DO salary information?

DRKUBA said:

I work in an level 1 trauma center/teaching hospital ER that has about 75% MDs 25% DOs. There is no difference between them and no animosity, poor treatment, or stigma. My N=1 study proves that ERs across the country have no stigma toward DOs.

Click to expand...

There's your answer. ER docs are on hospital salary a lot of the time, meaning IMGs and DOs are welcome as those positions generally pay less. I'm glad you brought up teaching hospitals. Most of these are state-funded which means many of the physicians who are on staff are STATE EMPLOYEES. Last I checked, state employees had the reputation for being underpaid compared to the private sector. That's why the point I made was about Private practice.

By the way, I also work in a level 1 trauma center/teaching hospital. Throughout the hospital and in the ER there are about 50% IMG so does that mean there is no stigma against foreign MDs? News flash, hospitals are a CORPORATION. They make decisions based on the bottom line. If they can find a foreign MD or a DO who will do the job and pay them less, they don't care as much, as long as there is coverage, and the job gets done. Now, a private practice group of 20 MDs is more like a fraternity. They bring on board people they like, admire, and respect as equals. That's drastically different than how a hospital makes its decisions. Are you catching my drift here?

The trend holds true no matter how much you dislike it, DOs and IMGs are favored less in most private practices, but it is seen in varying degrees depending on specialty. Family practice, Pediatrics, EM would see less of a bias than surgery or dermatology, and that's probably where most of the disagreement is coming from. My family members are in Radiology, Orthopaedic surgery, and Ophthalmology which are some of the most difficult fields to enter, especially as a DO so it is not out of the realm of possibility private practice groups in those specialities would be biased against DOs. I honestly don't see how you can dispute this.

Again, you can think what you want to think, and you may be one of a few to buck the trend, but it doesn't change the fact that a bias against DOs exists at all levels, even private practice.

It'sElectric said:

I can assure that there are no barricades to a DO practicing wherever and in whatever field he or she wants.

Click to expand...

After seeing you post this in the other thread there is no point to debate with you any further as you have not a clue.

mecute said:

There's your answer. ER docs are on hospital salary a lot of the time, meaning IMGs and DOs are welcome as those positions generally pay less. I'm glad you brought up teaching hospitals. Most of these are state-funded which means many of the physicians who are on staff are STATE EMPLOYEES. Last I checked, state employees had the reputation for being underpaid compared to the private sector. That's why the point I made was about Private practice.

Click to expand...

Actually, ER docs are in private practice a lot of the time (not all of the time, but a lot of the time), so that kind of refutes that theory of yours. Check out the ER forum, and hopefully you'll gain a little insight.

Secondly, you gotta love when someone cuts and pastes a snippet from a previous post of mine. To help people out, that post came from the following thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=4294205#post4294205

A discussion about where DOs worked. The OP was concerned that DOs never work in academic settings (which was proven to be incorrect). Someone replied with a list of DOs that work in California and do NOT practice family medicine. Here is that list once again:

