USMLE World Scores and Step II Scores

HalladayWeekend said:

Virtually all of the papers that you quote correlate exam performance in residency and beyond with Step 1 and Step 2 scores. This is rather obvious- good test takers do well on tests. I'd like to see more data about linking USMLE scores to orthopedic surgery skill. The NBME itself doesn't recommend using scores other than for Pass/Fail.

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...You would like to see how sitting in front of a computer for 8 hours correlates with with surgery skill... like dexterity and hand eye coordination? It doesn't. However, I think it would correlate with ability to problem solve and work ethic. The manual task of surgery can be learned.

RUcereus said:

'Anecdotal claim that I know 12 people that scored in the 220s and matched MGH peds'

No but for real, my point is he has the scores to make him competitive in that area. Hell, those scores are competitive for most specialties. He is in the top 300 applicants for board scores when it comes to peds. I wasn't saying peds was uncompetitive on the west coast, just that the applicant IS competitive for those programs. Also, his first post mentioned nothing about where he wanted to go, simply that he wanted peds, which is fair to say is a less competitive specialty to match.

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300 people just about fills up the top 15 programs... that's a lot of people to compete with.

But I get what you're saying and I'm certainly not complaining about my scores, just not looking forward to the application process

PS: She. For future reference, in peds, it's safer to assume female, you'll be right 85% of the time

For writing purposes, it is correct to just pick a gender and go with it....or write "he or she" over and over again. Assuming is a dangerous thing.

Slade said:

300 people just about fills up the top 15 programs... that's a lot of people to compete with.

But I get what you're saying and I'm certainly not complaining about my scores, just not looking forward to the application process

PS: She. For future reference, in peds, it's safer to assume female, you'll be right 85% of the time

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My apologies, ma'am. Good luck

I don't want to take any positions on any arguments, but I can tell you anecdotally:

At my school there is at least one (reasonably smart) fellowship director who believed that the two-digit score was a percentile until I explained to him this year that it wasn't...

So to say that the two digit score doesn't matter; well - for some people I guess it might.

That said, I'm coming up on Step 2 CK in a week:

Step 1: 243
NBME 1: 230 (two weeks out)
NBME 2 : 221 (one week out)
UW% first time: ~56%
UW% second time: ~80%
UWSA: Taking today...

Wish me luck today. All of these step 2 scores are pretty awful compared with the step 1 score. But whatever.

quepatho said:

I don't want to take any positions on any arguments, but I can tell you anecdotally:

At my school there is at least one (reasonably smart) fellowship director who believed that the two-digit score was a percentile until I explained to him this year that it wasn't...

So to say that the two digit score doesn't matter; well - for some people I guess it might.

That said, I'm coming up on Step 2 CK in a week:

Step 1: 243
NBME 1: 230 (two weeks out)
NBME 2 : 221 (one week out)
UW% first time: ~56%
UW% second time: ~80%
UWSA: Taking today...

Wish me luck today. All of these step 2 scores are pretty awful compared with the step 1 score. But whatever.

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goodluck with uwsa ....... when are you taking the beast ???

Ummm the 2 digit doesnt matter because it isnt bloody reported.

Taking it on the 31st. Thanks for the well-wishes

quepatho said:

I don't want to take any positions on any arguments, but I can tell you anecdotally:

At my school there is at least one (reasonably smart) fellowship director who believed that the two-digit score was a percentile until I explained to him this year that it wasn't...

So to say that the two digit score doesn't matter; well - for some people I guess it might.

That said, I'm coming up on Step 2 CK in a week:

Step 1: 243
NBME 1: 230 (two weeks out)
NBME 2 : 221 (one week out)
UW% first time: ~56%
UW% second time: ~80%
UWSA: Taking today...

Wish me luck today. All of these step 2 scores are pretty awful compared with the step 1 score. But whatever.

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I took the UWSA two days ago and must say that it seems NBME form 2 is a beast. I improved 14 points from the NBME form 2 to the UWSA and I could have prob done a lot better on the UWSA if i didn't get pscyhed out so much but answer options and nerves. Good luck on UWSA, i'm sure you will be happy with your results.

sylvanthus said:

Ummm the 2 digit doesnt matter because it isnt bloody reported.

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A. Maybe they don't report them for Step 2 now, but I def have a 2-digit score for Step 1 which I took LAST YEAR. My friend took Step 2 just a few months ago and got a two-digit score. So it's not exactly a totally *irrelevant topic (even if it's pointless to talk about it since, you know, not gonna make a difference as to what is reported).

