Advice from me for the me of 4 years ago...

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H0mersimps0n

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As I sit here with COMLEX scores that tickle the mean, subpar USMLE scores and not a single interview invite for my dream residency I ponder where I went wrong.

I didn't want to come in here to dash anyone's dreams or tell you to avoid DO schools I just wanted to speak out loud as if I could give myself advice four years ago hoping someone in my situation thinks a little harder than I did.

While there are complex details I'll surely leave out (mostly personal/relationship related) here it my story:

I was a pro in high school and was accepted to a prestigious University in my hometown. I took extremely difficult science courses and setup a very aggressive four years of undergraduate work. My grandmother died and my girlfriend of 2 years dumped me at the same time as ORGO I started my sophomore year- as it was no surprise I could not keep up with University-setting ORGO I with the drama that was occurring and withdrew from the class. In the end I was able to retake and pass (barely) and finished up with a science GPA that was average (around 3.0 if I remember) and my overall around 3.2.

The MCAT killed me. I took the Kraplan course for the first go at it and got a 23 with great science scores and a verbal of 6. I retook, I raised my science scores and scored a 3 on verbal for a 22 the second time. Obviously no single MD school would consider me with those two scores. More forgiving DO schools (3) interviewed me and one actually accepted.

I managed to fight the inner struggle of being an MD-wannabe and always was the question about the quality of my education. I embraced osteopathic manipulation and took it very seriously compared to many of my classmates. I was a DO student and it was my medicine. Still I worried.

I passed anatomy (survived the weed-out) with a 78. Obtained mostly B's with as many C's as I did A's. My second year was mostly B's. By Jan-Feb of my second year I was already doing USMLE/COMLEX questions on a limited basis and reading from books. I knew early I wanted to be competitive with my MD colleagues, have great scores and vie for respectable residencies- prove to myself I hadn't received a crappy education. To move ahead I had written off and labeled myself as "a bad test taker" to rationalize my incompetency with the MCAT and undergrad performance.

I studied hard for the COMLEX step I and USMLE step I which is UNWISELY scheduled 8 days apart (which for someone like me was certainly idiot and death). I got a 182/75 on the USMLE and a 490/79 (the mean) on the COMLEX. Tears, anger, frustration as I'll never ever forget where I was when I opened that USMLE score report and my heart broke knowing I'd totally scrapped all chances of being taken seriously by good residency programs.

I picked myself up and convinced myself that my real strength was my people skills (seeing the trend?) and managed to do quite well my 3rd and 4th year. I studied twice as hard and infinitely smarter (thanks to my wife and HER school advisor's) and managed to pull my USMLE step 2 up to 210/85 and COMLEX up to 547/85. Still not achieving my goal but settling my mind a little bit about where I stand with MD students (remember my concern about quality of education).

So now to present time. I sit here having completely fooled myself into thinking I can beg, steal, claw my way into a residency using some back door despite my board scores. Unfortunately my passion lay within one of the top 5 most competitive residencies. I have not, and reality being told, will not be receiving any interviews for my specialty despite spending more than 20 weeks doing elective away rotations at 5 different programs. Devastating doesn't even describe it. This is the first time in my 20 year academic career that I FINALLY know what I want to spend the rest of my life doing and I have to deal with all the self-deception and failures of my past.

So what would I have done differently? Ahh beautiful hindsight...

In my personal opinion if any of the above sounds like you stop what you are doing, go find a beautiful field by yourself somewhere and reflect on your decision to go to medical school. My #1 reason to rush into anything that had the words "medical" and "school" in the name was student debt I didn't thinK I could handle if I turned down an acceptance to work and reapply.

Which brings me to my next point. IF you think you might have convinced yourself you might be a "bad test taker" go get a hobby and continue onto academia. I highly recommend getting an MPH or nearly any Masters degree. Get away from tests, learn to read, research, raise grades, study for MCATs properly, etc.

Osteopathic schools, sadly, are in it for the money 100%. I can't blame anyone but myself for my board scores or grades however. There are plenty of my classmates who rocked the USMLE as DO students- it is possible, you just have to have your head on straight. I certainly do not.

In summary, my lessons learned.

#1: Don't rush the process. Don't chase the dream so hard you refuse to recognize your own weaknesses which need correcting before embarking on this incredible journey; medical school.

#2: Don't worry about money unless you go into medical school. IMO it is completely indisputable that our education investment:return ratio is the lowest overall and I'm NOT just talking money

#3: If you find yourself saying "I'm a bad test taker" or "what I lack in intelligence I make up for in people skills" STOP! If you have high standards and expectations for yourself and your career this mode of thinking will dog you and lead you in all directions except the one you want (unless you want to be a broke FP).

#4: Study hard, very hard, harder than your hardest if you're like me and tend to struggle (see, still can't stop making excuses), your responsible for your own education and there is no hand-holding in this profession- only lawsuits when it comes to accountability.

#5: Take the USMLE if you desire more than the crap DO residencies out there (to be fair probably 80-90% are crap with the 10% exception). DO's are hardly discriminated against anywhere anymore however most PD's will tell you that in applicant fields of 1000's providing an orange when everyone has nice shiny apples doesn't help you.

#6: If you find yourself needing to setup more than 2 away elective "audition" rotations start asking questions about how real you are being with yourself and your chances.

#7: Relationships happen and certainly complicate situations. Your happiness is what should drive what you envision for your future- do not let others dictate that vision or get in the way of your goals. Support is a two-way street

#8: If you heart is set on MD school- hold out. Get 10 masters degree's if you have to. Don't live a regret.

EDIT: OMG- I almost forgot the most important lesson of all which I'll make 9 AND 10 because it something everyone everywhere should know from the start - TEST SCORES ARE ALL THAT MATTER - there are too many applications to programs whether it be medical school or residency and understandably they have to begin somewhere. Establish top notch scores by whatever means possible (except cheating of course).

I'm sure I'll think of more to say and edits will be frequent.

Good luck to the applicants this year, I hope you are all doing this for the right reason. The process is too long and too hard not to.

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As I sit here with COMLEX scores that tickle the mean, subpar USMLE scores and not a single interview invite for my dream residency I ponder where I went wrong.

I didn't want to come in here to dash anyone's dreams or tell you to avoid DO schools I just wanted to speak out loud as if I could give myself advice four years ago hoping someone in my situation thinks a little harder than I did.

While there are complex details I'll surely leave out (mostly personal/relationship related) here it my story:

I was a pro in high school and was accepted to a prestigious University in my hometown. I took extremely difficult science courses and setup a very aggressive four years of undergraduate work. My grandmother died and my girlfriend of 2 years dumped me at the same time as ORGO I started my sophomore year- as it was no surprise I could not keep up with University-setting ORGO I with the drama that was occurring and withdrew from the class. In the end I was able to retake and pass (barely) and finished up with a science GPA that was average (around 3.0 if I remember) and my overall around 3.2.