Adam S. Rosen, DO La Jolla CA 92037 Adult Reconst Orthopedics
Massoud Mahmoudi, DO Los Gatos CA 95032 Allergy and Immunology
Denis J. Yoshii, DO Costa Mesa CA 92626 Allergy and Immunology
David F. Jadwin, DO Bakersfield CA 93305 Anatomic Pathology & Lab Med
Cyrus Parsa, DO Pomona CA 91766 Anatomic Pathology & Lab Med
Mark Barcohana, DO Los Angeles CA 90036 Anesthesiology
Hoangtien H. La, DO Santa Ana CA 92705 Anesthesiology
James I. Thompson, DO Modesto CA 95355 Anesthesiology
Brian O. Keyes, DO Moreno Valley CA 92555 Anesthesiology
Norma Dominguez, DO Moreno Valley CA 92555 Anesthesiology
Stuart L. Bloom, DO Los Angeles CA 90049 Anesthesiology
George M. Warwick, DO Inglewood CA 90301 Anesthesiology
Wayne M. Arioto, DO Fresno CA 93720 Anesthesiology
LCDR Christopher B. Cornelissen, DO San Diego CA 92134 Anesthesiology
Nosrat Khajavi, DO Calabasas CA 91372 Anesthesiology
Robert J. Lis, DO Rancho Mirage CA 92270 Anesthesiology
David E. Bergman, DO Cypress CA 90630 Anesthesiology
Quinn Hume, DO San Diego CA 92101 Anesthesiology
LT Jay A. Avila, II, DO Moreno Valley CA 92555 Anesthesiology
MAJ Gregory Choe, DO Riverside CA 92503 Anesthesiology
Sungho Park, DO Diamond Bar CA 91765 Anesthesiology
Kean S. Ganan, DO Encinitas CA 92024 Anesthesiology
John A. Kermen, DO Fort Bragg CA 95437 Anesthesiology
Kelvin C. Mark, DO Sacramento CA 95821 Anesthesiology
Mahyar Ganjianpour, DO Encino CA 91316 Anesthesiology
Jeremiah Maloney, DO Moreno Valley CA 92555 Anesthesiology
Hansen Huan Le, DO Hayward CA 94545 Anesthesiology
Walter A. Rosenfield, III, DO San Rafael CA 94903 Anesthesiology
George A. Brooker, DO San Diego CA 92123 Anesthesiology
Cheuw Ming Oey, DO Irvine CA 92619 Anesthesiology
Luis A. Sanchez, DO Turlock CA 95382 Anesthesiology
Joe Bui, DO Merced CA 95344 Anesthesiology
Paul Kwok, DO, RPH Martinez CA 94553 Anesthesiology
Atalanta C. Olito, DO Escondido CA 92025 Anesthesiology
Dyan J. Osborne, DO Modesto CA 95355 Anesthesiology
Keith Ulric Smith, DO Moreno Valley CA 92555 Anesthesiology
Clinton E. Adams, DO, MPA, FACHE Pomona CA 91766 Anesthesiology
Gary M. Glaze, DO Grass Valley CA 95945 Anesthesiology
Stephen R. Ripple, DO Paso Robles CA 93446 Anesthesiology
Robert E. Hallworth, DO Victorville CA Anesthesiology
Thomas N. Zanetos, DO Hollister CA 95023 Anesthesiology
William J. Evans, DO Sacramento CA 95825 Anesthesiology
Gary Glasgow, DO San Diego CA 92186 Anesthesiology
Donald J. Galligan, DO Anaheim CA 92808 Anesthesiology
Ronald S. Mandel, DO Aliso Viejo CA 92656 Anesthesiology
Stephen K. Eng, DO, RPH San Marino CA 91108 Anesthesiology
Carl E. Collier, DO Loma Linda CA 92354 Anesthesiology
Phillip N. Ruhl, DO Stockton CA 95207 Anesthesiology
Michael N. Fish, DO Lynwood CA 90262 Anesthesiology
George M. Turner, DO Victorville CA 92395 Anesthesiology
Steven Blum, DO San Diego CA 92130 Anesthesiology
David J. Ninan, DO Moreno Valley CA 92555 Anesthesiology-Pain Management
Marc E. Lynch, DO Rancho Cucamonga CA 91729 Anesthesiology-Pain Management
Alexander Benson, DO Walnut CA 91789 Cardiology
Thanh T. Nguyen, DO Glendale CA 91206 Cardiology
William L. Chin, DO, MS Fontana CA 92335 Cardiology
William D. Bowden, DO, BS Healdsburg CA 95448 Cardiology
George S. Konugres, DO Laguna Hills CA 92653 Cardiology
James W. Reznick, DO Anaheim CA 92804 Cardiology
Roger D. Duber, DO Upland CA 91786 Cardiology
Eileen Wynne, DO San Diego CA 92103 Cardiothoracic Anesthesiology
James D. Joye, DO Mountain View CA 94040 Cardiovascular Diseases
Scott B. Smolar, DO San Rafael CA 94903 Child Psychiatry
Craig Joseph Wronski, DO Huntington Beach CA 92648 Child Psychiatry
Marijane Zimmerli, DO Palos Verdes Estates CA 90274 Child Psychiatry
James J. Kao, DO Westminster CA 92683 Cornea and Refractive Surgery
Kevin S. Sadati, DO Dana Point CA 92629 Cosmetic Dermatologic Surgery
CDR Carl A. Powell, DO Camp Pendleton CA 92055 Cosmetic Dermatologic Surgery
Herbert J. Rogove, DO Newport Beach CA 92658 Critical Care-Medicine
David C. Horowitz, DO Torrance CA 90505 Dermatology
Aram H. Kechichian, DO Stevenson Ranch CA 91381 Dermatology
Patricia A. Stewart, DO Santa Barbara CA 93101 Dermatology
Charles M. Tran, DO,MBA Corona CA 92880 Dermatology
Peter Helton, DO Newport Beach CA 92660 Dermatology
Craig L. Ziering, DO Newport Beach CA 92660 Dermatology
Matthew W. Muellenhoff, DO Grass Valley CA 95945 Dermatology
Michael J. Sabat, DO Los Angeles CA 90046 Dermatology
Diem Q. Pham, DO Anaheim CA 92807 Dermatology
Eugene J. Nowak, DO Chula Vista CA 91911 Dermatology
Carmelo A. Plateroti, DO Templeton CA 93465 Dermatology
Laurie M. Woll, DO Montclair CA 91763 Dermatology
Sharon N. Gerardi, DO Clovis CA 93611 Dermatology
Ronald Liskanich, DO Upland CA 91786 Dermatology
David R. Bruce, DO Stockton CA 95207 Dermatology
Navid Nami, DO Irvine CA 92603 Dermatology
Bradley S. Kurgis, DO, MPH Templeton CA 93465 Dermatology
N. Charles Diakon, DO Napa CA 94558 Dermatology
William Chow, DO San Leandro CA 94578 Dermatology
Glenn I. Goldberg, DO Laguna Beach CA 92651 Dermatology
MAJ Stephen T. Sesody, DO Gilroy CA 95020 Dermatology
Amy M. Cole, DO Concord CA 94518 Diagnostic Radiology
Olegario J. Lara, DO Santa Clara CA 95051 Diagnostic Radiology
Joseph J. Roco, DO Rancho Mirage CA 92270 Diagnostic Radiology
Abraham Pera, DO Eureka CA 95501 Diagnostic Radiology
Roy Gottlieb, DO Oak Park CA 91377 Diagnostic Radiology
John C. Kirby, DO Fullerton CA 92831 Diagnostic Radiology
Robert T. Petruzzo, Jr, DO San Diego CA 92120 Diagnostic Radiology
Paul M. Kupperstein, DO Orange CA 92868 Diagnostic Radiology
Joyce C. Pinckard, DO Roseville CA 95678 Diagnostic Radiology
Mark A. Wagner, DO Merced CA 95340 Diagnostic Radiology
George D. Morrison, DO Fountain Valley CA 92708 Diagnostic Radiology
CDR Larry E. Menestrina, DO Pomona CA 91767 Diagnostic Radiology
Frederick E. White, DO Hemet CA 92544 Diagnostic Radiology
Robert M. Porzio, DO Redding CA 96001 Emergency Medicine
Alisa Marie Roberts, DO Pasadena CA 91107 Emergency Medicine
Ralph S. Peiris, DO San Diego CA 92130 Emergency Medicine
Franz K. Bolowich, DO Apple Valley CA 92307 Emergency Medicine
Louis Pagnone, DO Bakersfield CA 93305 Emergency Medicine
Kenneth M. Dale, DO Rancho Cucamonga CA 91730 Emergency Medicine
Rick A. McPheeters, DO Bakersfield CA 93305 Emergency Medicine
Juk L. Ting, DO Irvine CA 92620 Emergency Medicine
Igor A. Boyarsky, DO Los Angeles CA 90048 Emergency Medicine
Scott R. Zittel, DO Redding CA 96001 Emergency Medicine
Fraidoon Mostamand, DO La Jolla CA 92037 Emergency Medicine
Allen I. Lin, DO Elk Grove CA 95758 Emergency Medicine
William S. Clark, DO Oakland CA 94612 Emergency Medicine
William E. Buys, DO San Luis Obispo CA 93405 Emergency Medicine
Lisa Henning Low, DO Walnut Creek CA 94596 Emergency Medicine
Jeffrey D. Butler, DO Bakersfield CA 93312 Emergency Medicine
Thomas F. Minahan, Jr, DO Colton CA 92324 Emergency Medicine
Carsten Zieger, DO Arroyo Grande CA 93420 Emergency Medicine
Craig Schiff, DO Hesperia CA 92345 Emergency Medicine
Julia Shuleshko, DO San Jose CA 95124 Emergency Medicine
Marie Strohl, DO Oceanside CA 92057 Emergency Medicine
Manish N. Amin, DO Bakersfield CA 93306 Emergency Medicine
Bruce A. Marts, DO Walnut Creek CA 94596 Emergency Medicine
Daniel T. McGinn, DO Simi Valley CA 93065 Emergency Medicine
Craig A. Nattkemper, DO, PhD Eureka CA 95503 Emergency Medicine
Wilton A. McLeod, DO Cayucos CA 93430 Emergency Medicine
MAJ Richard C. Lotsch, DO Vacaville CA 95688 Emergency Medicine
Alan D. Moy, DO Corona CA 92882 Emergency Medicine
Gihan G. Wetzel, DO La Palma CA 90623 Emergency Medicine
Shahrokh Kohanim, DO Los Angeles CA 90027 Emergency Medicine
Connie Chan, DO Santa Maria CA 93455 Emergency Medicine
Shahin Roshanzaer, DO Panorama City CA 91402 Emergency Medicine
Michael H. Luszczak, DO Carmichael CA 95608 Emergency Medicine
Steven E. Germany, DO, MS San Jose CA 95128 Emergency Medicine
Robert M. DuVoisin, DO Redding CA 96001 Emergency Medicine
Leslie Burson, DO Bakersfield CA 93308 Emergency Medicine
John Fosbinder, DO Bakersfield CA 93312 Emergency Medicine
Cindy C. Parker, DO Corona CA 92882 Emergency Medicine
Scott R. Stoughton, DO Fontana CA 92335 Emergency Medicine
Danh P. Ta, DO Hayward CA 94545 Emergency Medicine
Pierre Ujkic, DO Pomona CA 91767 Emergency Medicine
Khoa C. Luong, DO Chino CA 91710 Emergency Medicine
Francesca L. DeTrana, DO Westchester CA 90045 Emergency Medicine
Paul J. Manos, DO San Diego CA 92131 Emergency Medicine
Arnold S. Kremer, DO Poway CA 92064 Emergency Medicine
Sterling F. Lewis, DO Watsonville CA 95076 Emergency Medicine
Kenneth E. Zawacki, DO Turlock CA 95382 Emergency Medicine
Cynthia Hervey Mackey, DO Venice CA 90291 Emergency Medicine
Kirk J. Raeber, DO Jamul CA 91935 Emergency Medicine
John D. Wood, DO Roseville CA 95661 Emergency Medicine
Alfred Pascual, DO Northridge CA 91326 Emergency Medicine
Walid H. Ghurabi, DO Marina del Rey CA 90292 Emergency Medicine
Joseph C. D'Agostino, DO Modesto CA 95350 Emergency Medicine
Richard G. Whitehurst, III, DO Highland CA 92346 Emergency Medicine
James M. Chapman, DO Lakewood CA 90712 Emergency Medicine
Thomas Gable, DO Bakersfield CA 93309 Emergency Medicine
LCDR Stephen Backman, DO Le Grand CA 95333 Emergency Medicine
Sarah Welsh, DO Emeryville CA 94608 Emergency Medicine
Bruce W. Cummings, DO Mission Hills CA 91345 Emergency Medicine
Brendan J. Lee, Jr, DO La Mesa CA 91942 Emergency Medicine
Jeffrey R. Beck, DO San Diego CA 92128 Emergency Medicine
Nina Stuccio-White, DO Thousand Oaks CA 91362 Emergency Medicine
Robert H. Craig, DO Turlock CA 95382 Emergency Medicine
Robin D. Fisher, DO Moreno Valley CA 92555 Emergency Medicine
Robert Perry Husband, DO Poway CA 92064 Emergency Medicine
Dwynn N. Greenfield, DO San Diego CA 92127 Emergency Medicine
David G. Cameron, DO Roseville CA 95661 Emergency Medicine
Ronald C. Forgey, DO, MPH Long Beach CA 90806 Emergency Medicine
Tung Nguyen, DO Santa Ana CA 92703 Emergency Medicine
Lawrence D. Mazur, DO Riverside CA 92505 Emergency Medicine
R. Gordon Haas, DO Huntington Beach CA 92648 Emergency Medicine
Jerry P. Oliaro, DO Carmichael CA 95608 Emergency Medicine
John B. Woodbury, II, DO Danville CA 94506 Emergency Medicine
MAJ Daniel D. Houssiere, DO Fontana CA 92335 Emergency Medicine
Mark L. Benson, DO Palm Desert CA 92211 Emergency Medicine
Stephen Damiani, DO Apple Valley CA 92307 Endocrinology
Scott J. Jacober, DO Carlsbad CA 92009 Endocrinology
Glenn N. Wagner, DO San Diego CA 92123 Forensic Pathology
Lesley E. Wallis, DO Bakersfield CA 93312 Forensic Pathology
Howard W. Oliver, DO Apple Valley CA 92307 Forensic Pathology
Sanaa Quant-Ligons, DO San Bernardino CA 92405 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Tracy Santos, DO San Diego CA 92127 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Hye Ok Lee, DO Cerritos CA 90703 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Hung Nguyen, DO Long Beach CA 90813 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Jenny C. Tai, DO South Gate CA 90280 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Habibolla Merzdad Sadeghi, DO La Verne CA 91750 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Olivia M. Bajor, DO Fontana CA 92336 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
John P. Dunlap, DO Folsom CA 95630 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Theresa Cyr, DO San Diego CA 92121 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Alphonso O. Swaby, DO Palmdale CA 93550 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Ronald Zhang, DO Riverside CA 92505 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Kenji Shibata, DO Victorville CA 92392 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Anna A. Petrovich, DO Roseville CA 95747 FP/Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Kalpesh R. Mehta, DO Bellflower CA 90706 Gastroenterology
Kevin M. Jenkins, DO Upland CA 91786 Gastroenterology
Kevin B. Hill, DO Auburn CA 95602 Gastroenterology
Jon K. Marsh, DO Yuba City CA 95991 Gastroenterology
LT Reagan Anderson, DO Vista CA 92083 General Practice
James T. Lee, DO West Hollywood CA 90048 General Practice
Gerald Clark Hoover, DO Santa Barbara CA 93105 General Practice
Jung J. Lim, DO Auburn CA 95602 General Vascular Surgery
Joseph V. Davis, III, DO Pomona CA 91766 General Vascular Surgery
Richard Cheng, DO Wildomar CA 92595 Geriatric Medicine-FP
William D. Welsh, DO Whittier CA 90605 Geriatric Medicine-FP
Celestine J. Arambulo, DO San Diego CA 92120 Geriatric Medicine-FP
Denise A. Rettenmaier, DO Yountville CA 94599 Geriatrics
Arthur C. Ungerleider, DO, RPH Long Beach CA 90815 Geriatrics
Sunil K. Singhania, DO Santa Monica CA 90401 Geriatrics
Jeffrey D. Howell, DO San Diego CA 92111 Geriatrics
Dennis M. Carden, DO Fawnskin CA 92333 Gynecology
Daniel B. Brubaker, DO Clovis CA 93612 Hematology
Nancy R. Rubin, DO Monterey CA 93940 Hematology & Oncology
Steven G. Eisenberg, DO Escondido CA 92025 Hematology & Oncology
John A. Keech, Jr, DO Chico CA 95926 Hematology & Oncology
Joseph M. Pascuzzo, DO Fresno CA 93710 Hematology & Oncology
Christopher L. Felten, DO Encino CA 91436 Hematology-Pathology
Jeanne M. Spudick, DO Newport Beach CA 92660 Infectious Diseases
Paul L. DiModica, DO Santa Maria CA 93454 Internal Med-Emergency Med
Warren J. Wisnoff, DO Bakersfield CA 93311 Internal Med-Emergency Med
David H. Nguyen, DO Arcadia CA 91006 Internal Med-Pediatrics
Jennifer Hung, DO Chino Hills CA 91709 Internal Med-Pediatrics
Jillian Thach, DO Irvine CA 92620 Internal Medicine
Binh Tran, DO West Covina CA 91792 Internal Medicine
Milton B. Chan, DO Union City CA 94587 Internal Medicine
Ngoc-Lan Le, DO San Lorenzo CA 94580 Internal Medicine
Duane R. Darnell, DO Sun City CA 92586 Internal Medicine
Pooneh Esfahani, DO Rancho Cucamonga CA 91730 Internal Medicine
Sabine U. Hill, DO Hayward CA 94545 Internal Medicine
Kin Wong, DO Pasadena CA 91107 Internal Medicine
Brian E. Dolnick, DO Manteca CA 95337 Internal Medicine
Regan S. Douty, DO Redlands CA 92373 Internal Medicine
Julie C. Burgos, DO El Cajon CA 92021 Internal Medicine
Norman M. Wall, DO Saint Helena CA 94574 Internal Medicine
Michael N. Rutman, DO Encinitas CA 92024 Internal Medicine
Thomas M. Tseng, DO Monterey Park CA 91754 Internal Medicine
John D. Adams, Jr, DO Long Beach CA 90806 Internal Medicine
Runa Basu, DO Berkeley CA 94705 Internal Medicine
Shalon D. Nash, DO Madera CA 93637 Internal Medicine
James M. Yeh, DO San Francisco CA 94123 Internal Medicine
Geraldine T. O'Shea, DO Jackson CA 95642 Internal Medicine
Sundeep Tumber, DO Sacramento CA 95835 Internal Medicine
Matthew Lefferman, DO Los Angeles CA 90035 Internal Medicine
Nimitta Lathiya, DO Anaheim CA 92801 Internal Medicine
Niti V. Peruvemba, DO Westlake Village CA 91361 Internal Medicine
Soham P. Jhaveri, DO Oakland CA 94606 Internal Medicine
Lorin M. Kreitzer, DO Emeryville CA 94608 Internal Medicine
Albert Young Lim, DO Alhambra CA 91801 Internal Medicine
Alan L. Menkes, DO Laguna Beach CA 92651 Internal Medicine
Roger C. Garrison, DO Murrieta CA 92562 Internal Medicine
Tu H. Duong, DO Burbank CA 91505 Internal Medicine
Keith W. Katsura, DO Roseville CA 95678 Internal Medicine
Jennifer H. Choy, DO Rancho Cordova CA 95670 Internal Medicine
Caroline B. Capitano, DO San Francisco CA 94118 Internal Medicine
Michael T. Temkin, DO San Ramon CA 94583 Internal Medicine
Tonia M. Lessani, DO Menlo Park CA 94026 Internal Medicine
Selma J. Prechel, DO Anaheim CA 92804 Internal Medicine
CAPT Cynthia S. Marske, DO Vallejo CA 94592 Internal Medicine
Kayvon Yadidi, DO Van Nuys CA 91405 Internal Medicine
Kevin Hong Cheng, DO Vallejo CA 94589 Internal Medicine
Kristen Sanford, DO Poway CA 92064 Internal Medicine
Frank G. Karneges, DO, MS Vacaville CA 95688 Internal Medicine
Steven M. Knapik, DO Big Bear Lake CA Internal Medicine