B. Psychologically, I could see why someone would think that a candidate WITH a 233/99 who is also applying with others who are 245/99, 250/99, 260/99 would be "stronger" with the 99 (assuming the PD thinks the 99 is a percentile). The PD probably thinks there is no big difference between those scores since, in his eyes, they're all "99th percentile".

versus

The scenario where the person with the 233 applies with a 245, 250, and 260.

Yes, it is pointless to discuss it, but it is not irrelevant.

Path Fiend said:

I took the UWSA two days ago and must say that it seems NBME form 2 is a beast. I improved 14 points from the NBME form 2 to the UWSA and I could have prob done a lot better on the UWSA if i didn't get pscyhed out so much but answer options and nerves. Good luck on UWSA, i'm sure you will be happy with your results.

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Thank you so much for that feedback! I've been wondering like crazy if I just lost 40 IQ points by accident for NBME 2. I'm glad to hear it's not just me.

Step 1: 243

NBME 1: 230 (two weeks out)
NBME 2 : 221 (1.5 week out)
UW% first time: ~56%
UW% second time: ~80%
UWSA (one week out): 242

Real Deal on 8/31.

Debating taking NBME 4 or not.

quepatho said:

Step 1: 243

NBME 1: 230 (two weeks out)
NBME 2 : 221 (1.5 week out)
UW% first time: ~56%
UW% second time: ~80%
UWSA (one week out): 242

Real Deal on 8/31.

Debating taking NBME 4 or not.

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would say take it ...... nbme 4 is also said to be a good predictor plus anyways gives you extra qs and practice and a similar concept might be tested if you get lucky......

goodlcuk ..........

NBME 4 was the closest to my score....and I took it a month before my exam.

Guys, I took the test on Aug 9th and this wait is killing me. Is there anyway possible the grades will come out before sept 26th. I had the new format by the way. I had a bad experience and felt the test was hard. Anybody else in my boat?

3rdyear said:

I had a bad experience and felt the test was hard. Anybody else in my boat?

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Almost everyone is in your boat............ and that boat is only going to dock after Sept 26th.

quepatho said:

Thank you so much for that feedback! I've been wondering like crazy if I just lost 40 IQ points by accident for NBME 2. I'm glad to hear it's not just me.

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Just look at my stats:

NBME 2: 219
UWSA: 256
Step 2CK: 265

NBMEs are terrible for Step 2 (in my experience). Go with UWSA.

neulite30 said:

Just look at my stats:

NBME 2: 219
UWSA: 256
Step 2CK: 265

NBMEs are terrible for Step 2 (in my experience). Go with UWSA.

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How much time was in between your NBME 2 and UWSA ?

neulite30 said:

Just look at my stats:

NBME 2: 219
UWSA: 256
Step 2CK: 265

NBMEs are terrible for Step 2 (in my experience). Go with UWSA.

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Also what was your main resource other than timing between ur NBME and UWSA and actual exam. Thanks

NBME 2 isn't that good. NBME 4 is more accurate usually.

MossPoh said:

NBME 4 was the closest to my score....and I took it a month before my exam.

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I think I'll take it. But...shouldn't it NOT be close to your score if you took it a month in advance?

neulite30 said:

Just look at my stats:

NBME 2: 219
UWSA: 256
Step 2CK: 265

NBMEs are terrible for Step 2 (in my experience). Go with UWSA.

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I would be completely and utterly ecstatic with a 250 or 260 score.

3rdyear said:

I had the new format by the way. I had a bad experience and felt the test was hard.

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Yeah, I felt pretty bad coming out of the test too, but I ended up with a 242. It was lower than what I was expecting, but good enough considering how I felt after the test (and the fact that my Step I score was a much bigger disappointment).

shan564 said:

Yeah, I felt pretty bad coming out of the test too, but I ended up with a 242. It was lower than what I was expecting, but good enough considering how I felt after the test (and the fact that my Step I score was a much bigger disappointment).

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Sorry for being such a n00b, but what exactly is difference for the "new format"? I saw the announcement that there are 8 sections with something like 45 questions each...

But...how was this different than before?

quepatho said:

Sorry for being such a n00b, but what exactly is difference for the "new format"? I saw the announcement that there are 8 sections with something like 45 questions each...

But...how was this different than before?

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The new format has more total questions, and anywhere between 36 and 50 questions per section (in the "old" format, which I took all the way back in late July, every section had 42 or 44 questions).

