HPSP, USUHS, FAP threads

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HPSP FAQ

USUHS

FAP: Read Before Signing HPSP

What do all these abbreviations mean, please?


Thank you

Shan

Originally Posted by Doc Browncoat

What do all these abbreviations mean, please?


Thank you

Shan

USUHS = Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (military med school in Bethesda, MD)
HPSP = Health Professions Scholarship Program (mil scholarship to go to civ med school)
FAP = Financial Assistance Program

Do you think you could add a link to this thread on the ARNG as well?

Does anyone know if USUHS accepts single parents?

Yes, the school administration and environment is very family-friendly. Many students make use of the Child Development Center for day-care on base.

Moneraths, do you have any idea how much the child center costs? Thanks

Does anyone know what the availability is like for Navy FAP in OB/GYN right now? I'm currently trying to decide between a couple years of HSCP and FAP, and the likeliness of getting the FAP for an OB/GYN residency would really help the decision process. Unfortunately, my recruiter hasn't been very helpful in the matter.

Originally Posted by kkobgyn

Does anyone know what the availability is like for Navy FAP in OB/GYN right now? I'm currently trying to decide between a couple years of HSCP and FAP, and the likeliness of getting the FAP for an OB/GYN residency would really help the decision process. Unfortunately, my recruiter hasn't been very helpful in the matter.

You might be able to slip in at the end of a fiscal year if there are unused quotas, but OB is not a high priority for FAP.

Originally Posted by NavyFP

You might be able to slip in at the end of a fiscal year if there are unused quotas, but OB is not a high priority for FAP.

How often are there unused quotas?

Thanks for your help!

Also, I recently spoke with a Navy OB/GYN who is fresh out of the Portsmouth residency. They informed me that having to do GMO/flight surgery/dive after your intern year is less common in OB/GYN than other more competitive subspecialty areas. Is this true?

I have been doing a fair amount of research into Navy HPSP, and saw mention here and there about automatic acceptance into the program given certain GPA and MCAT scores. Does anyone have any info?

Also, I know it is possible, but what are the chances of wanting to do pediatrics in the Navy and actually getting to?

Originally Posted by EscieCoop

I have been doing a fair amount of research into Navy HPSP, and saw mention here and there about automatic acceptance into the program given certain GPA and MCAT scores. Does anyone have any info?

Also, I know it is possible, but what are the chances of wanting to do pediatrics in the Navy and actually getting to?

Im AF HPSP, but the 3 branches worked the same for this. You are granted the scholarship, but it is still pending your acceptance to a Med School. You still have to fill out all the paperwork, application, MEPS & etc. You need a 3.5 or over and a 29 or over on the MCAT. The Navy HPSP Recruiters should be able to give you more information on the application process.

Originally Posted by kkobgyn

Also, I recently spoke with a Navy OB/GYN who is fresh out of the Portsmouth residency. They informed me that having to do GMO/flight surgery/dive after your intern year is less common in OB/GYN than other more competitive subspecialty areas. Is this true?

YES! I trained at Balboa and most OBGYN interns I knew went straight through. Internal Med and Psych also tend to have the same training pipeline.

Hi, I'm new-ish to the site, I'm getting ready to start GWU in Aug 11 ($55k/yr tuition alone), so I've been looking into milit programs. The FAP looks good to me as I do want to do a civ residency, but I'm interested in pathology (clinical not forensic) and derm----anyone can direct me to a place/website where I can see if any of the major branches --army, navy, etc would offer FAP programs to docs who want to specialize in these fields. Anybody out there w/a sense of how likely I am to get a FAP in these specialities?

Also, is age a factor, by the time I"m done w/residency I'll be about 46-47, is that a problem? What is my life likely to be like if I were in a FAP, would I be working in a facility in the US or is shipment overseas/action areas--Iraq etc a certainty? Also, people here keep mentioning a "gmo tour"---what is that?, is it only found in the hpsp program or is it also common w/FAP? I'm fairly free of connctions, family/kid-wise and wouldn't mind traveling and seeing places like Iraq---but, I wouldn't want to be stationed there out in the desert in tents and/or esp in the line of fire.......is that what I'd be getting myself in for????

Please anyone w/some facts/guidance your input is greatly appreciated!!