Todd A. Lewis, DO Portola CA 96122 Internal Medicine
Manuel Rosario, DO Fullerton CA 92835 Internal Medicine
John A. Selle, DO San Francisco CA 94117 Internal Medicine
Karen Colleen Daily Weinstein, DO Fort Irwin CA 92310 Internal Medicine
Germin Soliman, DO Hacienda Heights CA 91745 Internal Medicine
Jeanette Krolikowski, DO San Francisco CA 94110 Internal Medicine
Julio A. Loza, DO Los Angeles CA 90033 Internal Medicine
Robert L. Gross, Jr, DO Lake Isabella CA 93240 Internal Medicine
Kerry S. Waits, DO Red Bluff CA 96080 Internal Medicine
Robbin J Green Yeh, DO Oakland CA 94610 Internal Medicine
John J. LaMarca, DO Guadalupe CA 93434 Internal Medicine
Alan S. Rosenthal, DO Carmel CA 93922 Internal Medicine
Terri L. Turner, DO, RN Sebastopol CA 95472 Internal Medicine
Sy H. Oang, DO Whettger CA Internal Medicine
Kuo Hwang, DO Sacramento CA 95825 Internal Medicine
Daryl J. Wilkins, DO Linden CA 95236 Internal Medicine
Neil Okamura, DO San Ramon CA 94583 Internal Medicine
Pegah Mehdizadeh, DO Calabasas CA 91302 Internal Medicine
Steven J. Becker, DO Los Alamitos CA 90720 Internal Medicine
R. Keith Simpson, DO, MPH Desert Hot Springs CA 92240 Internal Medicine
Stephanie Marta Rade, DO Monrovia CA 91016 Internal Medicine
Jon Persichino, DO Loma Linda CA 92354 Internal Medicine
Naser M. Jamal, DO Vacaville CA 95688 Internal Medicine
Wail Shoga, DO Glendora CA 91740 Internal Medicine
Alejandro L. Gonzalez, DO Los Angeles CA 90033 Internal Medicine
Hector F. Luque, DO Los Angeles CA 90033 Internal Medicine
Sara L. Kossuth, DO Crescent City CA 95531 Internal Medicine
Mark Bulgarelli, DO San Diego CA 92113 Internal Medicine
Hans Yu, DO San Francisco CA 94122 Internal Medicine
Stanley S. Herr, DO Bermuda Dunes CA 92203 Internal Medicine
Patricia S. Rochette, DO Berkeley CA 94705 Internal Medicine
Raymond Yeh, DO Fairfield CA 94533 Internal Medicine
Cynthia L. Serabyn, DO Upland CA 91786 Internal Medicine
Tonda D. Bradshaw, DO Yucaipa CA 92399 Internal Medicine
Fariborz Shams, DO Anaheim CA 92804 Internal Medicine
Constance E. Noel, DO Scotts Valley CA 95066 Internal Medicine
Michael B. Clearfield, DO Vallejo CA 94592 Internal Medicine
William J. Grimm, DO Palm Springs CA 92262 Internal Medicine
Michael J. Suval, DO Watsonville CA 95076 Internal Medicine
Samuel Wong, DO Richmond CA 94806 Internal Medicine
LT Darren Mark Neal, DO Palos Verdes Peninsula CA 90274 Internal Medicine
Cheri Sue Quincy, DO Santa Rosa CA 95403 Internal Medicine
Michael J. Iocca, DO, RN Modesto CA 95357 Internal Medicine
Daniel E. Kahler, DO San Francisco CA 94109 Internal Medicine
Karen Oh, DO Manhattan Beach CA 90266 Internal Medicine
Denise Soto, DO La Canada CA 91011 Internal Medicine
Robert Wlodarczyk, DO Salinas CA 93901 Internal Medicine
Jerry J. Gross, DO Yuba City CA 95991 Internal Medicine
Allan L. Kurtz, DO Woodland Hills CA 91367 Internal Medicine
Minh Kim, DO Santa Clara CA 95051 Internal Medicine
Jeffrey D. Blodgett, DO Quartz Hill CA 93536 Internal Medicine
Rodney M. Swenson, DO Eureka CA 95501 Internal Medicine
CDR Steven J. Hager, DO Fresno CA 93729 Internal Medicine
David H. Skinner, DO South Gate CA 90280 Internal Medicine
Kathy Amacher, DO Vacaville CA 95687 Internal Medicine
Bernard F. McDermott, DO Thousand Oaks CA 91361 Internal Medicine-Preventive Medicine
Brian H. Ching, DO San Francisco CA 94143 Interventional Radiology
Lawrence E. Nathan, Jr, DO, MS Vallejo CA 94589 Laboratory Medicine
Paula J. Melone, DO Walnut Creek CA 94598 Maternal & Fetal Medicine
Bernard R. Hannam, DO Newport Beach CA 92663 Neonatology
Christopher W. Rabin, DO Fresno CA 93720 Neonatology
Philip V. Marinelli, DO Fallbrook CA 92028 Neonatology
Karen Woo, DO Sacramento CA 95825 Neonatology
Bernard M. Azer, DO Los Angeles CA 90003 Nephrology
Rodney Faucett, DO Berkeley CA 94705 Nephrology
Alfredo B. Tiu, DO San Diego CA 92123 Nephrology
Howard N. Erlanger, DO, MS Palm Springs CA 92262 Nephrology
Christopher J. Pham, DO Palm Springs CA 92262 Neurological Surgery
Nguyen Do, DO Yucaipa CA 92399 Neurological Surgery
Jeffrey S. Mimbs, DO Chico CA 95926 Neurological Surgery
Yafa Minazad, DO Pasadena CA 91105 Neurology
Bret D. Andrews, DO Oakland CA 94611 Neurology
Jimmy Yue, DO La Canada CA 91011 Neurology
Sherif Dimyan, DO Gardena CA 90247 Neurology
Julie Thompson-Dobkin, DO Huntington Beach CA 92648 Neurology
John J. Battalino, DO Sacramento CA 95814 Neurology
Bryan M. Spann, DO Los Angeles CA 90033 Neurology
Valerie Herrington, DO, MA Apple Valley CA 92307 Neurology
Jeffrey D. Ries, DO Upland CA 91786 Neurology
Benjamin D. Spurgeon, DO Anaheim CA 92807 Neurology
Lori Darlene Uber-Zak, DO Loma Linda CA 92354 Neurology
Michael P. Tan, DO Alhambra CA 91801 Neurology
Jeanette M. Straga, DO Studio City CA 91604 Neurology
Ardith M. Courtney, DO Napa CA 94558 Neurology
Loan Nguyen, DO Stockton CA 95202 Neurology
Richard B. Riemer, DO Sacramento CA 95816 Neurology
Darryl M. Warner, DO Redlands CA 92374 Neurology
LCDR Terry S. Peery, DO San Diego CA 92134 Neurology
James J. Park, DO Huntington Beach CA 92647 Neurology
John E. Hawkins, DO Walnut Creek CA 94596 Neurology & Psychiatry
Robert Jeffrey Davis, DO Santa Barbara CA 93110 Neurology & Psychiatry
Daniel Shadoan, DO San Francisco CA 94123 Neuromusculoskeletal Medicine/OMT
Andrew H. Lee, DO Sacramento CA 95816 Neuroradiology
COL Peter S. Palka, DO Travis Afb CA 94535 Neuroradiology
Howard H. Chen, DO San Marino CA 91108 None Listed
Bahnam T. Thomas, DO Fallbrook CA 92028 None Listed
Jeffrey Ho, DO Los Angeles CA 90073 None Listed
Paul Wisniewski, DO Redlands CA 92374 None Listed
Davin A. Agustines, DO Sherman Oaks CA 91423 None Listed
Michael Keramati, DO Calabasas CA 91302 None Listed
Melissa Tasista, DO Redding CA 96001 None Listed
Shaheen Oshtory, DO Stockton CA 95207 None Listed
Rama Samoori, DO Brea CA 92823 None Listed
Hyun Lee, DO Apple Valley CA 92307 None Listed
William Selby, DO Loma Linda CA 92354 None Listed
Trevi Sawalich, DO Marina del Rey CA 90292 None Listed
Penny Vande Streek, DO Rocklin CA 95677 Nuclear Medicine
Liliana I. Ruiz-Leon, DO Fontana CA 92337 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Jennifer Boozer, DO Rancho Cucamonga CA 91739 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Robert S. Lee, DO Pomona CA 91767 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Pallavi A. Danforth, DO Indio CA 92201 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Mylinda L. Bielman, DO Murrieta CA 92562 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Cheryl D. Martin-Glenn, DO Harbor City CA 90710 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Linda Tsai, DO San Jose CA 95124 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Toni Dung Vu, DO Indio CA 92201 Obstetrics & Gynecology
JoAnne Gras, DO Martinez CA 94553 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Dana M. Welle, DO Santa Cruz CA 95065 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Mark E. Eastman, DO Jackson CA 95642 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Maryam Z. Zand, DO Victorville CA 92395 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Shirley Wong, DO Colton CA 92324 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Shannon L. Hart, DO San Diego CA 92108 Obstetrics & Gynecology
MAJ Alan G. Weinstein, DO Fort Irwin CA 92310 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Michele L. Garant-Smotherman, DO Ventura CA 93001 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Michael J. Dainer, DO San Diego CA 92134 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Samir E. Hage, DO Redlands CA 92373 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Hyuk P. Kim, DO Pacoima CA 91331 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Lauren Vego Michelsen, DO Colton CA 92324 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Debra Kay Lebo, DO Wildomar CA 92595 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Dafna Trites, DO Mission Hills CA 91345 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Herman R. McDaniel, DO Colton CA 92324 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Michele L. Cherry, DO Manteca CA 95336 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Leopoldo E. Valdivia, DO Tulare CA 93274 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Rebecca Lee Perlow, DO Tarzana CA 91356 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Kevin A. Waits, DO Red Bluff CA 96080 Obstetrics & Gynecology
LCDR Debra A. Arsenault, DO Camp Pendelton CA 92055 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Jonathan J. Varjabedian, DO Los Angeles CA 90046 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Samuel J. Santoro, DO Fairfield CA 94533 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Rahele Mazarei, DO Oceanside CA 92056 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Cheryl A Harris Geer, DO Camarillo CA 93010 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Debra A. Turull, DO Pomona CA 91767 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Mary Klemm, DO Benicia CA 94510 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Sari J. Kasper, DO Walnut Creek CA 94598 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Ralph B. Armstrong, DO Hollister CA 95023 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Jennifer C. Trujillo, DO Colton CA 92324 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Sissi N. Selinger, DO Murrieta CA 92562 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Andrew Yeh, DO Montebello CA 90640 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Katherine A. Mayo, DO Riverside CA 92505 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Shrikant K. Tamhane, DO Carson CA 90745 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Chrysten E. Cunningham, DO San Diego CA 92103 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Sunthara R. Hay, DO Martinez CA 94553 Obstetrics & Gynecology
John L. Pinches, III, DO Los Alamitos CA 90720 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Billie Guerra, DO Penngrove CA 94951 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Andre M. Kasko, DO Yucca Valley CA 92284 Obstetrics & Gynecology
LT Richard B. Wolf, DO San Diego CA 92103 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Cynthia M. Vanata, DO Manteca CA 95336 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Tien Chung Gu, DO, RPH Murrieta CA 92562 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Colette M. Eastman, DO Poway CA 92064 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Robert C. Southmayd, DO, MS Stockton CA 95203 Obstetrics & Gynecology
John S. Missanelli, DO La Mesa CA 91942 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Robert Armada, DO Upland CA 91785 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Paul A. Pyka, DO La Mesa CA 91942 Obstetrics & Gynecology
Barry S. Schneidewind, DO Lincoln CA 95648 Occupational Environmental Medicine
Bruce K. Hoang, DO Santee CA 92071 Occupational Medicine
LCDR Michael M. Bezouska, DO, MS Camp Pendleton CA 92055 Occupational Medicine
Shoko K. Masuda, DO San Francisco CA 94109 Occupational Medicine
David A. Wender, DO Oakland CA 94611 Occupational Medicine
Silvana Martino, DO Santa Monica CA 90404 Oncology
Denis P. Bouvier, DO San Francisco CA 94117 Oncology
Sally S. Lee, DO San Diego CA 92115 Ophthalmology
Lori B. Birndorf, DO Valley Village CA 91607 Ophthalmology
Jeffrey M. Sage, DO Los Angeles CA 90017 Ophthalmology
Timothy Parsons, DO San Jose CA 95128 Ophthalmology
Michael P. Walvick, DO Fremont CA 94538 Ophthalmology
David E. Marshburn, DO Whittier CA 90603 Ophthalmology
Joseph F. Barakeh, DO Walnut Creek CA 94596 Ophthalmology
John McNamara, DO Daly City CA 94015 Ophthalmology
Frederick Knapp, Jr, DO Oceanside CA 92054 Ophthalmology
Robert A. Innocenzi, Jr, DO Chino CA 91710 Ophthalmology
W. Craig Lannin, DO Redding CA 96001 Ophthalmology
Carl Dilella, DO Santa Monica CA 90401 Orthopedic Surgery
Aaron G. Osborne, DO San Diego CA 92103 Orthopedic Surgery
Raphael M. Klug, DO Roseville CA 95747 Orthopedic Surgery
Christopher J. Krpan, DO Murphys CA 95247 Orthopedic Surgery
David R. Gotham, Jr, DO Carmichael CA 95608 Orthopedic Surgery
Stuart M. Shapiro, DO Corona CA 92879 Orthopedic Surgery
LT Kelly P. Coffey, DO San Diego CA 92140 Orthopedic Surgery
David A. Propst, DO, MBA Rancho Mirage CA 92270 Orthopedic Surgery
Lance R. Winter, DO Colton CA 92324 Orthopedic Surgery
Vicente R. Bernabe, DO Hanford CA 93230 Orthopedic Surgery
Dennis C. Blackburn, DO Santa Maria CA 93454 Orthopedic Surgery
Thomas J. Welle, DO Santa Cruz CA 95065 Orthopedic Surgery
Paul David Burton, DO Redlands CA 92375 Orthopedic Surgery
James Scalone, DO San Diego CA 92109 Orthopedic Surgery
John W. Witczak, DO, MS Mission Viejo CA 92690 Orthopedic Surgery
Robert B. Christopher, DO Bakersfield CA 93309 Orthopedic Surgery
William L. Shoemaker, Jr, DO San Diego CA 92108 Orthopedic Surgery
LT Joseph E. Strauss, DO Yucca Valley CA 92284 Orthopedic Surgery
Simon Lavi, DO Los Angeles CA 90049 Orthopedic Surgery
Paul E. Wakim, DO Huntington Beach CA 92648 Orthopedic Surgery
William L. Pistel, DO Modesto CA 95350 Orthopedic Surgery
Roger D. Dainer, DO Pleasanton CA 94588 Orthopedic Surgery
John C. Steinmann, DO Redlands CA 92375 Orthopedic Surgery
G. Dennis Horvath, DO, MS Ventura CA 93003 Orthopedic Surgery
Lawrence W. Serif, DO Palm Springs CA 92262 Orthopedic Surgery
Frank Feng, DO Visalia CA 93291 Orthopedic Surgery-Spine
Kamran Aflatoon, DO Tustin CA 92780 Orthopedic Surgery-Spine
Samuel D. Small, DO Ventura CA 93003 Orthopedic Surgery-Spine
Gregory S. Tennant, DO Redlands CA 92373 Orthopedic Trauma
Eric I. Lin, DO Torrance CA 90505 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Virginia M. Johnson, DO Santa Monica CA 90404 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Kay Weinshienk, DO Occidental CA 95465 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Kurt N. Woeller, DO San Diego CA 92121 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
