ortho chances

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With a step 1 score of 260, doing 3 away rotations potentially eliminates 3 places from your likely-to-match list. Aways are a double edged sword. It is really easy to do something trivial on an away to make them not consider you. With a score of 260, everyone will consider you on paper.

Originally Posted by skiz knot

With a step 1 score of 260, doing 3 away rotations potentially eliminates 3 places from your likely-to-match list. Aways are a double edged sword. It is really easy to do something trivial on an away to make them not consider you. With a score of 260, everyone will consider you on paper.

Yep I know how this "game" goes and I have considered the possibility of aways backfiring but the fact remains I HAVE to do them for several reasons. I have NO experience with orthopedic surgery aside from my desire to pursue the career. The places I'm planning on rotating at (USC, somewhere in the midwest, and Emory) are strategically chosen not to make sure I match at those particular programs but to get my name out there and to most importantly get some letters.

I'm not going to downplay the fact that my score will open a lot of doors but I'm a naturally paranoid human being and I anticipate and expect the worst. With that being said I don't think doing aways would backfire I'm not the greatest med student since Galen but I consider myself easy to get along with and I'm hardworking.

double post

Hello,

I am 2005 IMG from country of Georgia (Europe). After graduation I did ortho residency equivalent (5 years) in Central Institute of Traumatology and Orthopedics (CITO) in Moscow, Russia. Out of these 5 years, I spent 3.5 years in Department of Joint Replacement. After residency, I moved back to my country and started practice with specialization in hip and knee joint replacement. I have been working here for past 2 years.

I have authored total knee arthroplasty guidelines in Russia. I authored thesis that was published for SICOT meeting. I perform THR and TKR (w. and w/o CAS).

I am aiming for 2014 Match. After passing USMLE exams, doing research and observership in US:
1. What are my chances of getting into ortho residency?
2. What USMLE scores do I need?
3. How long should research and observership be?
4. What else should I improve in my application?


I appreciate your help,
VB

Originally Posted by SlickNickMD

Yep I know how this "game" goes and I have considered the possibility of aways backfiring but the fact remains I HAVE to do them for several reasons. I have NO experience with orthopedic surgery aside from my desire to pursue the career. The places I'm planning on rotating at (USC, somewhere in the midwest, and Emory) are strategically chosen not to make sure I match at those particular programs but to get my name out there and to most importantly get some letters.

I'm not going to downplay the fact that my score will open a lot of doors but I'm a naturally paranoid human being and I anticipate and expect the worst. With that being said I don't think doing aways would backfire I'm not the greatest med student since Galen but I consider myself easy to get along with and I'm hardworking.

There is a STRONG regional bias in granting interviews. The exceptions are the big academic powerhouses (Mayo, Harvard). Program directors are aware that you are likely to end up in your own "neighborhood", and are more likely to grant interviews to qualified applicants from that region. You might consider limiting or concentrating your away rotations to areas to which you have strong ties.
Good luck.

I'd love some feedback on my chances at an ortho residency after a somewhat disappointing meeting with my dean's letter writer. I'm planning on applying pretty much anywhere non-military and not the deep south.

I'm an MS IV
Step 1: 235
Preclinical: pass, honors in genetics
Clinical: mix of Satisfactory/Excellent (Excellent in all surgical areas), Honors in sports med

Currently work as a medical intern for a large race program and have been medical director for several large races (9,000+ runners)
Research: I have a PhD, multiple papers and presentations, pending patent

Kinda nervous because I got slammed by a resident who's comments will unfortunately show up on my letter but conflicts with other comments from the same rotation (not ortho or surgery).

I really want to do ortho but I also really don't want to scramble or soap or wait a year or whatever to go into some non-ortho field.

With regards to the regional bias of programs in granting interviews, is that related more to where you do med school (and thus get letters from folks around there) or where you grew up, or both? I ask because I grew up Southeast, have done Ugrad/Med in Midwest, and would ideally like to go back to SE.

Originally Posted by dingorock

I'd love some feedback on my chances at an ortho residency after a somewhat disappointing meeting with my dean's letter writer. I'm planning on applying pretty much anywhere non-military and not the deep south.

