anyone consider law school?

[MD2b20004]

anyone consider law school before or during med school, i was in med school, had to take a leave of absence due to illness, now i am getting older and have so much financial obligations that i was considering law school because of its shorter route. Anyone consider law as a career before or during med school, whats the pros and cons of law school in your opinion, anyone have spouses or friends that are lawyers, how do they like it and how financially secure is it. Any real advice would be appreciated

[kappasigMD41]

No. Never. One thing we don't need is more lawyers.

[UnderDoc]

Originally Posted by MD2b20004

anyone consider law school before or during med school, i was in med school, had to take a leave of absence due to illness, now i am getting older and have so much financial obligations that i was considering law school because of its shorter route. Anyone consider law as a career before or during med school, whats the pros and cons of law school in your opinion, anyone have spouses or friends that are lawyers, how do they like it and how financially secure is it. Any real advice would be appreciated

Though I have no primary experience of law school, many of my friends and family members have attended, so I have some limited insight into the law vs. medicine question. From what I can glean, medicine generally represents a substantially more significant committment than does law school on a variety of fronts - including average debt load, time and strenuousness of training and future work hours (depending on one's ultimate specialty). On the other hand, if your motivation for entering medicine is pure and durable enough, it provides many important rewards on the other end. These include the emotional satisfaction of helping patients and saving lives, the intellectual gratification of applying or developing sciences for the benefit of mankind, and financial satisfaction of inhabiting the upper echelons of American income-earners.

Law, on the other hand, may or may not provide many of these opportunities. If you become a corporate lawyer bent on defending the interests of the powerful, you'll make as much or more than a typical physician, but have to accept, or ignore, the moral repugnance of your labors. If you become a public defender, you may earn emotional satisfaction from your work, but will be woefully underpaid.

In my (rather biased) opinion then, medicine wins out, as it engenders fewer conflicts (moral vs. monetary) than does law. If this is important to you, then I would seriously consider returning to medical school. If you're seeking a swifter, somewhat easier, route to income-earning, then go to law school instead... and sue doctors for a living.

[AlternateSome1]

I've considered it, but not as an alternative. I would like to attend night school after my residency to get my JD. Hopefully my wife will let me.

AS1

[daria]

Originally Posted by MD2b20004

anyone consider law school before or during med school, i was in med school, had to take a leave of absence due to illness, now i am getting older and have so much financial obligations that i was considering law school because of its shorter route. Anyone consider law as a career before or during med school, whats the pros and cons of law school in your opinion, anyone have spouses or friends that are lawyers, how do they like it and how financially secure is it. Any real advice would be appreciated

I saw a study somewhere [I know, no reference... not helpful] that compared the $ you put into med school vs. law school, the $ you get out, and the avg # of hours worked, and one definitely gets more bang for the buck with law school, if that's a primary concern. But really, it's all about what kind of law you want to do. Corporate contracts? You'll make well into 6 figures if you get decent grades. Public interest law? Try maybe 40K in my area.

My husband is a 3rd year law student (in a 4-year part-time program, while he works full time to pay the bills - bless his soul). We'd both agree that law school is a helluva lot easier than med, and I have to personally agree that it sounds much more interesting, compared to MS1&2 anyway. One nice thing about both degrees is that they're quite versatile. There are lots of options in public service, policy work, academia, and research both ways.

Just please, don't be an EVIL lawyer... My deal with my husband when he entered law school was that if he..

1. Morphed into a know-it-all jerk who'd try to silence me in arguments by referring to the reasoning of the 14th 3rd 22nd circuit appellate court...
2. Abandoned his lefty principles to become a corporate lawyer...
3. Starts referring to himself as an "attorney" [I am likewise prevented from using "physician" over "doctor"...]

... I'd kick him to the curb.

[phoenixsupra]

How many years does it take to get a jd if you're already in medschool? I know you can get a bussiness degree in a year. Is that all it takes anyway?

[Lebesgue]

Money isn't everything, and you'll do fine as a doc. Go back to med school and finish up. Use that opportunity you have.

I think being a lawyer would be boring and you would probably regret it in the long run. Also, the med school will be expecting you back, and you'll probably burn any bridge you have to the medical community by quitting. It would give new meaning to the term "starting over"...

I would go back to med school. The real con to law school in your case is that you don't really want to do it or you would have taken leave from law school and not med school, i.e. applied to law school in the beginning.