David L. Redding, DO Pomona CA 91766 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Janine M. Talty, DO, MPH Watsonville CA 95076 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
John Haywood Lovelace, II, DO Morgan Hill CA 95037 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Bertrand A. Vandeville, DO Mill Valley CA 94941 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Kathleen Novak, DO Carlsbad CA 92008 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Ronald A. Kurylowicz, DO Marina del Rey CA 90292 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Jane J. Xenos, DO Newport Beach CA 92661 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Catherine Petronijevic, DO Salinas CA 93907 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Barbara L. Newlon, DO San Rafael CA 94901 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Lorane M. Dick, DO San Dimas CA 91773 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Gina M. Caravaglia, DO Valencia CA 91355 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Kate McCaffrey, DO Arcata CA 95521 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Aline G. Fournier, DO Escondido CA 92025 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Bruce D. Flagg, DO Cupertino CA 95015 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Jill E. Gurney-McKee, DO Aptos CA 95003 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Veronica E. Daggett, DO Nevada City CA 95959 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Ross A. Carlson, DO Encinitas CA 92024 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Stefan Hagopian, DO Santa Monica CA 90404 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Monica Kieffer, DO Encinitas CA 92024 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Mary E. Ruppert, DO Laguna Hills CA 92653 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Sandra B. Skates, DO Vacaville CA 95688 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
John M. Lay, DO, BA Aptos CA 95003 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Eric J. Dolgin, DO Santa Monica CA 90405 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Mark Rosen, DO Portola Valley CA 94028 Osteo Manipulative Medicine
Susan Cislo, DO Vallejo CA 94592 Osteo Manipulative Treat +1
Donald M. Sesso, DO Palo Alto CA 94304 Otolaryn & Facial Plastic Surg
Avrum A. Kaufman, DO Ladera Ranch CA 92694 Otolaryn & Facial Plastic Surg
Julie A. Edween, DO West Hollywood CA 90069 Otolaryn & Facial Plastic Surg
William C. Cohen, DO Orange CA 92869 Otolaryn & Facial Plastic Surg
Ngon H. Dinh, DO San Jose CA 95156 Otolaryn & Facial Plastic Surg
Quang C. Quach, DO Westminster CA 92683 Otolaryn & Facial Plastic Surg
Mark Edwin Reader, DO Porterville CA 93257 Otolaryn & Facial Plastic Surg
Evany D. Zirul, DO Fresno CA 93704 Otorhinolaryngology
Sarmistha Kumar, DO Vista CA 92081 Pain Management-Rehab Medicine
Gadi A. Revivo, DO San Diego CA 92123 Pain Management-Rehab Medicine
Andrew C. Bullock, DO San Diego CA 92120 Pain Management-Rehab Medicine
Carlo S. Esteves, DO San Francisco CA 94109 Pain Management-Rehab Medicine
Paula K. Schwarz, DO Burlingame CA 94010 Pain Management-Rehab Medicine
David K. Padgett, DO Danville CA 94526 Pain Management-Rehab Medicine
Wayne L. Garrett, DO San Pablo CA 94806 Pathology
Grace Liu, DO Loma Linda CA 92354 Pediatric Anesthesiology
William V. Ronan, DO San Diego CA 92138 Pediatric Anesthesiology
Shaoi Huang, DO Hayward CA 94545 Pediatric Emergency Medicine
Charles J. Sophy, DO Beverly Hills CA 90212 Pediatric Psychiatry
Paul Copeland, DO, MS Clarksburg CA 95612 Pediatric Psychiatry
Jason F. Lue, DO Los Angeles CA 90026 Pediatrics
Molina S. Patel, DO Oakland CA 94610 Pediatrics
Cary Y. Cheng, DO Huntington Park CA 90255 Pediatrics
Daniel C. Robbins, DO Temecula CA 92592 Pediatrics
Daniel P. Junge, DO Oakland CA 94611 Pediatrics
Daisy B. Yonzon- Jones, DO Tracy CA 95377 Pediatrics
Loan K. Bui, DO Modesto CA 95356 Pediatrics
Antoinette M. DelValle-Blogg, DO Rancho Santa Margarita CA 92688 Pediatrics
Susan K. Boudakian, DO West Hills CA 91307 Pediatrics
Deborah A. Shassetz, DO Modesto CA 95355 Pediatrics
Steven A. Foster, DO Madera CA 93638 Pediatrics
Bahareh M. Schweiger, DO Los Angeles CA 90045 Pediatrics
Roshan Raja, DO San Mateo CA 94404 Pediatrics
Robert Posen, DO, MS Pasadena CA 91105 Pediatrics
Nancy Rodriguez Fernando, DO Redlands CA 92373 Pediatrics
LCDR Mary H. McCarthy, DO Oceanside CA 92057 Pediatrics
Kevan Z. Craig, DO Seal Beach CA 90740 Pediatrics
Stacie A. Gereb, DO Santa Clarita CA 91355 Pediatrics
Connie Cheng, DO San Gabriel CA 91775 Pediatrics
Joseph M. Longnecker, DO Fullerton CA Pediatrics
Nnennaya O. Omerigbo, DO Lynwood CA 90262 Pediatrics
Jana L. Webb, DO Temecula CA 92590 Pediatrics
Frances C. Yang, DO Pomona CA 91766 Pediatrics
Mary Anne Morelli Haskell, DO Coronado CA 92118 Pediatrics
James E. Foy, DO Vallejo CA 94591 Pediatrics
Margaret Ming-Sen Wang, DO Fairfield CA 94534 Pediatrics
Rachel Lynn Frankel Meek, DO Walnut Creek CA 94596 Pediatrics
Rosemarie Tweed, DO Moreno Valley CA 92553 Pediatrics
Barry Rostek, DO, MPH San Francisco CA 94114 Pediatrics
Katherine Feinstein, DO El Cajon CA 92020 Pediatrics
Kenten P. Wang, DO Sacramento CA 95817 Physical Medicine & Rehab
Daryl C. Caringi, DO Upland CA 91786 Physical Medicine & Rehab
Imad M. Rashid, DO Roseville CA 95678 Physical Medicine & Rehab
Jim R. Sylvain, DO Santa Cruz CA 95060 Physical Medicine & Rehab
Thomas Nasser, DO Lancaster CA 93534 Physical Medicine & Rehab
Thomas C. Apostle, DO Los Angeles CA 90004 Physical Medicine & Rehab
Stephen Dinger, DO Glendale CA 91202 Physical Medicine & Rehab
Alice Ming-yu Tsai, DO Long Beach CA 90808 Physical Medicine & Rehab
Carolyn J. Conboy, DO Long Beach CA 90802 Plastic & Reconstructive Surg
Dong H. Ha, DO Alhambra CA 91801 Plastic & Reconstructive Surg
Fardad Forouzanpour, DO Beverly Hills CA 90211 Plastic & Reconstructive Surg
Ali A. Heidari, DO Upland CA 91786 Plastic & Reconstructive Surg
Capt Charles D. Pickett, DO, MPH Imperial CA Preventive Med-Aerospace Med
Monte L. Bible, DO, MPH Escondido CA 92027 Preventive Med-Occupat'l Med
Michael M. Green, DO La Mirada CA 90638 Preventive Med-Occupat'l Med
CAPT Gina Terracciano Mootrey, DO, MPH Atlanta CA 30333 Preventive Med-Occupat'l Med
Leslie M. Israel, DO Irvine CA 92617 Preventive Med-Occupat'l Med
Richard H. Wilkins, DO San Ramon CA 94583 Preventive Med-Occupat'l Med
Udd'hava Om, DO, MPH Malibu CA 90265 Preventive Medicine
Michael Collins, DO Irvine CA 92617 Preventive Medicine
Rose Marie Hendrix, DO Watsonville CA 95076 Preventive Medicine
Mark A. Tapscott, DO San Diego CA 92120 Proctology
Lisa K. Rivera, DO Vista CA 92083 Psychiatry
Mark Melden, DO Coronado CA 92118 Psychiatry
John H. Cotrufo, DO Fremont CA 94538 Psychiatry
Ronald R. Holt, Jr, DO San Francisco CA 94131 Psychiatry
Brian Bromley, DO San Diego CA 92110 Psychiatry
Douglas Martin Rosoff, DO Ukiah CA 95482 Psychiatry
Richard E. Land, DO, MA Fresno CA 93704 Psychiatry
Michael J. Ilas, DO Temecula CA 92591 Psychiatry
Robert L. Hendren, IV, DO Sacramento CA 95817 Psychiatry
Tedde Rinker, DO Redwood City CA 94061 Psychiatry
COL R. Thomas Newell, II, DO Palm Springs CA 92263 Psychiatry
Eugene L. Fealk, DO Lincoln CA 95648 Psychiatry
Dale C. Peace, DO, BA Santa Paula CA 93060 Psychiatry
Craig A. Kaiser, DO San Diego CA 92103 Psychiatry
Doris T. Tan, DO Fresno CA 93703 Psychiatry
Noreen A. Bumby, DO Palm Desert CA 92260 Psychiatry
Paul H. Kratofil, DO Patton CA 92369 Psychiatry
Kamlesh K. Sandhu, DO Fresno CA 93747 Psychiatry
Julia Quinlan, DO Edwards Afb CA 93524 Psychiatry
Arshia Shirzadi, DO Santa Ana CA 92701 Psychiatry
George M. Bifano, DO Santa Barbara CA 93105 Psychiatry
Timothy L. Carpenter, DO Los Angeles CA 90056 Psychiatry
Linda K. Weir, DO Menlo Park CA 94025 Psychiatry
Jeffrey H. Zwerin, DO Napa CA 94558 Psychiatry
Steven D. Macina, DO Huntington Beach CA 92647 Psychiatry
R. Bradley Sanders, DO, MS La Mesa CA 91942 Psychiatry
Willie Harris, DO La Quinta CA 92253 Psychiatry
Karen H. Kiefer, DO, MS Diamond Bar CA 91765 Psychiatry
Bruce Wenokur, DO, MPH Sacramento CA 95816 Psychiatry
Michelle Indianer, DO Los Gatos CA 95032 Psychiatry
Murray H. Rosenthal, DO, MS San Diego CA 92123 Psychiatry
Joseph Wayne Cassady, DO Marysville CA 95901 Public Health
Sherfong Gee, DO San Francisco CA 94134 Pulmonary Diseases
Alan S. Brooker, DO El Dorado Hills CA 95762 Pulmonary Diseases
H. William Bonekat, DO Davis CA 95616 Pulmonary Medicine
Jeffrey I. Hananel, DO Panorama City CA 91402 Pulmonary Medicine
Larry Emdur, DO, PhD San Diego CA 92120 Pulmonary Medicine
Robert L. Hinds, DO Visalia CA 93291 Pulmonary-Critical Care
Capt Dennis E. Amundson, DO San Diego CA 92134 Pulmonary-Critical Care
Denis Bolton, DO Long Beach CA 90803 Radiology
David G. Suadi, DO Bakersfield CA 93314 Radiology
Ana Shah, DO Redondo Beach CA 90277 Radiology
George C. Lai, DO Sacramento CA 95825 Radiology
Albert Quan, DO Irvine CA 92603 Radiology
Cesar J. Tumakay, DO Modesto CA 95355 Radiology
Alan Cohn, DO Mount Shasta CA 96067 Radiology
Samuel T. Tokuyama, DO Burbank CA 91504 Radiology
David J. Saperstein, DO Fontana CA 92335 Radiology
Azeem Noorani, DO Fresno CA 93720 Radiology
David Cheyney, DO Bakersfield CA 93311 Radiology
Michael P. Green, DO Irvine CA 92604 Radiology
Marvin B. Zwerin, DO Kentfield CA 94904 Rehabilitation Medicine
Richard A. Bernstein, DO Aptos CA 95003 Rehabilitation Medicine
Maria B. Patten, DO Roseville CA 95661 Rehabilitation Medicine
Richard L. Aptaker, DO Oakland CA 94611 Rehabilitation Medicine
E. Alexander Posuniak, Jr, DO, RPH Roseville CA 95661 Rehabilitation Medicine
Ronald J. Fujimoto, DO Los Gatos CA 95032 Rehabilitation Medicine
Cynthia R. Amelon, DO San Francisco CA 94109 Rehabilitation Medicine
R. O. Waiton, DO Los Gatos CA 95030 Rehabilitation Medicine
Michael L. Jensen, DO Grass Valley CA 95945 Rehabilitation Medicine
Louis Rosen, DO San Diego CA 92120 Rehabilitation Medicine
Jerel H. Glassman, DO, MPH San Francisco CA 94117 Rehabilitation Medicine
Jeffrey R. Nelson, DO Pasadena CA 91105 Reproductive Endocrinology
Christian R. Dequet, DO Newbury Park CA 91320 Rheumatology
Andre P. Lallande, DO Riverside CA 92501 Rheumatology
Judy C. Maddox, DO Woodland Hills CA 91367 Rheumatology
J. Michael Finley, DO Pomona CA 91766 Rheumatology
Quoc L. Vo, DO San Francisco CA 94117 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Raymond J. Hruby, DO Pomona CA 91766 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Kathryn A. Perry, DO San Dimas CA 91773 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Eugene L. Pudberry, DO, RPH San Francisco CA 94109 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Thomas Michael McCombs, DO Vallejo CA 94592 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
D. A. Farnum, DO San Juan Capistrano CA 92675 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Jennifer A. Logan, DO Portola Valley CA 94028 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
H. James Jones, DO Pomona CA 91766 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Timothy T. Schultz, DO Santa Barbara CA 93101 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
James W. Binkerd, DO Vallejo CA 94592 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Bonnie R. Gintis, DO Soquel CA 95073 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Mark H. LaBeau, DO Encinitas CA 92024 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Theresa A M Hong, DO San Francisco CA 94109 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Melvin Friedman, DO, BS Burlingame CA 94010 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Robert C. Clark, DO, MS Concord CA 94519 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Henrietta B. Sholars, DO, MA San Francisco CA 94110 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
E. Carlisle Holland, DO Sebastopol CA 95472 Spec Prof in Osteo Manip Med
Wade Faerber, DO Temecula CA 92591 Sports Medicine
Gary L. Arends, DO Glendale CA 91206 Sports Medicine
Naresh C. Rao, DO San Diego CA 92106 Sports Medicine
Stephen R. Steele, DO Palm Desert CA 92211 Sports Medicine
Xin Liu, DO Alhambra CA 89052 Sports Medicine
Richard J. Spelts, DO Thousand Oaks CA 91361 Sports Medicine-Family Prac
Joseph S. Hong, DO San Diego CA 92120 Sports Medicine-OMM
Bret C. Powers, DO Huntington Beach CA 92646 Sports Medicine-Orthopedic Sur
Huy Dao, DO Turlock CA 95382 Surgery-General
Blake W. Berman, DO Rancho Cucamonga CA 91730 Surgery-General
Stuart A. Brodsky, DO, BS Carlsbad CA 92009 Surgery-General
Arnold Lim, DO Alamo CA 94507 Surgery-General
John Payton, DO San Diego CA 92124 Surgery-General
Lauren P. Strickland, DO Richmond CA 94806 Surgery-General
Julius W. Gee, DO Martinez CA 94553 Surgery-General
Yong L. Shih, DO Manteca CA 95336 Surgery-General
Eric B. Delman, DO Yuba City CA 95991 Surgery-General
LCDR Bret J. Langenberg, DO San Diego CA 92134 Surgery-General
Huy The T Nguyen, DO San Jose CA 95116 Surgery-General
Arash Mahdavi, DO Orange CA 92869 Surgery-General
Theophil A. Jantz, DO Fort Bragg CA 95437 Surgery-General
William N. Hamstra, DO Livermore CA 94550 Surgery-General
John P. Zopfi, DO Fairfield CA 94533 Surgery-General
Surin Srikureja, DO Deer Park CA 94576 Surgery-General
Salvador P. Renteria, DO San Jose CA 95116 Thoracic Cardiovascular Surg
Jiri Konecny, DO Long Beach CA 90806 Thoracic Cardiovascular Surg
Corby Ropp, DO San Diego CA 92116 Transitional Year
Prateek Jindal, DO Riverside CA 92507 Urgent Care-Family Practice
Ken Nguyen, DO Fontana CA 92335 Urgent Care-Family Practice
David J. Peck, DO San Diego CA 92101 Urgent Care-Family Practice
John J. Kowalczyk, DO Los Angeles CA 90017 Urological Surgery
Moez Khorsandi, DO Los Angeles CA 90017 Urological Surgery
Bruce C. Stone, DO Bakersfield CA 93301 Urological Surgery