I'm an MS IV
Step 1: 235
Preclinical: pass, honors in genetics
Clinical: mix of Satisfactory/Excellent (Excellent in all surgical areas), Honors in sports med

Currently work as a medical intern for a large race program and have been medical director for several large races (9,000+ runners)
Research: I have a PhD, multiple papers and presentations, pending patent

Kinda nervous because I got slammed by a resident who's comments will unfortunately show up on my letter but conflicts with other comments from the same rotation (not ortho or surgery).

I really want to do ortho but I also really don't want to scramble or soap or wait a year or whatever to go into some non-ortho field.

You seem to have a realistic grasp of what's going on (at least how you present it). You are an average sounding ortho applicant with one blemish on your record. This may go completely unnoticed, especially if not in a surgical area. Entire Dean's letters are not necessarily read. Your overall ranking in your class will not likely be affected by this one remark. If you really want to do ortho, it may mean taking a "risk" and applying. You can't match if you don't apply.
Do a few away rotations at realistic places you would like to match. Always a good way to increase your odds if you do well on the rotation.

I want to know if it is worth it to even apply. Here are my data:

MSI: 9 Ps, 1 H in Clinical Learning Competencies and a HP in Humanities

MSII: 12 Ps, 1 H (Evidence Based Med), Failed Cardio (then successful remediation), HP in renal,
ethics, and humanities.

MSIII: 4 HP (FM, Primary Care rotation, Ob/Gyn, Psych), 1 Honors (elective), 2 Pass (IM, Peds), Surgery (finishing rotation now)

Step 1: 213

Research: Pending

I am willing to take a year for research, doing something like 4 publications.
I am desperate to do well on Step 2 CK, considering my step 1 score...I'm probably going to need at least a 240+
I have 2 away rotations I can possibly play with in my fourth year. I perform well in person and am looking for places that might be open to taking someone with my grades.

Originally Posted by Makaio

I want to know if it is worth it to even apply. Here are my data:

MSI: 9 Ps, 1 H in Clinical Learning Competencies and a HP in Humanities

MSII: 12 Ps, 1 H (Evidence Based Med), Failed Cardio (then successful remediation), HP in renal,
ethics, and humanities.

MSIII: 4 HP (FM, Primary Care rotation, Ob/Gyn, Psych), 1 Honors (elective), 2 Pass (IM, Peds), Surgery (finishing rotation now)

Step 1: 213

Research: Pending

I am willing to take a year for research, doing something like 4 publications.
I am desperate to do well on Step 2 CK, considering my step 1 score...I'm probably going to need at least a 240+
I have 2 away rotations I can possibly play with in my fourth year. I perform well in person and am looking for places that might be open to taking someone with my grades.

If you can afford the cost of applications to multiple fields on top of the cost of doing aways you should apply as there is nothing to lose really. As you stated, you are going to need a high CK, (I'd say at least 250s) to overcome your step 1. A year of research could certainly help but in your case, I'd see what happens with CK first if your schedule permits because if you perform poorly on it, there will be no point in taking a year off.
Lastly, Honor your surgery rotation. A Pass would be a significant blemish.

Good luck!

FWIW, I am 100% new to the idea of orthopedics. I just started it up as part of my gen. surg rotation (last one of 3rd year) and had no idea I'd like it so much. My previous consideration had been PM&R--which I'm finding is essentially Orthopedics without the OR time (they take a prelim surg yr). Just didn't plan on liking the OR this much...

It's obvious to me that I'm staring at an uphill battle, and I'm not confident I can ever get a spot. I would kick myself if I didn't give it a shot though. So my plan is to apply to Ortho and surg prelim. Anticipate rejection, then continue finish surg prelim and re-apply to all ortho again...as well as PM&R--but ranking all Ortho spots higher than PM&R.

Does that all sound reasonable?

FYI: I would love to hear about the best audition rotations to do. I am doing 1 home, and have to w/d from my 3 PM&R away spots in order to open time for ortho spots. I understand I should go for overlooked community programs that favor rotators...but exactly which ones are those???

PS: where/when does a research year fit in, if at all? And what impact does an athletic background and minority status have on applications?

Hey All,

Long time reader first time poster. Just got the Step 1 score today 233, a little disappointed. 2nd author on GI paper in Annals, I'm trying to get some more research in (but who knows if it will be publishable). I have some honors and high passes in basic sciences. Obviously, I am going to try and honor my surgery rotation this upcoming December My question is do I have a realistic chance at ortho, or should I just try to go through General Surgery and a fellowship? Thanks for the advise!