The MCAT killed me. I took the Kraplan course for the first go at it and got a 23 with great science scores and a verbal of 6. I retook, I raised my science scores and scored a 3 on verbal for a 22 the second time. Obviously no single MD school would consider me with those two scores. More forgiving DO schools (3) interviewed me and one actually accepted.

I managed to fight the inner struggle of being an MD-wannabe and always was the question about the quality of my education. I embraced osteopathic manipulation and took it very seriously compared to many of my classmates. I was a DO student and it was my medicine. Still I worried.

I passed anatomy (survived the weed-out) with a 78. Obtained mostly B's with as many C's as I did A's. My second year was mostly B's. By Jan-Feb of my second year I was already doing questions on a limited basis and reading from books. I knew early I wanted to be competitive with my MD colleagues and vie for respectable residencies. I had written off and labeled myself as "a bad test taker" to rationalize my incompetency with the MCAT and undergrad performance.

I studied hard for the COMLEX step I and USMLE step I which is UNWISELY scheduled 8 days apart (which for someone like me was certainly idiot and death). I got a 182/75 on the USMLE and a 490/79 (the mean) on the COMLEX. Tears, anger, frustration as I'll never ever forget where I was when I opened that USMLE score report and my heart broke knowing I'd totally scrapped all chances of being taken seriously by good residency programs.

I picked myself up and convinced myself that my real strength was my people skills (seeing the trend?) and managed to do quite well my 3rd and 4th year. I studied twice as hard and infinitely smarter (thanks to my wife and HER school advisor's) and managed to pull my USMLE step 2 up to 210/85 and COMLEX up to 547/85. Still not achieving my goal but settling my mind a little bit about where I stand with MD students (remember my concern about quality of education).

So, now to present time. I sit here having completely fooled myself into thinking I can beg, steal, claw my way in through some back door or some connection despite my board scores into one of the top 5 most competitive residencies. I have not and will not be receiving any interviews for my specialty despite spending more than 20 weeks doing elective away rotations at 5 different programs. devastating doesn't even describe it. This is the first time in my 20 year academic career that I FINALLY know what I want to spend the rest of my life doing and I have to deal with all the self-deception and failures of my past.

So what would I have done differently? Ahh beautiful hindsight...

In my personal opinion if any of the above sounds like you stop what you are doing, go find a beautiful field by yourself somewhere and reflect on your decision to go to medical school. My #1 reason to rush into anything that had the words "medical" and "school" in the name was student debt I didn't thinK I could handle if I turned down an acceptance to work and reapply.

Which brings me to my next point. IF you think you might have convinced yourself you might be a "bad test taker" go get a hobby and continue onto academia. I highly recommend getting an MPH or nearly any Masters degree. Get away from tests, learn to read, research, raise grades, study for MCATs properly, etc.

Osteopathic schools, sadly, are in it for the money 100%. I can't blame anyone but myself for my board scores or grades however. There are plenty of my classmates who rocked the USMLE as DO students- it is possible, you just have to have your head on straight. I certainly do not.

In summary, my lessons learned.

#1: Don't rush the process. Don't chase the dream so hard you refuse to recognize your own weaknesses which need correcting before embarking on this incredible journey; medical school.

#2: Don't worry about money unless you go into medical school. IMO it is completely indisputable that our education investment:return ratio is the lowest overall and I'm NOT just talking money

#3: If you find yourself saying "I'm a bad test taker" or "what I lack in intelligence I make up for in people skills" STOP! If you have high standards and expectations for yourself and your career this mode of thinking will dog you and lead you in all directions except the one you want (unless you want to be a broke FP).

#4: Study hard, very hard, harder than your hardest if you're like me and tend to struggle (see, still can't stop making excuses), your responsible for your own education and there is no hand-holding in this profession- only lawsuits when it comes to accountability.

#5: Take the USMLE if you desire more than the crap DO residencies out there (to be fair probably 80-90% are crap with the 10% exception). DO's are hardly discriminated against anywhere anymore however most PD's will tell you that in applicant fields of 1000's providing an orange when everyone has nice shiny apples doesn't help you.

#6: If you find yourself needing to setup more than 2 away elective "audition" rotations start asking questions about how real you are being with yourself and your chances.

#7: Relationships happen and certainly complicate situations. Your happiness is what should drive what you envision for your future- do not let others dictate that vision or get in the way of your goals. Support is a two-way street

#8: If you heart is set on MD school- hold out. Get 10 masters degree's if you have to. Don't live a regret.

I'm sure I'll think of more to say and edits will be frequent.

Good luck to the applicants this year, I hope you are all doing this for the right reason. The process is too long and too hard not to.

Sorry to hear things didn't work out the way you wanted them too.
 
That story really makes me sad. I really appreciate the insight, a lot of it will help me in the future. So what residency did you want that is so hard to get into?
 
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It's sad that as a med student you consider FP to be "crappy." Personally I know many FP's and my own primary care doc who is a DO and they are very successful. I wouldn't really consider that "crap." Good luck with the rest of your journey. See you on the other side soon.
 
It's sad that as a med student you consider FP to be "crappy." Personally I know many FP's and my own primary care doc who is a DO and they are very successful. I wouldn't really consider that "crap." Good luck with the rest of your journey. See you on the other side soon.

No doubt.

"I'm now a FREAKIN DOCTOR, and I'll probably only make about $100,00-$200,00 dollars a year BEING A FREAKIN DOCTOR and doing what I love. I worked my a$$ off and only got average grades. Oh did I mention, I'm a FREAKIN DOCTOR??"

Come on. You should be proud of what you did. Do you really think that by going to an MD school your scores would have really improved that much???

No.

I'm in the trenches right now busting my a$$ and when I'm finished, I'll be damn proud of my accomplishments. You should be too. If not, I really feel sorry for you. Best of luck with that. I REALLY hope it gets better for you.
 
If u still want that specialty, u can do your residency in internal medicine and then do a fellowship in the specialty that you want later. I know plenty of people that got into competitive specialties that way.
 
thanks for the advice. . . it's hard but def a smart idea to look into a medical career realistically knowing your weaknesses and whatnot
 
Sorry this isn't working out as you had hoped. Anyway, apply for a pre-lim year and get some research done and give this specialty another shot if its really all you can picture doing. Not even MD's and DO's w/ 99% boards gets into Derm, plastics, ortho, etc.....they pick backups and develop a realistic plan.

btw.. Your post was filled w/ a lot of honest reflections...but putting any of this blame on DO schools in general is total BS
 
Stories like this are so sad. Hope everything works out for you.
 