And if you think this small sample of individuals all work in the same tiny DO clinic on the other side of the tracks, then you are sorely mistaken and even slightly delusional.

Nothing in life is sunny skies and easy. I can assure you I'm a 100% realist (sometimes borderline pessimist), but you paint a picture of absolutely bleakness that couldn't be further from reality.

mecute said:

There's your answer. ER docs are on hospital salary a lot of the time, meaning IMGs and DOs are welcome as those positions generally pay less. I'm glad you brought up teaching hospitals. Most of these are state-funded which means many of the physicians who are on staff are STATE EMPLOYEES. Last I checked, state employees had the reputation for being underpaid compared to the private sector. That's why the point I made was about Private practice.

By the way, I also work in a level 1 trauma center/teaching hospital. Throughout the hospital and in the ER there are about 50% IMG so does that mean there is no stigma against foreign MDs? News flash, hospitals are a CORPORATION. They make decisions based on the bottom line. If they can find a foreign MD or a DO who will do the job and pay them less, they don't care as much, as long as there is coverage, and the job gets done. Now, a private practice group of 20 MDs is more like a fraternity. They bring on board people they like, admire, and respect as equals. That's drastically different than how a hospital makes its decisions. Are you catching my drift here?

The trend holds true no matter how much you dislike it, DOs and IMGs are favored less in most private practices, but it is seen in varying degrees depending on specialty. Family practice, Pediatrics, EM would see less of a bias than surgery or dermatology, and that's probably where most of the disagreement is coming from. My family members are in Radiology, Orthopaedic surgery, and Ophthalmology which are some of the most difficult fields to enter, especially as a DO so it is not out of the realm of possibility private practice groups in those specialities would be biased against DOs. I honestly don't see how you can dispute this.

Again, you can think what you want to think, and you may be one of a few to buck the trend, but it doesn't change the fact that a bias against DOs exists at all levels, even private practice.

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ER docs underpaid? Last time I checked they had a very high salary with double blanket insurance coverage coming from the hospital.

mecute said:

Again, you didn't read carefully.

"I have 3 family members who are MDs in private practice, one of which's group runs a residency program for a medical school. The Program director told me his group would never interview a DO, much less offer a job to one to join the group."

That implies that they are not in the same group. Let me spell it out anyway, they are in 3 different specialties, 3 different states, and since you're not knowledgeable enough to be in the know, often times private practice groups cover multiple hospitals in different cities, hence the over 50% reference.

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Wow. I'm even more impressed. 3 different physicians from 3 different specialties in 3 different states cover 50% of the state? So a physician from, say, Idaho, covers patients from, say, Montana? Now, that's a busy doc!

I can't wait to be in the know! Right now I have this extremely warped perception that DOs don't starve to death and don't have to go on eBay to look for patients because MDs are taking them all. I must be wrong. Please enlighten me! I want to be in the know! I want to take care of 50% of the population in my state and other states! Let me KNOOOOOOW!

(OK, now I'm being obnoxious).

It'sElectric said:

And if you think this small sample of individuals all work in the same tiny DO clinic on the other side of the tracks, then you are sorely mistaken and even slightly delusional.

Nothing in life is sunny skies and easy. I can assure you I'm a 100% realist (sometimes borderline pessimist), but you paint a picture of absolutely bleakness that couldn't be further from reality.

Click to expand...

Nah...you're not in the know. Those DOs working in all those specialties are simply anecdotal.

I LOVE SDN!!!!

I apologize to all you serious posters in this thread. It was a long day and I'm feeling extra weird (dealing with patients that are just about to die makes me "cope" in strange ways).

Anyway, I won't post in this thread anymore. Please resume your regularly scheduled "myths and realities" of DO vs MD.

Shinken said:

I apologize to all you serious posters in this thread. It was a long day and I'm feeling extra weird (dealing with patients that are just about to die makes me "cope" in strange ways).

Anyway, I won't post in this thread anymore. Please resume your regularly scheduled "myths and realities" of DO vs MD.