Originally Posted by RN-to-MD

Hi, I'm new-ish to the site, I'm getting ready to start GWU in Aug 11 ($55k/yr tuition alone), so I've been looking into milit programs. The FAP looks good to me as I do want to do a civ residency, but I'm interested in pathology (clinical not forensic) and derm----anyone can direct me to a place/website where I can see if any of the major branches --army, navy, etc would offer FAP programs to docs who want to specialize in these fields. Anybody out there w/a sense of how likely I am to get a FAP in these specialities?

Also, is age a factor, by the time I"m done w/residency I'll be about 46-47, is that a problem? What is my life likely to be like if I were in a FAP, would I be working in a facility in the US or is shipment overseas/action areas--Iraq etc a certainty? Also, people here keep mentioning a "gmo tour"---what is that?, is it only found in the hpsp program or is it also common w/FAP? I'm fairly free of connctions, family/kid-wise and wouldn't mind traveling and seeing places like Iraq---but, I wouldn't want to be stationed there out in the desert in tents and/or esp in the line of fire.......is that what I'd be getting myself in for????

Please anyone w/some facts/guidance your input is greatly appreciated!!

Just read around this site for a while and gather info. You have bunch to learn. Post #1 in this thread has a link to click to read about FAP. I do know it varies from year to year which specialties they accept based on the needs of the military. I do not know if pathology or derm would qualify as ones they offer often.

Age may be a factor. I'm not sure if there is an age cutoff for these programs. There may be since the military likes deployable physicians.

And if you aren't willing to go spend some time deployed in Iraq, then the military is probably not the way to go. Things are safe for the most part, but practicing medicine is a combat zone is never without it's risk.

Oh, and GMO is a General Medical Officer (in the AF or Navy this could be called a Flight Surgeon or the Navy has a few others as well). This usually occurs for people who do HPSP and don't match into a residency (or some people volunteer for it to serve their time, get out, and then do a civilian residency or to get into a more competitive military residency two years later). A person would do one internship year, then assigned to a unit or squadron to serve as their physician for two years. Many see this as a huge risk to joining the military because it delays or disrupts training, but it is a risk you have to be willing to take if you join the military. I'm not sure how common this is with FAP, but it can be quite common with HPSP depending on the branch joined.

Again, read some more on this site. There is a ton of info.

Originally Posted by RN-to-MD

Hi, I'm new-ish to the site, I'm getting ready to start GWU in Aug 11 ($55k/yr tuition alone), so I've been looking into milit programs. The FAP looks good to me as I do want to do a civ residency, but I'm interested in pathology (clinical not forensic) and derm----anyone can direct me to a place/website where I can see if any of the major branches --army, navy, etc would offer FAP programs to docs who want to specialize in these fields. Anybody out there w/a sense of how likely I am to get a FAP in these specialities?

Also, is age a factor, by the time I"m done w/residency I'll be about 46-47, is that a problem? What is my life likely to be like if I were in a FAP, would I be working in a facility in the US or is shipment overseas/action areas--Iraq etc a certainty? Also, people here keep mentioning a "gmo tour"---what is that?, is it only found in the hpsp program or is it also common w/FAP? I'm fairly free of connctions, family/kid-wise and wouldn't mind traveling and seeing places like Iraq---but, I wouldn't want to be stationed there out in the desert in tents and/or esp in the line of fire.......is that what I'd be getting myself in for????

Please anyone w/some facts/guidance your input is greatly appreciated!!

Yes, age will be an issue. Typical cut off is 42. They can do waivers, but it will depend on the applicant pool.

FAP for derm and path are unlikely. Army and Navy seem to have plenty via HPSP/GME. I can't recall any Navy FAPs for either in the past 5 years. You would have to check with recruiters for availability and it does change from year to year. Air Force would be the most likely since they outsource much of their GME.

There is a lot of discussion about GMOs on this forum, you can search them. Army has been known to send derm and path out as General Medical Officers.

It is hard to say what global operations will look like when you would be graduating and ready to practice, but it is best to anticipate it will be like today. If you join expect to deploy. Plan for worst case (desert, tent, line of fire) If that is not acceptable to you. Reconsider.

So i am a little confused here about the HPSP and how you have to payback your scholarship. If i do a military residency that is 5 years long, does that count as my 4 years repayment for the scholarship? would i be done when im done with my residency or would i have to serve more time on active duty if i do a 5 year residency program?