Everyone is getting older, I'm older since writing this message. One of my classmates is a grandmother, so I don't see how getting older affects the decision that much.

So, get back to med school and good luck.

My opinion.

Did I mention I think you should get back to med school?

[phoenixsupra]

Originally Posted by Lebesgue

Money isn't everything, and you'll do fine as a doc. Go back to med school and finish up. Use that opportunity you have.

I think being a lawyer would be boring and you would probably regret it in the long run. Also, the med school will be expecting you back, and you'll probably burn any bridge you have to the medical community by quitting. It would give new meaning to the term "starting over"...

I would go back to med school. The real con to law school in your case is that you don't really want to do it or you would have taken leave from law school and not med school, i.e. applied to law school in the beginning.

Everyone is getting older, I'm older since writing this message. One of my classmates is a grandmother, so I don't see how getting older affects the decision that much.

So, get back to med school and good luck.

My opinion.

Did I mention I think you should get back to med school?

Ha ha. A friend of mine who is currently in the lawschool leg of his md/jd misses medschool. He finds law school extremely boring in comparison. He describes lawschool as "bickering all day long over where to put a comma". Not sure what he means by that but it doesn't sound good to me.

[UnskinnyBop]

My dad, after finishing his residency, decided to go to law school in the hopes of being a big, bad MD/JD. He wound up quitting after the first month. I asked him recently why, and he said, "Because I was sick of the professors telling the students they were all there because they couldn't get into medical school."

[Vacant]

Originally Posted by UnskinnyBop

My dad, after finishing his residency, decided to go to law school in the hopes of being a big, bad MD/JD. He wound up quitting after the first month. I asked him recently why, and he said, "Because I was sick of the professors telling the students they were all there because they couldn't get into medical school."

I wonder if that's why all these lawyers are so vicious to physicians....jealousy...

[Ypo.]

Originally Posted by MD2b20004

anyone consider law school before or during med school, i was in med school, had to take a leave of absence due to illness, now i am getting older and have so much financial obligations that i was considering law school because of its shorter route. Anyone consider law as a career before or during med school, whats the pros and cons of law school in your opinion, anyone have spouses or friends that are lawyers, how do they like it and how financially secure is it. Any real advice would be appreciated

Not really. I don't feel any kind of interest in law. I don't see that law and medicine are very related.

Getting into any occupation strictly for financial reasons is a poor idea.

[aj725]

I agree with what's been said..med and law seem to bear no similarity in terms of subject matter. So you need to pick what you like and decide if it's feasible. If med school is no longer feasible and you go to law school, that's fine but don't think of it as an alternative--there is probably nothing in law school which will remind you of med in any way, in terms of subject matter, style of teaching etc.

As for the lawyers being jealous of MDs--I don't know about that. I mean its not like I have a large enough sample size to draw a conclusion but I would think that people going to law school could have gone to med school somewhere if they had chosen to. Though maybe the thinking is skewed because I'm thinking of friends at Penn, Columbia, Yale, Georgetown Law--people going to those top law schools could certainly have gotten into a decent med school--maybe not Penn, Columbia etc. Med but still a pretty damn good med school. Who knows..maybe that logic is completely off.

[katrinadams9]

Originally Posted by kappasigMD41

No. Never. One thing we don't need is more lawyers.

I totally agree. The last thing we need is another bloodthirsty, ambulance-chasing malpractice lawyer. I get sick to my stomach every time I see their stupid commercials on TV. "If you've been injured as a result of medical malpractice, call 1-800-SCREW-MD." I have yet to meet a lawyer that isn't exactly like Jim Carey in the first half of Liar Liar.

[HeySha]

Originally Posted by MD2b20004

anyone consider law school before or during med school, i was in med school, had to take a leave of absence due to illness, now i am getting older and have so much financial obligations that i was considering law school because of its shorter route. Anyone consider law as a career before or during med school, whats the pros and cons of law school in your opinion, anyone have spouses or friends that are lawyers, how do they like it and how financially secure is it. Any real advice would be appreciated

I am currently going through the MD or JD debate with myself, have taken the LSAT and the MCAT will be in April.

Pros to me: length of time to complete JD (3 years- some programs are very flexible and have night classes and such to accommodate working students), no prereqs (Just take the LSAT).

Both law and medicine have similar earning potentials, it just depends what type of law or medicine you want to practice, so I wouldn't use the money thing as a reason to do either.