Originally Posted by Makaio

I want to know if it is worth it to even apply. Here are my data:

MSI: 9 Ps, 1 H in Clinical Learning Competencies and a HP in Humanities

MSII: 12 Ps, 1 H (Evidence Based Med), Failed Cardio (then successful remediation), HP in renal,
ethics, and humanities.

MSIII: 4 HP (FM, Primary Care rotation, Ob/Gyn, Psych), 1 Honors (elective), 2 Pass (IM, Peds), Surgery (finishing rotation now)

Step 1: 213

Research: Pending

Don Quixote comes to mind. The bottom 25% of successful ortho applicants had 230 on Step 1 (you're 2/3rds a deviation below even that), and these are likely the candidates with tremendous amount of interest and connections (or URM, home program advantage, etc) plus strong third year grades, and not someone who discovered ortho late into MS3 with no ortho letters, no chairman contact and mediocre third year grades. For your own sanity and happiness, learn to love something else. Scrambling into prelim surgery is no fun.

Is that in reference to me or to Makaio? I see that people have an 80% match rate in the 230-240 range, but I assume those are higher end 230s with major research and connections. I have limited research and no connections. I also am not URM. Any chance? Also, what is the best way to contact and express interest? I am not really good at sucking up.

Originally Posted by residentbadaz1

Is that in reference to me or to Makaio? I see that people have an 80% match rate in the 230-240 range, but I assume those are higher end 230s with major research and connections. I have limited research and no connections. I also am not URM. Any chance? Also, what is the best way to contact and express interest? I am not really good at sucking up.

Obviously to Makaio since I was quoting Makaio and his 213 and passes in Medicine.

I don't know any more than you about your chances, but charting outcomes do show people with 233s match around 80% chance, and at least 25% of orthopedic applicants who matched have Step 1 below 230. But it does look a little more risky, and those 25% probably are likely not your typical applicant.

When I applied to college and med school, my experience was that I had to hit above average reported scores in order to have a decent shot, since I'm not URM, have no amazing connections, not particularly creative or imaginative (boring personal statements and not a wooer), and had generic "hardworking, responsible, strong student" letters. I couldn't take solace at the 25th percentile scores.

I know Step 1 and research are the most important things to worry about, but how much weight is put on pre-clinical grades? Also my school is pass/fail, but in our dean's letter they list which quartile of the class we're ranked in. Aside from AOA/not AOA, is there much weight put on class rank?

Hi,
I'm in my 3rd year MD and want to apply to the US match next year (for internal or ortho), but looking for advice/tips.

School:
- Canadian Med School

USMLE Step I, Step 2:
- haven't done yet. What do I need?

AOA:
- No such thing in Canada; all courses are P/F, no high pass or anything.

Research:
- Ph.D. in Engineering
- 10 first author papers, a couple other co-authors
- 20 abstracts with presentations (international, national, local)
- A bunch of technical reports for industry
- Reports for government
- Patents
- All research in the general area of bone, joint, muscle. Some is more ortho, some more rheum, some more sports med, thus my interest in both internal and ortho residencies.

Volunteer/Teaching:
- the standard stuff plus:
- Planned conferences
- Supervised undergrads
- TA
- Representative on academic research committees
- journal reviewer

Other:
- previous work at a public health department

Since I'm Canadian, I'm not sure what sort of program I have a shot at in the US. Part of the problem is that I'm interested in musculoskeletal stuff in general, so will end up having a split of elective time and interest in pursuing internal med (rheum or sports med) and ortho (this post has also been posted in the internal forum - sorry for double dipping). Additionally, I want to do a post-doc at the same place as residency so only want to match to a place that has research opportunities specific to my area of expertise. So here's the list so far. I realize they are all competitive programs, but I'm not willing to abandon the research; otherwise I'll just stay in Canada.

Baylor (Houston)
Brown
Harvard
U Colorado
U Washington
Stanford

Any chance at these types of ortho programs given my stats, or will it really depend on USMLE scores? What sort of scores should I be aiming for to have a good shot at these places? Will doing elective time split between internal and ortho hinder my chances (by the way, I plan on doing electives at some of the places above)? Any other tips to improve chances?

Thanks!

After looking through threads on here, orthogate and the numbers on charting outcomes I'm wondering how folks with <230 step 1 stand out on paper? There seem to be a number of applicants matching with less than stellar scores. Do they have 1st author publications, amazing letters, etc?