I think people talking down to FP is getting a little old. I am NOT considering FP, but how many broke physicians do you know? The truth of the matter is that FP's make pretty damn good money if you play your cards right. I know for a fact (however, I will not discuss on this forum how) that FP in my area with groups are making on average close to 200K. This is not to mention the usually 9 - 20K signing bonuses & loan repayment (employer makes YOUR PAYMENTS) deals that are commonplace.

Sorry to hear your troubles, but the shortage of FP docs is really driving the market & is not expected to slow any time soon. Wise up & pull your self-proclaimed great people skills-filled-head out of your a$$. If you are such a great doc w/ a great personality, you should easily get hired out of residency by a group who knows you will bring in business.
 
jbone you're right.

In all, it appears I have lost a lot of perspective. For almost 2 years I've lived out of my car moving from rotation to rotation, hospital housing crack house to crack house and that has taken a beating on my morale as well.

I've always said if you're going to make mistakes at least learn from them. While I can't turn back the clock I hope I've provided some (useful) prospective.

I refuse to turn this into a thread debating the future of FP. I will say I think DO schools should cut our education down to 3 years and have us sign onto FP only. People will pay $100's to watch their professional sports people make millions and even pay their mechanics more than their FP's. It won't be until people in this country get their priorities straight that it makes sense to travel in that direction. For now, it seems, Walmart is the preferred value people place on their health. (so much for ending that conversation). In the end, my passion leads me to another unnamed specialty- FP is not the issue.


Good luck everyone!
 
Hi, I am also a 4th year DO student.
I do have to disagree a bit with the OP statements... its not so much about a DO education being inferior , or the opportunity being less, w/e. There will always be those who discriminate. You didnt go the Harvard? we cant take you? Youre a DO , we cant take you... etc.
With that being said, yes its much tougher to get into the super hot fields for a do than an md, simply by the virtue of statistics.
I do think that the major issue most people who didnt succeed while in do school have is that they think they settled and then paid for it. If you dont want to be DO, dont do it... get a masters, retake the mcat, etc etc.
In fact, if you dont want to go to any md school other than harvard (example) the same theory should apply...dont go anywhere where you are not excited about going. In the end, we can only blame ourselves for our failures, and not the institutions we matriculate at. Most institutions are in it for the money 100%. They are businesses , after all.

as for not going into medicine in the first place and having one of the worst return on investment ratios...hell yea, we have it bad financially, in comparison. I may not have gone to med school if i had to do it again, but im happy where I am given the decisions i have made at this point in life...
if i dont match, maybe ill sing a different tune though.
 
homer, the problem with people paying for health care is complex and not as simple as the "value they place upon it". Just ask anyone who is a parent and trying to make it on one job that isn't a doctor, lawyer, or CEO. 40 years ago it was possible to raise a middle-class family on one income. It is not possible to do that any longer. Housing is outrageous, groceries terrible, heating, electricity climb double digits every year it seems. With the costs of everything else going up, something has to give, and that something is often the thing folks don't use very often. And that's healthcare. yet they sabotage that very precious commodity every day by eating crap, walking almost never, sitting in front of the TV all the time, etc etc. So they end up needing the healthcare more than ever.

Ah, but i digress. I'm sorry things didn't work out the way your dreams pointed you. Sometimes that's for a good reason that will be revealed years later. In the meantime, explore your options. How about going for a traditional rotating internship and then applying for a PGY-2 year? It's time to be proactive and stop whining. Take responsibility, look yourself in the mirror, and say "ok. so it's not working out easy... how can I make it work anyway?" and then start rattling cages, asking questions, and don't say no. You didn't get to med school by saying no, maybe it's time to look at your options again. Not all DO residency programs are horrible. Look into those again. Is it perhaps work going into one of those less-desirable residency positions and then doing fellowships later?

Look at it this way: when was the last time you ever asked your doctor where he did his residency? What does the layperson know about residency programs anyway? for that matter, many healthcare folks are woefully ignorant of graduate education. Stop whining and look for answers my friend.





And as an aside.. JBONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how's it goin'???? miss you..... :sniff:
 
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In addition to making sure I stated this was not an anti-DO thread I also tried to make it clear that there are many exceptional people in my class getting exceptional interviews and residencies.

I do take responsibility for my own education however I feel as though I probably personally needed a little more guidance academically than my school had to offer and possibly that I was willing to seek/accept.

A year-off or two probably would've done me well.

In no way did I come on here and say "school "X"COM is a crap school and screwed me".

I think my school definitely lacked in a few departments during first two years but it was my prerogative to fill in the gaps.
 
homer, the problem with people paying for health care is complex and not as simple as the "value they place upon it". Just ask anyone who is a parent and trying to make it on one job that isn't a doctor, lawyer, or CEO. 40 years ago it was possible to raise a middle-class family on one income. It is not possible to do that any longer. Housing is outrageous, groceries terrible, heating, electricity climb double digits every year it seems. With the costs of everything else going up, something has to give, and that something is often the thing folks don't use very often. And that's healthcare. yet they sabotage that very precious commodity every day by eating crap, walking almost never, sitting in front of the TV all the time, etc etc. So they end up needing the healthcare more than ever.

Ah, but i digress. I'm sorry things didn't work out the way your dreams pointed you. Sometimes that's for a good reason that will be revealed years later. In the meantime, explore your options. How about going for a traditional rotating internship and then applying for a PGY-2 year? It's time to be proactive and stop whining. Take responsibility, look yourself in the mirror, and say "ok. so it's not working out easy... how can I make it work anyway?" and then start rattling cages, asking questions, and don't say no. You didn't get to med school by saying no, maybe it's time to look at your options again. Not all DO residency programs are horrible. Look into those again. Is it perhaps work going into one of those less-desirable residency positions and then doing fellowships later?

Look at it this way: when was the last time you ever asked your doctor where he did his residency? What does the layperson know about residency programs anyway? for that matter, many healthcare folks are woefully ignorant of graduate education. Stop whining and look for answers my friend.





And as an aside.. JBONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how's it goin'???? miss you..... :sniff:


I didn't think I was whining but it's all about perception.

...and if traveling, paying expenses, getting LORs, resarching constantly how to get the position, being away from family, sitting in a dark room for 20 weeks watching someone do with you love day in and day out doesn't say enough for you to think I am unbelievably serious about "making it work" I don't know what will.

I am serious about reapplying, being tactical in where I do my prelim med year and already researching for scrambles and no-match scenarios. I AM going to fight for this, you all just caught me on a bad night when I'm sick and needed to vent.