Some people think that the questions themselves may have also changed, but there's no official indication that this is anything more than just the annual updates that the NBME does anyway.

shan564 said:

The new format has more total questions, and anywhere between 36 and 50 questions per section (in the "old" format, which I took all the way back in late July, every section had 42 or 44 questions).

Some people think that the questions themselves may have also changed, but there's no official indication that this is anything more than just the annual updates that the NBME does anyway.

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From what I gathered there are FEWER total questions and some blocks with as few as 42 questions.

Those are the ones which include the reading comprehension questions in which you have to analyze a research thesis or a pharmaceutical drug ad.

Those questions are new in style. Half of them are the same biostat concepts but the other half as just wierd questions...

Was one of the 7/30 batch that got their scores last Wednesday.

I studied for a month during an easy rotation (Primary Care) and finished about 1 1/4 passes through UW (did not quite finish during MS3).
UW (1st pass): ~60%
UW (2nd pass): ~80%

I also read MTB and Secrets once each. Took UWSA 1 week before the exam (245) with no NBMEs.

Step 2: 244, so I guess the UWSA was fairly accurate. I came out of the test feeling better than when I walked out of Step 1, but not as confident as when I had taken the UWSA. I made a significant jump from Step 1 though (218, had some personal stuff that distracted me from studying), did fairly well during MS3 (H in IM, Family, HP in everything else).

My advice: same as everyone else. UWorld (at least twice) and Secrets. MTB wasn't that helpful for me personally (too simple, found a bunch of errors). UWSA is ok, kinda wish I had time for NBME 4 to compare, but oh well. Good luck to anyone taking it soon!

aznb0y129 said:

Was one of the 7/30 batch that got their scores last Wednesday.

I studied for a month during an easy rotation (Primary Care) and finished about 1 1/4 passes through UW (did not quite finish during MS3).
UW (1st pass): ~60%
UW (2nd pass): ~80%

I also read MTB and Secrets once each. Took UWSA 1 week before the exam (245) with no NBMEs.

Step 2: 244, so I guess the UWSA was fairly accurate. I came out of the test feeling better than when I walked out of Step 1, but not as confident as when I had taken the UWSA. I made a significant jump from Step 1 though (218, had some personal stuff that distracted me from studying), did fairly well during MS3 (H in IM, Family, HP in everything else).

My advice: same as everyone else. UWorld (at least twice) and Secrets. MTB wasn't that helpful for me personally (too simple, found a bunch of errors). UWSA is ok, kinda wish I had time for NBME 4 to compare, but oh well. Good luck to anyone taking it soon!

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Why do you say UWSA is only 'ok' when it predicted your score so well?

UWSA 259 (1 week out)
Step 2 CK 267

I felt awful coming out of the exam.

PM if you have questions

quepatho said:

A. Maybe they don't report them for Step 2 now, but I def have a 2-digit score for Step 1 which I took LAST YEAR. My friend took Step 2 just a few months ago and got a two-digit score. So it's not exactly a totally *irrelevant topic (even if it's pointless to talk about it since, you know, not gonna make a difference as to what is reported).

B. Psychologically, I could see why someone would think that a candidate WITH a 233/99 who is also applying with others who are 245/99, 250/99, 260/99 would be "stronger" with the 99 (assuming the PD thinks the 99 is a percentile). The PD probably thinks there is no big difference between those scores since, in his eyes, they're all "99th percentile".

versus

The scenario where the person with the 233 applies with a 245, 250, and 260.

Yes, it is pointless to discuss it, but it is not irrelevant.

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Just to clarify: The two digit score is still being reported to test takers (This the reason you got it), but is NOT being reported along with your residency application.

quepatho said:

I think I'll take it. But...shouldn't it NOT be close to your score if you took it a month in advance?



I would be completely and utterly ecstatic with a 250 or 260 score.

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I studied ungodly hard throughout the year. When you get in the high 250s+ range, it takes a lot more energy to increase your score. I got a 268 on the first practice exam. All I could do afterwards was eliminate variability and weaknesses. I also was on rotations the entire time until a week-ish before my exam.

Step 1: 245
Did Kaplan Qbank and UW throughout 3rd year
Kaplan Diagnostic exam 10 weeks out 68%
UWORLD average first pass 71%
second 83%
NBME 1: 7 weeks out 239
UWSA : 2 weeks out 240 (messed up the first block due to timing...went 63,77,75,79..so I think it should have been higher)
NBME 4: 1 week out 251
USMLE Free questions: 88%
NBME 2: 2 days out 256
Just did UW and read Secrets in the last week

Step 2 CK (7/31/2012) 257 /86

shan564 said:

The new format has more total questions, and anywhere between 36 and 50 questions per section (in the "old" format, which I took all the way back in late July, every section had 42 or 44 questions).