Originally Posted by Oreamnos

Hi,
I'm in my 3rd year MD and want to apply to the US match next year (for internal or ortho), but looking for advice/tips.

School:
- Canadian Med School

USMLE Step I, Step 2:
- haven't done yet. What do I need?

AOA:
- No such thing in Canada; all courses are P/F, no high pass or anything.

Research:
- Ph.D. in Engineering
- 10 first author papers, a couple other co-authors
- 20 abstracts with presentations (international, national, local)
- A bunch of technical reports for industry
- Reports for government
- Patents
- All research in the general area of bone, joint, muscle. Some is more ortho, some more rheum, some more sports med, thus my interest in both internal and ortho residencies.

Volunteer/Teaching:
- the standard stuff plus:
- Planned conferences
- Supervised undergrads
- TA
- Representative on academic research committees
- journal reviewer

Other:
- previous work at a public health department

Since I'm Canadian, I'm not sure what sort of program I have a shot at in the US. Part of the problem is that I'm interested in musculoskeletal stuff in general, so will end up having a split of elective time and interest in pursuing internal med (rheum or sports med) and ortho (this post has also been posted in the internal forum - sorry for double dipping). Additionally, I want to do a post-doc at the same place as residency so only want to match to a place that has research opportunities specific to my area of expertise. So here's the list so far. I realize they are all competitive programs, but I'm not willing to abandon the research; otherwise I'll just stay in Canada.

Baylor (Houston)
Brown
Harvard
U Colorado
U Washington
Stanford

Any chance at these types of ortho programs given my stats, or will it really depend on USMLE scores? What sort of scores should I be aiming for to have a good shot at these places? Will doing elective time split between internal and ortho hinder my chances (by the way, I plan on doing electives at some of the places above)? Any other tips to improve chances?

Thanks!

Delve into the NRMP data (google it), to see where you line up. Non-US grads have a very difficult time matching into residency programs that are highly competitive. That being said if you are interested in an MSK type career than you might look into the IM/FM based fellowships in sports medicine. You might even be able to find a fellowship that would allow you to do scopes. Regardless start with the NRMP.

Still an undecided MS3. I'm thinking Ortho or Rads and trying to make a decision soon to start adding to my research resume. How do my chances look at this point for ortho, and what are my top priorities for the next 12 months?

School: Top 40 US allopathic in CA
Preclinical: all pass (pass/fail system)
Step1: 261
Clinical: no grades yet, likely mix of H and HP (haven't done Surg yet)
Research: One 1st author ortho paper, abstract accepted, unsure what will happen with pub
EC: sports, some minor club leadership positions, hobbies

Originally Posted by Magillicutty

Still an undecided MS3. I'm thinking Ortho or Rads and trying to make a decision soon to start adding to my research resume. How do my chances look at this point for ortho, and what are my top priorities for the next 12 months?

School: Top 40 US allopathic in CA
Preclinical: all pass (pass/fail system)
Step1: 261
Clinical: no grades yet, likely mix of H and HP (haven't done Surg yet)
Research: One 1st author ortho paper, abstract accepted, unsure what will happen with pub
EC: sports, some minor club leadership positions, hobbies

Do well in your Clinical rotations and schedule a few away rotations next year, and you should be good to go.

Hi all, hoping someone can help me gauge my chances at securing an orthopaedic surgery residency. I am currently halfway through my third year and am at a top 100 U.S. allopathic school. The beginning of my medical school career was far from ideal, but I have since improved. I know that spotless records are the norm for many of the ortho programs across the country so your input is appreciated.

Year 1- all pass, no honors

Year 2- failed microbiology, had to retake the following year, rest pass, no honors

Year 2 (2.0)- passed microbiology, research in infectious disease, Two abstracts published in American Journal for Infection Control, One paper published in American Society for Microbiology: Antimicrobial agents and Chemotherapy. (Not first author)

Step One- 243

Year 3-
Elective (Radiology, which is what I initially thought I wanted to do)- Pass
Family Medicine- Pass upon remediation
Pediatrics- High Pass
Internal Medicine- at least High Pass (have not received shelf score yet)

OB/GYN, Psych, Neuro, Surgery still to come

Extracurricular: regular volunteering at a local free clinic, gave lectures to >300 people total throughout the community regarding hypertension, diabetes, cancer screening, sexual health, health care professions.