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hey my uncles brothers fathers friends dad is a DO who covers all of nyc. he takes care of every patient in the city as well as those in jersey, and he told me that he would never hire a md because they just dont have any bedside manner whatsoever, and also, he is all pay for service provider so he doesnt take insurance.

mecute said:

If you read my post carefully I said I would not provide any evidence because it would just be dismissed as anecdotal. Let me ask you a question, do you think the stigma against DOs when trying to pursue an MD residency just disappear after residency is done? It's only logical that the same bias against DOs obtaining an MD residency applies when obtaining a private practice job. I also didn't say that the DO is not going to have "enough patients," But you better believe he's not doing as well as the MD in the large MD-only group practice in the same area that has the majority of the contracts and deals in place.

I have 3 family members who are MDs in private practice, one of which's group runs a residency program for a medical school. The Program director told me his group would never interview a DO, much less offer a job to one to join the group.

All 3 in private practice have exclusive hospital contracts with their private practice group, with monopoly coverage sometimes over 50% of a single state. If you think a private practice DO is getting the same volume of business than those MDs with those exclusive contracts, you're deluding yourself.

While you may have talked to some MDs and DOs who work side by side, that's already rare. Moreover, what are they supposed to say? "Yeah, my co-worker the DO, is ___________ but I have to put up with him because we work together." Something like over 90% of practicing physicians are MDs? Try talking to MDs in MD-only practices and ask what they think of DOs, then you'll get the overriding truth. I looked in the phone book to contact some DOs to shadow, and lo and behold out of the 4 in the phone book, 3 of them were working in the same small clinic whose name I didn't even recognize. I interviewed one of them and asked him about the stigma against DOs and he said it didn't bother him anymore as much as it used in his first few years practicing and now he just ignores it. Now there's a DO being honest.

Bias against DOs exists at all levels. A lot of people here say it is just a pre-med thing. Wrong. They find out how wrong it is when they try to obtain an MD residency. Then again when trying to find a good group to join. To think the bias disappears after residency is being in denial and a disservice to pre-DOs who may be reading this thread.

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Oh the silliness of many pre-meds. You will get some savy (hopefully) with age and experience. I have spent a professional life-time (22 years since graduation), and most of that time has been in almost exclusively MD groups. I am one of just a few D.O.s in a very well known Emergency Medicine group in California. I have never encountered any probs or "stigma" from my M.D. "brothers in arms". So you think M.D.s and D.Os working together is "rare". You are so clueless I won't even start to rebuke that bit of silliness. It's been common place across the country long before I graduated in 1985. Don't try to defend the indefensible when it comes to ridiculous statements based on your conversations with some brother or dad or whoever you are using as your "knowledge base". )

mecute said:

There's your answer. ER docs are on hospital salary a lot of the time, meaning IMGs and DOs are welcome as those positions generally pay less. I'm glad you brought up teaching hospitals. Most of these are state-funded which means many of the physicians who are on staff are STATE EMPLOYEES. Last I checked, state employees had the reputation for being underpaid compared to the private sector. That's why the point I made was about Private practice.

By the way, I also work in a level 1 trauma center/teaching hospital. Throughout the hospital and in the ER there are about 50% IMG so does that mean there is no stigma against foreign MDs? News flash, hospitals are a CORPORATION. They make decisions based on the bottom line. If they can find a foreign MD or a DO who will do the job and pay them less, they don't care as much, as long as there is coverage, and the job gets done. Now, a private practice group of 20 MDs is more like a fraternity. They bring on board people they like, admire, and respect as equals. That's drastically different than how a hospital makes its decisions. Are you catching my drift here?

The trend holds true no matter how much you dislike it, DOs and IMGs are favored less in most private practices, but it is seen in varying degrees depending on specialty. Family practice, Pediatrics, EM would see less of a bias than surgery or dermatology, and that's probably where most of the disagreement is coming from. My family members are in Radiology, Orthopaedic surgery, and Ophthalmology which are some of the most difficult fields to enter, especially as a DO so it is not out of the realm of possibility private practice groups in those specialities would be biased against DOs. I honestly don't see how you can dispute this.

Again, you can think what you want to think, and you may be one of a few to buck the trend, but it doesn't change the fact that a bias against DOs exists at all levels, even private practice.

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one word...idiot.....

Shinken said:

Wow. I'm even more impressed. 3 different physicians from 3 different specialties in 3 different states cover 50% of the state? So a physician from, say, Idaho, covers patients from, say, Montana? Now, that's a busy doc!

I can't wait to be in the know! Right now I have this extremely warped perception that DOs don't starve to death and don't have to go on eBay to look for patients because MDs are taking them all. I must be wrong. Please enlighten me! I want to be in the know! I want to take care of 50% of the population in my state and other states! Let me KNOOOOOOW!

(OK, now I'm being obnoxious).

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Sigh...it's just simply over your head...Do you know the difference between singular and plural nouns? I said over 50% of the state...NOT states.

Math, reading skills, and common sense is just not your forte.

So if everything is so peachy why is there a sticky on this board about the AMA supporting ending DO discrimination? Is that just a fairy tale? No one has answered that question yet.

I like how most of you have simplified my argument into extremes. I never said DOs starve. I merely said sometimes they make less than their MD counterparts when monopoly and exclusive contracts are concerned in MD-only private practice.

Here's an example for the thick-headed. One of my brothers is an interventional radiologist in a private practice group of ~25 MD radiologists. His group has exclusive contracts for most of the methodist hospitals in the STATE (that means one) the practice is in. He takes home >1 million dollars a year. Are you going to sit there and tell me that a DO radiologist (if there even are any) in his coverage area is going to make as much as him? With what, reading x-rays from family practice clinics? The big money is in CT scans and MRIs. Do family practice clinics have that kind of equipment which costs millions? Doubtful. There is no DO school in this state that he practices in, and most people from there don't even know what a DO is, much less consider them equals to MDs. He openly told me the group would never hire a DO because it would hurt the practice's image and because they don't consider DOs as equals.

Like I've said, i've talked to family and other MDs in ortho, optho, rads, EM, and even derm and they all said in one way or another that they consider DO to be a lesser form of medical education. These are the same specialities where you had to be at the top of your class, have super high board scores, and have done extensive research. In case you didn't notice, there is a lot of snobbery and elitism in the field of medicine. High-powered competitive specialties are no different than academia when it comes to this elitism. Some of you who are supposedly already in practice should know this more than anyone.

In the end, you can believe what you want, but there's some input from the "other" side of the perspective. It's not all rosy and peachy for DOs like many of you have said. No, you won't starve, you'll make a good living, but DOs don't always make the same as MDs in an apples to apples comparison.

mecute said:

Sigh...it's just simply over your head...Do you know the difference between singular and plural nouns? I said over 50% of the state...NOT states.

Math, reading skills, and common sense is just not your forte.

So if everything is so peachy why is there a sticky on this board about the AMA supporting ending DO discrimination? Is that just a fairy tale? No one has answered that question yet.

Click to expand...

it has been answered. most people here agree that discrimination persists in select regions and select specialties. This discrimination is spotty. btw, your ER comments make me dubious of your knowledge on these matters.

mecute said:

Sigh...it's just simply over your head...Do you know the difference between singular and plural nouns? I said over 50% of the state...NOT states.

Math, reading skills, and common sense is just not your forte.

So if everything is so peachy why is there a sticky on this board about the AMA supporting ending DO discrimination? Is that just a fairy tale? No one has answered that question yet.

I like how most of you have simplified my argument into extremes. I never said DOs starve. I merely said sometimes they make less than their MD counterparts when monopoly and exclusive contracts are concerned in MD-only private practice.

Here's an example for the thick-headed. One of my brothers is an interventional radiologist in a private practice group of ~25 MD radiologists. His group has exclusive contracts for most of the methodist hospitals in the STATE (that means one) the practice is in. He takes home >1 million dollars a year. Are you going to sit there and tell me that a DO radiologist (if there even are any) in his coverage area is going to make as much as him? With what, reading x-rays from family practice clinics? The big money is in CT scans and MRIs. Do family practice clinics have that kind of equipment which costs millions? Doubtful. There is no DO school in this state that he practices in, and most people from there don't even know what a DO is, much less consider them equals to MDs. He openly told me the group would never hire a DO because it would hurt the practice's image and because they don't consider DOs as equals.

Like I've said, i've talked to family and other MDs in ortho, optho, rads, EM, and even derm and they all said in one way or another that they consider DO to be a lesser form of medical education. These are the same specialities where you had to be at the top of your class, have super high board scores, and have done extensive research. In case you didn't notice, there is a lot of snobbery and elitism in the field of medicine. High-powered competitive specialties are no different than academia when it comes to this elitism. Some of you who are supposedly already in practice should know this more than anyone.

In the end, you can believe what you want, but there's some input from the "other" side of the perspective. It's not all rosy and peachy for DOs like many of you have said. No, you won't starve, you'll make a good living, but DOs don't always make the same as MDs in an apples to apples comparison.

Click to expand...

Mecute



I think I have now figured out where the flaws in your reasoning on this subject stem from. Like many young people (including myself when I was young), you perceive complex issues as either "black or white". Also the attitudes of a few relatives who are physicians to a relatively inexperienced fellow (in Medicine) can be a forminable nut to crack". Also, you obviously reguard D.O.s as not integrated into the mainstream of the orthodox medical establishment in this county. As a "breed apart" so to speak. You use radiology as the perfect example to support this, painting a picture of the D.O. radiologist with his meager earnings from reading the films of D.O. family practitioners as opposed to your brother making 1 million dollars a year in his practice of interventional radiology. By using the example of D.Os in radiology I was particularly irked, because my experience over 2 decades of emergency medical practice tells me this is blatantly untrue. Let me explaiin. In Missouri the 2 dominant radiology groups (professional corporations) for the western half of the state both had a number (albeit a small number) of D.O. members. These D.O. radiologists believe it or not performed functions identical to their M.D. counterparts as pertains to the most advanced and sophisticated modalities. In 2 Huge Level one (trauma) tertiary Medical Centers involving MRI, CT and any and all diagnostic and interventional modalities one would expect from cutting edge radiology in a major academic facility. In the 3 years since I have moved to California I see the same in the dominant radiology PC (Professional Corporation) out of the Tertiary medical center that services a hundred mile radius. 3 D.Os out of the 25 or so radiologists in the group. Now I understand all this is anecdotal but I am hoping you assume that perhaps there is a core of truth to what I am saying. There is a liberal sprinkling of D.O. specialists in M.D. dominant specialty groups through out this country. And plenty of these are not funded or operated by State, County or City entities. I have been accused of many things over a life of 52 years but blatant falsehoods to my knowledge are not one of them.) For example, Last night, when I called for my Abdominal CT report for one of my E.R. patients I happened to get the report from one the D.O. radiologists out of this "monster" radiology powerhouse.

Mecute, Hand in hand lets walk through what I consider a few undeniable truths (at least for those who have enough experience and knowledge to be able to separate the "wheat from the chaff" as pertains to United States Medicine.

1.) There is considerable bias among many M.D. specialist Professional Corporations in reguards to the hiring of D.O.s into their practice. This has been true in the past and continues to be true in the present.

2.) The majority of M.D. specialty groups will certainly hire a D.O. graduate of a top notch (or even middling) ACGME residency program. (I use radiology here since you seem to think it is the most profound example of M.D.> D.O. disparity.


3.) Never forget that D.O. specialists and residents in training are a tiny percentage of the physician population of the U.S. D.O. numbers are now approaching I believe 6.5% of the aggregate total of Physicians practicing in the United States. The majority of D.O. specialists however receive their training in ACGME programs.

When young residents undergo the some times soul searing and emotionally and physically draining experiences working together for several years it creates a bond. The person you started residency with who took your call when you had a family crises. The man or woman who after years of close association you know full well to be as competent as any of the other residents in your program. Believe me the D.O. versus M.D. deal is essentially a non issue among residents in the same program. I have never heard either an M.D. or D.O. collegue suggest it was in training together. A rare few of them over the years were so abrasive and obnoxious that had there been a grain of truth in this D.O./M.D. antagonism among co-residents they would have gleefully reported it. This is why what you say about D.O. antagonism carrying over past residency strikes me as so ludicrous. No, I do not mean that some residency programs are not un biased as pertains to accepting D.O.s. I refer to D.O.s and M.Ds working together once their training is underway in the same program. When people share these experiences this creates a bond and these men and women out of residency often decide to practice together over the course of their professional lifetime.


