Kaiser salaries for FP: 250,000?

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Someone told me that Kaiser family practioners can start out at about 150k per year, increasing about 30k per year up to 250k

All of those numbers seem unrealistically high to me... can anyone confirm if this is true or not?

Originally Posted by eklope2000

Someone told me that Kaiser family practioners can start out at about 150k per year, increasing about 30k per year up to 250k

All of those numbers seem unrealistically high to me... can anyone confirm if this is true or not?

NOPE...kp fp docs make about 140k and don't go up much from there. the em guys don't even make 250k there. the thing about kp is the benefits/retirement/vacation/sabbatical that get better every yr.
50% of salary at retirement/yr when age+ yrs of service = 80...not a bad deal....

Originally Posted by emedpa

NOPE...kp fp docs make about 140k and don't go up much from there. the em guys don't even make 250k there. the thing about kp is the benefits/retirement/vacation/sabbatical that get better every yr.
50% of salary at retirement/yr when age+ yrs of service = 80...not a bad deal....

hi,

just wonder how much kaiser pays for a recent graduate, especially in california?
i am currently working locum tenens since graduation on 6/06

thanks

Originally Posted by calirvine

hi,

just wonder how much kaiser pays for a recent graduate, especially in california?
i am currently working locum tenens since graduation on 6/06

thanks

Check with kp in california but my memory from my time there was that they start at around 120k and after 2 yrs when you make partner you go to 140k. but keep in mind this is outpt only, minimal procedures, 37.5 hr hr work week with no overhead and a full benefits plan.kp has subspecialists for everything so you will be refering out a lot of stuff. most of the kp fp docs don't do much ob because kp has a gyn dept. lots of bread and butter primary care stuff like htn, niddm, gerd, depression, minor derm,copd, etc

FYI, we had another Kaiser thread not long ago: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=274963

Bread and Butter That's fine for some.

Why don't they just hire a bunch of NP/PA's? Honestly, what are the KP docs in FM doing that a midlevel can't at that point?

My friend got his FP job with Kaiser last year with based salary $140,000.

Originally Posted by Newdoc2002

Why don't they just hire a bunch of NP/PA's? Honestly, what are the KP docs in FM doing that a midlevel can't at that point?

In fairness to KP, even they know the answer to that one. So do you.

I know this is the FP forum, but I was wondering what are the salaries at KP for neurology and psychiatry? Thanks.

The issue is not what an FP CAN DO and what an NP CANNOT DO.

The problem is what an FP is ALLOWED TO DO.

This is where the whole thing gets screwed up because some idiot feels that you are not well trained enough to treat patients. What happens then is that the whole thing builds on itself. What I mean is, if you say something enough, enough people will believe it and will restrict your training. This means the next class of graduates know even less. Now, the specialists can start to say "FP's don't know how to do anything". We know this is all BS because Medicine is something that is LEARNED and I just don't think that some of those IM guys are that much more smarter or have that much more physical ability to do a procedure than some of the FP guys.

Sure, there are people in all specialties and primary care who really can't do procedures or don't want to but my guess is that almost all of the residents in FP can learn to do EGD and colonoscopies if they want and if they get enough cases.

"Why don't they just hire a bunch of NP/PA's? Honestly, what are the KP docs in FM doing that a midlevel can't at that point?"


uh, they do....kp has pcp's who are midlevels in fp, im, peds, and gyn.
it's not that the docs don't know more(they do) but the fact is that anything the avg md would do that the avg midlevel wouldn't is something that kp encourages pcp's to refer to specialists. for example, vasectomies. many fp docs can do them right out of residency but they are all done by urology at kp. ditto colposcopy. ditto treadmills. ditto endometrial biopsy.
ditto sigs and colonoscopies. they are all refered to gi(although at kp many of the scopes are done by pa's with extra training).
kp is not the place to work as an fp doc if you want a broad scope of practice. your scope will be EXACTLY the same as the midlevels you supervise. if you want to do all the fun procedures you learned in residency, do your own treadmills, do ob, etc, kp is not the place for you. it is a cush m-f 9-5 outpt only setting with no nights/ weekends/holidays/call/inpatients where you are using about 50% of your training. that is why a pa or np in the same setting has the same pt load and responsibilities.
I have worked for kp in the past as a pa for > 10 yrs. I would never work there as an md in primary care if I went back to school because I would want to do procedures, round on my own pts in the hospital, and have a scope of practice different than the pa or np in the next office.

Originally Posted by calirvine

hi,

just wonder how much kaiser pays for a recent graduate, especially in california?
i am currently working locum tenens since graduation on 6/06

thanks

why would you want to work for the Big K? The stories I've heard that happen there are awful! And all those scandals in the newspapers...! they settle millions in lawsuits every year. I think one big scandal this year was their dreadful kidney transplant program.

no thank you, after 4 yrs of medschool and a ton of debt, I don't wanna be associated with that mess. but that's just me. and NO, I am not throwing flames.

Emedpa, that was exactly my point. In a system such as KP it will be about the big machine and honestly, they can keep costs down by still having the specialists do the procedures while the FM or PA or NP acts as the gatekeeper. There is no reason to let the FM have a broad scope of practice.

I'm not in favor of it but if it can give the same level of care and costs less then why not? It's a question of finance and patient perspective. If those are met, then the insurer won't care about your scope of practice, if an FP is really the best primary practioner, etc.

The KP model is being emulated here in central Texas by a healthcare system called Scott and White. They are like a giant cloud that cosumes practices and insured as they spread their clinics throughout the area. Their FP's are neutered and their specialists are hard to access, but they give compentent outcomes with their care and they do it cheaper than many. Bigger companies in bigger cities may develop this model of care as cost constraints continue. As a FP, you better make sure you are in a position to practice the way you want or you'll find yourself doing the same thing as the guy who went to school for 4 less years.