Do you love or hate med students?

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if you go to a grad program with med students, do they get on your nerves?

this is assuming that you're not in grad school to get IN to med school

Originally Posted by peehdee

if you go to a grad program with med students, do they get on your nerves?

this is assuming that you're not in grad school to get IN to med school

As a MSTP student, I see both graduate and medical students complain about each other (often I just keep my mouth shut about being a MD/PhD student because both groups certainly have even more negative opinions about the quality of MSTP students).

Graduate students tend to dislike the "gunner personalities" in medical school (which some medical students dislike as well). I think this is somewhat related to the importance of grades in medical school when compared to graduate school. Medical school tends to emphasize grades as a quantitative measure of success whereas graduate school emphasize the research aspect (i.e. number and quality of publications). I have seen graduate students roll their eyes everytime a medical student asks "Is this going to be on the test?" or "How can they test us on something that is not in the syllabus?"; this is especially evident when graduate students T.A. medical students.

Medical students sometimes feel that the reason graduate students are there is because they could not get into medical school. From their point of view, they don't always understand why anyone would go to graduate school given the opportunity to enroll in medical school. At some schools there is a disparity between the GPA's of the medical students and the graduate students and this further separates preconceived notions between the two schools. They also resent having to take a full course load (the equivalent of 15-18 credit hours; 3-5 classes) whereas the graduate students take 1-3 classes yet they still take the same tests and contribute to the curve. What the medical students don't often appreciate is that Ph.D. students are in lab working at the same time so even though they are taking fewer classes, the time is spent in a lab.

However, when both medical and graduate students graduate and enter academic research; I think these notions go out the window and they learn to appreciate the basic science expertise of Ph.D.s and the clinical experience of M.D.s.

well put there lad

Originally Posted by BDavis

As a MSTP student, I see both graduate and medical students complain about each other (often I just keep my mouth shut about being a MD/PhD student because both groups certainly have even more negative opinions about the quality of MSTP students).

Graduate students tend to dislike the "gunner personalities" in medical school (which some medical students dislike as well). I think this is somewhat related to the importance of grades in medical school when compared to graduate school. Medical school tends to emphasize grades as a quantitative measure of success whereas graduate school emphasize the research aspect (i.e. number and quality of publications). I have seen graduate students roll their eyes everytime a medical student asks "Is this going to be on the test?" or "How can they test us on something that is not in the syllabus?"; this is especially evident when graduate students T.A. medical students.

Medical students sometimes feel that the reason graduate students are there is because they could not get into medical school. From their point of view, they don't always understand why anyone would go to graduate school given the opportunity to enroll in medical school. At some schools there is a disparity between the GPA's of the medical students and the graduate students and this further separates preconceived notions between the two schools. They also resent having to take a full course load (the equivalent of 15-18 credit hours; 3-5 classes) whereas the graduate students take 1-3 classes yet they still take the same tests and contribute to the curve. What the medical students don't often appreciate is that Ph.D. students are in lab working at the same time so even though they are taking fewer classes, the time is spent in a lab.

However, when both medical and graduate students graduate and enter academic research; I think these notions go out the window and they learn to appreciate the basic science expertise of Ph.D.s and the clinical experience of M.D.s.

I put my fellow Grad students on the same level as I put the MD students at my school: Some are great, some suck like a hoover.

Originally Posted by BDavis

However, when both medical and graduate students graduate and enter academic research; I think these notions go out the window and they learn to appreciate the basic science expertise of Ph.D.s and the clinical experience of M.D.s.

I'm not so sure of this. There are many PhDs who continue to criticize the approach or preparation of both MDs and MD/PhDs for careers in research. I agree that most PhDs repect MDs when it comes to clinical stuff, but many of them don't think MDs make good basic researchers which isn't necessarily true. On the other hand I think many MDs throughout their careers continue to think of PhDs as those who didn't or couldn't get into MD programs. The arrogance of some of them is astonishing!!! I wouldn't say that these notions go out the window... but rather maybe when the contacts become less (i.e. you don't take classes together anymore) and you enter the professional world were you have to do a lot of socializing to "survive" you learn how to mask those notions better. Just my 2 cents from observing both groups...

Originally Posted by uproarhz

I wouldn't say that these notions go out the window... but rather maybe when the contacts become less (i.e. you don't take classes together anymore) and you enter the professional world were you have to do a lot of socializing to "survive" you learn how to mask those notions better.

I agree that there are always M.D.s and Ph.D.s that will never get along and have these preconceived notions about each other (there are still M.D.s and Ph.D.s that believe you should not have children during residency/post-doc). Because I am not a woman maybe some faculty do not have a problem saying these things to me. Sort of when faculty don't realize I am a MSTP student they will trash either M.D.s or Ph.D.s (or M.D./Ph.Ds in which you get the worst of both worlds; the comment "jack of all trades, but master of none" was funny one). However, regardless of their personal opinions, I think when a manuscript is on the line or reagents are needed, people magically get "friendly".

I overheard a young PhD in the undergrad bio department earlier this semester say something along the lines of, "We're the real doctors here. We were making science happen even back when they were putting leeches on people."




Now, granted that a science-related or biomedical related American PhD takes anywhere from 4-7, 8...10 years even, perhaps PhD holders should be paid a little more for their work? At this school, assistant professors start out in the 40's.

Starting salary for a BS in BME (my major at a different school) is closer to 50 something. Maybe that explains the bitterness of some (I said some) PhD people.

Even with a medical residency factored in, the end result still leaves a salary gap.

Originally Posted by Dallenoff

Now, granted that a science-related or biomedical related American PhD takes anywhere from 4-7, 8...10 years even, perhaps PhD holders should be paid a little more for their work? At this school, assistant professors start out in the 40's.

Starting salary for a BS in BME (my major at a different school) is closer to 50 something. Maybe that explains the bitterness of some (I said some) PhD people.

Even with a medical residency factored in, the end result still leaves a salary gap.

I totally agree that post docs/ PhDs are waaaaaaaay underpaid for their work. I see people at my lab basically working 7 days a week/ 12 hours a day for something like 40K a year. Do the math and that comes to about $10 an hour after 10 years of college education. Sometimes when I tell this to my family they think I'm insane for wanting to do this, but I guess it's good that those of us going into it are looking for more than money! That Nobel prize at the end would be nice!

Originally Posted by peehdee

if you go to a grad program with med students, do they get on your nerves?

this is assuming that you're not in grad school to get IN to med school

It depends on the individual students, not their degree program. I know some med and grad students who are dedicated, smart, and hard-working, and overall I like them. I also know some of each who are lazy, shallow, and unempathetic; THEY get on my nerves, regardless of whether they are med or grad students. All in all, obtaining either kind of degree, let alone both, requires a great deal of hard work and delay of personal gratification, and I think this whole grad vs. med thing is silly.

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