PharmD=Doctor not professional

[pharmduic]

When I started pharmacy school, I remember thinking that I would be earning a doctorate degree and that when I graduated people would call me "Dr"; however this is not the case. Why is it that pharmacy is the field that earns a doctor degree but we don't even call each other Dr. Some chain pharmacies even call their store managers "Mr" but then the store manager calls the pharmD by their first name. Also, dentists are always called Doctor why aren't pharmDs. I think we would gain more respect if we were called "Dr"

[highlyfavored]

Originally Posted by pharmduic

When I started pharmacy school, I remember thinking that I would be earning a doctorate degree and that when I graduated people would call me "Dr"; however this is not the case. Why is it that pharmacy is the field that earns a doctor degree but we don't even call each other Dr. Some chain pharmacies even call their store managers "Mr" but then the store manager calls the pharmD by their first name. Also, dentists are always called Doctor why aren't pharmDs. I think we would gain more respect if we were called "Dr"

I agree with you. I think if PhD=Dr."X", then pharmD. should too. hmmmm, I wonder if this will ever change. There's so much that goes into just getting into pharm school, not to mention the work all the current students talk about. I think the least ppl could do is refer to pharmDs as Dr. "whoever"

[VCU07]

I agree...I will have gone through 8 yrs of college (BS then PharmD) by the time I am done. I have gone through just as much college as a dentist and if I do a residency some MDs. I believe a major reason PharmDs are not considered Dr is because there are still many BSPharm still out there. Technically, they have not earned a doctoral degree and so are not called Dr by their patients.

[pharmduic]

Originally Posted by animal_lover

I agree with you. I think if PhD=Dr."X", then pharmD. should too. hmmmm, I wonder if this will ever change. There's so much that goes into just getting into pharm school, not to mention the work all the current students talk about. I think the least ppl could do is refer to pharmDs as Dr. "whoever"

I agree. I believe it is important for us as a profession to refer to each other as Dr. "whoever" and that will encourage others to think of pharmDs in a professional way rather than someone who goes to 6 or more years of school to bag people's groceries, condoms, etc. SO PLEASE ENCOURAGE CHAIN PHARMACIES AND EVEN CLINICAL PHARMACISTS TO USE THE TITLE.

[imperial frog]

I've been trying to get my wife to call me Master after I got my degree 6 years ago. The closest she got was Bastard.

[i.<3.pharmacy]

Originally Posted by imperial frog

I've been trying to get my wife to call me Master after I got my degree 6 years ago. The closest she got was Bastard.

That's hilarious.

[highlyfavored]

Originally Posted by imperial frog

I've been trying to get my wife to call me Master after I got my degree 6 years ago. The closest she got was Bastard.

Now that's funny!

[sdn1977]

Goodness...not sure where all of you work. I've been a Pharm.D a looooong time! Yes, most of my patients call me Dr., if they don't feel familiar enough to call me by my first name. This is usually from older folks however who will always use my title no matter how familiar they are with me. Now with colleagues (MD's, DDS's, DMD's, other pharmacists) if they know me, they'll use my first name and I use theirs. If they don't they introduce themselves as Dr So and So to establish their identity. This avoids me having to ask why they want confidential information, their identity if calling in an Rx, etc....My nametag says XXXXX, Pharm.D. and many do not know that the title used is Dr. It worries me this is still an issue 30 years later! Your degree does not matter!!!! it is what you do with it that does. Some of the very best pharmacists I have worked with have had BS degrees and really - when you are working - no one cares (except you perhaps????) The important thing is you get that aminoglycoside dose right or make sure your newly diagnosed asthmatic knows how to use their inhaler - your respect will come with the work you do!

[pharmduic]

Originally Posted by imperial frog

I've been trying to get my wife to call me Master after I got my degree 6 years ago. The closest she got was Bastard.

Well people who have Masters are usually not called Master. So I don't understand your point.

[ForgetMeNot]

Originally Posted by pharmduic

Well people who have Masters are usually not called Master. So I don't understand your point.

Just in case no one else tells you, that was a joke.

[alwaystired]

Originally Posted by pharmduic

I agree. I believe it is important for us as a profession to refer to each other as Dr. "whoever" and that will encourage others to think of pharmDs in a professional way rather than someone who goes to 6 or more years of school to bag people's groceries, condoms, etc. SO PLEASE ENCOURAGE CHAIN PHARMACIES AND EVEN CLINICAL PHARMACISTS TO USE THE TITLE.

I have two opinions on this. 1. Yes, I do wish that we would be referred to as Doctor, once we graduate. Some customers at the pharmacy assume that the pharmacist did "on the job training" and did not go to school, which is ridiculous. I think that the only way this will happen is if we change it ourselves. Of course the pharmacists with the BS will not like this. Hell, I get the opinion that they are bitter about the Pharm. D. anyways. My preceptor told me that the education of the Pharm.D. and the BS are the same and they just changed the name of the degree. Being a brand new Pharm student, i didn't really respond, but maybe today I would be able to. In another 2 years, I better be able to.

