intern year and residency in Ireland - thank you!

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drum_doc

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Hi there,
I have some questions about Irish medical training and I would be very grateful for any help. I will be graduating next year in Poland and I was wondering if it is difficult to get an intern placement in an Irish hospital? Does Ireland accept foreigners for the intern year or all of the places are filled with Irish medical schools graduates? I would be also very happy, if someone could write some practical information about application procedure for the intern year? I have read some clues on the medical council web site, but it's always better to hear it from a student :)
My second question concerns specialist training in Ireland. I'm planing to start pediatric surgery or general surgery. Is it difficult to start a specialist training? How shall I applicate for a post? Is there some sort of an exam or you're accepted after an interview?
Thanks a lot for any information on these matters.
Matthew
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drum_doc said:
Hi there,
I have some questions about Irish medical training and I would be very grateful for any help. I will be graduating next year in Poland and I was wondering if it is difficult to get an intern placement in an Irish hospital? Does Ireland accept foreigners for the intern year or all of the places are filled with Irish medical schools graduates? I would be also very happy, if someone could write some practical information about application procedure for the intern year? I have read some clues on the medical council web site, but it's always better to hear it from a student :)
My second question concerns specialist training in Ireland. I'm planing to start pediatric surgery or general surgery. Is it difficult to start a specialist training? How shall I applicate for a post? Is there some sort of an exam or you're accepted after an interview?
Thanks a lot for any information on these matters.
Matthew
Click to expand...

Under EU law you're entitled to the same opportunities as Irish students. Irish hospitals cannot discriminate against applicants from other EU states.
 
dr strangelove said:
Under EU law you're entitled to the same opportunities as Irish students. Irish hospitals cannot discriminate against applicants from other EU states.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I'd like to know, how is it like for Irish students? Do you have 5 applicants for every training post or is it quite easy to specialize in what you want?
 
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drum_doc said:
Thanks, but I'd like to know, how is it like for Irish students? Do you have 5 applicants for every training post or is it quite easy to specialize in what you want?
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For internships, it shouldn't be a problem to get a spot somewhere in the country. Obviously, English fluency is a must but that goes for any job in Ireland.

As for training posts, it really depends what you want to get into. There is definitely competition for most posts and that results in some people having to do an extra year as a house officer, but everyone will get a post eventually. Certain things, like orthopaedics, are notoriously difficult to get into.
 
Thank you very much for your answers! Could you also name some other specialties that are difficult to get into?
 
Could you please explain to me, what is he procedure of applying for the intern year? Shall I send some forms to the Irish Medical Council or rather contact directly hospitals? What is the deadline for sending the documents? And how does the matching mechanism work? Does it depend on grades or other qualities?
Thanks a lot!
 
First of all, you are VERY unlikely to get an intern position in Ireland. Unlike the UK, Ireland does not have a national matching system for intern positions. Graduates from each of the medical schools stay as interns in the hospitals associated with that particular medical school. The system is usually administered by the various medical schools once the final results are released.

As I'm sure you are aware, due to the nature of medical school admissions in Ireland there are many more medical graduates than intern positions. However, with most of the non-EU graduates leaving once they qualify to pursue intern posts in other countries, it balances things out but there are still more graduates looking for intern jobs than there are posts available.

If you want to come to Ireland to train, I would suggest entering the system as an SHO or a Registrar...which is when most foreign doctors come to Ireland.

Best of luck! :)
 
Thanks. I didn't know that. Actually, I've read that only 350 out of 550 intern places are taken each year. And it is information from the Ireland Medical Council (web site). Makes me a bit sad, cause I just wanted to be closer to my beloved Guiness :)
 
drum_doc said:
Thanks. I didn't know that. Actually, I've read that only 350 out of 550 intern places are taken each year. And it is information from the Ireland Medical Council (web site). Makes me a bit sad, cause I just wanted to be closer to my beloved Guiness :)
Click to expand...

There are only about ~350-400 intern places. There are ~750 medical graduates with about 50% of them leaving the country which equates to the number of non-EU graduates...
 
drum_doc said:
Could you please explain to me, what is he procedure of applying for the intern year? Shall I send some forms to the Irish Medical Council or rather contact directly hospitals? What is the deadline for sending the documents? And how does the matching mechanism work? Does it depend on grades or other qualities?
Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...
In order to assess what need to be done first ... are you an EU citizen (not just a Polish final med)?
 