Cons: Lack of respect (Comparatively speaking with physicians), far more lawyers than physicians where I'm from in CA so its harder to find really good jobs.

I've worked for physicians and lawyers in an array of settings, and I'd have to say that the majority of lawyers I've worked with don't like their jobs, and the majority of physicians I've worked with love theirs. That was my personal experience though, so you may discover something different.

Best of luck to you.

[japhy]

to answer a couple of questions, if you are lucky enough to attend a school with a combined md/jd program, you will only spend two years in law school. however, there are only 6-7 programs in the country. so most likely you should plan on spending 3 years in law school.

as to phoenix, i have to totally agree with your friend. i am in my second year of law school and bored out of my mind. there are a few things that i find interesting but overall i can't wait to get back to medicine. if you don't mind, i would love to talk to your friend.

finally, the big differences that i see between medicine and law (and i mean the non-obvious ones), are that most medical careers are interesting and a med student is not limited by grades in the same way the law students are. further, there are relatively cool and interesting jobs in the law. and to get one of those jobs you have to go to a top law school and get the top grades.

i find it odd that law pays off more in the end (financially speaking). most law students do not get to make the plush money (125+) straight out of law school. most typically make 60-80 a year. not that bad, but nowhere near what docs are making, no matter the specialty.

[phoenixsupra]

Originally Posted by japhy

as to phoenix, i have to totally agree with your friend. i am in my second year of law school and bored out of my mind. there are a few things that i find interesting but overall i can't wait to get back to medicine. if you don't mind, i would love to talk to your friend.

Sure, no problem. PM me with your email address and I'll forward it to him. He's a great guy. I'm sure you'll find him interesting.

[theduke]

Law and Medicine are great careers if you have a passion for either. Objectively speaking, there are far more opportunities in medicine, down the line

[fun8stuff]

it seems that the average physician makes almost double the average lawyer....

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm

but of course, the training for medicine is harder and longer... and it should be more than just about money

[tigress]

Originally Posted by katrinadams9

I totally agree. The last thing we need is another bloodthirsty, ambulance-chasing malpractice lawyer. I get sick to my stomach every time I see their stupid commercials on TV. "If you've been injured as a result of medical malpractice, call 1-800-SCREW-MD." I have yet to meet a lawyer that isn't exactly like Jim Carey in the first half of Liar Liar.

Yeah, there's definitely a problem with this type of lawyer. But stop to consider this: who do you expect to defend you when you get sued for malpractice? That's right, there are lawyers on your side, too!

Anyway, in response to the OP: my father is a US attorney. He loves his job because it has tons of variety. Basically he defends the US government when people sue them. So, he defends cases in which people get electrocuted on government property and sue, or if there is a structural problem in a government building that leads to injury (he learns a lot about engineering, electrical stuff, etc. this way). He also defends the VA hospital when people sue there for malpractice, and gets to learn tons of medicine. Seriously, my father has a skeleton and tons of medical textbooks in his office. He isn't out to screw anybody over -- if the case is legit, usually they settle on some payment to the injuried person. On the other hand, plenty of times he's gotten docs off by successfully defending them against frivolous malpractice suits.

So -- I personally think a person with a passion for medicine should go to med school. But on the other hand, law has huge potential. My father has an undergrad engineering degree, and he did consider med school at one point. But law doesn't have to be boring, and he loves the variety he gets.

[Long Dong]

I was pre-law in ungrad originally, but decided to step away from the dark side. Use the force for good young skywalker, don't give into the temptations of the dark side.

[mwhou]

Does anyone else have fundamental objections to the profession of law in general? The way I see it, there is simply no redeeming aspect of the profession. At the very best, a lawyer is by nature a parasitical drain on the resources, productivity, and standard of living of society. They add absolutely nothing to our society, our way of life, quite the contrary. The best argument I can make for the profession is that, due to the terrible system of civil law (created, perpetuated, and made worse by lawyers) a need is created, a necessary evil, to employ lawyers from time to time.

Well I will end my rant – and for what it ’s worth, my experience has been in business, not medicine. However, I have seen plenty of lawyers use the extortion tactic of threatening and pursuing a long drawn out court proceeding (that could cost 6 figures +), on obviously frivolous cases that could be settled for far less. In each case, there was no need for the complexity added by the lawyers and the system – the issues were simple enough for your average middle schooler to understand and evaluate.