My 2nd opinion is this. Yes I want to be called Dr. but I also don't want to be the bi*** that makes everyone do it. I used to work in the emergency room and actually enjoyed the fact that the physcicians let everyone call them by their first names. BUT, they can do that. If they tell people to call them "Jim," people still know that they are the Doctor. If we do not emphasize the Dr. in our title, people assume we didn't even go to school. Maybe if we called ourselves "Dr.", customers and patients would stop treating us like crap and thinking that we are insurance brokers, checkers, or that we learned how to be pharmacists with on the job training.

[pharmduic]

Originally Posted by alwaystired

I have two opinions on this. 1. Yes, I do wish that we would be referred to as Doctor, once we graduate. Some customers at the pharmacy assume that the pharmacist did "on the job training" and did not go to school, which is ridiculous. I think that the only way this will happen is if we change it ourselves. Of course the pharmacists with the BS will not like this. Hell, I get the opinion that they are bitter about the Pharm. D. anyways. My preceptor told me that the education of the Pharm.D. and the BS are the same and they just changed the name of the degree. Being a brand new Pharm student, i didn't really respond, but maybe today I would be able to. In another 2 years, I better be able to.

My 2nd opinion is this. Yes I want to be called Dr. but I also don't want to be the bi*** that makes everyone do it. I used to work in the emergency room and actually enjoyed the fact that the physcicians let everyone call them by their first names. BUT, they can do that. If they tell people to call them "Jim," people still know that they are the Doctor. If we do not emphasize the Dr. in our title, people assume we didn't even go to school. Maybe if we called ourselves "Dr.", customers and patients would stop treating us like crap and thinking that we are insurance brokers, checkers, or that we learned how to be pharmacists with on the job training.

I agree great point. I wish everyone else would do the same.

[pharmduic]

Originally Posted by sdn1977

Goodness...not sure where all of you work. I've been a Pharm.D a looooong time! Yes, most of my patients call me Dr., if they don't feel familiar enough to call me by my first name. This is usually from older folks however who will always use my title no matter how familiar they are with me. Now with colleagues (MD's, DDS's, DMD's, other pharmacists) if they know me, they'll use my first name and I use theirs. If they don't they introduce themselves as Dr So and So to establish their identity. This avoids me having to ask why they want confidential information, their identity if calling in an Rx, etc....My nametag says XXXXX, Pharm.D. and many do not know that the title used is Dr. It worries me this is still an issue 30 years later! Your degree does not matter!!!! it is what you do with it that does. Some of the very best pharmacists I have worked with have had BS degrees and really - when you are working - no one cares (except you perhaps????) The important thing is you get that aminoglycoside dose right or make sure your newly diagnosed asthmatic knows how to use their inhaler - your respect will come with the work you do!

I agree that with other professionals first name should be used. BUT most people don't know that a pharmD is a doctor degree so all I am saying is pharmacist do a bad job publicizing this. I also agree some pharmacists who have BS are better than pharmD; it is the person. But my point is that most people, if I had to guess I would say over 85% don't know that a pharmacist earned a doctor degree; heck I didn't know until I signed up for college so I think pharmacist should show this!

[OSUdoc08]

Originally Posted by pharmduic

When I started pharmacy school, I remember thinking that I would be earning a doctorate degree and that when I graduated people would call me "Dr"; however this is not the case. Why is it that pharmacy is the field that earns a doctor degree but we don't even call each other Dr. Some chain pharmacies even call their store managers "Mr" but then the store manager calls the pharmD by their first name. Also, dentists are always called Doctor why aren't pharmDs. I think we would gain more respect if we were called "Dr"

Do you call lawyers "doctor?" --> They have a Doctorate!

Why not?

Pharmacists aren't formally considered to be Doctors by the general public.

[blueclassring]

no one considers pharmacists as physicians, but it is a professional degree. either way, i don't care if people call me doctor. just let me do my job.

[sdn1977]

Doctorates are all either academic (PhD) or professional (MD, DO, PharmD, DDS, DMD, OD, JD, etc...) They are the letters after your name to indicate what you received your doctorate in. The use of the title "Dr" can be used by anyone who has received a doctorate....have you ever read any works by Dr. Norman Vincent Peale - his was not a medical degree!!!(theology I think...) The colloquial use of "doctor" in a healthcare sense often refers to MD (altho DO's consistenly come across this prejudice). Command whatever you feel you must to feel good about yourself when it comes to how you are addressed. But - I can speak from extensive experience - I have NEVER, EVER been made to feel nor has it EVER been suggested that I received on the job training. My colleagues in all fields I interact with have shown me nothing but respect when I interact with them whether it is giving them pharmacologic information, insurance reimbursement information, drug interaction information, etc....My patients know I have many, many years of education and therefore know when I advise them to not worry or to make an appt to see their physician, it is with not just experience, but education also. I worry about you folks entering this field with what I perceive as inappropriate inferiority - perhaps it is a misperception of mine based on reading these posts. Don't let insecurity make you lose sight of what really will give you respect - learning how to be a great pharmacist then actually being one every day will give you respect from everyone! (sorry for the rant - IMO - this argument should have been over in 1979!)