Good perspective on the middle-class issue. Lord knows I've heard Lou Dobbs go off on the destruction of the middle-class in this country. But hey, all that big-business tax cuts and money has to "trickle down" eventually right? - lol... I guess if you're under the repubs though it's more like slide down with us all at the bottom- lol *a second pandora's box*
 
The problem with the attitude you have, is that your are only looking at extremes....i.e. awesome specialist or broke FP. Why are these the only 2 options? What about IM, PM and R, Psych, Peds, Critical Care/Pulm, even general surgery! These fields are by no means out of reach and out of the hundreds of residencies don't you think that even the average ones are putting out good docs?

As far as return on investment, this may sound cliche but do you remember why you got into medicine? If you only went into it for the money then you deserve whatever you get. If you did have some altruism way down there in your misery and stress then pick it up again! Obviously we all want to be comfortable, but if you really wanted to be rich you should have gone into the financial industry or hell just be a lawyer! It's only 3 years. Sorry to get on my soapbox but we all got into this for a reason. The letters DO Vs. MD won't mean crap when you are helping a sick 3 year old at 3 AM etc etc. insert your corny story here_________. You get the point

BMW-
 
I think people talking down to FP is getting a little old. I am NOT considering FP, but how many broke physicians do you know? The truth of the matter is that FP's make pretty damn good money if you play your cards right. I know for a fact (however, I will not discuss on this forum how) that FP in my area with groups are making on average close to 200K. This is not to mention the usually 9 - 20K signing bonuses & loan repayment (employer makes YOUR PAYMENTS) deals that are commonplace.

Sorry to hear your troubles, but the shortage of FP docs is really driving the market & is not expected to slow any time soon. Wise up & pull your self-proclaimed great people skills-filled-head out of your a$$. If you are such a great doc w/ a great personality, you should easily get hired out of residency by a group who knows you will bring in business.

The problem with FPs and doctors in virtually every specialty is that docs tend to be the opposite of good business men/women, which is why there is a shift in medicine in which doctors practice in larger practices that are run by an administrative (business) group. I cannot understand this, but I am an accounting major so I have a little bit of a different perspective. The key to making money in any profession is to run your own practice and learn (don't be lazy) how to make good business decisions.
 
yeah, we'll see how strong your altruism is when you're a fourth year and the loan company's are bashing down your door for the $250k you owe them...

I just calculated my loans yesterday. I have $195k in federal and about $45k in private. By the time I finish paying off my loans they'll total more than $400,000 in interest.

Can't defer/forbear the 45k in private loans, still not sure how I'm going to pay that making $35k/year.

The math is scary. If I did love helping people I wouldn't be here having this conversation upset that I can't practice in the field I want to.

Many of those fields you mention are nice but not to my liking. I find IM to be particularly malignant speciality regardless of where it is. IM subspecialities- well, maybe........
 
The problem with FPs and doctors in virtually every specialty is that docs tend to be the opposite of good business men/women, which is why there is a shift in medicine in which doctors practice in larger practices that are run by an administrative (business) group. I cannot understand this, but I am an accounting major so I have a little bit of a different perspective. The key to making money in any profession is to run your own practice and learn (don't be lazy) how to make good business decisions.

I've seen this a lot in many of the cities I've been in. Groups are swallowing FP's up like mad!
 
jbone you're right.

In all, it appears I have lost a lot of perspective. For almost 2 years I've lived out of my car moving from rotation to rotation, hospital housing crack house to crack house and that has taken a beating on my morale as well.

I've always said if you're going to make mistakes at least learn from them. While I can't turn back the clock I hope I've provided some (useful) prospective.

I refuse to turn this into a thread debating the future of FP. I will say I think DO schools should cut our education down to 3 years and have us sign onto FP only. People will pay $100's to watch their professional sports people make millions and even pay their mechanics more than their FP's. It won't be until people in this country get their priorities straight that it makes sense to travel in that direction. For now, it seems, Walmart is the preferred value people place on their health. (so much for ending that conversation). In the end, my passion leads me to another unnamed specialty- FP is not the issue.


Good luck everyone!

I wasn't trying to get down on you. I just find it amazing that you can spend $200,000 plus, work your a$$ off in school, pull good grades, sleep in the freakin car, get your degree as a DOCTOR and still feel bad. Dude, congratulate yourself!! You are doing what many countless people (including myself) dream of doing. Be proud of it and if your not, make some changes. I sincerely wish you the best and know that it will work out. Hell, I'm just a lowly first year and I'm jealous. Just be glad you don't have a big a$$ head/neck anatomy test in a couple of days. I guess I better start studying. :laugh:

Play nice and keep us posted...Doctor. :thumbup:
J

BTW, SHY!!! I FREAKIN LOVE YOU!! Miss ya and I hope all is going well in school. Keep me updated!!
 
Your Comlex and USMLE scores are the reason that you are having a hard time, but the DO education... am i right?:confused: Verbal Reasoning scores have been shown to correlate reasonably well with USMLE scores. I hope can do whatever you want to do , but don't blame the wrong people and keep your head up.
 
Yes we are all in the same boat. Up to our a$$es in debt. The point I was making is that if you went into medicine for the money you are going to be miserable. By the way even the private loan companies will work with you on payment plans (should not be much more than a car payment on 45k). The federal loans you can defer until you are a full out doc. People always cry about making loan payments of 1000-2000k a month when they are making $175,000 so instead you'll make $150k for a few years. You'll survive. Would you rather be pushing a pencil at a desk job for $75k a year with no chance of promotion and ready to shoot yourself with a rubber band gun out of boredom!

Besides, it is hard to have sympathy when you won't tell us WHAT specialty you had your dreams set on. If it was Cardio-Thoracic surgery or interventional radiology yeah guess what....none of us are getting it. What did you want to do.?

BMW-


yeah, we'll see how strong your altruism is when you're a fourth year and the loan company's are bashing down your door for the $250k you owe them...

I just calculated my loans yesterday. I have $195k in federal and about $45k in private. By the time I finish paying off my loans they'll total more than $400,000 in interest.

Can't defer/forbear the 45k in private loans, still not sure how I'm going to pay that making $35k/year.

The math is scary. If I did love helping people I wouldn't be here having this conversation upset that I can't practice in the field I want to.

Many of those fields you mention are nice but not to my liking. I find IM to be particularly malignant speciality regardless of where it is. IM subspecialities- well, maybe........
 
I am a new comer here.

I am sorry to hear your situation, but somehow you will find a way to overcome your problems. After all, you have fought your way through to become a doctor.


P.S: Can anyone please tell me what a DO can't do that a MD can?
 
As I sit here with COMLEX scores that tickle the mean, subpar USMLE scores and not a single interview invite for my dream residency I ponder where I went wrong.