CAVEAT: I vigorously dislike the system and profession – but I do realize many idealistic &/or financially motivated people enter the profession every year, without intending malice. I don’t mean this to attack them or their family – I just think the current practice of law should be seriously examined. I think many will look back over their career, years from now, and not be able to count any positive contributions to society.

(so I vote for staying in med school.)

[mwhou]

more on topic:
Many (non-trial/family/business) lawyers see their work as very formulistic - the secretary filling out fill in the blank bar association forms - while the attorney is busy with endless free initial consultations. A lot of salesmanship is involved in developing clients at all levels, an area some were not happy or comfortable with. I'm sure additudes vary, but many people ive met in the profession did not feel very challenged or happy in this type of practice.

Mileage in other types of practice may be considerably better / different.

[Gimlet]

Originally Posted by mwhou

Does anyone else have fundamental objections to the profession of law in general? The way I see it, there is simply no redeeming aspect of the profession. At the very best, a lawyer is by nature a parasitical drain on the resources, productivity, and standard of living of society. They add absolutely nothing to our society, our way of life, quite the contrary.

I don't think this can be categorically said about all lawyers. My mom is a lawyer, and I don't consider her a "parasitical drain on the resources, productivity, and standard of living of society." She practices adoption law and has helped countless couples get through the legal tangle of adoption beauracracy. Last year, she was able to clear up a mess with an international adoption in time for the family to get their baby on Christmas Day. She used to also handle divorces, but stopped taking on those cases because she couldn't stand people trying to screw each other so much.

I agree that there are lots of s***** lawyers out there - especially the ones who make their living attacking a profession whose sole intent is to help people, i.e. physicians, paramedics, etc. Just don't be so quick to judge ALL lawyers, though.

[zipkosucks]

At the very best, a lawyer is by nature a parasitical drain on the resources, productivity, and standard of living of society.

Sure, lawyers are bloodsucking parasites. But when a doctor charges me 200 bucks to put a band aid on my little cut, I think of him as a bloodsucking parasite too!!!!!

When I go to emergency room and they make me sit for an average of 3 hrs (US overall) FOR AN EMERGENCY, and then charge me 2000 bucks later on for the checkup, I think some doctor is a bloodsucking parasite. (Afterall, it is doctors who own hospitals and are on the board of trustees)

After working for 8 years, a doctor becomes a millionaire, and a construction worker is still making 50 grand a year after 20 years of work. Now, if the doctor operates on his left knee instead of right knee.........and charges him 5000 bucks, he is a bloodsucking parasite and DESERVES to get his ass sued.

When a doctor performs "arthritic clean up" at someone's knee knowing fully well that this is not going to change anything for the patient and then charges thousands, he is a bloodsucking parasite.

By the way, our American healthcare system is ranked 37th in the world by World Health Organization. Probably because a minor surgery in US costs at least a few thousand dollars and I can get the same surgery done in UK, France, Germany, Canada, or Italy for a few hundred dollars by BETTER DOCTORS (top ten in the world in healthcare). When I am paying those thousand bucks, I am thinking the doctor is a bloodsucking parasite.

You get the idea how subjective this can be

On one hand doctors charge exorbitant amounts of money for what they do, on the other they think that they are doing a favor to society by working....The number of residencies is being kept fixed for new grads by AMA, to make sure that SUPPLY OF DOCTORS STAYS LOW and DEMAND STAYS HIGH. Why not unregulate the number of residencies in the US and create more spots in medical schools --->More doctors practicing--->Lesser hours during residency (no crazy killer schedule)--->better waiting times at ER's (afterall it is the EMERGENCY room) --->better healthcare for society. Of course the above logic will also create less income for doctors (they wont be able to rob people anymore because of increased competition), so it will not sit well with you guys, but sure enough this is the model used in the countries ranked 1-36 in the world, all ahead of US in healthcare.....

By the way I am not a lawyer or ever plan on being one! Just pissed at doctors because of personal experience....

[kappasigMD41]

Originally Posted by zipkosucks

Sure, lawyers are bloodsucking parasites. But when a doctor charges me 200 bucks to put a band aid on my little cut, I think of him as a bloodsucking parasite too!!!!!