[bananaface]

Originally Posted by imperial frog

I've been trying to get my wife to call me Master after I got my degree 6 years ago. The closest she got was Bastard.

I have a BS. I don't like this whole title thing.

Seriously though, I think being called by our first names makes us more approachable. For those who worry about respect, don't worry so much. People care more about what you do for them and how you treat them than what you ask them to call you.

[DHG]

Originally Posted by bananaface

I have a BS. I don't like this whole title thing.

I cartainly don't want to know what my BFA means

[pharmduic]

Originally Posted by OSUdoc08

Do you call lawyers "doctor?" --> They have a Doctorate!

Why not?

Pharmacists aren't formally considered to be Doctors by the general public.

so why are dentists called Dr.??????????

[pharmduic]

Originally Posted by bananaface

I have a BS. I don't like this whole title thing.

Seriously though, I think being called by our first names makes us more approachable. For those who worry about respect, don't worry so much. People care more about what you do for them and how you treat them than what you ask them to call you.

well ya first name is more approachable that is understood, but if you EARN a doctorate degree in anything you ARE a doctor; physicians aren't the only ones earning doctorate degrees

[WSU2007]

What concerns me the most is the public perception of a pharmacist. Overall I think that a majority of people do not realize the specialized knowledge and training a pharmacist has acquired thorugh his/her schooling. Many older patients probably have a greater appreciation because they were raised in a time when the community pharmacist was more involved in the healthcare of the patient. In today's world of drive thru pharmacies and $25 coupons most people do not view a trip to the pharmacy as a meaningful step in their medical treatment. Why is this the case? Pharmacy has evolved over the years in a way that has displaced the pharmacist from the health care process. Most people go to the pharmacy, pick up their prescription and never speak to the pharmacist. This is the state of the profesion now that we (students that you refered to in your post) will be entering a practice. We inherited this deflated public view of our professional status because our preceding pharmacy brethren has allowed the practice to be comparable to drive thru hamburger stand. I agree that the positive interventions made by the pharmacist and patient care is the important aspect of the practice and not a title but the insecurity you are witnessing is a result of the practice being manipulated by drug manufactures and insurance companies stripping the pharmacist of his role in the healthcare process (in the community).
Would love to hear you r thoughts

Originally Posted by sdn1977

Doctorates are all either academic (PhD) or professional (MD, DO, PharmD, DDS, DMD, OD, JD, etc...) They are the letters after your name to indicate what you received your doctorate in. The use of the title "Dr" can be used by anyone who has received a doctorate....have you ever read any works by Dr. Norman Vincent Peale - his was not a medical degree!!!(theology I think...) The colloquial use of "doctor" in a healthcare sense often refers to MD (altho DO's consistenly come across this prejudice). Command whatever you feel you must to feel good about yourself when it comes to how you are addressed. But - I can speak from extensive experience - I have NEVER, EVER been made to feel nor has it EVER been suggested that I received on the job training. My colleagues in all fields I interact with have shown me nothing but respect when I interact with them whether it is giving them pharmacologic information, insurance reimbursement information, drug interaction information, etc....My patients know I have many, many years of education and therefore know when I advise them to not worry or to make an appt to see their physician, it is with not just experience, but education also. I worry about you folks entering this field with what I perceive as inappropriate inferiority - perhaps it is a misperception of mine based on reading these posts. Don't let insecurity make you lose sight of what really will give you respect - learning how to be a great pharmacist then actually being one every day will give you respect from everyone! (sorry for the rant - IMO - this argument should have been over in 1979!)

[pharmduic]

Originally Posted by blueclassring

no one considers pharmacists as physicians, but it is a professional degree. either way, i don't care if people call me doctor. just let me do my job.

ok just keep "licking and sticking" and "counting and pouring" since you don't consider your profession as a career but rather a "job"; Mr. "Desperate Housewives" Pharmacist

[imperial frog]

Originally Posted by pharmduic

ok just keep "licking and sticking" and "counting and pouring" since you don't consider your profession as a career but rather a "job"; Mr. "Desperate Housewives" Pharmacist

Personally, I view wanting to do what you were trained to do versus worrying about if others call you doctor is much more professional.

[pharmacology]

Originally Posted by animal_lover

I agree with you. I think if PhD=Dr."X", then pharmD. should too. hmmmm, I wonder if this will ever change. There's so much that goes into just getting into pharm school, not to mention the work all the current students talk about. I think the least ppl could do is refer to pharmDs as Dr. "whoever"

[I think if PhD=Dr."X",....] The Ph.D. is, was, and has always been the original doctor. Then came all the other doctors...the professional degree doctors. Regardless of who one calls "doctor", the Ph.D. is a doctor, not a "If a PhD = Dr. 'X'".

And yes I am a doctor

[sdn1977]

Originally Posted by WSU2007

What concerns me the most is the public perception of a pharmacist. Overall I think that a majority of people do not realize the specialized knowledge and training a pharmacist has acquired thorugh his/her schooling. Many older patients probably have a greater appreciation because they were raised in a time when the community pharmacist was more involved in the healthcare of the patient. In today's world of drive thru pharmacies and $25 coupons most people do not view a trip to the pharmacy as a meaningful step in their medical treatment. Why is this the case? Pharmacy has evolved over the years in a way that has displaced the pharmacist from the health care process. Most people go to the pharmacy, pick up their prescription and never speak to the pharmacist. This is the state of the profesion now that we (students that you refered to in your post) will be entering a practice. We inherited this deflated public view of our professional status because our preceding pharmacy brethren has allowed the practice to be comparable to drive thru hamburger stand. I agree that the positive interventions made by the pharmacist and patient care is the important aspect of the practice and not a title but the insecurity you are witnessing is a result of the practice being manipulated by drug manufactures and insurance companies stripping the pharmacist of his role in the healthcare process (in the community).
Would love to hear you r thoughts

I've spent the last 6 years in retail (after 20 in hospital/home care/home IV therapy/teaching, etc...) and my experience is that in these last 6 years, I have had more meaningful interaction with patients (and physicians/dentists) than I did when I worked retail at the beginning of my career. Perhaps some specific examples will illustrate more: in the 70's, when I first began, pharmacists still did not have to label the name of the medication if the physician so directed (that is what the "label" box means on old Rx forms). Can you imagine educating a patient on a medication when you cannot even tell them its name or what it does? That is the ultimate in belief in "magic" or just do what the Dr says - currently we empower patients to be a part of their own healthcare. Often, I will fill an Rx for HCTZ then 2 months later for lisinopril for the same pt then a month later that same pt will be asking me my opinion about BP monitors (same situation occurs with diabetics). Now....a just ok pharmacist will say "we have this one or this one, but this one is on special...". A great pharmacist will take the time to educate the patient not just on monitors, but other lifestyle changes which will improve the disease. Examples go on and on. You can fall back on no time, the clerks do all the interacting, whatever excuses....But, I work in a very urban part of Northern California - busy, busy, busy - but, I make time and train my ancillary staff to give me all those potentially clinical questions - believe me - this is not that hard to do! No - I am not the manager of my pharmacy, but my manager knows the style of practice I have - he graduated from my own school, but 10 years ahead of me, so we have the same mindset. The area I work in has a wide demographic of economics, education and language. The uniform situation among all of them is how difficult it is to get an appt to see a physician. They often come to me to ask/show me their rash, symptom, history, and want to know if they really need to keep their appointment or can I offer something over the counter. I have sent 3 folks to the ER for MI's in progress and 1 for a stroke in progress - all recovered! I like to think it was because I told them to go NOW, not wait until their appt next Monday. I'm currently encouraging a middle-age man who asks me weekly about his BP which is running consistently high to see his Dr - there is no herbal treatment which will reduce it - will he go before he has a stroke? hopefully....with continued encouragement from me and those who care about him. So...I disagree - I feel the public's perception of pharmacists is high - and higher than it was 30 years ago because we are yet another independent voice for continued patient involvement in their own health. You may not hear it as such - but the fact they come to you for advice is the practical outcome of that respect. Now....have corporations diminished your perception of yourself professionally? Perhaps - yes...I hate those coupons - but, you will develop the ability to laugh amongst your pharmacist community with which you work. You get to know those coupons transferrers and each time one of you has to call the other for a copy, you know it will be a small set of names who do that all the time. As for drug manufacturers, I do not see what you see. Yes - they offer deals to insurance companies, but do I care? NO - in most circumstances, lisinopril will work just like benazepril and simvastatin works like atorvastatin. That is business and my role is to make the switch as easy as possible. I NEVER get flak from physicians when I request a change due to insurance coverage changes - we are all used to it. When awful things happen, like the hurricanes last year or 9/11 - drug manufacturers and corporate pharmacies stepped up and actually gave away millions of dollars of drugs to cover the short term losses of patients. I don't work for Walgreens, but they opened up their Rx records on a secure website to the rest of the country so we could access Rx records to transfer to patients who have relocated. That was a big deal when we needed to get transfers from Louisana to CA. So...I guess it is in how jaded you want to feel. Yeah - you can complain about anything and keep looking - you'll always find something. But, pharmacy has continued to progress in a very real and definable way for the better, IMO. I have always made the decision of what lines I would not cross professionally - no - I would not work at a pharmacy with a drive-thru window, but I won't criticize those who do. Not everyone wants or is good at face to face interactions. But, decide for yourself what you want professionally, then be out there being a good, positive, role model for that. My patients respect me, my colleagues respect me and mostly - I am proud of my 29 (oh gosh....that sounds so long) years of being part of this great profession! (I apologize again for the rant! I sound like an interview candidate......)

[sdn1977]

Originally Posted by pharmduic

so why are dentists called Dr.??????????

Funny.....my husband is a dentist. The very few times someone has asked is there a Dr available, he ALWAYS looks at the floor! Now if someone were to ask...is there a dentist available...(hahahah)

[highlyfavored]

Originally Posted by pharmacology

[I think if PhD=Dr."X",....] The Ph.D. is, was, and has always been the original doctor. Then came all the other doctors...the professional degree doctors. Regardless of who one calls "doctor", the Ph.D. is a doctor, not a "If a PhD = Dr. 'X'".

And yes I am a doctor

So, b/c PhD is the original "doctor" no one else(pharmacists) deserves the title??? I bet if you have a PhD/PharmD, and work in a clinical setting everyone still calls you by your first name. Try that with a dentist and see him do a triple take.

[WSU2007]

Thanks for sharing. I have as well observed that many patients do have questions for the pharmacist and value the advice but unfortunately they are not the majority. If the majority of folks valued our professional service we wouldn't get the gripes because something will take 20 minutes and not five or ten. Concepts like mail order pharmacy threaten our way of practice. I think its great and admire the way you have chosen to practice but I still don't believe the pharmacist is viewed as an important part of the healthcare process (majority). I am excited as it seems that the practice seems to be evolving as of late and am eager to be apart of the evolution. There is a long road ahead and hope to see the pharmacist taking a more active role in the healthcare of patients. Especially with a growing limited access (as you mentioned as well) to a physician. What do you think about MTM in the new Medicare package? Do you plan to participate? I like the MTM and hope it takes off. There are many interventions that can be made that I would be willing to bet you have even passed on because of time constraints (ex. reducing a pt's med cost, unnecessary meds etc) I bet there are many more community interventions that can be made if we had the time.

Originally Posted by sdn1977

I've spent the last 6 years in retail (after 20 in hospital/home care/home IV therapy/teaching, etc...) and my experience is that in these last 6 years, I have had more meaningful interaction with patients (and physicians/dentists) than I did when I worked retail at the beginning of my career. Perhaps some specific examples will illustrate more: in the 70's, when I first began, pharmacists still did not have to label the name of the medication if the physician so directed (that is what the "label" box means on old Rx forms). Can you imagine educating a patient on a medication when you cannot even tell them its name or what it does? That is the ultimate in belief in "magic" or just do what the Dr says - currently we empower patients to be a part of their own healthcare. Often, I will fill an Rx for HCTZ then 2 months later for lisinopril for the same pt then a month later that same pt will be asking me my opinion about BP monitors (same situation occurs with diabetics). Now....a just ok pharmacist will say "we have this one or this one, but this one is on special...". A great pharmacist will take the time to educate the patient not just on monitors, but other lifestyle changes which will improve the disease. Examples go on and on. You can fall back on no time, the clerks do all the interacting, whatever excuses....But, I work in a very urban part of Northern California - busy, busy, busy - but, I make time and train my ancillary staff to give me all those potentially clinical questions - believe me - this is not that hard to do! No - I am not the manager of my pharmacy, but my manager knows the style of practice I have - he graduated from my own school, but 10 years ahead of me, so we have the same mindset. The area I work in has a wide demographic of economics, education and language. The uniform situation among all of them is how difficult it is to get an appt to see a physician. They often come to me to ask/show me their rash, symptom, history, and want to know if they really need to keep their appointment or can I offer something over the counter. I have sent 3 folks to the ER for MI's in progress and 1 for a stroke in progress - all recovered! I like to think it was because I told them to go NOW, not wait until their appt next Monday. I'm currently encouraging a middle-age man who asks me weekly about his BP which is running consistently high to see his Dr - there is no herbal treatment which will reduce it - will he go before he has a stroke? hopefully....with continued encouragement from me and those who care about him. So...I disagree - I feel the public's perception of pharmacists is high - and higher than it was 30 years ago because we are yet another independent voice for continued patient involvement in their own health. You may not hear it as such - but the fact they come to you for advice is the practical outcome of that respect. Now....have corporations diminished your perception of yourself professionally? Perhaps - yes...I hate those coupons - but, you will develop the ability to laugh amongst your pharmacist community with which you work. You get to know those coupons transferrers and each time one of you has to call the other for a copy, you know it will be a small set of names who do that all the time. As for drug manufacturers, I do not see what you see. Yes - they offer deals to insurance companies, but do I care? NO - in most circumstances, lisinopril will work just like benazepril and simvastatin works like atorvastatin. That is business and my role is to make the switch as easy as possible. I NEVER get flak from physicians when I request a change due to insurance coverage changes - we are all used to it. When awful things happen, like the hurricanes last year or 9/11 - drug manufacturers and corporate pharmacies stepped up and actually gave away millions of dollars of drugs to cover the short term losses of patients. I don't work for Walgreens, but they opened up their Rx records on a secure website to the rest of the country so we could access Rx records to transfer to patients who have relocated. That was a big deal when we needed to get transfers from Louisana to CA. So...I guess it is in how jaded you want to feel. Yeah - you can complain about anything and keep looking - you'll always find something. But, pharmacy has continued to progress in a very real and definable way for the better, IMO. I have always made the decision of what lines I would not cross professionally - no - I would not work at a pharmacy with a drive-thru window, but I won't criticize those who do. Not everyone wants or is good at face to face interactions. But, decide for yourself what you want professionally, then be out there being a good, positive, role model for that. My patients respect me, my colleagues respect me and mostly - I am proud of my 29 (oh gosh....that sounds so long) years of being part of this great profession! (I apologize again for the rant! I sound like an interview candidate......)

[bananaface]

Originally Posted by animal_lover

So, b/c PhD is the original "doctor" no one else(pharmacists) deserves the title???

I think he was just joking around.

[sdn1977]

Originally Posted by animal_lover

So, b/c PhD is the original "doctor" no one else(pharmacists) deserves the title??? I bet if you have a PhD/PharmD, and work in a clinical setting everyone still calls you by your first name. Try that with a dentist and see him do a triple take.

This is even more funny than PharmD's worrying about being called Dr. My husband - the dentist - is called everything from Dr to Mr to XXXX (his first name). Believe me - when he is the one with the drill - there is no question in anyone's mind who the dentist is - most of all his!!!! Get over the titles - its no big deal! He also never uses his title outside his office - it is more often than not a distraction and not relevant (unless he is going to a dental meeting!)

[dgroulx]

Originally Posted by DHG

I cartainly don't want to know what my BFA means

If it was my degree, it would stand for Big F'ing Ass. I really need to start a diet.

[Caliyaddamean]

Toooo funny

Originally Posted by imperial frog

I've been trying to get my wife to call me Master after I got my degree 6 years ago. The closest she got was Bastard.

[bananaface]

Originally Posted by sdn1977

This is even more funny than PharmD's worrying about being called Dr. My husband - the dentist - is called everything from Dr to Mr to XXXX (his first name). Believe me - when he is the one with the drill - there is no question in anyone's mind who the dentist is - most of all his!!!! Get over the titles - its no big deal! He also never uses his title outside his office - it is more often than not a distraction and not relevant (unless he is going to a dental meeting!)

I worked with one guy who said the first time he used "Dr" he got reamed on a hotel bill. He no longer has any interest in using the title.

[Sosumi]

I think what sdn1977 said was very true. "Clinical pharmacy" is a state of mind. I don't care how busy our pharmacy gets, the techs calling out, angry customers, insurance hassles, if I feel like I truly helped at least one patient that day, it makes it all worthwhile. Otherwise when I do eventually graduate, I believe I will burn out too soon.

Some of my classmates have that dread that retail pharmacy is just too busy and want to hide behind the counter and shove out pills all day because they've already decided that's their fate. Our professors tell us they're teaching us to be clinical pharmacists regardless of practice site.

The problem is a lot of pharmacists are like this, including the preceptors assigned to be teaching us. When I did my Wal-Mart rotation, the first thing my preceptor (the pharmacy manager) said was that he doesn't counsel EVER because he's too busy... Yet I see him have time hopping on bubble wrap and disturbing the optometrist's exam next door.

I've learned more from working in underserved urban pharmacies where the patients really respect what you have to say. I've been in one where the pharmacist (foreign-trained and went back and got his PharmD) was filling 150+ scripts/day all by himself because the techs had suddenly stopped showing up for work the past 2 weeks. Despite how busy he was, he never got flustered and still had time to counsel patients that needed it. They treated him with the utmost respect often calling him "doctor" because he earned it.

If we actually try using what they teach us in school, it really can make a difference. I've worked in pharmacies where counseling never occurs, so when I ring up their prescription and ask them if they have any questions or would like to be counseled, they act surprised and even more surprised when I counsel and answer their questions -- so many people do not know that we know about this stuff! Hence, I believe we don't truly earn the title of "doctor" by simply graduating from pharmacy school, it has to be earned from the patients you serve.

[imperial frog]

Originally Posted by animal_lover

So, b/c PhD is the original "doctor" no one else(pharmacists) deserves the title??? I bet if you have a PhD/PharmD, and work in a clinical setting everyone still calls you by your first name. Try that with a dentist and see him do a triple take.

What cology is saying is that there is no IFs about PhD being a doctor...that's where the title started. The doctor was the master of doctrine (information). Medicine hijaacked the title in an attempt to gain credibility back when they were best known for cutting people or slathering them up with leeches in order to get the evil spirits out.

[pharmduic]

Originally Posted by sdn1977

This is even more funny than PharmD's worrying about being called Dr. My husband - the dentist - is called everything from Dr to Mr to XXXX (his first name). Believe me - when he is the one with the drill - there is no question in anyone's mind who the dentist is - most of all his!!!! Get over the titles - its no big deal! He also never uses his title outside his office - it is more often than not a distraction and not relevant (unless he is going to a dental meeting!)

I know that a physician is a physician and a dentist is a dentist BUT when I make an appt with my dentist I make an appt with "Dr. Smith" he is a dentist though. His staff also says "o you have an appt with "dr. smith"." I don't think titles should be used out of work. My husband is a physician and never tells anyone just because of the attention; however, I think the main point of my original concern is that PharmDs are never called "Dr" while dentists are.

I am also satisfied with my career and pts, etc Yes I know pharmacists can make a difference you don't have to tell me I am an Assistant Professor of Pharmacy at a great University; however, I just feel that PharmDs don't get a title, and I was hoping for a solution to that.

[ultracet]

any pharmacist (in 5 short months) who corrects me and says... Please call me DOCTOR Smith, not "ADAM" will be throughly patronized...

you want my respect? earn it!

don't even suggest that a stupid degree entitles you to it


and i know all of you are talking about how rphs have no respect.... honestly if you're a good pharmacist respect comes with the territory... and i have never had a problem with it

[WSU2007]

'

[WSU2007]

????? WHOA!!!!

Originally Posted by bbmuffin

any pharmacist (in 5 short months) who corrects me and says... Please call me DOCTOR Smith, not "ADAM" will be throughly patronized...

you want my respect? earn it!

don't even suggest that a stupid degree entitles you to it


and i know all of you are talking about how rphs have no respect.... honestly if you're a good pharmacist respect comes with the territory... and i have never had a problem with it

[alwaystired]

Originally Posted by bbmuffin

any pharmacist (in 5 short months) who corrects me and says... Please call me DOCTOR Smith, not "ADAM" will be throughly patronized...

you want my respect? earn it!

don't even suggest that a stupid degree entitles you to it


and i know all of you are talking about how rphs have no respect.... honestly if you're a good pharmacist respect comes with the territory... and i have never had a problem with it

There is a reason it is called a doctorate degree, so yes a doctorate degree should earn you the title. Apparently not your respect, but that's fine.

[VCU07]

Originally Posted by bbmuffin

any pharmacist (in 5 short months) who corrects me and says... Please call me DOCTOR Smith, not "ADAM" will be throughly patronized...

you want my respect? earn it!

don't even suggest that a stupid degree entitles you to it


and i know all of you are talking about how rphs have no respect.... honestly if you're a good pharmacist respect comes with the territory... and i have never had a problem with it

The degree better entitle me to it

[Caliyaddamean]

Originally Posted by bbmuffin

any pharmacist (in 5 short months) who corrects me and says... Please call me DOCTOR Smith, not "ADAM" will be throughly patronized...

you want my respect? earn it!

don't even suggest that a stupid degree entitles you to it


and i know all of you are talking about how rphs have no respect.... honestly if you're a good pharmacist respect comes with the territory... and i have never had a problem with it

ALRIGHTTTTY THEN!

[WVUPharm2007]

I live in BFE West Virginia, the home of the ignorant yokel, and I've never encountered a single person that thinks a pharmacist's training is anything less than "a lot of college". Where the hell do you people live? I think I'll stay in WV when I graduate, yeesh.

About the "Dr. Such-and-such" thing, we're forever going to be addressed by our first names. Oh well. I could care less. Pay me.

Further, I call my optometrist and dentist by their first names. Probably call my physician Richard next time I see him, too - just to see what happens.

[wertyjoe]

First, I'm not a pharm student but three friends of mine are. I'm currently working on my DO degree so I'm kind of the black sheep among them. I was just surfing through the forums when I found this thread and for some reason it caught my eye. What I am about to say is not meant to offend anyone.

BS in pharm = 5 years = pharmacist

PharmD = 2 yr. undergrad + 4 yr prof. school = pharmacist

DDS, OD, MD/DO PhD = 4 yrs. undergrad + 4 years prof/graduate school

If you guys are concerned about being called Dr:

1. up your standards for admission into PharmD school
2. phase out or require BS in pharm to become PharmD.

I know a lot of PharmD students have advanced degrees but the minimum for admission into PharmD school is still 2 years undergrad.

If all pharmacists are PharmD, with equal minimum education with the rest of professions calling themselves doctor, then it makes it a lot easier for people to look upon you as a doctor. This delemma your occupation faces is internal and can only be corrected internally.

Personally, I don't understand whats the big deal with a title or degree behind your name. If it allows you to enter the career you want and with the same salary as your counterparts then why should it matter.

Anyone standing behind the counter working in the Pharmacy has my respect. It doesn't matter if that person is the tech, BS in pharm, PharmD, or the person hired to run the till, they all have my respect initially. It is how they treat me as a customer, and as a future colleague, in determining if they will continue to get my respect in the future. Remember, respect is earned and not given with education or position of authority.

You guys have one of the hottest careers out there so quit worrying about semantics. Revel in the fact that you are part of it and not looking in from the other side of the fence.

Werty

[calrx]

Originally Posted by dgroulx

If it was my degree, it would stand for Big F'ing Ass. I really need to start a diet.