Hey, as an EEA citizen working in Ireland:
-As Trinners mentioned, intern posts are allocated mainly to graduates from the medical school that the hospital is attached to. This year, there were not enough interns to fill up all the posts in my hospital, which is in Dublin. I am sure the situation must be similar outside of Dublin.
-To apply for intern posts, contact the hospitals that you would like to apply to. They will tell you about procedures etc. Usually, applications must be in by February. If you're not a graduate from an Irish medical school, you may want to send your CV in advance to whoever picks the interns - it will help if your name is familiar. You will not be discriminated against as you are an EU citizen, but you will be discriminated against for not being a graduate from "their" medical school.
-After intership, most people would do two years as a Senior House Officer. The easiest thing is to get into a scheme, which will rotate you through 4-8 different specialties during the 2 years. These are available in Medicine, Paediatrics, Surgery and General Practice (possibly other specialties). However, schemes are competitive, but getting a scheme outside of Dublin is definitely feasible. Surgical schemes have a centralised application procedure, whereas for Medicine and Paediatrics it's usually county-wide applications.
Some people will apply for 6-month jobs as an SHO, and make their own rotation. It works great, but you have less jobs to pick from and often they are outside of Dublin. Also, you need to check with the RCSI or RCPI to make sure that "your" rotation has the requisite number of general posts, specialised posts etc.
-After SHO, most people end up taking 1-year posts as registrars. The goal is to get enough experience to enter a Specialist Registrar scheme. These are in medical or surgical subspecialties and last for 5 years. Unfortunately, they are in general hugely competitive. People wait for years to get accepted, or else get the f... out of here to start residency in the US.
-And then, you can start applying for consultancy positions - it is almost unheard of that non-Irish get these positions, except as locums (while other permanent consultants are away on sick leave or holiday etc).

Good luck!
 
dr.op said:
Hey, as an EEA citizen working in Ireland:
-As Trinners mentioned, intern posts are allocated mainly to graduates from the medical school that the hospital is attached to. This year, there were not enough interns to fill up all the posts in my hospital, which is in Dublin. I am sure the situation must be similar outside of Dublin.
-To apply for intern posts, contact the hospitals that you would like to apply to. They will tell you about procedures etc. Usually, applications must be in by February. If you're not a graduate from an Irish medical school, you may want to send your CV in advance to whoever picks the interns - it will help if your name is familiar. You will not be discriminated against as you are an EU citizen, but you will be discriminated against for not being a graduate from "their" medical school.
-After intership, most people would do two years as a Senior House Officer. The easiest thing is to get into a scheme, which will rotate you through 4-8 different specialties during the 2 years. These are available in Medicine, Paediatrics, Surgery and General Practice (possibly other specialties). However, schemes are competitive, but getting a scheme outside of Dublin is definitely feasible. Surgical schemes have a centralised application procedure, whereas for Medicine and Paediatrics it's usually county-wide applications.
Some people will apply for 6-month jobs as an SHO, and make their own rotation. It works great, but you have less jobs to pick from and often they are outside of Dublin. Also, you need to check with the RCSI or RCPI to make sure that "your" rotation has the requisite number of general posts, specialised posts etc.
-After SHO, most people end up taking 1-year posts as registrars. The goal is to get enough experience to enter a Specialist Registrar scheme. These are in medical or surgical subspecialties and last for 5 years. Unfortunately, they are in general hugely competitive. People wait for years to get accepted, or else get the f... out of here to start residency in the US.
-And then, you can start applying for consultancy positions - it is almost unheard of that non-Irish get these positions, except as locums (while other permanent consultants are away on sick leave or holiday etc).

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Yup, that is pretty much dead on! Nice one dr.op :D

I would assume you didn't go to Vincent's as I heard that this years class had >10 people (Irish that is) that didn't get intern spots. Usually in Dublin, Beaumont, James's and Tallaght have spots open after they have filled their intern spots with RCSI and Trinity grads respectively.
 
hello! my name is meriem i'm from algeria, 24 years old and have been graduated this year in general medicine. i don't know how the medical studies in ireland are done, but in algeria it's 7 years for beeing a general doctor (the diploma is called doctorate of medicine), then there is an exam to pass to apply for specialisation. in fact, i want to do neurosurgery, and i don't know if it's possible to do it in ireland and how and where to apply. do i have to contact universities or hospitals? is there an exam to pass? do i have to apply for an internal year 1st? can anyone help me please!! thanks in advance.
 