When I go to emergency room and they make me sit for an average of 3 hrs (US overall) FOR AN EMERGENCY, and then charge me 2000 bucks later on for the checkup, I think some doctor is a bloodsucking parasite. (Afterall, it is doctors who own hospitals and are on the board of trustees)

After working for 8 years, a doctor becomes a millionaire, and a construction worker is still making 50 grand a year after 20 years of work. Now, if the doctor operates on his left knee instead of right knee.........and charges him 5000 bucks, he is a bloodsucking parasite and DESERVES to get his ass sued.

When a doctor performs "arthritic clean up" at someone's knee knowing fully well that this is not going to change anything for the patient and then charges thousands, he is a bloodsucking parasite.

By the way, our American healthcare system is ranked 37th in the world by World Health Organization. Probably because a minor surgery in US costs at least a few thousand dollars and I can get the same surgery done in UK, France, Germany, Canada, or Italy for a few hundred dollars by BETTER DOCTORS (top ten in the world in healthcare). When I am paying those thousand bucks, I am thinking the doctor is a bloodsucking parasite.

You get the idea how subjective this can be

On one hand doctors charge exorbitant amounts of money for what they do, on the other they think that they are doing a favor to society by working....The number of residencies is being kept fixed for new grads by AMA, to make sure that SUPPLY OF DOCTORS STAYS LOW and DEMAND STAYS HIGH. Why not unregulate the number of residencies in the US and create more spots in medical schools --->More doctors practicing--->Lesser hours during residency (no crazy killer schedule)--->better waiting times at ER's (afterall it is the EMERGENCY room) --->better healthcare for society. Of course the above logic will also create less income for doctors (they wont be able to rob people anymore because of increased competition), so it will not sit well with you guys, but sure enough this is the model used in the countries ranked 1-36 in the world, all ahead of US in healthcare.....

By the way I am not a lawyer or ever plan on being one! Just pissed at doctors because of personal experience....

There is so much misinformation and plain stupidity in this post that I really don't have time to respond to all of it. I will try to eventually, but it's going to take a while to sort through all your BS. One thing I can tell you, as I once worked in an ER, is that over 90% of the people come in for NON-emergent reasons. If they would go see their PCP like they are supposed to, the waiting times would be much more reasonable. You have some extremely ill-informed views.

[Trajan]

There is tremendous variation in what people do with an MD or a JD, so comparing the two careers is an exercise in futility. However, the differences between legal and medical education are much clearer. The classroom years of medical school are 90% memorization. Law school is at most 10% memorization. Personally, I find the intellectual side of legal education to be much more interesting than the rote memorization of med school, but medicine is what I'd rather do once my classroom education is done, so med school is where I will stay.

I'd bet that top law students would have a hard time in med school, and med school preclinical eggheads would die in law school.

One last thing: most of the best opportunities in law go to graduates of 14 law schools (and within the top 14 there is even a hierarchy). Obviously it is good to go to an elite medical school. However, a top med student at an average medical school will have a much easier chance of getting a very competitive or prestigious residency than the valedictorian of an average law firm will have at getting a top legal job or judicial clerkship.

[zipkosucks]

Kappa sig said:

and plain stupidity in this post

sorry *****hole, if you didnt like what I said, then respond to it in a civilized manner. If you will attack me personally , then F.U.

[kappasigMD41]

Originally Posted by zipkosucks

Kappa sig said:


sorry *****hole, if you didnt like what I said, then respond to it in a civilized manner. If you will attack me personally , then F.U.

Your post was full of stupidity, and I simply pointed this out. That is not uncivilized, just to-the-point. I am sorry if I insulted your rather sensitive nature, but there is really no other way to describe some of the stuff in your misguided post. You are the one with the personal attack- name calling and using expletives. If you reread my first post you will see that I made no personal references to you, I don't even know you. I was commenting on some the moronic things you wrote.

[zipkosucks]

Kappa sig says:

all your BS

One thing I can tell you

You have some

Maybe I dont understand people full of themselves too well, but it does seem like you are making "personal references" to me.....unless of course you were talking to your mom's dick when you said the above.

[mshheaddoc]

ok ... unlike most of the posters here ... not in med school .. yet. But I feel your dilemma, hence why I shall post.

First off, sorry kids but most of you "doctors" have a skewed view of the profession. yes alot of lawyers are sleezebags, yes their fees are not regulated to the extent of doctors (which I would LOVE to get in a chat about that ... how medicine is one of the few "regulated" fields!! ) and yes most lawyers surprisingly do NOT make the mad $$$$$ once made due to the saturation of the market.