I didn't want to come in here to dash anyone's dreams or tell you to avoid DO schools I just wanted to speak out loud as if I could give myself advice four years ago hoping someone in my situation thinks a little harder than I did.

While there are complex details I'll surely leave out (mostly personal/relationship related) here it my story:

I was a pro in high school and was accepted to a prestigious University in my hometown. I took extremely difficult science courses and setup a very aggressive four years of undergraduate work. My grandmother died and my girlfriend of 2 years dumped me at the same time as ORGO I started my sophomore year- as it was no surprise I could not keep up with University-setting ORGO I with the drama that was occurring and withdrew from the class. In the end I was able to retake and pass (barely) and finished up with a science GPA that was average (around 3.0 if I remember) and my overall around 3.2.

The MCAT killed me. I took the Kraplan course for the first go at it and got a 23 with great science scores and a verbal of 6. I retook, I raised my science scores and scored a 3 on verbal for a 22 the second time. Obviously no single MD school would consider me with those two scores. More forgiving DO schools (3) interviewed me and one actually accepted.

I managed to fight the inner struggle of being an MD-wannabe and always was the question about the quality of my education. I embraced osteopathic manipulation and took it very seriously compared to many of my classmates. I was a DO student and it was my medicine. Still I worried.

I passed anatomy (survived the weed-out) with a 78. Obtained mostly B's with as many C's as I did A's. My second year was mostly B's. By Jan-Feb of my second year I was already doing USMLE/COMLEX questions on a limited basis and reading from books. I knew early I wanted to be competitive with my MD colleagues, have great scores and vie for respectable residencies- prove to myself I hadn't received a crappy education. To move ahead I had written off and labeled myself as "a bad test taker" to rationalize my incompetency with the MCAT and undergrad performance.

I studied hard for the COMLEX step I and USMLE step I which is UNWISELY scheduled 8 days apart (which for someone like me was certainly idiot and death). I got a 182/75 on the USMLE and a 490/79 (the mean) on the COMLEX. Tears, anger, frustration as I'll never ever forget where I was when I opened that USMLE score report and my heart broke knowing I'd totally scrapped all chances of being taken seriously by good residency programs.

I picked myself up and convinced myself that my real strength was my people skills (seeing the trend?) and managed to do quite well my 3rd and 4th year. I studied twice as hard and infinitely smarter (thanks to my wife and HER school advisor's) and managed to pull my USMLE step 2 up to 210/85 and COMLEX up to 547/85. Still not achieving my goal but settling my mind a little bit about where I stand with MD students (remember my concern about quality of education).

So now to present time. I sit here having completely fooled myself into thinking I can beg, steal, claw my way into a residency using some back door despite my board scores. Unfortunately my passion lay within one of the top 5 most competitive residencies. I have not, and reality being told, will not be receiving any interviews for my specialty despite spending more than 20 weeks doing elective away rotations at 5 different programs. Devastating doesn't even describe it. This is the first time in my 20 year academic career that I FINALLY know what I want to spend the rest of my life doing and I have to deal with all the self-deception and failures of my past.

So what would I have done differently? Ahh beautiful hindsight...

In my personal opinion if any of the above sounds like you stop what you are doing, go find a beautiful field by yourself somewhere and reflect on your decision to go to medical school. My #1 reason to rush into anything that had the words "medical" and "school" in the name was student debt I didn't thinK I could handle if I turned down an acceptance to work and reapply.

Which brings me to my next point. IF you think you might have convinced yourself you might be a "bad test taker" go get a hobby and continue onto academia. I highly recommend getting an MPH or nearly any Masters degree. Get away from tests, learn to read, research, raise grades, study for MCATs properly, etc.

Osteopathic schools, sadly, are in it for the money 100%. I can't blame anyone but myself for my board scores or grades however. There are plenty of my classmates who rocked the USMLE as DO students- it is possible, you just have to have your head on straight. I certainly do not.

In summary, my lessons learned.

#1: Don't rush the process. Don't chase the dream so hard you refuse to recognize your own weaknesses which need correcting before embarking on this incredible journey; medical school.

#2: Don't worry about money unless you go into medical school. IMO it is completely indisputable that our education investment:return ratio is the lowest overall and I'm NOT just talking money

#3: If you find yourself saying "I'm a bad test taker" or "what I lack in intelligence I make up for in people skills" STOP! If you have high standards and expectations for yourself and your career this mode of thinking will dog you and lead you in all directions except the one you want (unless you want to be a broke FP).

#4: Study hard, very hard, harder than your hardest if you're like me and tend to struggle (see, still can't stop making excuses), your responsible for your own education and there is no hand-holding in this profession- only lawsuits when it comes to accountability.

#5: Take the USMLE if you desire more than the crap DO residencies out there (to be fair probably 80-90% are crap with the 10% exception). DO's are hardly discriminated against anywhere anymore however most PD's will tell you that in applicant fields of 1000's providing an orange when everyone has nice shiny apples doesn't help you.

#6: If you find yourself needing to setup more than 2 away elective "audition" rotations start asking questions about how real you are being with yourself and your chances.

#7: Relationships happen and certainly complicate situations. Your happiness is what should drive what you envision for your future- do not let others dictate that vision or get in the way of your goals. Support is a two-way street

#8: If you heart is set on MD school- hold out. Get 10 masters degree's if you have to. Don't live a regret.

EDIT: OMG- I almost forgot the most important lesson of all which I'll make 9 AND 10 because it something everyone everywhere should know from the start - TEST SCORES ARE ALL THAT MATTER - there are too many applications to programs whether it be medical school or residency and understandably they have to begin somewhere. Establish top notch scores by whatever means possible (except cheating of course).

I'm sure I'll think of more to say and edits will be frequent.

Good luck to the applicants this year, I hope you are all doing this for the right reason. The process is too long and too hard not to.

I can understand where you are coming from. After working my ass off in undergrad, easily maintaining a GPA in the top ten of my school with three majors and far too many activities, I thought the MCAT to be of no challenge. A history of not studying for the SATs and coming away with a 1180 also didn't help. I wanted to blame my school when I got a 22 back. It had to be their fault after all. However, I came to realize and I hope you do as well in time, that the fault lay only with me. I never put much of an effort into that test and that is my fault. No school will ever make you a better test taker. In the end, you are the one taking that test, not them. The answers chosen by you are yours, nobody elses. You had low tests scores from undergrad and they carried over into medical school. You could just as easily have blamed your undergrad for your low tests scores as your medical school. However, in cases where only one variable is held constant, we must put the blame there. You are the X variable my friend. I don't mean to sound like I am harping on you, I actually commend you for coming on here, admiting your scores and your failures. It takes true balls and your story reminds me alot of mine. You worked your ass off and you did your best; be proud of that. I know it is easy for me to say, sitting here with another year or so before I have to take that horrid test, but you are going to be a physician. Maybe you were never meant to go into that field you thought was your dream. The moral of my story: poor test taking skills are used as a crutch when the real fault lay with the test taker. I wish you the best of luck.
 