Originally Posted by mpjhballer8

So i am a little confused here about the HPSP and how you have to payback your scholarship. If i do a military residency that is 5 years long, does that count as my 4 years repayment for the scholarship? would i be done when im done with my residency or would i have to serve more time on active duty if i do a 5 year residency program?

Unfortunately, that is not how the payback process works. You will incur a year of payback for each year of residency. In your case, after 5 years of residency you would owe 5 years on active duty. The good news is that the 4 years you owe for HPSP can be payed back concurrently with the time owed for residency. Hope that helps clarify.

Originally Posted by 20FutureMD11

Does anyone know if USUHS accepts single parents?

If you are a single parent, you need to put together your contingency plan.

Originally Posted by Dillan

If you are a single parent, you need to put together your contingency plan.

Probably want to check post dates before engaging with a pithy reply.

Looking for either a 4th year or current resident in EM that has rotated either at San Antonio or Wright Pat for some advice. Anyone out there?

This is a Sticky about HPSP, USUHS, FAP. Please do not post random thoughts or questions here. Either add your post to an existing thread that's relevant or start a new thread.

Originally Posted by RN-to-MD

Hi, I'm new-ish to the site, I'm getting ready to start GWU in Aug 11 ($55k/yr tuition alone), so I've been looking into milit programs. The FAP looks good to me as I do want to do a civ residency, but I'm interested in pathology (clinical not forensic) and derm----anyone can direct me to a place/website where I can see if any of the major branches --army, navy, etc would offer FAP programs to docs who want to specialize in these fields. Anybody out there w/a sense of how likely I am to get a FAP in these specialities?

Also, is age a factor, by the time I"m done w/residency I'll be about 46-47, is that a problem? What is my life likely to be like if I were in a FAP, would I be working in a facility in the US or is shipment overseas/action areas--Iraq etc a certainty? Also, people here keep mentioning a "gmo tour"---what is that?, is it only found in the hpsp program or is it also common w/FAP? I'm fairly free of connctions, family/kid-wise and wouldn't mind traveling and seeing places like Iraq---but, I wouldn't want to be stationed there out in the desert in tents and/or esp in the line of fire.......is that what I'd be getting myself in for????

Please anyone w/some facts/guidance your input is greatly appreciated!!

I have heard AF path was not giving out FAP due to adequate numbers of that specialty. You can always talk to an AF recruiter (but verify independently what they say). More than likely, if you get trained in a specialty you will deploy in that specialty but there are plenty of exceptions to that in my experience.

Any PharmD students currently enrolled in HSCP? I'm just curious at what point you applied for HSCP. My understanding is that you can do it as soon as you are accepted in your PharmD school. Or is that just for MC students. In any case, I'd love to hit somebody up with some questions.

Hi All!
This is the first time I've ever posted on a forum, so please bear with me. I've spent a lot of time reading through all the posts on here and I'm so glad I came across this website - it's answered a lot of questions!
I do have a couple questions of my own, however, if there is anyone willing to reply:
Here is some background on me first though:

To make a long story short, I was a nursing major way back in '05, quit college because I was heading down a path of destruction, GPA spiraling downward all the while. I joined the Army in '06 - Psychological Operation, learned Thai, jumped from planes, met my hubby, you know the drill. It was in the Army that someone told me about the PA program. I built my packet, but never submitted because my head was in the clouds with an upcoming marriage - didn't want to leave for 2+ years, etc. (tisk, tisk, I know) - got my stripes, then got pregnant, then got out. And now I'm back in school. The initial plan was to go to PA school (and I will still apply to PA school after grad), but then I saw USUHS and almost flew out of my seat! Medical school + paid tuition + a paycheck + Army - WOO!

That was still kind of a long story - Well, here is what I'm working with now:
I'm 27, Biology major, prior service, 3.98 GPA - this should stay fairly constant since I actually take school serious this time, no MCAT yet, and not much clinical experience. I will graduate in December 2013 so I have a little time.