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hello! my name is meriem i'm from algeria, 24 years old and have been graduated this year in general medicine. i don't know how the medical studies in ireland are done, but in algeria it's 7 years for beeing a general doctor (the diploma is called doctorate of medicine), then there is an exam to pass to apply for specialisation. in fact, i want to do neurosurgery, and i don't know if it's possible to do it in ireland and how and where to apply. do i have to contact universities or hospitals? is there an exam to pass? do i have to apply for an internal year 1st? can anyone help me please!! thanks in advance.
 
Hey meriem, I don't know enough about the details, but check the www.medicalcouncil.ie website for info about Irish registration and their requirements. Good luck!
 
dr.op said:
Hey meriem, I don't know enough about the details, but check the www.medicalcouncil.ie website for info about Irish registration and their requirements. Good luck!
Click to expand...


thank u soooo much!!! i've found many interesting informations!!!!
 
Hy, i'm from romania; i' m in a third grade internal (general) medicine residency;please, tell me if it's possible to work in UK as a resident of internal medicine and what are the terms: how long, i must pay something for my professional practice in UK, do i get earnings ? Thank you very much !
 
Hy; i have told you that i'm in a third year o internal medicine residency; after i finished medicine school at University of Medicine and Farmacology Timisoara, i had a national exam, and with my score i could decide in favour of internal medicine. My questions are the same. Thank you !
 
Hello everyone:)
I am going to work as an intern from July in Ireland. And I was wondering what is it like?? Is it hard? Will I have someone to show me everything? Or I will be left on my own while working?:confused: I come from Poland, so many things could be different I suppose;) Also, there will be some overtime. How many hours is it? How is it paid ?
If someone could help me with this questions, I would be very grateful:)
Have a nice day:D
 
Welcome to Irish internship.

1) Is it hard? yes. internship everywhere is hard. What makes this particularly hard is that your hours are uncapped, so you will have nights where you will not sleep a wink and then have to stay in until like 8 pm trying to finish your jobs because your day job that next day happens to be hectic. ESPECIALLY in your first couple months, and ESPECIALLY if you start off in surgery :). However, this does get better as you become more proficient in things and you start realizing what to prioritize and you start realizing not to respond to every single thing the nurses try to get you to do.

SWITCH THE BLEEPS WITH YOUR CALL BUDDY. Make a decision who will take first sleep. You take or have your buddy take your bleep at midnight. Whoever takes first sleep will sleep from 12 to 4 am. Switch the bleeps at 4 am so that whoever takes second sleep works from 4 am to 8 am. DO NOT LEAVE CRAP WORK FOR YOUR BUDDY to do.

2) Will you have someone to show you everything? Honestly...not all the time. And in some cases, your higher ups may not know how to do things cuz they haven't ever had to do it. Even stupid things like changing suprapubic catheters.

3) You will be left alone at some points. Particularly if you start off in surgery. In surgery, interns run the wards while the reg's and SHO's go to theatre. They will be accessible to answer questions over the phone, but if they are in surgery they may not be able to answer.

4) your work week is a 39 hour week. For the first 15 hours after that, you are paid 1.25 over (time and a quarter). For hours after that, then I think it's meant to be 1.5 (time and a half) over. Sundays and bank holiday Mondays are double time. Your basic salary is about 33,500 a year but with overtime, you will definitely make over 60,000. You are not taxed until after about 6 months of working, since there's a threshold limit you earn before taxation starts.

IF YOU ARE IN SURGERY, MAKE SURE TO GET YOUR SOCIAL WELFARE BOOKS by calling the MRA section of the social welfare office - I don't know the number off hand but someone working with you will. You can make a crapload of money, especially if you're in orthopaedics.

I'll make a tips thread soon.
 