But with that said, I do agree that law and medicine are two different professions, yes ... but depending on what you want to do in the legal profession, depends on how much effort you want to put in it. If you have already invested time into medical school, why don't you want to go back? Is it just your age? Do you have guarateed "in" to go back? Why did you want to go in the first place? Will your illness effect your return? (chronic? reoccurance, etc) You need to look at yourself and question these things. It will help you understand yourself.

I don't think age should really play a factor because I know plenty of older non-trad students who are going back to be a doctor. I do not know your age so I do not want to generalize, but there are plenty of ages among the group. If you want to do medicine, then you should, but it sounds to me as if you aren't sure if you want it anymore.

I myself have become interested in healthcare policy and would like to go back to law school after residency (which I won't get out of till age of 35 at least). I have contemplated NOT going to medical school and just doing the JD. Maybe I will find a good program with a MD/JD (i'm about 2 years away from applying to med schools) ... maybe you could find a program like that ... but its all about what you want to do. I am still not sure about the JD and I want to do the MD but then in the back of my head, I want a family, I want a husband and 3 kids, and I want a life. But for my goals ... I will not let my family goals interfere with my career aspirations, nor vice versa. I will make it work, so many others do. I can't believe how many married people with kids go back to med school out there and seeing them gives me the will to go on.

Well ... my ramblings may not be coherent ... but I wish you the best. I think you need to look deep inside yourself and see what "YOU" really want. Plus do your research on the law profession ... market is REALLY saturated in some areas ... unless you concentrate in the less sparse areas which are naturally more competitive. The professions are totally different and totally not what some people realize they are getting into.

I wish you and let us know how things turn out!

[kappasigMD41]

Originally Posted by zipkosucks

Kappa sig says:






Maybe I dont understand people full of themselves too well, but it does seem like you are making "personal references" to me.....unless of course you were talking to your mom's dick when you said the above.

I haven't heard someone talk like that since high school. So, I have changed my mind. You are a moron. Now, that is personal. I have come down to your level and have taken part in the name-calling. Thanks for proving the depth of your stupidity. Have a nice day.

[Tophies80]

Originally Posted by kappasigMD41

I haven't heard someone talk like that since high school. So, I have changed my mind. You are a moron. Now, that is personal. I have come down to your level and have taken part in the name-calling. Thanks for proving the depth of your stupidity. Have a nice day.

"zipkosucks" i won't attack you, but i must say you are poorly informed. in some cases dr's are on the board of directors in HMOs or in hospitals, but not all of them are dr's and usually if they are dr's, they don't practice much anymore. in any field there are people out to make money....but usually you have to have a real love for the medical profession to stick with it, and be good at it. In the medical area, to whomdo you think your money is lost to? businessmen and insurance companies...I hope you realize that your insurance company pays the doctor whatever they feel like. If your office procedure costs 1000 dollars, you think your insurance company pays the dr 1000? hell no. they get half that if they are lucky. Both my sister and father are surgeons. When my sister was a resident, she worked on average 90 hours a week, for a 38K salary. A good attorney(and good speciality) makes a **** load more than a doctor. They charge thousands just to look over documents.

You definately work a lot harder and longer for your money being a doctor. Like I said, there are always bad seeds in every profession, some dr's do unecessary surgies to make money, and treat patients like a commidity.
My fiancee is in law school..seeing my sister in med school and my fiancee in law school.....there is definately 100x more stress in med school, you have to remember everything. If you are in an Ivy league law school, then its a little more stressful than the average law school.

If you are intelligent, you are intelligent.....so if you can make it into an Ivy league law school, you could probably do well in med school, if you have the stamina.

Generally, med school is much harder, and I dont think law students could hack it. As far as med students in law, i don't think its a matter of could they handle law school, they just wouldnt want to.

like i said, there will always be exceptions...i have friends that use to drink 5x a week, barely studied, and aced all their exams and all 3 steps of their boards.

As far as picking a profession, do what you love and feel comfortable doing.