So, finally, my questions:
1) Should I get my butt in gear to get some clinical experience? I'm juggling full-time school, a two-year old, and a husband who is about to start his 3-year recruiting contract. If I don't have to add more to my plate, I don't want to. I have some time during the summers, but for the most part, I'm cramming classes in the summer to graduate in a timely manner. I do have some "experience", but nothing really on paper - I volunteered at a children's hospital at 16 y/o, took CLS, and another, more advanced CLS in my Army career, and I had to work a detail when I was a Joe at Robin Sage - since I was the only female, they made me the "medic" and I shadowed the SF medics and did a lot of IVs, physicals, imaginary field work. I also did work study in Sports Medicine, and took an EMT Basic course but had to drop out the last two weeks because I was pregnant and had some issues and couldn't finish - so there is a lot of stuff there - just nothing on paper.... Advice?

2)I got out of my first enlistment on Chapter 8 (pregnancy) - it was only 6mos early, but early nonetheless. Will this be an issue? I don't want to seem like a quitter - I just thought at the time that it was the right thing to do and we didn't have a family care plan at the time in case we were both deployed (we do now thanks to retired grandparents!)

3)How is it now that the Army is downsizing? Is it harder to get in, or is it fairly constant?

4) What is life as an Army physician like? Being in a Special Ops unit spoiled me a little - work hard when you need to and when you don't need to, it's early days...lol. I don't expect it to be like that, but just wondering if I'll be working 70hrs/week or a 9-5 job, shiftwork, etc. And also how do deployments work? Are they 1yr rotations, 6mos, everyone deploys, you can pick and choose? In my old unit we (sort of) got to choose our missions - spoiled again - and I don't expect it to be that way.

That is it - if there is anything else that you would advise/recommend please let me know - I still have a little while before I have to start applying, but it will be here before I know it. Thanks in advance!! Now to stop procrastinating and study microbiology (yay germs ).

My application for an Army HPSP was denied today on the basis that I have a 7 in the physical science section of my MCAT. Everything else in the packet is good, (3 years experience as an emergency room nurse, 3.8 GPA with both a bachelors of science and masters degree, research experience and publications as a first author, letters of recommendation from leaders within the medical and materials sciences/chemistry communities, passed MEPS without any problems physically I'm in very good shape). My recruiter suggested that I retake the MCAT but with only 3 months before I start medical school and a full acceptance in hand, I have very little inclination to do so. If I come back and apply for a 3 year scholarship will I face the same problem with my MCAT score? If so is there any alternative route I could take that will provide me with financial assistance while in school?

Originally Posted by gonzo87

My application for an Army HPSP was denied today on the basis that I have a 7 in the physical science section of my MCAT. Everything else in the packet is good, (3 years experience as an emergency room nurse, 3.8 GPA with both a bachelors of science and masters degree, research experience and publications as a first author, letters of recommendation from leaders within the medical and materials sciences/chemistry communities, passed MEPS without any problems physically I'm in very good shape). My recruiter suggested that I retake the MCAT but with only 3 months before I start medical school and a full acceptance in hand, I have very little inclination to do so. If I come back and apply for a 3 year scholarship will I face the same problem with my MCAT score? If so is there any alternative route I could take that will provide me with financial assistance while in school?

1. You are welcome to apply for a three year scholarship with the same MCAT, however, you will need to provide your first and second semester transcripts along with the application.

2. The only other option that comes to mind would be to apply to the other services.

Still a bit unclear about the HPSP...

If I apply for this scholarship and get accepted, will I serve after medical school or can I wait until after I complete a civilian residency?

Originally Posted by USArmyHPSP

1. You are welcome to apply for a three year scholarship with the same MCAT, however, you will need to provide your first and second semester transcripts along with the application.

2. The only other option that comes to mind would be to apply to the other services.

I thought that you could request an MCAT waiver for not scoring an 8 or above in each section. Is this not so?

You can request a waiver for a score below 8, but you are not very competitive. Applications are up, so there is more room to say no to lower scoring applicants.

Originally Posted by NavyFP

You can request a waiver for a score below 8, but you are not very competitive. Applications are up, so there is more room to say no to lower scoring applicants.

Thanks for responding so quickly! If only the powers that be at AMEDD would respond as quickly and in a favorable manner

Originally Posted by NavyRad

Unfortunately, that is not how the payback process works. You will incur a year of payback for each year of residency. In your case, after 5 years of residency you would owe 5 years on active duty. The good news is that the 4 years you owe for HPSP can be payed back concurrently with the time owed for residency. Hope that helps clarify.

So basically this:

1) I get into Med school.