Oh, read Intern Blues or House of God or Interns etc. the scenarios and feelings in those books are pretty much what you're going to feel. Don't worry, you'll survive and you'll make a lot of money doing so. But it will be very high pressure at times and especially in the first month, you will see the whole range of emotions from everyone. In the first week, one of my friends became so frustrated at begging cardiology for echoes (preop assessment) which the anaesthetist wanted that she ended up breaking down crying in front of the echo technician (well, she got her echo...).

I was doing Orthopaedics first, and nearly on my third or fourth day, a vac dressing that adhered to the patient's posterior tibial artery sheared off, blood everywhere, patient (who's opioid tolerance was very high) screaming and cursing the whole ward down which sent all the other ortho crazies going loolah on the ward. And all of us interns being like deers in headlights.

As horrible as call is, it's a very good learning experience. Until your learning plateaus by like April your following year.
 
Thank you very much for answering :D This has cleared up my mind what it's gonna be like. I was thinking that interns also can go to theatre?? If not, I would be very disappointed, because I like this very much:/ I hope for the best;)
I'm looking forward to reading your tips;P
 
If you're motivated and not too busy in your day job, you can go into theatre. Some specialties / teams actually require it when they get slammed. I tried to go in Ortho but I was always too busy. Some people when it slowed down went in though. And when I did general surgery I could have gone into theatre loads, but I'm really not interested in general, so I didn't. You basically make your own opportunities. It would be a very good idea if you tried to start doing some research things as well during internship.
 
It is not fun, its like being a glorified secretary. My first 6 months i did surg, Neuro and then the prof team. During these 2 rotations i got to scrub in once (peri anal abcess). With sorting out scans, consults, radio, discharges.....not to mention, interns do most of the blood work, IV, bloods, first dose A/B plus cliniks, confrences........It is a bit of a crap shoot as some teams have shorter lists and less patients and therfore have more time on their hands and could then scrub in. I did it in 06-07 and they were decreasing the amount of on calls but usually once a week. It was tuff rounds at 7 and then rounds at 7 at night so therfore shifts were either 13 hours or 37 hours. There is nothing better than after being there for like 30 hours and being called at 4 am in the moring just after you get to the res to come to the ward to resit a IV line.
 
Hi there,
I am a non-EU medical graduate of an EU member country without work experience.
Does anyone have a clue how difficult it might me to get an intership position in Ireland?
Would I stand a better chance going for the temporary registration?
Which specialties are not very competitive in Ireland?
Where all the intern post filled this year?

Thanks a lot in advance for answering my questions.
 
Could someone, please, explain sevral things, concerning internship in Ireland. What acknowledging document does one get after completing the internship year? Does anyone know in which hospitals of Dublin could there be hope to find an internship spot for an EU citizen (I am Lithuanian)? Thank you so much in advance!
 
Beauj said:
It is not fun, its like being a glorified secretary. My first 6 months i did surg, Neuro and then the prof team. During these 2 rotations i got to scrub in once (peri anal abcess). With sorting out scans, consults, radio, discharges.....not to mention, interns do most of the blood work, IV, bloods, first dose A/B plus cliniks, confrences........It is a bit of a crap shoot as some teams have shorter lists and less patients and therfore have more time on their hands and could then scrub in. I did it in 06-07 and they were decreasing the amount of on calls but usually once a week. It was tuff rounds at 7 and then rounds at 7 at night so therfore shifts were either 13 hours or 37 hours. There is nothing better than after being there for like 30 hours and being called at 4 am in the moring just after you get to the res to come to the ward to resit a IV line.
Click to expand...
Beauj said it. Just think about the money. Think the entire year about money money money. I spent 5 hours calling 20 different methadone clinics across Ireland once for this waste of space druggie to be discharged. I know I really shouldn't make judgments but I couldn't believe I was putting in that much effort for something completely non-medical.

You learn a lot during call there. But you also spend the whole year so angry you spit on a daily basis. And it also turns the nicest people into the most ferocious monsters.

Anyway, not to be completely demoralizing, it is a useful experience. But except for the money, I am glad I will never have to do it again.
 
docOO7 said:
Hi there,
I am a non-EU medical graduate of an EU member country without work experience.
Does anyone have a clue how difficult it might me to get an intership position in Ireland?
Would I stand a better chance going for the temporary registration?
Which specialties are not very competitive in Ireland?
Where all the intern post filled this year?

