Nurse Salaries....

[Sparkles]

One of my friends told me that they are going into some sort of nursing program where they will do anestesia (Sp)... and that she will make BASE PAY $125,000 per year. Is this accurate? It sounds outragous to me. Can someone please tell me a little about nursing salaries and specialties?

[ckent]

That figure is accurate, CRNAs, or nurse anesthetists, basically do the same job that anesthesiologists do so they do make comparable salaries MD anesthesiologists. Some places just have MD anesthesiologists watching over several ORs at once while the nurse anesthetists watch over the individual patients. Other high paying nursing specialties include acute care nurse practioners, they can also command salaries above 100,000, and nurse practioners in private practices can make over 100,000 dollars too. The high paying nursing specialties are specialties where nurses have been trained in and have almost the same authority in managing patients as physicians. They all involve additional education beyond regular undergraduate nursing programs, but less additional education then physicians have to go through.

[mcwmark]

I doubt the base pay is that high at $125,000, but I'm sure overall compensation can reach that level. I know of a CRNA that has a $70,000 base salary, but with overtime makes above $100,000/year.

In California, they've got nurses working so much overtime, that many of them make twice their base salary! I saw one paycheck (she showed me): base salary $46,000. This paycheck for two weeks: $6500. Pretty good for an RN.

[ella]

I have looked at a few job listings and they indicated salaries ranging from $90,000 to
$125,000 and the hours were from 7:00am - 3:00pm. Not bad for a nurse!

What is the salary difference for an anesthesiologist?

That number is about right , but not right away. CRNAs, or nurse anesthetists and A.A.`s start at nearly 90k, but can quickly rise well above that. Make no mistake about it though, that is one hell of a difficult program to complete.

[Thebeyonder]

Hi,
Those six figure incomes for nurses are probably far from the norm. I believe the norm for a BSN is around 50-60K. Higher salaries can be probably attained through years of experience. Six figure incomes are probably at the far far end of the pay spectrum.
Tim.

[rn70]

TheBeyonder,Actually, those figures are right. CRNA's are Master's prepared nurses with a specialty in anesthesia. They usually receive a master's in nursing, biology, or anesthesia, depending which program they attend. They then have to pass the anesthesia certification board. The anesthesia program is very rigorous. CRNA's just graduating from school, start at a little over $100,000, not including bonuses or overtime. Some start as high as $140,000, depending on experience and part of the country.This salary is the norm. Go to Gasjobs.com to check it out. Anesthesiologists (MD) make from 150,000 to over 200,000. Certified Nurse Anesthetist is one of the highest paying nursing specialties.

[meandragonbrett]

Hey,
I know a CRNA that just graduated from anesthesia school and is starting monday making 140K. I'm planning on doing CRNA, but NOT FOR MONEY. DON"T SAY I"M DOING IT FOR MONEY. I hate it when people say that, they don't know why i'm doing it!! Anyway. The CRNA training is very intense and the classes are very very small only about 20-30 people a year. Also there's no way you can work and be an anesthesia student. You are either studying, in class, or at the hospital doing clinicals. At least that's the way it is here at the Anethesia school here in memphis. g2g
lata,
brett

[droliver]

I think around $100K is what some of the nurses I know who became CRNA's make on average.

As far as what anesthesiologists are making, serveral of the recent grads from here @ Louisville started in town for close to $250,000 (more if you do more open heart cases). This is a particularly good market for graduating trainees right now due to (I'm told) a shift away from CRNA's in some markets, with groups looking to hire additional partners. I was floored with a recent offer one of my friends got for $600,000 for a small/mid-sized regional medical center in eastern Kentucky!

[meandragonbrett]

I haven't heard anything about the shift from CRNA's at all. Well I do know that down here CRNA's are in HIGH demand over the MD counter parts. At the county hospital I worked at this summer there were (40 surgery suites) 45CRNA's and 4MD's to check that everything is going well. There's my .2 worth
brett

[Texas_Sam]

Yep,

Avg. starting annual salary for a Nurse Practitioner $115K. Pretty hard to believe that they are starting at salaries comparable to those of FP Doctors, but that's the hard pill that med students are having to swallow.
NP's that specialize in OB are starting at even higher salaries. I'm not sure but I believe that the number was $135K.

That's only half the coin though. NP's don't have to pay the outrageous prices for liability insurance that Dr's do. Furthermore, since they are presumed to lack the deep pockets that their supervising physician has, they are almost always over looked for litigious investigation.

Where am I getting my facts? I am a med student and we were just lectured on this topic in our Complimentary Med course. The lecturer is the director of med ed at one of the local NY hospitals. She's also an RN and DO.

Wow, Texas_Sam, are you certain NP`s earn that much in Texas? Not that I mind! Are you familiar with PA salaries in similar fields?

[Nurse2Doc]

Keep in mind that, while a CRNA is NOT a physician, he/she is coming to the table with a bachelors+ degree, a minimum 2 yrs critical care experience (that is the minimum written standard~not reality~Reality is most often 5+ yrs critical care experience), outstanding grades in the same courses premeds are required to take, all vieing for a minimal number of highly competitive training spots. The elite few who get accepted are at the top of their game. The physicians mentioned in above posts at the lower end of the salary spectrum are new grads, right out of med school/residency, with salary comensurate to maturity/experience.

[Mr. happy clown guy]

Yes, everyone, don't get ahead of yourself. There are tremendous differences between CNA training and physician training...and I have never met an Anesthesiologist that makes less than $200,000starting, and one I know was offered $300,000 out of residency. The first time a CNA gets sued for major bucks may make you step back and say, "maybe I don't want to do this". It will happen.

[CVPA]

OK, here we go again. Mr. Not-So-Happy Clown Guy venturing across the tracks into the Allied Health section to spout his "If your not a physician you aint ****" mantra.

[Nurse2Doc]

LOL CVPA! I picture Bozo more like the ICE CREAM MAN FROM HELL clown biker's get tattooed on their biceps, right below the skull & cross bones!.

[Mr. happy clown guy]

Hey CVPA, calm down. Wow, someone is defensive or insecure. All I was saying is before you leap, look!

I don't really have the time nor the patience to get into some silly shouting match.

[meandragonbrett]

To add to the nurse2doc comment:
A CRNA Also has their Master's degree in nursing anesthesia. That's the normal degree that you recieve in Anesthesia school.

And to mr. happy clown guy or w\e your name is. It's NOT CNA, it's CRNA. Those are two very different jobs w\a major difference in pay. A CNA is a Certified Nurses Assistant. NOT a Nurse Anethesist

[CVPA]

Happy Clown Guy:

Insecure? Nope. Defensive? Yeah, probably.

I am not looking to shout at anyone, believe me. I am just so tired of medical students coming to the Allied Health section and dogging mid-level practitioners. I'm just not the kind of guy who can sit idly by and watch people who think they know what they are talking about, spew garbage.....and I'm not necessarily referring to your last post, although it had some inaccuracies in it.

You make reference to the fact that there is a difference between the training of an anesthesiologist and a CRNA. Yes, we all know that, no need to reiterate the obvious. The reality, however, is that they often do the same job and if you think that there is a higher incidence of litigation against CRNAs as compared to anasthesiologists (which you made an off-hand reference to), you would be mistaken. I challenge you to provide this forum with proof to the contrary and if you can, I will be the first to say I was wrong. