Congrats to Pain Physician

do you know if all articles from previous years will be made available on medline?

algosdoc said:

Recently, Pain Physician, a publication of ASIPP was selected to be included in Medline listings. What was once a one-doctor dominated publication with many deficits has now been accepted as a nationally recognized journal. The efforts of Drs Boswell (current editor) and Slipman made this remarkable transformation possible through their insistance on the implementation of some standards and ethics into the publication. Congrats for a job well done. Because the inclusion of the journal in a nationally recognized database listing demonstrates the employment of ethical standards that have been adopted, the algosresearch.org website will list Pain Physician as one of the journals to be considered as a resource in pain medicine.

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Oddly Dr., Slipman stepped DOWN from the editorship of Pain Physician because of just the concerns you raise regarding its being a "one doctor dominated publication"

Given that the current editor is now at Texas Tech (ie in cahoots c Racz et al, still major proponents of FIPP and all that nonsense), one wonders one onders how much Pain Physician remains within Lax's sphere of influence,a nd thus how much the content of the journal is free from his biases.

ASIPP has always been a well oiled political machine - I merely wonder whether Pain Physician's inclusion in Medline is more based on lobbying of the right people, or reflective of the scientific scholarship of the journal (which IMHO has not been dramatically altered). Afterall, ask yourself, if you had a paper to be published, would Pain Physician be the first place you hoped you might want to select it? Or would Spine, The Spine Journal, Pain, Pain Medicine, Regional Anesthesia and Pain Medicine, etc, all be higher on your list (I think you can guess where they would be on mine).

paz5559 said:

ASIPP has always been a well oiled political machine - I merely wonder whether Pain Physician's inclusion in Medline is more based on lobbying of the right people, or reflective of the scientific scholarship of the journal (which IMHO has not been dramatically altered). Afterall, ask yourself, if you had a paper to be published, would Pain Physician be the first place you hoped you might want to select it? Or would Spine, The Spine Journal, Pain, Pain Medicine, Regional Anesthesia and Pain Medicine, etc, all be higher on your list (I think you can guess where they would be on mine).

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Scientific rigor are not the leading requirements for a publication to be indexed on Medline. It's more about demonstrating an audience, scope and breadth, production quality, and having the right kind editorial board in place.

Requirements for Medline Inclusion

I'm interested in what people *do* consider the leading Pain Medicine Journals?

My vote:
1) Pain Medicine
2) Spine

paz5559 said:

Oddly Dr., Slipman stepped DOWN from the editorship of Pain Physician because of just the concerns you raise regarding its being a "one doctor dominated publication"

Given that the current editor is now at Texas Tech (ie in cahoots c Racz et al, still major proponents of FIPP and all that nonsense), one wonders one onders how much Pain Physician remains within Lax's sphere of influence,a nd thus how much the content of the journal is free from his biases.

ASIPP has always been a well oiled political machine - I merely wonder whether Pain Physician's inclusion in Medline is more based on lobbying of the right people, or reflective of the scientific scholarship of the journal (which IMHO has not been dramatically altered). Afterall, ask yourself, if you had a paper to be published, would Pain Physician be the first place you hoped you might want to select it? Or would Spine, The Spine Journal, Pain, Pain Medicine, Regional Anesthesia and Pain Medicine, etc, all be higher on your list (I think you can guess where they would be on mine).

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Just cause slipman stepped down and boswell took over there doesn't have to be some kind of conspiracy going on. No one is in "cahoots" with racz. No its not a one man publication. Sure, lax's name os out there, but the last time I looked I saw windsor's name a few times. Oh wait, who's s that guy shah?? **** his name is everywhere. Cant forget slipman, he's all over the journal. I think the bias is yours.

md2k said:

Just cause slipman stepped down and boswell took over there doesn't have to be some kind of conspiracy going on. No one is in "cahoots" with racz. No its not a one man publication. Sure, lax's name os out there, but the last time I looked I saw windsor's name a few times. Oh wait, who's s that guy shah?? **** his name is everywhere. Cant forget slipman, he's all over the journal. I think the bias is yours.

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Rinoo Shah was also at Texas Tech during the time his work was prominantly displayed. Windsor's practice is largely independant of Emory, and thus the lack of need for IRB approval makes Pain Physician a much easier place to get things published. Boswell took over the journal, and then moved to Texas Tech - gee, yah think there might be jsut the tiniest of connections there? And Dr. Slipman's ethics have never been questoned, and the number of articles he has published in Pain Physician has gone down dramaticaly since he stepped down as editor.

Singh and Lax are still the most frequent authors published, and therein lies the conflict.

PAZ, in 2004 you shoved your CV into my face at the AAPMR meeting and asked about doing a fellowship at TT. Actually, I showed it to my wife and told her that I was quite impressed with your background

When you were displaced in 2005, due to Hurricane Katrina, you solicited a fellowship spot at TT. It was not a subtle request--no surprise.

Yet you question the ethics, integrity, and motivation of the physicians at TT...including me.

Fe+++ ? (for the chemically challenged, ironic)

Why dont you spend your time publishing in your favorite journals, rather than ranting and raving and (building your CV) in the pain doctor equivalent of MySpace.com

Rinoo what is your point? Paz is a great guy. Most people can't say the same thing about you.

PF

This is your Moderator...(coming to the center of the ring)...

Let's please keep the discussion at least at a level one might encounter at a respectable professional conference. I take a laise faire approach to moderating, but am duty-bound to enforce the SDN Forum Usage Policy and PainRounds user agreements:

Pain Rounds User Agreement


SDN Forum Usage Policy


Many residents, pain fellows, and clinicians find the content of PainRounds useful and stimulating. Let's not turn it into a flame war.

drrinoo said:

PAZ, in 2004 you shoved your CV into my face at the AAPMR meeting and asked about doing a fellowship at TT. Actually, I showed it to my wife and told her that I was quite impressed with your background

When you were displaced in 2005, due to Hurricane Katrina, you solicited a fellowship spot at TT. It was not a subtle request--no surprise.

Yet you question the ethics, integrity, and motivation of the physicians at TT...including me.

Fe+++ ? (for the chemically challenged, ironic)

Why dont you spend your time publishing in your favorite journals, rather than ranting and raving and (building your CV) in the pain doctor equivalent of MySpace.com

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Dr. Shah:

I am more than happy to have a private conversation with you, should you wish to contact me. The facts in your post are entirely accurate, although the tone is quite unnecessary, if this is to be a scholarly forum (although clearly from your reference to "the pain doctor equivalent of MySpace.com", you don't think much of my fellow readers). Interesting that you would even deign to monitor such a tawdry venue, if you think so little of it.

With regard to my approaching you at AAPM&R, guilty as charged, although I am not entirely certain if asking you to take the time to review my CV is reasonably characterized as having it "shoved in your face". Also, I would acknowledge that I did, indeed, apply to your program once displaced from my own in New Orleans. Forgive me, but how does one submit a request to your fellowship coordinator "subtly", particularly in that set of circumstances?

I look forward to speaking with you further, if you chose to pursue this. I will leave the method of contact entirely up to you.

paz5559 said:

Rinoo Shah was also at Texas Tech during the time his work was prominantly displayed. Windsor's practice is largely independant of Emory, and thus the lack of need for IRB approval makes Pain Physician a much easier place to get things published. Boswell took over the journal, and then moved to Texas Tech - gee, yah think there might be jsut the tiniest of connections there? And Dr. Slipman's ethics have never been questoned, and the number of articles he has published in Pain Physician has gone down dramaticaly since he stepped down as editor.

Singh and Lax are still the most frequent authors published, and therein lies the conflict.

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Paz, I agree with Dr shah's assessment. You are attacking the ethics, integrity, and motivation of the physicians at Texas Tech, I however did not put it so bluntly. That is the reason I responded to your initial comments.
As far as DR. Shah, he is a great physician and extremely talented as well as the other TT physicians and I dont think it is appropriate for you to come to such conclusions.

md2k said:

Paz, I agree with Dr shah's assessment. You are attacking the ethics, integrity, and motivation of the physicians at Texas Tech, I however did not put it so bluntly. That is the reason I responded to your initial comments.
As far as DR. Shah, he is a great physician and extremely talented as well as the other TT physicians and I dont think it is appropriate for you to come to such conclusions.

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At no time did I attack anyone - what I did was ask a question, and remarkably, got attacked personally merely for my inquiry. A rebuttal as to my premise or conclusion would have been perfectly reasonable, and would have been what I would have expected from such a venerable institution. Instead, the rhetorical device of ad hominem logical fallacy attack (appeal to personal ridicule: Person A makes claim X, person B makes an attack on person A, therefore A's claim is false), term coined by John Locke in An Essay Concerning Human Understanding, 1690) was employed.

As Cicero advised in the 1st Century BCE, "If you have no case, abuse the plaintiff."

paz5559 said:

At no time did I attack anyone - what I did was ask a question, and remarkably, got attacked personally merely for my inquiry. A rebuttal as to my premise or conclusion would have been perfectly reasonable, and would have been what I would have expected from such a venerable institution. Instead, the rhetorical device of ad hominem logical fallacy attack (appeal to personal ridicule: Person A makes claim X, person B makes an attack on person A, therefore A's claim is false), term coined by John Locke in An Essay Concerning Human Understanding, 1690) was employed.

As Cicero advised in the 1st Century BCE, "If you have no case, abuse the plaintiff."

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He is right. He simply asked a question.

We all should question the ethics of Rinoo. Posting details of an application in a public forum is clearly a violation of privacy.

paz5559 said:

At no time did I attack anyone - what I did was ask a question, and remarkably, got attacked personally merely for my inquiry. A rebuttal as to my premise or conclusion would have been perfectly reasonable, and would have been what I would have expected from such a venerable institution. Instead, the rhetorical device of ad hominem logical fallacy attack (appeal to personal ridicule: Person A makes claim X, person B makes an attack on person A, therefore A's claim is false), term coined by John Locke in An Essay Concerning Human Understanding, 1690) was employed.

As Cicero advised in the 1st Century BCE, "If you have no case, abuse the plaintiff."

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I enjoy this forum and learning about what others across the country in pain medicine think.

PAZ, this was not a personal attack against you. At best, it was a personal attack against me. You did not raise a question, rather, you speculated. Oliver Stone did not raise a question to the Feds about JFK. Rather he raised conjecture, with the intent to influence his movie audience about conspiracy theories. Michael Moore did not raise a question to George Bush. Rather, he raised conjecture, with the intent to influence his audience in order to promulgate his views--whether it is fact or fiction. In both instances, the intent of the directors was to gain fame and fortune, at the expense of another.

You did not intend to gather the truth. You simply wanted to promote your views about Pain Physician...and to wit, you alluded to imagined ethical conflicts of interest, with respect to my submissions.

You are entitled to your opinion to think what you will about me.

However, I think it is hypocritical to seek training from an individual, whose ethics you question. I am the same person that you approached in 2004 and in 2005.

And to change this forum a little bit...

There has been enough criticism of FIPP and ASIPP....both relatively recent organizations...so, imagine you could create your own organization.

If you could create your own society/organization that reflects your practices and beliefs in medicine, what would its mission statement and goals be...

drrinoo said:

I enjoy this forum and learning about what others across the country in pain medicine think.

PAZ, this was not a personal attack against you. At best, it was a personal attack against me. You did not raise a question, rather, you speculated. Oliver Stone did not raise a question to the Feds about JFK. Rather he raised conjecture, with the intent to influence his movie audience about conspiracy theories. Michael Moore did not raise a question to George Bush. Rather, he raised conjecture, with the intent to influence his audience in order to promulgate his views--whether it is fact or fiction. In both instances, the intent of the directors was to gain fame and fortune, at the expense of another.

You did not intend to gather the truth. You simply wanted to promote your views about Pain Physician...and to wit, you

You are entitled to your opinion to think what you will about me.

However, I think it is hypocritical to seek training from an individual, whose ethics you question. I am the same person that you approached in 2004 and in 2005.

And to change this forum a little bit...

There has been enough criticism of FIPP and ASIPP....both relatively recent organizations...so, imagine you could create your own organization.

If you could create your own society/organization that reflects your practices and beliefs in medicine, what would its mission statement and goals be...

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Dr Shah:

Just so we are clear, I did attempt to make the offer that this PERSONAL discussion be held privately, but you seem to insist on doing it in a public forum.

I was not the one who raised your name in this discussion, nor did I in any way

drrinoo said:

allude to imagined ethical conflicts of interest, with respect to [your] submissions

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.

If you will be so kind as to review the thread, your name was mentioned by md2k as a counter example of someone whose work had been published in the Pain Physician, as if to say Dr. Shah, someone not affiliated with Texas Tech, is also prominently featured.

md2k said:

No its not a one man publication. Sure, lax's name os out there, but the last time I looked I saw windsor's name a few times. Oh wait, who's s that guy shah?? **** his name is everywhere. Cant forget slipman, he's all over the journal.

Click to expand...

paz5559 said:

Rinoo Shah was also at Texas Tech during the time his work was prominantly displayed.

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As for what you believe I implied, I suggest you first look at your extrordinary overreaction, and wonder why you might have goten so defensive when I am, afterall, one of those who participate in a forum you characterized as

drrinoo said:

the pain doctor equivalent of MySpace.com

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Lastly, I note you chose not to address your rhetorical use of an ad hominem attack. It seems to me when you tangentially called Algos a bigot you were using a similar tactic, and I for one find it reprehensible in both instances

drrinoo (09-14-2005 said:

You are presenting some common misconceptions about ASIPP and Dr. Manchikanti...personally, I believe the major reason that Dr. Manchikanti is criticized is simple bigotry

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I guess I equate accomplishment with a certain element of civility. Perhaps that is not a reasonable expectation.

drrinoo said:

Oliver Stone did not raise a question to the Feds about JFK. Rather he raised conjecture, with the intent to influence his movie audience about conspiracy theories. Michael Moore did not raise a question to George Bush. Rather, he raised conjecture, with the intent to influence his audience in order to promulgate his views--whether it is fact or fiction. In both instances, the intent of the directors was to gain fame and fortune, at the expense of another.

Click to expand...

Hmmm..George Clooney directed 'Syriana' just to get an Oscar....

paz5559 said:

Dr Shah:

Just so we are clear, I did attempt to make the offer that this PERSONAL discussion be held privately, but you seem to insist on doing it in a public forum.

I was not the one who raised your name in this discussion, nor did I in any way .

If you will be so kind as to review the thread, your name was mentioned by md2k as a counter example of someone whose work had been published in the Pain Physician, as if to say Dr. Shah, someone not affiliated with Texas Tech, is also prominently featured.





As for what you believe I implied, I suggest you first look at your extrordinary overreaction, and wonder why you might have goten so defensive when I am, afterall, one of those who participate in a forum you characterized as

Lastly, I note you chose not to address your rhetorical use of an ad hominem attack. It seems to me when you tangentially called Algos a bigot you were using a similar tactic, and I for one find it reprehensible in both instances



I guess I equate accomplishment with a certain element of civility. Perhaps that is not a reasonable expectation.

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You are right. It was an ad hominem attack. I am fallible. I apologize to both you and Algos.

You both are entitled to your views about the goings on in the pain world--it makes us all better, even when it raises my systolic BP.

There are times an adhominem attack is appropriate, however:

If someone has the gall, in an unsolicited fashion (no matter how innocent), to say: 'Gee, you are from New York. How do you put up with all the crime?'

First, as an expat from NYC, I will think that they have absolutely no business commenting on something that does not concern them.

I could be humble and polite and respond...'Yes, you are absolutely right. Bloomberg and Giuliani haven't done enough to make NYC safer.'

or I could say...[in an ad hominem fashion]...'Well you uncouth country bumpkin, don't you read the newspaper? You ought to visit the city and see that crime is at an all time low and NYC is an absolutely wonderful city'

PAZ, you are an extremely talented and bright individual. I look forward to all the great things you are going to do for pain medicine in the future.

Why do you so concern yourself, with what all the 'heroes' in pain medicine do? There are far more microscopic concerns, than there are macroscopic ones in our fledgling field.

For instance, just try to get onto staff at a hospital, where an anesthesiology group has an exclusive contract for pain. These are the small battles we all will have to fight.

Rinoo

rinoo get off your high horse...

is it wonderful that pain physician is on MEDLINE??? sure it is!!!! we need more mainstream access to pain research...

do i read pain physician??? sure I do!!! it has some interesting articles... sometimes...

is it a pulpit for Lax to pat himself on the shoulders for NASPER in every issue? sure it is!

is it a forum for a bunch of buddies to publish systematic reviews (doesn't take much brain power)? sure it is

is it a forum for a bunch of buddies to publish weak and poor data? sure it is...

will things now improve that it has been accepted on Medline? hopefully, all the decent studies that went to Spine, Spine Journal, NEMJ, Anesth & Analg, etc, will now be published via Pain Physician...

is it still kinda sickening to see Manchikanti, Boswell, Shah in every damn article??? sure it is... it feels like a fraternity newsletter...

hopefully things will improve.

Now to be fair, I am a lazy guy who doesn't care much to do research and publish --- maybe if i did publish articles my opinions on this topic would hold sway.

But i am tired of the Paz vs Shah crap... I am tired of the ASIPP vs ASRA vs ISIS crap...