2) I apply for HPSP. If I get in, pass physical.

3) I complete Med school. Owe 4 years for 4 years of money.

a) I apply mil residency, get in, must serve (is this in my choice of residency, like what is normally done on Match Day?)

b) I don't get mil residency, defer into civ residency (this is where I Match into a program on Match Day, right?)

Which one of these residencies count towards AD repayment?

5) Max 8 years contract, so whatever service in active duty counts towards those 8. But residency doesn't count. But AD repayment from med school can be con-current with what you owe from residency?

6) While serving in AD, you are "deployed" or on base yes? So during this time, can you be moved?

Maybe I need more concrete numbers as examples.

Hey guys
So I've applied for the Navy HPSP, and I was wondering if anyone knew if going to ODS (I don't know what the other branches call their "officer training") is covered by the military clause, since you get orders to report and it's considered active duty??

Originally Posted by mwahnster

Hey guys
So I've applied for the Navy HPSP, and I was wondering if anyone knew if going to ODS (I don't know what the other branches call their "officer training") is covered by the military clause, since you get orders to report and it's considered active duty??

Are you talking about getting out of a lease?

Originally Posted by NavyFP

Are you talking about getting out of a lease?

yea, sorry I didn't specify

Originally Posted by mwahnster

yea, sorry I didn't specify

I don't think that will work under the Soldier and Sailors Relief Act.

Is one eligible to apply only after acceptance into a medical school?

Should we get the ball rolling before an official acceptance?

Originally Posted by KinesStudent

Is one eligible to apply only after acceptance into a medical school?

Should we get the ball rolling before an official acceptance?

You can get the ball rolling before an acceptance. Probably best to do it that way. Then, once you have an acceptance, it goes pretty quickly. Everything with the military is a paperwork nightmare so start early.

Originally Posted by Cooperd0g

You can get the ball rolling before an acceptance. Probably best to do it that way. Then, once you have an acceptance, it goes pretty quickly. Everything with the military is a paperwork nightmare so start early.

Thanks. Now to decide which branch to call..

But really, you should not apply. And if you're in, you can withdraw in your first two years without penalty.

You will be a better physician, with better training, and a competent staff if you do.

Inside, you will be frustrated by a system that provides substandard medical care with poor customer service and a host of inefficiency. You will be ashamed of the incompetence of your peers and you family suffers for the ridiculous tasks you have to perform as a physician.

Originally Posted by AirForceMD

But really, you should not apply. And if you're in, you can withdraw in your first two years without penalty.

You will be a better physician, with better training, and a competent staff if you do.

Inside, you will be frustrated by a system that provides substandard medical care with poor customer service and a host of inefficiency. You will be ashamed of the incompetence of your peers and you family suffers for the ridiculous tasks you have to perform as a physician.

Effect change?

Talking about paperwork nightmare. I am a second year medical student and received a 3 year scholarship with the Air Force. I had my commissioning ceremony on September 17th (late in the process) and my scroll wasn't approved till October 1st for the new fiscal year. Now I haven't received any stipend for the last 3 months not to mention that today the recruiter in charge of my case asked me to sign a new FY13 for the new fiscal year. What a nightmare! I'm starting to have feelings that I shouldn't have done this at all and I haven't even started. Tell me what your experience has been regarding getting paid.

I am a pre-med student and I have recently started looking into usush. I have some hearing loss in one ear. Is there no hope for me? I found some numbers for the standards of the dodmerb. I have to find what mine are. Is there a little more allowance for usush or is it all the same for anything in the military?

I am looking into Uniformed Services University. I am new to this, so I am unsure about some things. I was born with a bit of a defect in my middle ear, so I have some hearing loss in one ear. I had middle ear surgery when I was 10 years old. It was more of an exploratory surgery and nothing was really changed. I was given a hearing aid when I was younger, but I have not used it. I have gotten along in everything I do just fine, so the hearing loss does not seem to affect me very much.

I read that inner ear surgery and the certain amount of hearing loss disqualifies a person. Then I read about the waiver stuff. I do not completely understand it. Is there no hope for me? Should I just forget about it or do they look at each case by itself and then determine? I guess I am looking for an answer about whether or not I should pursue this or forget it.

Originally Posted by AirForceMD

But really, you should not apply. And if you're in, you can withdraw in your first two years without penalty.