As I said, my performance during the first two years is regrettable however, I have sorted through personal issues and set my priorities straight since then and believe that I can acheive at a high level from here on out. I am in contact with the ortho chair at our school and hope to start research with him sometime in the next two weeks. Any advice that can be offered regarding increasing my chances at getting into an ortho program or whether or not I even have a chance, is thoroughly appreciated.

Originally Posted by DTW Han Solo

Hi all, hoping someone can help me gauge my chances at securing an orthopaedic surgery residency.

Just a 4th year here, but have been interviewing in ortho and have some thoughts. I have no idea how the remediation in your 2nd year will go over, but it sounds like you were productive with the time. I would prioritize the following in no particular order:

Clerkship grades: You NEED to honor at least surgery and all of your ortho rotations. It sounds like you have figured out what has held you back in the past, so keep it up and finish your clinicals strong.

Step I/II: Your step 1 score won't hold you back (mine is similar), but it probably won't make you stand out as it is about average for ortho. If possible take step II early and DOMINATE it, show programs you can consistently test at a high level.

Research: Get started soon, preferably on several projects, and be able to talk about them confidently. I don't have any ortho pubs, but have several ongoing projects that have come up during every interview so far.

Away rotations: Apply for these through VSAS as soon as possible. At least 2, but I have been running into lots of folks who did 3 or 4 in addition to their home program. It's difficult to do, but try to pick places you will be competitive at, i.e. rotating at HSS and Harvard may not be the most productive.

Good luck!

Hey all,

MS3 here. Just recently got interested in ortho. Was dead set on internal medicine ever since MS1, but after doing my medicine rotation found out I would hate being an internist. Thought back on which rotation I had the best time on, which turns out to be ortho. Just wondering what my chances are at residencies in California or Texas.

Step 1: 260
Step 2: late as possible
Research: 1 abstract, 1 first author paper pending, possible 2 co-auther papers pending (all research in GI)
School: top 10
Pre-clnical & clinical grades: all pass (pass fail school)
AOA: don't know yet, lets just say worst case scenario as no

I know it looks pretty good so far, but the reason I ask is that all my research is in GI related field and I have no ortho research...question is how much will that effect my chances of matching in a Califronia program? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

Thanks!

Originally Posted by hotchik

Hey all,

MS3 here. Just recently got interested in ortho. Was dead set on internal medicine ever since MS1, but after doing my medicine rotation found out I would hate being an internist. Thought back on which rotation I had the best time on, which turns out to be ortho. Just wondering what my chances are at residencies in California or Texas.

Step 1: 260
Step 2: late as possible
Research: 1 abstract, 1 first author paper pending, possible 2 co-auther papers pending (all research in GI)
School: top 10
Pre-clnical & clinical grades: all pass (pass fail school)
AOA: don't know yet, lets just say worst case scenario as no

I know it looks pretty good so far, but the reason I ask is that all my research is in GI related field and I have no ortho research...question is how much will that effect my chances of matching in a Califronia program? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

Thanks!

I'm not sure about the ortho research affecting you, but as a fellow MS3 there are a few things I think you'll need to get started on if you want to go into ortho:
1) consider alternatives like gsurg -> colorectal (if you like GI so much)
2) get your summer/fall planned out -> start thinking about doing 2 or 3 ortho away rotations in addition to your home program's ortho rotation and having at least a couple of them done by October or so.
3) it's not at all too late to get involved in one or two ortho projects by the time ERAS is sent out...

still depressed about my step 1 score...224..I should have done much better (esp based on my practice scores, was lookin at ~240) but it is what it is and i can't do anything about it now..I'm a M3 (US student) and recently fell in love with ortho and just started an ortho research project a couple of months back..

my CV is pretty unique and am a MD/MPH but nothing directly relevant to ortho..i also did a research year in cardio with Sarnoff fellowship (a prestigious research fellowship in cardio)...should i give up hope on ortho? i wanted to match at a university program because I want to go into academics (ortho oncology) but considering my step 1 it seems like i would be very lucky to match even at a community program..most programs wont even look at my application right because i wont make the cut-off?..a high step 2 (>250) still wont cut it right? anything I can do to increase my chances? should I talk to my program director at my home program? will applying to both general surgery and ortho hurt my chances in gen surg? any help or advice would be greatly appreciated..