Some people think that the questions themselves may have also changed, but there's no official indication that this is anything more than just the annual updates that the NBME does anyway.

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This is weird, I took my exam last week and my exam totally seemed like the "old" exam. In otherwords blocks of 45/44/43 q's NO block had 20/30 q's.

Does that even matter anymore?

Oh, yea. I took the exam in North America, not sure if that even matters?

septoplasty said:

This is weird, I took my exam last week and my exam totally seemed like the "old" exam. In otherwords blocks of 45/44/43 q's NO block had 20/30 q's.

Does that even matter anymore?

Oh, yea. I took the exam in North America, not sure if that even matters?

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i took ck on friday in the US. i had one set with 41, one with 44, and the rest were 45 questions. so, i also didn't have any with 20-30 question sets, unless you count the survey at the end of the exam about the test center experience as a block of questions...or maybe the introduction block that gives directions about how to use the CBT format. it does have medically relevant sample questions, which i guess may confuse people.

anyway, on topic for everyone else: i did some of uworld and usmleRX during third year, in addition to using casefiles and pretest for shelf exams (never really finished a whole casefiles or pretest book).

after my last shelf exam, i actually still had about 1000 questions of uworld and about 200 questions in RX still unused. i finished the remaining 1000 unused questions of uworld in the week following my last shelf, and then did the rest of RX during the first part of my radiology elective, which I had next. my first pass through uworld was at 66% with mostly low 70s to high 80s for the last 20-30 blocks. i always do timed, random blocks of 44, not separated by subject. my RX percentage was 72% when i finished it.

after i had finished RX and uworld one time through, i reset uworld and went through it again. the second time through, i paid more attention to the explanations than the answers. ended with 80% correct (if that matters). by the time the test came around, i could really only remember whatever i had seen on my second pass of uworld and pretty much everything else i had learned during third year or earlier in my dedicated study time was already gone.

the exam was pretty hard. when i took step 1, i finished each set with about 10 minutes to spare (except my first block that was a super beast). on CK, i only had spare time when i finished on two sets. having said that, i didn't have any really bizarre questions on ck. i remember having what seemed like an mcat physics question on step 1, but i didn't have anything like that on ck. i got 247 on uwsa two weeks ago, and flagged about as many questions per set as i did on CK on friday, so i'm hoping i can at least get that high on CK. i'm glad i have application season to keep me busy in this next month while i wait for scores.

quepatho said:

Thank you so much for that feedback! I've been wondering like crazy if I just lost 40 IQ points by accident for NBME 2. I'm glad to hear it's not just me.

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Yea just to give you an idea of my step 2 experience so far:

NBME 2: 218
USWA: 232
NBME 4: 246
Overall UW%: 71
Hurricane Isaac: WTF? yea I'm from NOLA
8/31: The Real Deal

I would take form 4 especially if you been studying this long. I was nervous about taking another one 4 days before the real deal but oh well I took a shot and it boosted my confidence a lot.

Path Fiend said:

Yea just to give you an idea of my step 2 experience so far:

NBME 2: 218
USWA: 232
NBME 4: 246
Overall UW%: 71
Hurricane Isaac: WTF? yea I'm from NOLA
8/31: The Real Deal

I would take form 4 especially if you been studying this long. I was nervous about taking another one 4 days before the real deal but oh well I took a shot and it boosted my confidence a lot.

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What were your time gaps between those assessments?

USWA I took last thursday, NBME 4 I took today, and I believe NBME 2 I took a week before I took the USWA one.

3rdyear said:

Guys, I took the test on Aug 9th and this wait is killing me. Is there anyway possible the grades will come out before sept 26th. I had the new format by the way. I had a bad experience and felt the test was hard. Anybody else in my boat?

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I'd say you have a very good chance of getting you score before the 26th. I took mine on Aug 1 and got my score 3 weeks exactly from that day.

AlisonNoelle said:

I'd say you have a very good chance of getting you score before the 26th. I took mine on Aug 1 and got my score 3 weeks exactly from that day.

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You're test center may not have adopted the new format which is why you were not required to wait until sept. 26. I took my exam on Aug. 2 and have yet to receive my score. I think it's test center dependent.