A good honest reflection by H0mersimps0n. Most I agree, others I can find myself disagreeing. But I think the most important message, esp for Pre-DOs, is "i'm a poor test-taker" is a very bad excuse for low MCAT scores. From time to time, I've seen that line of reasoning used here on the pre-DO forum and also as possible answers at interviews.

Medicine will forever be a series of tests - all standardized. While the MCAT doesn't really test concepts you encounter daily in the medical world, it is a standardized test under timed condition. In Medicine, the COMLEX, USMLE, Board Certification, and Board Re-Certification (every 7-10 years) are all standardize tests. During residency, you have to take in-service exams every year.

There are lots of anecdotal evidence of people (esp on SDN) who did poorly on the MCAT and extremely well on COMLEX/USMLE ... so it's possible. But if you have a history of doing poorly on standardize test (SAT, ACT, MCAT, GRE, etc), then a honest reflection on study methods and test taking skills prior to starting med school is an investment worth its weight in gold (and time)

Also, if you do have a history of doing well on standardize tests, don't get a false sense of security that your "skills" can save you for standardize tests ... as you progress deeper into the field, you will be graded with more and more people who tend to do well on standardized test.

Medical school is a humbling experience for everyone, from MD to DO, from Ivy League to Foreign Soil

H0mersimps0n, congrats on passing 2 steps of 2 grueling long exams, and for making it through 4 years of med school. I wish you well in your endeavors and with many luck.
 
I too am of the "I'm a bad test taker" crowd; in my case it's test anxiety that haunts me. However, I did realize that the board exams are the ONLY way to normalize and formally assess a medical students' worth (GPA doesn't mean much, in this game--except if you have to remediate/retake courses that you failed). For the 150 or so medical schools out there, each one is different, has different instructors, different curricular goals, different test-writing abilities, etc.. How else are residency programs supposed to factor in all of that into a nice round figure that says "This person is not a *****"??

The first MCAT experience was no joyride, but I tackled my anxieties head-on before I took the second one, and I had a good outcome. I brought some of that confidence with me to medical school, and here's what I've found:

--There are two ways to learn the curriculum; one is effective and the other will end up screwing you over:

METHOD A) Cram the week before exams. Get average-to-slightly-above-average scores. Retain about 1/3 of the information. Get to board-taking time and realize you're screwed. Start making little compromises for yourself, like, say, going into a specialty you hate.

METHOD B) First of all, forget all of that crap that people tell you about reading the material the night before and using lecture just as a backup/primer. What a load of crap. There's simply too much too fast. Keep up as well as you can by reading through all the material of the day, so that you're not behind. In this game, there's no such thing as being completely caught up and ahead. In short, DO NOT FALL BEHIND, EVEN ONE DAY. You'll spend the entire month trying to make up for it.
Do this, and you'll retain more, the information will mean more to you than just memorizing arteries, and you'll recall it faster on boards.

Am I an expert? Nooooooo. I've only been in school two and a half months. However, having spent a lot of it by doing METHOD A, I can tell you that METHOD B is far superior.

Also, start prepping for the boards NOW. It doesn't matter so much that you're only first year and know squat. Get familiar with board-style questions and try to frame your studying around that style. Find something clinical that ties together the virtually meaningless (and endless) stacks of information, and it will make your lives easier. Being able to put a name, age, and case information to something related to anatomical function will MAKE you remember the meaningless facts.
 
If I had my heart absolutely set on a highly competitive specialty, I would have tried hard to go MD. If you've been on SDN for a while, it's no big secret that it's harder to match into many competitive specialties as a DO.

In spite of this, anectdotally, I have noted that many of my peers, when asked about what specialties they are considering, reply "Orthopedic Surgery", "Opthamology" or "Derm". I have yet to hear someone answer "Family Practice". One way to avoid disappointment is to have realistic expectations. I feel for the OP, and I hope his/her words do make some people think twice before embarking on a long and expensive journey.
 
To the OP, I completely understand you and absolutely feel for what you are going through, but I dn't agree with the fact that you are moping to much (sorry had to be said) instead of looking ahead seeing what the future might hold for you. Stop concentrating on the negative side of things and start focusing on the possitive and possible possitve things that can happen to you, I urge you to keep your head up and go foward because by your negatively thinking you are going to move backwards insted of forward.....

I trully sympathize sincerly over your situation without a doubt though..
So stay true to your self and your profession that you have worked so hard for... :D
 
I think the OP's message was basically just be realistic and try to make honest self assessments before you move forward. Can't argue with that, at all!

And his/her story IS a little scarey to think about, for those who are hoping to go into more competitive areas of medicine later.
 
I think the OP's message was basically just be realistic and try to make honest self assessments before you move forward. Can't argue with that, at all!

And his/her story IS a little scarey to think about, for those who are hoping to go into more competitive areas of medicine later.

Ah, the bliss of actually WANTING to be a pediatrician :) Low stress by comparison, I'd say.

Although I have to admit that I wouldn't mind being a pediatric neurologist...:rolleyes:
 
To the OP, I completely understand you and absolutely feel for what you are going through, but I dn't agree with the fact that you are moping to much (sorry had to be said) instead of looking ahead seeing what the future might hold for you. Stop concentrating on the negative side of things and start focusing on the possitive and possible possitve things that can happen to you, I urge you to keep your head up and go foward because by your negatively thinking you are going to move backwards insted of forward.....

I trully sympathize sincerly over your situation without a doubt though..
So stay true to your self and your profession that you have worked so hard for... :D

Not to mention that it's just a little irritating that many would kill to be where you are right now. Most people in the population couldn't even if they wanted to. . . So what's the worst possible scenario!? You get the specialty you want at the institution that you don't necessarily find hte most desirable. BFD, after the necessary time period elapses you'll be the exact same physician. Don't get too wrapped up in BULL**** prestige.

In the words of Ben Harper:

"'cause Mr. when you're rattling on heaven's gate.
By then it is too late.
'cause Mr. when you get there,
They don't ask what you saved.
All they'll want to know Mr. is what you gave. "

:spam: mmmm....
 