Originally Posted by ortho2014

still depressed about my step 1 score...224..I should have done much better (esp based on my practice scores, was lookin at ~240) but it is what it is and i can't do anything about it now..I'm a M3 (US student) and recently fell in love with ortho and just started an ortho research project a couple of months back..

my CV is pretty unique and am a MD/MPH but nothing directly relevant to ortho..i also did a research year in cardio with Sarnoff fellowship (a prestigious research fellowship in cardio)...should i give up hope on ortho? i wanted to match at a university program because I want to go into academics (ortho oncology) but considering my step 1 it seems like i would be very lucky to match even at a community program..most programs wont even look at my application right because i wont make the cut-off?..a high step 2 (>250) still wont cut it right? anything I can do to increase my chances? should I talk to my program director at my home program? will applying to both general surgery and ortho hurt my chances in gen surg? any help or advice would be greatly appreciated..

Give it a try. Your score is good enough to match. You can get a great fellowship out of any program (academic and community). In the unlikely event you still want to do Ortho Onc at the end of your residency, you can get into a fellowship (it's not one of the more competitive ones) at a well known place and have your pick of jobs. There are lots of universities that need/want Onc.

Might as well see what you guys think

Step 1: 253
Pre-clin: A's
Clinical: B+ fam, peds, neuro, surg

I'm pretty pissed off about these. I have consistently made an 89.1-89.4 on every rotation so far. I decided ortho would be right for me around the last week of my surgery rotation, and now I'm starting to think I am screwed based on my clinical grades. Any advice before I start to try and work out some away rotations?

(I'll add that I was a D1 athlete if it has any bearing at all)

Originally Posted by shenanigi

Might as well see what you guys think

Step 1: 253
Pre-clin: A's
Clinical: B+ fam, peds, neuro, surg

I'm pretty pissed off about these. I have consistently made an 89.1-89.4 on every rotation so far. I decided ortho would be right for me around the last week of my surgery rotation, and now I'm starting to think I am screwed based on my clinical grades. Any advice before I start to try and work out some away rotations?

(I'll add that I was a D1 athlete if it has any bearing at all)

No huge plus being athlete, minor bump if any unless you were all american, nat'l champ, etc... Better if you were team capt or something.

As for your clinical grades, not a plus, but not that big a negative either. Get some research started. Rock your home ortho rotation. Go on a few away rotations and work harder than you ever have before. Be prepared for every case. Be active/engaged/interested without being annoying. Go for some beers with the guys/gals. Your chances are probably above avg as long as you have a personality that people want to be around. GL.

Originally Posted by skiz knot

No huge plus being athlete, minor bump if any unless you were all american, nat'l champ, etc... Better if you were team capt or something.

As for your clinical grades, not a plus, but not that big a negative either. Get some research started. Rock your home ortho rotation. Go on a few away rotations and work harder than you ever have before. Be prepared for every case. Be active/engaged/interested without being annoying. Go for some beers with the guys/gals. Your chances are probably above avg as long as you have a personality that people want to be around. GL.

Thanks for the response. I actually spoke with my home institution ortho residency director last evening, and he pretty much told me the exact same thing. Any suggestions regarding books/sources to better prep for cases?

I also managed to switch into a two week ortho rotation at home starting next week due to my neurosurg rotation getting cancelled. Worked out for the better if you ask me.

Edit - When I asked him about research he basically told me not to worry about it. He made it seem like the biggest factors were Step 1, Class rank, and personality/fit. I was honestly shocked by how quickly he dismissed research being an important factor in matching.

Originally Posted by shenanigi

Thanks for the response. I actually spoke with my home institution ortho residency director last evening, and he pretty much told me the exact same thing. Any suggestions regarding books/sources to better prep for cases?

I also managed to switch into a two week ortho rotation at home starting next week due to my neurosurg rotation getting cancelled. Worked out for the better if you ask me.

Edit - When I asked him about research he basically told me not to worry about it. He made it seem like the biggest factors were Step 1, Class rank, and personality/fit. I was honestly shocked by how quickly he dismissed research being an important factor in matching.

Get some research. In something. At my institution you will not make it past the screening process unless you have research listed on your application. I would have to assume I am not at the only program where this is true.