I think the wording is important in the USMLE.org site, it states it regularly takes 4 weeks for scores to get back but this time around it may take between 4 weeks and September 26 to get your scores. It's a time window with the upper limit being Sept, 26. We shall see.

Took mine Aug 2nd and the scheduling permit link is still there so I'm not holding my breath for tomorrow. Would not be surprised if it took until the 26th, as stated in the bulletin.

Took the sob today. Way worse than the step 1. In honesty, it was an absolute disaster
. Bitch

cbtk18 said:

Took the sob today. Way worse than the step 1. In honesty, it was an absolute disaster
. Bitch

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Got mine in 15 days. Any suggestions other than norm (UW+MTB)??

TUBW25 said:

You're test center may not have adopted the new format which is why you were not required to wait until sept. 26. I took my exam on Aug. 2 and have yet to receive my score. I think it's test center dependent.

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Actually my test center DID have the new format. My sections ranged from 42-46 questions. I didn't think the new format was center dependent.

TUBW25 said:

You're test center may not have adopted the new format which is why you were not required to wait until sept. 26. I took my exam on Aug. 2 and have yet to receive my score. I think it's test center dependent.

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Any evidence to suggest what you've said? I'm all ears..

But imo, I dont think the result release date is dependent on the testing centre, otherwise people would be sprawling to "hidden" places, where they could get results faster. Which would also mean, I would get my results earlier than Sept 26th even though I took CK 2nd last week of Aug, but at a testing centre that didn't seem to have the "updated" style.

septoplasty said:

Any evidence to suggest what you've said? I'm all ears..

But imo, I dont think the result release date is dependent on the testing centre, otherwise people would be sprawling to "hidden" places, where they could get results faster. Which would also mean, I would get my results earlier than Sept 26th even though I took CK 2nd last week of Aug, but at a testing centre that didn't seem to have the "updated" style.

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You'e misinterpreting what I said. You have to read the bulletin on the USMLE website to understand what I mean. It states that some test centers will be slower to adopt the new format than others so when I say "test center dependent", I mean that some people who took the exam in August and are getting their results early may not have taken the new format. You would know you had the new format because there was a warning before each section informing one that the number of items per section was varied.

septoplasty said:

Any evidence to suggest what you've said? I'm all ears..

But imo, I dont think the result release date is dependent on the testing centre, otherwise people would be sprawling to "hidden" places, where they could get results faster. Which would also mean, I would get my results earlier than Sept 26th even though I took CK 2nd last week of Aug, but at a testing centre that didn't seem to have the "updated" style.

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I actually have a friend who called a bunch of test centers and bugged them until he got an answer from one center saying they weren't updating until beginning of Sept so he took his test there....but we shall see if his plan actually worked and he gets it back faster.

quepatho said:

Step 1: 243

NBME 1: 230 (two weeks out)
NBME 2 : 221 (1.5 week out)
UW% first time: ~56%
UW% second time: ~80%
UWSA (one week out): 242
NBME 4: 228 (2 days out)

Real Deal on 8/31.

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Honestly, on the last couple of tests I've been struggling to pay even the *tiniest* bit of attention. I really just honestly have a hard time caring.

If step 2 isn't as good as step 1, I guess I just won't release.

I'll let you know what a whole bunch of not-caring + these scores on practice tests add up to after I take it (and when I get my score a million years from now)

quepatho said:

Honestly, on the last couple of tests I've been struggling to pay even the *tiniest* bit of attention. I really just honestly have a hard time caring.

If step 2 isn't as good as step 1, I guess I just won't release.

I'll let you know what a whole bunch of not-caring + these scores on practice tests add up to after I take it (and when I get my score a million years from now)

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UWSA is a good predictor!!!

Take it easy. You got today to read. Enjoy your last read. Relax tomorrow. Remember that you scored well on your practice test. You will do well.

Anyone that has taken the UWSA would you mind telling me if the test is timed like the real Step 2? Can I pause, take a longer break in the middle, etc? I just got a new puppy and I'm worried that potty breaks or telling him to stop chewing may interfere...

dally1025 said:

Anyone that has taken the UWSA would you mind telling me if the test is timed like the real Step 2? Can I pause, take a longer break in the middle, etc? I just got a new puppy and I'm worried that potty breaks or telling him to stop chewing may interfere...

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There's no timer in between blocks. Only the blocks are timed.

So you could tell your dog to do his thing for half hour in between blocks and it wont matter!