Three things that we must keep in mind when we want to enter medical school. First, we should be extremely greatful we are given the opportunity to experience this much education. Most people in the world will not have this opportunity. Second, there are many many jobs we can find after we finish residency that will offer to pay for our medical education expenses, to pay off those loans. Third, one of the most important skills a doctor must have is to ROLL WITH THE PUNCHES. We have be able to show our patients how to deal with disease and to not give up. There are many residency opportunities out there. Maybe you don't get your first choice right away. If you want to do the more obscure residencies shouldn't you be expecting this and have a plan for when it doesn't happen? I mean I am not even in medical school yet and I know that if you really want a certain residency there are ways to definetly enter that residency if you just plan for all that might initially go wrong and keep at it. Bottom line don't be so rigid and you will have a better chance at avoiding ulcers and headaches. Oh ya, and get laid. (J/K) ;)
P.S. Thanks for bringing all these issues up Homersimpson, these things are on all premeds and MS's minds. :thumbup:
 
Ah, the bliss of actually WANTING to be a pediatrician :) Low stress by comparison, I'd say.

Although I have to admit that I wouldn't mind being a pediatric neurologist...:rolleyes:

I WISH I wanted to be a pediatrician! Heck, maybe after a few years, I even will. Seems every other kid going to med school wants to go into Ortho these days - even knowing there is a surplus of them out there & its a competitive and very long residency doesn't stop 'em. Ah well....
I'd like to know what the OP was aiming for & ultimately chose.
 
Im dont want to do anything too competitive. EM/IM for me, and I guess I would considered a good test taker so I hope a good EM spot is realistic.
 
Ah, the bliss of actually WANTING to be a pediatrician :) Low stress by comparison, I'd say.

Although I have to admit that I wouldn't mind being a pediatric neurologist...:rolleyes:

Haha right on. I want to go into family medicine, and I've gotta admit it's nice knowing I don't have to kill myself for the COMLEX/USMLE. Not that I'm planning on slacking :sleep: my way through med school :laugh: Just nice not to feel so pressured over certain aspects of playing the game :thumbup: Of course in exchange I deal for the rest of my life with other doctors who did stress over that stuff giving me crap for being a lowly FP :rolleyes: story of my life :)
 
I WISH I wanted to be a pediatrician! Heck, maybe after a few years, I even will. Seems every other kid going to med school wants to go into Ortho these days - even knowing there is a surplus of them out there & its a competitive and very long residency doesn't stop 'em. Ah well....
I'd like to know what the OP was aiming for & ultimately chose.

What surplus?

Every recruiter i talk to and every hospital out there are dying to hire an orthopod nowadays.

In fact, the opposite is true. There is a shortage.
 
What surplus?

Every recruiter i talk to and every hospital out there are dying to hire an orthopod nowadays.

In fact, the opposite is true. There is a shortage.

I have to agree 2easy. All the hospitals etc... in my area are beeging for ortho's.
 
Ah, the bliss of actually WANTING to be a pediatrician :) Low stress by comparison, I'd say.

Although I have to admit that I wouldn't mind being a pediatric neurologist...:rolleyes:

You can keep the kids, I think I will stick to something that better matches my personality of never sleeping and using sarcasim in pretty much every situation :D . Speaking of that, sorry about the other thread there 2easy, someone called me in as the closer and I just picked out two names without reading the rest of the thread.
 
What surplus?

Every recruiter i talk to and every hospital out there are dying to hire an orthopod nowadays.

In fact, the opposite is true. There is a shortage.

I have to agree 2easy. All the hospitals etc... in my area are beeging for ortho's.

Well, according to the AAMC Careers in Medicine on different specialties website that quotes this study there is NO shortage, that's for sure (maybe in your area...):

"Workforce and salary information
According to a study published in the March, 1998 issue of the Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery, "there is a surplus of orthopaedic surgeons today and that current training levels will create an even larger surplus in 2010."

For more information
American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons
American Board of Orthopaedic Surgery
American Orthopaedic Association
American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine
Source: The American Board of Medical Specialties, the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, Lee, Paul P., Jackson, Catherine A., Relles, Daniel A. "Demand-Based Assessment of Workforce Requirements for Orthopaedic Services" Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery 1998 80: 313-26 and the "2006 Physician Compensation Survey," Modern Healthcare. July 17, 2006. (Based on surveys conducted by American Medical Group Association; Cejka Search; Daniel Stern & Associates; Delta Physician Placement; Hay Group; Hospital & Healthcare Compensation Service; Jackson & Coker; Martin, Fletcher & Associates; MD Network; Medical Group Management Association; Medicus Partners; Merritt, Hawkins & Associates; Pcific Cos.; Pinnacle Helaht Group; and Sullivan, Cotter & Associates.)"
 
OK guys. Didn't we all have to take Health Organizational courses in undergrad? Here's the skinny:

The "Doctor Shortage" isn't of areas that are highly desirable (read: Suburbia of major cities). These places have SURPLUSES of doctors. Rural america and inner city communities and hospitals NEED doctors. Thus, this whole debate centers on location-based argument.
 
OK guys. Didn't we all have to take Health Organizational courses in undergrad? Here's the skinny:

The "Doctor Shortage" isn't of areas that are highly desirable (read: Suburbia of major cities). These places have SURPLUSES of doctors. Rural america and inner city communities and hospitals NEED doctors. Thus, this whole debate centers on location-based argument.

Well, I didn't have to take any classes like that! But anyway, that's why I made my first statement. Maybe where these guys live there IS some kind of shortage, but I don't know what area(s) the JBJS study was referring to - it is just referring to some overall surplus, from the sound of it.
 
As I sit here with COMLEX scores that tickle the mean, subpar USMLE scores and not a single interview invite for my dream residency I ponder where I went wrong.

I didn't want to come in here to dash anyone's dreams or tell you to avoid DO schools I just wanted to speak out loud as if I could give myself advice four years ago hoping someone in my situation thinks a little harder than I did.

While there are complex details I'll surely leave out (mostly personal/relationship related) here it my story:

I was a pro in high school and was accepted to a prestigious University in my hometown. I took extremely difficult science courses and setup a very aggressive four years of undergraduate work. My grandmother died and my girlfriend of 2 years dumped me at the same time as ORGO I started my sophomore year- as it was no surprise I could not keep up with University-setting ORGO I with the drama that was occurring and withdrew from the class. In the end I was able to retake and pass (barely) and finished up with a science GPA that was average (around 3.0 if I remember) and my overall around 3.2.

The MCAT killed me. I took the Kraplan course for the first go at it and got a 23 with great science scores and a verbal of 6. I retook, I raised my science scores and scored a 3 on verbal for a 22 the second time. Obviously no single MD school would consider me with those two scores. More forgiving DO schools (3) interviewed me and one actually accepted.

I managed to fight the inner struggle of being an MD-wannabe and always was the question about the quality of my education. I embraced osteopathic manipulation and took it very seriously compared to many of my classmates. I was a DO student and it was my medicine. Still I worried.