[Law2Doc]

Originally Posted by fun8stuff

it seems that the average physician makes almost double the average lawyer....

but of course, the training for medicine is harder and longer... and it should be more than just about money

This is only sort of true. The average for lawyers is quite low, because there are many many more law schools and each has many many more seats. Some of the law schools out there are not particularly good in terms of career path, and there are plenty of unemployed lawyers. But if you took the numerical equivalent (i.e. the number of lawyers that would fill the current number of allo seats, from the top law schools down), I suspect the law average would actually be higher. Also bear in mind that folks in law start earning after three years out of school while physicians have 4 years of school and then 3+ years of low salary training, so the time value of money ought to be considered.
That being said, I would be the first to admit that law is not for everyone, and so like medicine, it is something you ought to research carefully before jumping into. There are those that enjoy it and those that don't.
Bear in mind that the lawyers you see advertising on TV, or those who sue doctors constitute a very small (but vocal) minority in the legal profession. Most lawyers actually do no form of litigation at all, the largest components of the legal profession being government and corporate/transactional. Also bear in mind that as a physician, you will at some point in your career be sued, and you (or your hospital or insurance carrier) will need to hire a lawyer to keep you out of the fire. Best to save your hostility for the one suing you, and not the profession in toto.

[fun8stuff]

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

This is only sort of true. The average for lawyers is quite low, because there are many many more law schools and each has many many more seats. Some of the law schools out there are not particularly good in terms of career path, and there are plenty of unemployed lawyers. But if you took the numerical equivalent (i.e. the number of lawyers that would fill the current number of allo seats, from the top law schools down), I suspect the law average would actually be higher. Also bear in mind that folks in law start earning after three years out of school while physicians have 4 years of school and then 3+ years of low salary training, so the time value of money ought to be considered.
That being said, I would be the first to admit that law is not for everyone, and so like medicine, it is something you ought to research carefully before jumping into. There are those that enjoy it and those that don't.
Bear in mind that the lawyers you see advertising on TV, or those who sue doctors constitute a very small (but vocal) minority in the legal profession. Most lawyers actually do no form of litigation at all, the largest components of the legal profession being government and corporate/transactional. Also bear in mind that as a physician, you will at some point in your career be sued, and you (or your hospital or insurance carrier) will need to hire a lawyer to keep you out of the fire. Best to save your hostility for the one suing you, and not the profession in toto.

i think that post was from a while ago. has anyone posted this article yet? at the end it does a comparison between law and medicine and makes the conclusion that medicine is a better inveestment than the law degree...

http://www.brynmawr.edu/healthpro/do...ysdeb2004t.pdf

"A law education does begin to pay returns sooner than a medical education, but medicine is still a better investment at any reasonable discount rate. Figure 21 shows net present values for medical education and legal education, using various discount rates. Only at the highest discount
rate do returns for law surpass returns for medicine.15"

[deuist]

Originally Posted by mshheaddoc

I myself have become interested in healthcare policy and would like to go back to law school after residency (which I won't get out of till age of 35 at least). I have contemplated NOT going to medical school and just doing the JD. Maybe I will find a good program with a MD/JD (i'm about 2 years away from applying to med schools) ... maybe you could find a program like that ... but its all about what you want to do.

You describe me perfectly. I originally wanted to an MD/JD. However, since I'm in the military, I cannot pursue anything other than medicine for the next 11 or so years. I've thought about going to law school later in my life (around 40). I remember talking to Law2Doc some time ago about physicians who go to law school for intellectual curiosity. Luckily, he said that I'm not alone with that idea.

[SoCuteMD]

I would like to attend law school eventually. Of course, I could take the route some people take. The doctor's wives I know seem to think they are doctors and the lawyer's wives seem to think they are lawyers. So, maybe I'll just marry a lawyer and consider myself one .

[Sainttpk]

Originally Posted by Tophies80

Generally, med school is much harder, and I dont think law students could hack it. As far as med students in law, i don't think its a matter of could they handle law school, they just wouldnt want to.

like i said, there will always be exceptions...i have friends that use to drink 5x a week, barely studied, and aced all their exams and all 3 steps of their boards.

As far as picking a profession, do what you love and feel comfortable doing.

As someone who went to law school, and now in the process of applying to medical school I do not think you can even begin comparing law and medicine. Its like comparing apples, and grapefruit!!! They are totally different. Its all relative as to what is easy and what is hard.

If you choose any career, do it for the right reasons. In the end you will be alot more fulfilled by choosing a profession that you enjoy. There are many physicians and attorneys who do not enjoy their job, and alot of this has to do with the fact that many young people never take the proper time out to investigate what a physician or attorney does on a day to day basis.

If you base your decision soley on financial rewards then you may be in for a tough time. There are other careers out there besides law and medicine, maybe neither is correct for you? Just something to think about.