I have no doubt that what you say concerning your brothers anti D.O. stance is accurate. I suggest to you that the majority of M.D.s do not share this bias. If it were so, than why would the 3 largest (and most sophisticated) radiology groups I have seen over 2 decades have any D.O. members whatsoever. What on earth would have been their motivation. And come to thnk of it, why have I toiled these many years in M.D. incorporated groups with not even a subtle hint of "stigma" that I could ever discern from my M.D. comrades.

All of this is anecdotal on my part. It is garnered from what I have observed over 20 plus years in practice in predominantly M.D. emergency medicine groups (not hospital funded but private professional corporations.) If my perceptions were otherwise and I were just "parroting the party line" than I would be a true fool. A person who deceives themselves against all evidence is, to me, the epitome of ignorance. D.O.s are seen (epecially given their small numbers) in many "high powered" and "high profile" M.D. dominated specialty groups. This is not a new phenomenon. In my uncles day (a 1960 graduate) it ws unheard of for a D.O. to work in an M.D. specialty group. Not so in the last 25 years.

I am especially sensitive about mis-information about D.Os on SDN and elsewhere. Hence my interest in this thread. I think it important for pre-meds at times to hear a bit of the "voice of experience". If it is any consolation (I doubt if it is), I made many silly and factually unfounded statements about medicine and other topics of my interest when I was a good deal younger than the 52 years I sadly admit to today. It is not "peachy" amd "delusional" for young D.O.s with good training to think he or she can not equal the acheivements of their M.D. collegues in every respect. It is delusional to assume that an anti D.O. bias is non existent in Medicine in the United States. But an even greater "fools task" to assume that a D.O. specialist with good credentials from a respected program can not aim for the stars given hard work and self confidence. Examples abound in excellent medical centers through out the United States of these rather obvious truths as they pertain to D.O. education and employment.

That was a good post but you also supported my point. Missouri is a bad example to use because:

1) Osteopathy was founded there
2) It has been around for well over 100 years in Missouri
3) It has 2 DO schools

Even you admit that the dominant radiology group there has only 3 DO radiologists out of >25

If you look at the # of DO medical graduates compared to the # of MD graduates in missouri the ratio is not too bad. Kcumb graduates ~250 while KCOM graduates ~160(?) for a total of about 400 DO graduates per year. Meanwhile, UM, WU, SLU graduate, slightly more than that. That's about a 1:1 DO to MD ratio. For there to be 3 DOs in that radiology practice is reasonable given the public awareness and respect given to DOs in the state of missouri. Now contrast that a neighboring state, say, Tennessee where there are no DO graduates and 4 MD schools. You will be hard pressed to find any DOs in high-powered MD specialities like radiology.

I didn't say it was impossible for DO graduates to "aim for the stars" i'm pointing out the descrepancy in pay that can exists when you have:

1) MD-only mega practices with monopoly over a large portion of the patient base.

2) Anti-DO bias among MD specialists especially in states without DO schools.

Radiology was one example where access to patients/cases is restricted mainly by hospital referrals and can be controlled by exclusive contracts.

Everyone keeps talking about how it is in California (2 DO schools), New York (1 DO school), Pennsylvania (1 DO school) and Missouri (2 DO Schools) as examples of how there is no discrimination against DOs but what about the other states? How about the south where outside of Florida, Georgia, and now Tennessee there are no DO schools? Even then, the DO schools in Florida, Georgia, and Tennesee haven't been around for more than 20 years or so. The public for the most part doesn't even know what a DO is in MOST states so to paint the picture that what is prevalent in Missouri or California is not an accurate depiction of how it is in the majority of the rest of the country.

I live in CT - 0 DO schools, 2 MD schools. I have a ton of hospital experience and have not seen any first-hand DO discrimination. I am not saying it is definitely not here, but using anectodal evidence just like you. And im done with this thread after this. I don't know how I get myself into debates with these losers.

mecute said:

There's your answer. ER docs are on hospital salary a lot of the time, meaning IMGs and DOs are welcome as those positions generally pay less. I'm glad you brought up teaching hospitals. Most of these are state-funded which means many of the physicians who are on staff are STATE EMPLOYEES. Last I checked, state employees had the reputation for being underpaid compared to the private sector. That's why the point I made was about Private practice.

By the way, I also work in a level 1 trauma center/teaching hospital. Throughout the hospital and in the ER there are about 50% IMG so does that mean there is no stigma against foreign MDs? News flash, hospitals are a CORPORATION. They make decisions based on the bottom line. If they can find a foreign MD or a DO who will do the job and pay them less, they don't care as much, as long as there is coverage, and the job gets done. Now, a private practice group of 20 MDs is more like a fraternity. They bring on board people they like, admire, and respect as equals. That's drastically different than how a hospital makes its decisions. Are you catching my drift here?

The trend holds true no matter how much you dislike it, DOs and IMGs are favored less in most private practices, but it is seen in varying degrees depending on specialty. Family practice, Pediatrics, EM would see less of a bias than surgery or dermatology, and that's probably where most of the disagreement is coming from. My family members are in Radiology, Orthopaedic surgery, and Ophthalmology which are some of the most difficult fields to enter, especially as a DO so it is not out of the realm of possibility private practice groups in those specialities would be biased against DOs. I honestly don't see how you can dispute this.

Again, you can think what you want to think, and you may be one of a few to buck the trend, but it doesn't change the fact that a bias against DOs exists at all levels, even private practice.

Click to expand...

gtleeee said:

I am especially sensitive about mis-information about D.Os on SDN and elsewhere. Hence my interest in this thread. I think it important for pre-meds at times to hear a bit of the "voice of experience". If it is any consolation (I doubt if it is), I made many silly and factually unfounded statements about medicine and other topics of my interest when I was a good deal younger than the 52 years I sadly admit to today. It is not "peachy" amd "delusional" for young D.O.s with good training to think he can not equal the acheivements of his M.D. collegues in every respect. It is delusional to assume that an anti D.O. bias is non existent in Medicine in the United States. But an even greater "fools task" to assume that a D.O. specialist with good credentials from a respected program can not aim for the stars given hard work and self confidence. Examples abound in excellent medical centers through out the United States of these rather obvious truths as they pertain to D.O. education and employment.

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gtleeee,

This is one of the best posts I've read on SDN for quite some time if, for no other reason, it comes from an experienced physician in America, not a pre-med or 1st-4th year med student who makes assertions based on what they may have heard about one time or another. As has been stated time and again, it seems that the DO < MD ideas are perpetuated by those who are not even practicing medicine.

Kudos to you for taking time to tell us of your experiences in medicine so far. Thank you.

thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences, gtleeel.

mecute said:

One of my brothers is an interventional radiologist in a private practice group of ~25 MD radiologists.

Like I've said, i've talked to family and other MDs in ortho, optho, rads, EM, and even derm

Click to expand...

I actually laughed aloud while reading some of mecute's posts.

Quite possibly some of the funniest stuff I've heard, but then again it's coming from a pre-med's mouth so what would you expect. You sound like me on my interviews saying how I knew I wanted to go into medicine from watching and listening to other doctors. This is funny though because I don't think you're even up to the interview stage, yet you seem to think you've got it all figured out because mommy and daddy and your uncle are doctors and told you how it is. I've worked in an ER and in addition spoken to derms, orthopedists, radiologists, etc and they all said the initials after your name mean squat to them once you're practicing. So I guess I know everything I need to know now and should assume that's how it works all over, eh? See how that works? My advice to you is to wait until you get into the real world, or at least medical school (lol) before you try to tell other people how it is.

Oh and by the way, I would love for you to show me a single family practice doctor anywhere in the US that thinks DOs are inferior to him/her. I'm sure you've spoken to thousands who have told you that, but maybe you could post an email or some kind of contact info so that future DOs could hear it for themselves. Thanks.

DrBuffett said:

I think that we need to stop flaming mecute. We could criticize everyone's perspective equally for being limited by their own experiences. We say that we were inspired to pursue medicine because of what we have observed of practicing doctors (however limited that may be), and then are criticized for that. But, I ask, how else is someone supposed gain that first experience? Yet, when someone claiming to be a practicing physician makes a remark, we are so quick to take it on faith, when his perspective may be nearly equally limited. This is what I find so frustrating about med students - they gain so much experience sucking up, they forget how to question and how to think for themselves!

By the way, the initials may not matter, but the med school does, and when the med school doesn't matter, the residency does. You don't have to be a doctor/rocket scientist to realize that there will always be something upon which we are judged as professionals.

Go ahead, flame away....I know you want to.

Click to expand...

No one flaming here. I just wanted to ask if you truly believe that a practicing physician has as equally limited experience as a pre-med (no matter how old they are)? The amount of bureaucracy and BS that all physicians have to deal w/ on a regular basis makes anyone with 20 some odd years of experience a damn near expert on the situation. I don't take any singular person's word on good faith. That's why it's important to get your information from a number of sources that range from physicians and various other healthcare workers to books/journals/etc.

I just hope that you do understand a practicing physician has an exponentially greater understanding of how things work than ANY pre-med in here. Just talk to some of the attendings and private practice physicians in some of the residency forums and you'll quickly understand how little you know and just how much they know.

DrBuffett said:

We say that we were inspired to pursue medicine because of what we have observed of practicing doctors (however limited that may be), and then are criticized for that. But, I ask, how else is someone supposed gain that first experience?

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Yes, but I don't go telling medical students, residents, and doctors how life is, based on what my mommy and daddy and brother told me if I'm just a pre-med myself. Ever wonder why pre-meds have a reputation for being know-it-alls?

So if my brother, the MD, posted here and said the same thing from his own mouth what excuse would you use then? Would you even have a leg to stand on?

*shrugs*

Most of you are so naive you can't see the forest from the trees. If DOs were treated equal to MDs there would be no need for the AMA to call an end to "DO Discrimination." That says it all and that's all I will say on this thread so flame away.

Can you knuckleheads shut up already. Contribute something positive or nothing at all.

beastmaster said:

Can you knuckleheads shut up already. Contribute something positive or nothing at all.

Click to expand...

What knuckleheads?

mecute said:

So if my brother, the MD, posted here and said the same thing from his own mouth what excuse would you use then? Would you even have a leg to stand on?

*shrugs*


Most of you are so naive you can't see the forest from the trees. If DOs were treated equal to MDs there would be no need for the AMA to call an end to "DO Discrimination." That says it all and that's all I will say on this thread so flame away.

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You keep referring to that article, but did you even read it?

The primary discrimination that they want to end refers to the unethical fee that some allopathic institutions charge osteopathic medical students to rotate with them.

Just wanted to make sure you were in the know.

It'sElectric said:

You keep referring to that article, but did you even read it?

The primary discrimination that they want to end refers to the unethical fee that some allopathic institutions charge osteopathic medical students to rotate with them.

Just wanted to make sure you were in the know.

Click to expand...

Wrong.

The majority of it were items pertaining to the "acknowledgement" of DOs as equal to MDs. Why am I not surprised you can't read.

mecute said:

Wrong.

The majority of it were items pertaining to the "acknowledgement" of DOs as equal to MDs. Why am I not surprised you can't read.

Click to expand...