I passed anatomy (survived the weed-out) with a 78. Obtained mostly B's with as many C's as I did A's. My second year was mostly B's. By Jan-Feb of my second year I was already doing USMLE/COMLEX questions on a limited basis and reading from books. I knew early I wanted to be competitive with my MD colleagues, have great scores and vie for respectable residencies- prove to myself I hadn't received a crappy education. To move ahead I had written off and labeled myself as "a bad test taker" to rationalize my incompetency with the MCAT and undergrad performance.

I studied hard for the COMLEX step I and USMLE step I which is UNWISELY scheduled 8 days apart (which for someone like me was certainly idiot and death). I got a 182/75 on the USMLE and a 490/79 (the mean) on the COMLEX. Tears, anger, frustration as I'll never ever forget where I was when I opened that USMLE score report and my heart broke knowing I'd totally scrapped all chances of being taken seriously by good residency programs.

I picked myself up and convinced myself that my real strength was my people skills (seeing the trend?) and managed to do quite well my 3rd and 4th year. I studied twice as hard and infinitely smarter (thanks to my wife and HER school advisor's) and managed to pull my USMLE step 2 up to 210/85 and COMLEX up to 547/85. Still not achieving my goal but settling my mind a little bit about where I stand with MD students (remember my concern about quality of education).

So now to present time. I sit here having completely fooled myself into thinking I can beg, steal, claw my way into a residency using some back door despite my board scores. Unfortunately my passion lay within one of the top 5 most competitive residencies. I have not, and reality being told, will not be receiving any interviews for my specialty despite spending more than 20 weeks doing elective away rotations at 5 different programs. Devastating doesn't even describe it. This is the first time in my 20 year academic career that I FINALLY know what I want to spend the rest of my life doing and I have to deal with all the self-deception and failures of my past.

So what would I have done differently? Ahh beautiful hindsight...

In my personal opinion if any of the above sounds like you stop what you are doing, go find a beautiful field by yourself somewhere and reflect on your decision to go to medical school. My #1 reason to rush into anything that had the words "medical" and "school" in the name was student debt I didn't thinK I could handle if I turned down an acceptance to work and reapply.

Which brings me to my next point. IF you think you might have convinced yourself you might be a "bad test taker" go get a hobby and continue onto academia. I highly recommend getting an MPH or nearly any Masters degree. Get away from tests, learn to read, research, raise grades, study for MCATs properly, etc.

Osteopathic schools, sadly, are in it for the money 100%. I can't blame anyone but myself for my board scores or grades however. There are plenty of my classmates who rocked the USMLE as DO students- it is possible, you just have to have your head on straight. I certainly do not.

In summary, my lessons learned.

#1: Don't rush the process. Don't chase the dream so hard you refuse to recognize your own weaknesses which need correcting before embarking on this incredible journey; medical school.

#2: Don't worry about money unless you go into medical school. IMO it is completely indisputable that our education investment:return ratio is the lowest overall and I'm NOT just talking money

#3: If you find yourself saying "I'm a bad test taker" or "what I lack in intelligence I make up for in people skills" STOP! If you have high standards and expectations for yourself and your career this mode of thinking will dog you and lead you in all directions except the one you want (unless you want to be a broke FP).

#4: Study hard, very hard, harder than your hardest if you're like me and tend to struggle (see, still can't stop making excuses), your responsible for your own education and there is no hand-holding in this profession- only lawsuits when it comes to accountability.

#5: Take the USMLE if you desire more than the crap DO residencies out there (to be fair probably 80-90% are crap with the 10% exception). DO's are hardly discriminated against anywhere anymore however most PD's will tell you that in applicant fields of 1000's providing an orange when everyone has nice shiny apples doesn't help you.

#6: If you find yourself needing to setup more than 2 away elective "audition" rotations start asking questions about how real you are being with yourself and your chances.

#7: Relationships happen and certainly complicate situations. Your happiness is what should drive what you envision for your future- do not let others dictate that vision or get in the way of your goals. Support is a two-way street

#8: If you heart is set on MD school- hold out. Get 10 masters degree's if you have to. Don't live a regret.

EDIT: OMG- I almost forgot the most important lesson of all which I'll make 9 AND 10 because it something everyone everywhere should know from the start - TEST SCORES ARE ALL THAT MATTER - there are too many applications to programs whether it be medical school or residency and understandably they have to begin somewhere. Establish top notch scores by whatever means possible (except cheating of course).

I'm sure I'll think of more to say and edits will be frequent.

Good luck to the applicants this year, I hope you are all doing this for the right reason. The process is too long and too hard not to.










Dude, stop trying to rationalize the failures in your life...

Just let go and accept them...

The reality for you is weather you were an MD or DO you still very likely would not have matched in that "competive specialty"....

You appear to be very transparent..people can see that...

Sorry but we gotta be real about this..Just Let Go, Move on and try again..

Best of Luck!!!!
 
All I have to say about this thread is ...

:laugh:

Good luck.
 
I am a new comer here.

I am sorry to hear your situation, but somehow you will find a way to overcome your problems. After all, you have fought your way through to become a doctor.


P.S: Can anyone please tell me what a DO can't do that a MD can?

Write the letters M and D after his or her name. Thats about all.
 
Personally iam always juggling with my relationship issues, i know how mentally draining it is to go through break-up's or even disputes. Hey man you were honest about what you did wrong, but have some optimism...sometimes scores can only determine your test taking skillz, dont regret whatever residency you get into. It might open up doors to something big eventually, you have to learn to take the best out of the situation. If we all live in regret, we will never appreciate the good. Dont you think a lot of people wanna be in your shoes..accepted to medical school? No joke my friend...keep hope.
 
Now you're faced with something new
And I know it hurts and I know you feel torn
But you never gave up this easily before
So why do you choose today to give it all away
Well it's not so bad y'all
Together we all fall
Just as long we get up we'll stand tall
We shouldn't waste another day
Thinking 'bout the things that we forgot to say
I'm hittin' back y'all
Kickin' these four walls
Just as hard as I can til I can't crawl
I won't waste another day
With all these silly things
Swimmin' in my brain
There's no giving up now
Do you really want to give this all away
Can't you ever see things in a different way
Somedays
No giving up now
Such a beautiful thing to throw away
You should think things through
Over and over again
All over again
So your scars fade away
You soaked up the pain
A better person 'cause you lived through those days
And now you know what it's like to prove
You can overcome anything that gets to you
Well it's alright
We're sayin' our goodbyes
To the past and everything that ain't right
We won't waste another day
With all these silly things in our way
I know we have given
All that we can give
When there's nothing to lean on
Well, I remember this
All we make of this lifetime
Is always here within
And remembering that's why
We should never give in
There's no giving up now
----Crossfade-------
 
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