fun with the process no matter where you interview. Things always have a way of working out for the best in the end. I am sure you'll be a great anesthesiologist if you love it, work hard, and are self motivated regardless of whether you come out of a "top 5" or a "bottom 10." Some of the best professors at Hopkins came from programs not "ranked" as highly. It is always the individual, but the great programs are great for a reason too and they will open doors sometimes.

I am very happy I picked Hopkins, but I think I could have been happy other places too... it is a VERY FUN FIELD - YOU CAN'T GO WRONG!

Best Wishes, J

Thanks for the advice I actually withdrew my app from all 3 boston programs a couple days after submitting ERAS, because I realized I didn't want to live in boston. I still have apps out to several "top" programs though. I think I'll end up at a mid-range program, for a few reasons:

(1) These tend to be in affordable cities.
(2) I like being the big fish in a small pond.
(3) Although I'm objectively competitive, I'm not getting many good interview offers.

Michigan, Vandy, and Duke, for example, are all offering spots to people with lesser numbers and no clear connection, but not to me.

Originally Posted by WashMe

Thanks for the advice I actually withdrew my app from all 3 boston programs a couple days after submitting ERAS, because I realized I didn't want to live in boston. I still have apps out to several "top" programs though. I think I'll end up at a mid-range program, for a few reasons:

(1) These tend to be in affordable cities.
(2) I like being the big fish in a small pond.
(3) Although I'm objectively competitive, I'm not getting many good interview offers.

Michigan, Vandy, and Duke, for example, are all offering spots to people with lesser numbers and no clear connection, but not to me.

I assume we are talking about U of Michigan? I heard from them today so I was just trying to confirm...

Originally Posted by Infexious

I assume we are talking about U of Michigan? I heard from them today so I was just trying to confirm...

yeah UMich. Actually got an interview from them after I posted this, lol. They knew I wasn't happy