I actually burst out laughing when I got to your post
Don't be so hard on yourself... hahaha

[bananaface]

Originally Posted by calrx

I actually burst out laughing when I got to your post
Don't be so hard on yourself... hahaha

I think she was confessing to being a huge softie.

b-face, VP of the SDN BFA Club

[pharmduic]

Originally Posted by wertyjoe

First, I'm not a pharm student but three friends of mine are. I'm currently working on my DO degree so I'm kind of the black sheep among them. I was just surfing through the forums when I found this thread and for some reason it caught my eye. What I am about to say is not meant to offend anyone.

BS in pharm = 4 years = pharmacist

PharmD = 2 yr. undergrad + 4 yr prof. school = pharmacist

DDS, OD, MD/DO PhD = 4 yrs. undergrad + 4 years prof/graduate school

If you guys are concerned about being called Dr:

1. up your standards for admission into PharmD school
2. phase out or require BS in pharm to become PharmD.

I know a lot of PharmD students have advanced degrees but the minimum for admission into PharmD school is still 2 years undergrad.

If all pharmacists are PharmD, with equal minimum education with the rest of professions calling themselves doctor, then it makes it a lot easier for people to look upon you as a doctor. This delemma your occupation faces is internal and can only be corrected internally.

Personally, I don't understand whats the big deal with a title or degree behind your name. If it allows you to enter the career you want and with the same salary as your counterparts then why should it matter.

Anyone standing behind the counter working in the Pharmacy has my respect. It doesn't matter if that person is the tech, BS in pharm, PharmD, or the person hired to run the till, they all have my respect initially. It is how they treat me as a customer, and as a future colleague, in determining if they will continue to get my respect in the future. Remember, respect is earned and not given with education or position of authority.

You guys have one of the hottest careers out there so quit worrying about semantics. Revel in the fact that you are part of it and not looking in from the other side of the fence.

Werty

I agree with what you are saying it is the pharmacy community. Most pharmacist just care about MAKING MONEY. NOT patient care or anything else. They don't care what they are called as long as they make money. I think that in order to change the professional image of pharmacy we should work together as a group to change it. Obviously people respect us and blah blah blah. But we are still one of the few health-care professionals that are NOT called Dr. despite a doctorate degree. I wish someone told me this as a student because I would never want to be part of a field that only cares about money and not their profession.

[Glycerin]

Originally Posted by pharmduic

Most pharmacist just care about MAKING MONEY. NOT patient care or anything else. They don't care what they are called as long as they make money. .... I wish someone told me this as a student because I would never want to be part of a field that only cares about money and not their profession.

How can you make a blanket statement such as the one you just made? Because of the "few" people you've seen or know? I'm sorry, but to lump all pharmacists into one group and say that we all or even most of us just care about making money and nothing about patient care or the profession itself is TRULY offensive.

[Requiem]

To the future dentist, a B.Sc. Pharm is 5 years, not 4.

To Pharmduic, "Most pharmacist just care about MAKING MONEY. NOT patient care or anything else. They don't care what they are called as long as they make money. .... I wish someone told me this as a student because I would never want to be part of a field that only cares about money and not their profession."

To make a statement like that is absolutely ridiculous, you're an embarrasment to anything I consider pharmacy. Probably not even a pharmacy student, just one of the many trolls roaming around here lately.

And to bbmuffin, you're ridiculous. What kind of stupid statement was that, that you as a pharmacy student can judge whether or not your superior should be called doctor, when he quite simply is a doctor and can be called by that if he wishes. (ps why would you call the degree youre trying to earn, "stupid"?)

Is anyone here actually sensible? Honestly. If some of you actually are in pharmacy school it scares the hell out of me, you wonder about respect? With those attitudes i'm surprised you're tolerated by society whatsoever, period.

[starvinstudent]

Originally Posted by pharmduic

When I started pharmacy school, I remember thinking that I would be earning a doctorate degree and that when I graduated people would call me "Dr"; however this is not the case. Why is it that pharmacy is the field that earns a doctor degree but we don't even call each other Dr. Some chain pharmacies even call their store managers "Mr" but then the store manager calls the pharmD by their first name. Also, dentists are always called Doctor why aren't pharmDs. I think we would gain more respect if we were called "Dr"

There is an easy explanation to this.

Dentists and physicians are referred to as doctors because they GIVE medical treatment.

Pharmacists prescribe what the DOCTOR calls for.
Pharmacists also in my opinion do not have the most respected position. For example, how many times have you went to a Doctor and had them wait on you at the cash register and take your money and count your change like a pharmacist? that stinks.

Pharmacists also have it easy these days, they just put your info in the computer and the computer tells if you have any drug reaction, etc.

When was the last time a person went to the dentist or physician and they were able to ask the computer for information or advice?

Just my 2 cents. Its not as respected of a profession as many think.

OH, Also, I totally disagree with calling college professors DOCTOR just because they earned a doctorate in some narrow field of study. thats stupid and why I dont do it.