"Whereas, The American Medical Association has current policy supporting the equal acknowledgement of both Doctors of Medicine (MDs) and Doctors of Osteopathy (DOs) (AMA Policies H-405.989 and G-635.053); and

Whereas, Some allopathic institutions clearly state that all US trained allopathic and osteopathic medical students who have taken the United States Medical Licensing Examination and/or Comprehensive Osteopathic Medical Licensing Examination are eligible to complete rotations; and

Whereas, Some allopathic institutions currently charge visiting students of American Osteopathic Association-accredited medical schools an "administrative fee" that is not charged to visiting Liaison Committee on Medical Education medical students; and

Whereas, A majority of US clinical training programs do not establish differing fee scales for allopathic versus osteopathic-trained medical students; therefore be it

RESOLVED, That American Medical Association Policies H-405.989, "Physicians and Surgeons," and G-635.053, "AMA Membership Strategy: Osteopathic Medicine," be reaffirmed (Reaffirm HOD Policy); and be it further

RESOLVED, That our AMA discourage discrimination by institutions and programs based on osteopathic or allopathic training (New HOD Policy); and be it further

RESOLVED, That our AMA support equal fees for clinical rotation externships by osteopathic and allopathic medical students (New HOD Policy); and be it further

RESOLVED, That our AMA encourage that Liaison Committee on Medical Education- and Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education-accredited institutions maintain fair practice standards for equal access to all US medical students, osteopathic and allopathic. (New HOD Policy)"

You really are unable to read that and understand that they are primarily addressing the issue of discrimination by some allopathic institutions towards osteopathic med students who want to rotate with them?

If you can't discern that, then this conversation is hopeless.
Please, someone else with some sort of reading comprehension quiet this joker.

MD's from harvard, yale, and johns hopkins get reimbursed 100% of whatever they charge.

All other MDs get a 15% reduction from medicare, PPO's, and HMO's.

MD's from foreign medical schools get a 35% reduction.

MD's from caribbean schools get a 50% reduction.

DO's get a whopping 75% reduction of their fees because they are the most substandard of all. You would actually get paid higher by Medicare for performing a knee replacement if you were a licensed manicurist and pedicurist.

If you guys don't believe me, ask my cousin. He graduated with an MD degree from harvard, but he wasn't happy with his 5 million a year income so he went back to medical school again to get an MD degree from Yale.

Now he makes 10 million a year!

A DO can probably make that if he works in the next, oh say, 1,650 years!!!!

It'sElectric said:

The primary discrimination that they want to end refers to the unethical fee that some allopathic institutions charge osteopathic medical students to rotate with them.

Just wanted to make sure you were in the know.

Click to expand...

It'sElectric said:

they are primarily addressing the issue of discrimination by some allopathic institutions towards osteopathic med students who want to rotate with them

Click to expand...

Singing a different tune? First you said its about the fee, then you say its about rotations. The equal access to rotations and the acknowledgement of DOs equal as MDs (and the rest of the article you failed to copy) support my point.

Thanks.

mecute said:

Singing a different tune? First you said its about the fee, then you say its about rotations. The equal access to rotations and the acknowledgement of DOs equal as MDs (and the rest of the article you failed to copy) support my point.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

You're an idiot

mecute said:

So if my brother, the MD, posted here and said the same thing from his own mouth what excuse would you use then? Would you even have a leg to stand on?

*shrugs*

Click to expand...

You've already had a DO in here say you're misinformed. How do you still have "a leg to stand on"? Wait, it must be because what mommy and daddy and your brother tell you is how it works all over? Yeah, that's it.

There have been other DO's in the past, as well as residents that are actually going through the process that have contradicted what you seem to think you know as a universal fact. So your brother doesn't respect DOs. So there's a minority of residencies that won't look at a DO application. Such a shame lol. I'm not sure how I'm going to sleep at night.

Go through the process first before you open your mouth and try to tell other doctors what their lives are like.

mecute said:

Singing a different tune? First you said its about the fee, then you say its about rotations. The equal access to rotations and the acknowledgement of DOs equal as MDs (and the rest of the article you failed to copy) support my point.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Wow....just wow. Now you're arguing semantics. I'm guessing you were a lawyer in a former life from the way you talk.

No it's about the fee that some allopathic institutions have charged some osteopathic students to rotate with them. Hence, it is about rotations. So, since some allopathic schools have unethically charged a fee to DO students to rotate with them DOs aren't = to MDs. They were just taking advantage of the system, which is BS, but for some reason I don't think it will result in me being discriminated against by every MD practice out there. Just a hunch. Your logic is infallible. From the very beginning I should've just said what DJ said and not wasted my time.

Good luck to you. My advice, please don't waste your time applying to DO schools. If your entire family is MD, and they've made it abundantly clear that DOs are inferior to MDs, how would you ever be allowed back to family gatherings?!?!

This is what I love about the Osteo board. I come on here saying words like "some DOs" , "some states", "some MD-only practices" and then ItsElectric and his backers falsely quote me as saying "all DOs" "every state" "every MD"


It's easy to make an argument against me and call me names when you are making **** up to support your point.


*yawn*

group_theory said:

According to a 2003 survey by the Medical Group Management Association:

Academic primary care physician - $131,926
Private practice primary care physician - $153,231

Academic specialist - $175,000
Private practice specialist - $274,639

Source: Medical Economics Sep. 5, 2003;80:55.

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Wow.......as a DO anesthesiologist, I can tell you that I wouldn't bother getting out of bed for the salary quoted under "private practice specialist". I make WELL over that which is listed. Food for thought.....

Pennsylvania (1 DO school) ?????

Erie + PCOM = 2 DO schools, but still there is a disparity in the specialties.
I know a DO in an interventional ped cardiology fellowship, said they never held him back due to his degree. One example yes, but that was at Vanderbilt (an MD institution of note).

mecute said:

This is what I love about the Osteo board. I come on here saying words like "some DOs" , "some states", "some MD-only practices" and then ItsElectric and his backers falsely quote me as saying "all DOs" "every state" "every MD"


It's easy to make an argument against me and call me names when you are making **** up to support your point.

................Like I've said, i've talked to family and other MDs in ortho, optho, rads, EM, and even derm and they all said in one way or another that they consider DO to be a lesser form of medical education............

*yawn*

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You could yawn and shrug all you want.

If you came in here saying "there are some residencies that won't consider DO applications, there are some MDs who don't respect DOs", that would be much different than making a blanket statement that "MDs make more money than DOs" and then squirming around in circles when you're proven wrong by residents, students, and a DO in practice himself (keeping in mind you're still just a pre-med). So your daddy's practice wouldn't let a DO in. Your father, as an MD, wouldn't be able to get into a DO residency. So what? Means nothing, right? I promise you, a DO dermatologist makes just as much as an MD dermatologist. You could yell all you want about how your uncle told you DOs are inferior and you've spoken with every MD in the world and the surgeon general and they told you that DOs are incompetent, but the bottom line is, compare the salaries of a DO internal medicine doc to an MD internal medicine doc. Compare the salaries of a DO orthopedic surgeon to that of an MD ortho surgeon. So your daddy's practice wouldn't take a DO. I will guarantee you that DO will have other options besides joining his practice, and will make just as much as your daddy does. By the by, still waiting for some contact info (email is fine) for all these orthopedic, radiologic, emergency medicine, dermatologic physicians that told you DOs get a substandard education.

Actually, DO's don't make as much as MD's do.

DO's aren't even real doctors, they just assist chiropractors. the average salary of a DO isn't even enough to just barely live.

Don't go to DO school dude, they don't make ****.

docmd2010 said:

Actually, DO's don't make as much as MD's do.

DO's aren't even real doctors, they just assist chiropractors. the average salary of a DO isn't even enough to just barely live.

Don't go to DO school dude, they don't make ****.

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My uncle's friend who is a $1 million / year MD pathologist with his own practice agrees with you.

DrBuffett said:

I think that some allopathic medical schools/centers have very "old school" approaches to HR and management decisions. I was looking around the NYP-Columbia website and found zero DOs on the staff. I am aware, from reading lots about Columbia's MD admission for my wife that they tend to be traditional (read: narrow-minded) in other ways, too.

I am willing to bet that there are some old, wrinkly MDs out there in high administrative positions at some institutions who believe that DOs are quacks.

But old MDs don't last forever...

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I am a DO faculty at Georgetown University. When I interviewed here for a job, they said "We haven't had a DO here in 20 years!"

haha

Q

J1515 said:

You could yawn and shrug all you want.

If you came in here saying "there are some residencies that won't consider DO applications, there are some MDs who don't respect DOs", that would be much different than making a blanket statement that "MDs make more money than DOs" and then squirming around in circles when you're proven wrong by residents, students, and a DO in practice himself (keeping in mind you're still just a pre-med).

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Use the Quote feature and show me where I said a blanket statement that MDs make more than DOs..without taking only snippets and taking it out of context please.

mecute said:

While it is true that DO and MD use the same billing codes and thus get paid the same by insurance companies, what everyone is overlooking here is that DOs for the most part have a hard time breaking into an MD-only private practice groups due to stigma and bias against DOs by practicing MDs. In many areas of the country there are a handful of large groups (MD only) that dominate the majority of business ie. exclusive hospital contracts, that means the DO will often work in the less busy, smaller practice which = less money than the MD working in the dominant group practice in the same field in the same area.

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Any more comments? Or are you ready to wait until you shed your pre-med status and experience the real world yourself? I'm not sure where you're getting this "handful of MD groups that dominate the majority of business" from. In fact, a number of DOs that graduate from my school (for example) open up their own practice after residency and have just as many patients, whether it be internal meds, family, ortho, neurology, or derm, although I'm not sure if we've had a derm match the last 2 years. The bottom line that you don't seem to be grasping is that there are plenty of patients to go around. I've never seen an MD or DO who says "I need more patients" or "I'm not busy enough, I'm spending too much time with my family."

It's funny that you think DOs really work in practices that are less busy than MDs. I know a few that wish that were true.

2easy said:

MD's from harvard, yale, and johns hopkins get reimbursed 100% of whatever they charge.

All other MDs get a 15% reduction from medicare, PPO's, and HMO's.

MD's from foreign medical schools get a 35% reduction.

MD's from caribbean schools get a 50% reduction.

DO's get a whopping 75% reduction of their fees because they are the most substandard of all. You would actually get paid higher by Medicare for performing a knee replacement if you were a licensed manicurist and pedicurist.

If you guys don't believe me, ask my cousin. He graduated with an MD degree from harvard, but he wasn't happy with his 5 million a year income so he went back to medical school again to get an MD degree from Yale.

Now he makes 10 million a year!

A DO can probably make that if he works in the next, oh say, 1,650 years!!!!

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My only question is where did you learn how to debate? You argue like a child. The line, " ask my cousin," holds no water. For example, I am good in bed, ask your sister, I ****ed her in the ass last night. Now where did that get us? No where, you don't believe me, and your sister still can't walk straight. If you are going to sit here all day throwing out family members who don't exist then why don't you just sit on the sidelines and let the adults handle this. I don't care if your cousin is in the porn industry and makes 5 billion a year. You show me a cold hard fact that says that DO's make less than MDs. No examples of one or two doctors that "you know." If that is your idea of research then I would hate to see you doing anything that actually helped anyone. The same goes mecute or meugly, whatever your name is. These arguments always end the same, you saying my brother's uncle knew a guy who had sex with some girl who told him her back alley doctor made 7 million a year. The truth is: if DOs made any less than MDs there would be a division in the department of labor. Do you see one? But, wait, here I will bring it down to your level: my uncle said that we all make the same because the U.S. Department of Labor does not divide between D.O. and M.D. There you go, I hope you understand it now.

Jamers said:

My only question is where did you learn how to debate? You argue like a child. The line, " ask my cousin," holds no water. For example, I am good in bed, ask your sister, I ****ed her in the ass last night. Now where did that get us? No where, you don't believe me, and your sister still can't walk straight. If you are going to sit here all day throwing out family members who don't exist then why don't you just sit on the sidelines and let the adults handle this. I don't care if your cousin is in the porn industry and makes 5 billion a year. You show me a cold hard fact that says that DO's make less than MDs. No examples of one or two doctors that "you know." If that is your idea of research then I would hate to see you doing anything that actually helped anyone. The same goes mecute or meugly, whatever your name is. These arguments always end the same, you saying my brother's uncle knew a guy who had sex with some girl who told him her back alley doctor made 7 million a year. The truth is: if DOs made any less than MDs there would be a division in the department of labor. Do you see one? But, wait, here I will bring it down to your level: my uncle said that we all make the same because the U.S. Department of Labor does not divide between D.O. and M.D. There you go, I hope you understand it now.

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Whoa, Jamers. 2easy's quote was a joke, I'm sure of it.