Thanks a lot in advance for answering my questions.
Click to expand...
First of all, Internship in Ireland/UK is nothing like internship in the US. You do not specialize. There is no competitive specialty at intern level. Internship is 6 months medicine, 6 months surgery. There are more competitive combined jobs depending what specialties people eventually want to go into, but generally everyone ends up being happy with their placements. Internship placement is allocated based on 1) EU vs. non-EU 2) merit / grades after finals in Ireland.

Intern posts are first and foremost given to graduates of Irish schools. The EU vs. non-EU controversy continues to be prominent. I, as a non-EU grad of an Irish school was fortunate to be placed. However, 16 non-EUs in my class were not given places. It depends on demand. If demand for intern positions is not high during a given year, there will be more opportunities for non-EU Irish grads and EU non-Irish grads to be given spots. Both of these would take precendence over non-EU, non-Irish grads. And usually, there are not really that many vacant spots.

When you apply for internship, you get intern registration. You can only get temporary registration after your intern years (if you didn't train in Ireland). Check out www.medicalcouncil.ie .

This year, there were I think 5 vacancies between St. James's Hospital and Tallaght hospital (Trinity's hospitals). I think these vacancies were filled by overflow from the other schools. And it only happened because that class learned from my class's trouble with obtaining spots. Many of the non-EUs returned home straight after graduation, instead of wanting to stay like many of my year.
 
Am planning professional and family life and because of family reasons might need to go to Ireland, do my internship there.

This might sound a stupid question to you, but to me is very important... Can somebody tell me, if in Ireland interns get any vacation? How and when is that organized?

Could somebody, please, help? :confused:
 
You give the hospitals your preferences. It's broken up into 3 weeks per 6 months. Usually people do 2 weeks then 1 week in any given semester, but you can do all 3 weeks if you really need to.
 
leorl said:
You give the hospitals your preferences. It's broken up into 3 weeks per 6 months. Usually people do 2 weeks then 1 week in any given semester, but you can do all 3 weeks if you really need to.
Click to expand...

Thank You!
 
Hi everyone

i'm currently studying medicine in Malaysia (i'm a Malaysian citizen by the way) and i will be doing my clinical in Scotland

upon graduation, i am considered a medical graduate from Scotland

i would like to know

is it possible for me to stay back in scotland and work there? as intern? and how about specialization?

thank you very much
 
visit the UK's GMC website and contact them directly for answers to your questions. theoretically, you should be able to find F1 spots if you are considered a scottish / UK graduate. Theoretically.
 
The UK's internship at the moment is broken into two years - foundation 1 and foundation 2. It was meant to defray the intensity of the intern year. However, really it just made 2 years of internship.
 
hence the F1 spot

i see....

how bout securing a permanent job there? they do give priorities to scottish med school grad, right?
 
leorl is it hard for a non-eu with a work permit to get a f spot?and is it easier in ireland or the uk
 
It is difficult for Non-EU Non-Irish grads to get internship jobs in Ireland as there are far too many graduates and limited posts.

As for the UK, there are immigration laws that prevent NHS hospitals in taking Non-EU citizens with work permits.

It is virtually impossible for Non-EU citizens to get speciality training in the UK under normal circumstances.
 
ok thanx.regarding the uk, my husband is british (i am non eu),we were living in seperate countries i have read that there is something called ec right.do i benefit coz he is living in the uk and i am in bulgaria but will be moving to the uk or i have to take the ielts and the plab?
 
Hi there,
I am a 3rd yr irish medical student studying in Slovakia.i want to(eventually) do my internship at home in ireland but after reading this page i am now worried that since the students who graduate in ireland will have first preferance i may not get a position.Should i be worried?What hospitals do u recommend applying to?Will the medical council take my grades into consideration?
If someone could help me with these questions i would be very grateful:)
 
Hi there,
Can someone please tell me the 'usual' number of hours that a SHO would do in Dublin hospitals? Is overtime paid when claimed for, regardless of whether it is rostered or not? Also, which formulary is used in Ireland?
Thanks a million!
 