You will be a better physician, with better training, and a competent staff if you do.

Inside, you will be frustrated by a system that provides substandard medical care with poor customer service and a host of inefficiency. You will be ashamed of the incompetence of your peers and you family suffers for the ridiculous tasks you have to perform as a physician.

No! You can't withdraw from USUHS! Its a 7-year stint! You are thinking about the service academies that let you leave after the first two years.

#### Please also read the Military Medicine PRO and Con forum for great information. ###

I met with a recruiter and I don't completely believe what he was telling me about this program. I would really appreciate clarification.

The recruiter told me that: Medical school + Residency (of my choice- civilian or air force) with the 4 year HPSP would result in a 3 year military pay back.

My understanding (from reading posts on SDN, etc) was that you pay back 1 year of time for every year of medical school the military pays for. Then, if your residency is longer than your 4 years of medical school, you pay back the military 1 year for every year you are in your residency (up to 8 years military pay back).

Also, I thought there was some sort of a penalty for taking a civilian residency versus a military residency.

I brought all of this up multiple times, but was told that I would have a maximum of a 3 year pay back. It doesn't seem right.

Please help me figure this out! Thanks

Originally Posted by Runner1212

I met with a recruiter and I don't completely believe what he was telling me about this program. I would really appreciate clarification.

The recruiter told me that: Medical school + Residency (of my choice- civilian or air force) with the 4 year HPSP would result in a 3 year military pay back.

My understanding (from reading posts on SDN, etc) was that you pay back 1 year of time for every year of medical school the military pays for. Then, if your residency is longer than your 4 years of medical school, you pay back the military 1 year for every year you are in your residency (up to 8 years military pay back).

Also, I thought there was some sort of a penalty for taking a civilian residency versus a military residency.

I brought all of this up multiple times, but was told that I would have a maximum of a 3 year pay back. It doesn't seem right.

Please help me figure this out! Thanks

Your payback at the end of your military residency will be EITHER the length of your HPSP commitment OR the length of your residency commitment (not counting Intern year), whichever is more. If you do a GMO tour (do you understand those?) then the time you owe for a residency you do at the end of your GMO tour will be either the length of the residency or the length of the time you have left on your contract at the end of your residency, whichever is more.

When you take the HPSP scholarship you need to ask permission to do the civilian match. If they say no you can't do it, you have to do the military match. Plan for that to happen as deferments are rare. If they let you apply for a civilian residency, it doesn't affect your payback in any way. The only penalty is that civilian residency time doesn't count towards promotion or retirement, while a Navy residency does. Which is a big deal if you want to make a career out of it, but not otherwise.

Originally Posted by Perrotfish

Your payback at the end of your military residency will be EITHER the length of your HPSP commitment OR the length of your residency commitment (not counting Intern year), whichever is more. If you do a GMO tour (do you understand those?) then the time you owe for a residency you do at the end of your GMO tour will be either the length of the residency or the length of the time you have left on your contract at the end of your residency, whichever is more.

When you take the HPSP scholarship you need to ask permission to do the civilian match. If they say no you can't do it, you have to do the military match. Plan for that to happen as deferments are rare. If they let you apply for a civilian residency, it doesn't affect your payback in any way. The only penalty is that civilian residency time doesn't count towards promotion or retirement, while a Navy residency does. Which is a big deal if you want to make a career out of it, but not otherwise.

Thank you! That helps a lot.

The payback time that you explained is right in line with what I believed to be true. The recruiter told me that I would have a maximum of a 3 year payback. I told him what I understood... and he said no.

I am not completely clear on the GMO/Flight Surgeon route. My understanding was that if you didn't match, then you would take a GMO tour and then try to match for your specialty at the end of that. I asked the recruiter to clarify for me and he said that I don't need to worry about matching because I can take the route of military or civilian residency. He also said that I don't need to worry about GMO tours because I won't have to take a GMO tour unless I volunteer for one.

I am very frustrated with the information the recruiter told me. I kept on telling him that the information that he was giving me goes against pretty much everything that I've read and he still went along with his story. Joining the Air Force is a BIG decision and I think they need to be straight with us.

Runner, most likely the recruiter isn't trying to mislead you; they just don't know. They are misinformed, believe what they say, or just don't care enough to learn the details of situations like the detailed ones you ask.