For books, get a copy of Hoppenfeld's surgical anatomy from your library for learning relevant anatomy for approaches. Get a Handbook of fractures if you will be doing any trauma. Cheap. Old editions are fine. www.wheelessonline.com and www.orthobullets.com are great resourse for ortho topics, both sites are in outline format, short and to the point.
Also, do a literature search on any attending you will be working with. Surgeons have egos. Know their **** (they likely will ask) and you will look like a star.

Originally Posted by skiz knot

Get some research. In something. At my institution you will not make it past the screening process unless you have research listed on your application. I would have to assume I am not at the only program where this is true.

For books, get a copy of Hoppenfeld's surgical anatomy from your library for learning relevant anatomy for approaches. Get a Handbook of fractures if you will be doing any trauma. Cheap. Old editions are fine. www.wheelessonline.com and www.orthobullets.com are great resourse for ortho topics, both sites are in outline format, short and to the point.
Also, do a literature search on any attending you will be working with. Surgeons have egos. Know their **** (they likely will ask) and you will look like a star.

Again - I appreciate the advice. It feels pretty damn late in the game to get my nose into some ortho research, but ill see what I can make happen.

Hey,

Wondering what my chances are for ortho and how I can improve my app to increase my chances of landing a residency. I am a 3rd year on surgery just realizing that I want to pursue ortho as a career.

Med School: Top 50 US med school and ortho program. History of matching decently well into ortho.
Step 1 - 252
Preclinicals - 2 core honors, all the rest A's.
Clinicals- All A so far. H for medicine. Doing well so far in surgery.
Research - Weakness of my app. Because I have recently decided I want to do ortho I dont have any ortho specific research. Did research in a cardiothoracic surgery lab that produced multiple presentations and 1 abstract. May have a publication on the way. Great letter of rec from PI.
Extracurriculars: AOA, selected to interview applicants when I was a second year. Random Med school clubs. Tutoring high school students in second year.

What are my chances? Obviously I need more ortho research and more ortho connectiions with my app. I am planning on meeting with the ortho residency director in a week to see what else I can do to boost my chances of landing an ortho spot. Thanks in advance.

Your chances are good. The #s are in your favor. If you are a hard working and reasonable person that people can stand being around... you will do fine. Try to get some ortho research and good ortho letters.

School: Top 50 (I think) US allopathic state school in Southeast (Go SEC!)
Preclinical: All A's first year, All P's second year
Step1: 257
Step2: 261 (took at end of November so it had no effect on my application)
Clinical: B+ Surgery (first rotation), the rest A's
Research: Zero, zilch, nada.
AOA: Yes
EC: intramural sports, some minor club leadership positions, hobbies

I did 4 total ortho rotations (home and 3 aways). Received 23 interview invites, went on 11. Been told by two programs so far that I am ranked-to-match (always take this with a grain of salt).

As you can see, research is not a deal breaker so do not get caught up in it. The ONLY people who asked me about research on my rotations were..... (DRUM ROLL) basic science research faculty... It may help at some huge academic programs.

Also, it is not a requirement to honor your surgery rotation. Yes it would be nice to do so, but it too does not ruin your application.

Just be an all-around ass kicker (ESPECIALLY on your ortho rotations) and you will be fine.

Originally Posted by gatorsforchrist

School: Top 50 (I think) US allopathic state school in Southeast (Go SEC!)
Preclinical: All A's first year, All P's second year
Step1: 257
Step2: 261 (took at end of November so it had no effect on my application)
Clinical: B+ Surgery (first rotation), the rest A's
Research: Zero, zilch, nada.
AOA: Yes
EC: intramural sports, some minor club leadership positions, hobbies

I did 4 total ortho rotations (home and 3 aways). Received 23 interview invites, went on 11. Been told by two programs so far that I am ranked-to-match (always take this with a grain of salt).

As you can see, research is not a deal breaker so do not get caught up in it. The ONLY people who asked me about research on my rotations were..... (DRUM ROLL) basic science research faculty... It may help at some huge academic programs.

Also, it is not a requirement to honor your surgery rotation. Yes it would be nice to do so, but it too does not ruin your application.

Just be an all-around ass kicker (ESPECIALLY on your ortho rotations) and you will be fine.

Good to hear.

Originally Posted by shenanigi

Good to hear.

Didn't honor his surgery rotation but has 99th %ile boards... No brainer there.

Originally Posted by Untraditional

Didn't honor his surgery rotation but has 99th %ile boards... No brainer there.

Within 4 points of me... just saying it makes me feel a little better about my chances.

Not great Midwest program
Step 1: 230s
Applied: 70+
Interview offers: 31
Ranking: 16

Can't wait for the match.

Getting interviews depends on much more than your step 1 score.
I got asked a lot about and talked a lot about my research.

Why are you only ranking 16? Is that how many programs with which you interviewed? If not, rank em all. Your chances are worse second time around!

Originally Posted by skiz knot

Why are you only ranking 16? Is that how many programs with which you interviewed? If not, rank em all. Your chances are worse second time around!

This is a moot point. Rank lists were certified last week.

Originally Posted by skiz knot

Why are you only ranking 16? Is that how many programs with which you interviewed? If not, rank em all. Your chances are worse second time around!

I attended 16 interviews. I was only able to schedule 18/31 because of overlapping dates. I got tired and ran out of $ in jan so I cancelled 2 interviews at schools on the bottom of my list.


However, statistically speaking once you rank 14+ programs in ortho you have 95+% chance of matching, so going on more than that wont improve your chances significantly. However, it might give you better options to choose from. I picked my 16 favorites that I could schedule and I could honestly be happy matching at any one of them. I agree tho you should absolutely should rank every interview you go on.

So here's my deal. Third year is coming to a close. I go to a top 5 med school according to the research rankings by USNWR. I wasn't even thinking surgery until this year but loved my surgery rotation. I just think ortho would be a better lifestyle and I've always been athletic, playing football in high school and continuing weight lifting as a serious hobby.

I'm very hesitant however to even try because my step I is very low (228). I am taking next academic year off to complete a nationally prestigious basic science research fellowship which will not be ortho related. I've done very well in my clerkships with great evaluations and i have some strong letters from general surgeons. I'm also a UMR and speak spanish if that's worth anything when it comes to applying for residency (I suspect it doesn't). Should I go down the path of talking to the ortho people at my school about applying or is it a waste of time to even consider ortho? thanks for any opinions.

Originally Posted by katyperryesque

So here's my deal. Third year is coming to a close. I go to a top 5 med school according to the research rankings by USNWR. I wasn't even thinking surgery until this year but loved my surgery rotation. I just think ortho would be a better lifestyle and I've always been athletic, playing football in high school and continuing weight lifting as a serious hobby.

I'm very hesitant however to even try because my step I is very low (228). I am taking next academic year off to complete a nationally prestigious basic science research fellowship which will not be ortho related. I've done very well in my clerkships with great evaluations and i have some strong letters from general surgeons. I'm also a UMR and speak spanish if that's worth anything when it comes to applying for residency (I suspect it doesn't). Should I go down the path of talking to the ortho people at my school about applying or is it a waste of time to even consider ortho? thanks for any opinions.

It's not going to be easy to get into ortho, but I don't think it's impossible either. If you've really done well in your clerkships (ie honoring most if not all of your rotations) plus your research, I think you still have a chance. But you need to realize that many programs now are using Step 1 scores as an easy filter for those who they will even consider for an interview.

My first suggestion would be to absolutely rock Step 2. Taking a year off to do research will hopefully give you some free time to study for the exam and do well. A very strong Step 2 score (and in your case, I would aim for >250) could definitely help compensate for a low Step 1 score. Another reason to take Step 2 sooner rather than later is that you will eventually begin to forget everything you learned during third year, especially if you're not on the floors for a whole year while you're doing research.

For the first few months of your fourth year, I would apply to away rotations that very often interview those who rotate with them and work harder than you've ever worked before. Not only will this show that you would be a hard working resident, but this will also help you get great letters of recommendations from orthopaedic surgeons (strong letters from gen surgeons is good, but you absolutely need great letters from people within the field). Some people would suggest doing an ortho rotation at your home program and then 2 aways, however, you might need to do at least 3 aways in order to increase your chances of getting interviews.

Lastly, when you apply to ERAS and for ortho programs, apply to as many as you can. It will be more expensive, but if you really want to get into ortho, you're going to have apply broadly in order to increase your chances of getting interviews. This means spending a crap ton of money. It sucks, but so does SOAPing. You might want to also consider backing up in another field such as gen surg to prevent SOAPing as well.

Good luck. You definitely have a more difficult road ahead of you, but it's not impossible. I just matched into ortho in March, so feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.