Ok. this is becoming more and more up in there air. Hours - it depends on if you're doing surgery or medicine. You should be prepared to be averaging around 80 hours a week, and if you're doing surgery, it can go up to 120 hours a week. At the moment, there is a war raging regarding pay. The government are basically trying to cut overtime pay, so the amount of overtime NCHD's were once paid my go down. The IMO are obviously trying to fight it, but this may become an issue and people may not be as well paid as before. If they can find an agreement where basic pay goes up but working hours goes down, it may be acceptable. But right now, it's pretty tenuous. Before, yeah...overtime was paid regardless of rostering.
 
Hi ,,
I just finished my internship ,and as much as it's a torture worldwide(as I found out !!)if it's any comfort for any of the new interns ,,we're not paid !!!!:mad:
I was born in Ireland so that gives me an Irish nationality by birth,I'm planning on moving to Ireland and taking on a residency there,, should there be an evaluation asked of me ??:confused:
PLUS would there be any other necessary requirements needed to be fulfilled in my case ? I will be beginning my residency programme in my homeland as ageneral surgeon,though my future ambition is to be a plastic surgeon..hope I can find who can help me...thanks and wish you all the best of luck..:)
 
I would predict, given the happenings this year regarding NCHD pay, that it may become easier for those who would like to return home to Ireland and have EU status to do so. But know what you're walking into. At the moment, the government has cut the overtime pay you're able to receive which dramatically decreases your earnings. They have also cut a portion of the previous training grant. Essentially what this means is that now NCHDs are expected to work for free for nearly 20 hours per week (at least), as the work week was increased to 40-something hours but everyone works at least 60. Not a good time to be in the Irish workforce, with decreased benefits. However, as probably this will deter some of the foreign Irish-trained graduates, it may make it easier for EU people looking for spots. The difficulty here is that it's also becoming difficult for foreign graduates to secure jobs in their home countries.
 
Hi

I'm just finishing my penultimate year of medicine in London (will graduate 2010). I am interested in finiding out a little about applying for internship in Ireland. I am from Co. Armagh and completed my pre-clinical and clinical training in England. Have not managed to find useful information about the application process on the internet.

I believe that unlike the foundation programme in the Uk, Ireland does not have a national application process. Does anyone know of any interns or past interns who trained in the UK and were able to get a job in Ireland? At what stage of the year does the inital application process begin? I understand that students usually get jobs in the hospitals linked their medical school. Which medical school is linked with Dundalk/drogheda?

I have heard that there are a greater number of medical students graduating in 2010 due to the shortening of the course in Trinity - is there likely to be an increase in the number of intern posts as a consequence?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
 
Hi there!!!

im new to this network and i was wondering if anyone could help me with a few questions i have. Im currently starting my final year of medicine in UNiversity College Cork and for personal and professional reasons i really want to do my intern year in Dublin. I know that usually you complete your internship year in a teaching hospital attached to your own university but as i said im hoping to do it in dublin. Im wondering if anyone could tell me what the best way to go about this is?????????

Thanks a million!!
 
ozzierules said:
Hi there!!!

im new to this network and i was wondering if anyone could help me with a few questions i have. Im currently starting my final year of medicine in UNiversity College Cork and for personal and professional reasons i really want to do my intern year in Dublin. I know that usually you complete your internship year in a teaching hospital attached to your own university but as i said im hoping to do it in dublin. Im wondering if anyone could tell me what the best way to go about this is?????????

Thanks a million!!
Click to expand...

First big question - are you an Irish citizen (or an EU citizen)? That itself can determine what spots are open to you.

Most of the Dublin training spots let alone intern spots are competitive enough. UCD's hospitals are pretty much out of bounds as the ratio of Irish grads to intern spots is pretty tight. Surgeons theoretically is the best option as many of their grads are non-Irish and go home as soon as they graduate - the Beaumont hospital, etc.. Trinity's hospitals seem to be in the middle of the road with availability - James' hospital, etc.. Best to contact your student coordinator at UCC to see your options. Otherwise contact the student coordinators themselves at the respective schools. Last resort is to contact the hospitals themselves.

Have your CV ready also before speaking to the coordinators/hospitals!

Another way of trying to beat around it is to get in contact with a specific consultant and see if you can work with them for the necessary duration needed. Their word can really sway the student coordinator's decision for a spot - ie get them to write a letter to the coordinator or to speak with them personally.

Good luck!
 
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