[darrvao777]

Field that must be cool: business

Imagine posting on a business board and saying, "I want to get filthy rich!" and being praised for it and not getting flamed

[2Sexy4MedSchool]

My wife is married to a lawyer and she says she feels like a chew toy most of the time.

[JohnUC33]

Originally Posted by zipkosucks

Sure, lawyers are bloodsucking parasites. But when a doctor charges me 200 bucks to put a band aid on my little cut, I think of him as a bloodsucking parasite too!!!!!

When I go to emergency room and they make me sit for an average of 3 hrs (US overall) FOR AN EMERGENCY, and then charge me 2000 bucks later on for the checkup, I think some doctor is a bloodsucking parasite. (Afterall, it is doctors who own hospitals and are on the board of trustees)

After working for 8 years, a doctor becomes a millionaire, and a construction worker is still making 50 grand a year after 20 years of work. Now, if the doctor operates on his left knee instead of right knee.........and charges him 5000 bucks, he is a bloodsucking parasite and DESERVES to get his ass sued.

When a doctor performs "arthritic clean up" at someone's knee knowing fully well that this is not going to change anything for the patient and then charges thousands, he is a bloodsucking parasite.

By the way, our American healthcare system is ranked 37th in the world by World Health Organization. Probably because a minor surgery in US costs at least a few thousand dollars and I can get the same surgery done in UK, France, Germany, Canada, or Italy for a few hundred dollars by BETTER DOCTORS (top ten in the world in healthcare). When I am paying those thousand bucks, I am thinking the doctor is a bloodsucking parasite.

You get the idea how subjective this can be

On one hand doctors charge exorbitant amounts of money for what they do, on the other they think that they are doing a favor to society by working....The number of residencies is being kept fixed for new grads by AMA, to make sure that SUPPLY OF DOCTORS STAYS LOW and DEMAND STAYS HIGH. Why not unregulate the number of residencies in the US and create more spots in medical schools --->More doctors practicing--->Lesser hours during residency (no crazy killer schedule)--->better waiting times at ER's (afterall it is the EMERGENCY room) --->better healthcare for society. Of course the above logic will also create less income for doctors (they wont be able to rob people anymore because of increased competition), so it will not sit well with you guys, but sure enough this is the model used in the countries ranked 1-36 in the world, all ahead of US in healthcare.....

By the way I am not a lawyer or ever plan on being one! Just pissed at doctors because of personal experience....

From working in an E.R., the main reason for the long wait times is due to the butt-load of paper work doctors and nurses have to fill out for each patient. Why do they have to fill these papers out? = to keep from getting sued by greedy lawyers. So the next time you wait for hours at an E.R., be sure to attribute that to greedy lawyers and insurance companies.

[Law2Doc]

Originally Posted by 2Sexy4MedSchool

My wife is married to a lawyer and she says she feels like a chew toy most of the time.

Does this reflect the profession or your night time proclivities?

[2Sexy4MedSchool]

Originally Posted by 2Sexy4MedSchool

My wife is married to a lawyer and she says she feels like a chew toy most of the time.

Originally Posted by Law2Doc

Does this reflect the profession or your night time proclivities?

Solely the profession, I'm afraid; we ain't doin' no nibblin' after dark ever since the dogs started to get upset at the onset of hanky-panky. (Think the neurotic weimeraner in Best of Show and you've got the right idea.)

Actually, I have to admit: over the past eight years some of her touchy-feelie has rubbed off on me while she has adopted many of my argumentative tendencies. There's no question she got the short end of that stick.

[Erica504]

I know this is a different direction from the previous arguments over the merits of lawyers, but...

I am wondering if anyone reading this thread is actually committed to the MD/JD path and is in the process of applying, or if anyone is currently in the program now. I am applying, and finding that even schools that advertise the program generally don't realize their school has it, nor does anyone seem to know details about it. I'm trying to devise the best plan for fitting in the law school, and this is my ideal path: First two years med school, then next three years law school with a rotation of med 3 each summer, then finish with my last rotations.

Any thoughts? Especially if anyone is at UNC or Ohio State! Thanks!

[deuist]

I don't know about the two schools that you listed, but both UFlorida and Baylor have set time limes and contact information for their MD/JD programs. However, I didn't hear about their systems until I interviewed. Also, some universities will allow you to apply while you are in medical school, saving you the pressure of making a decision now.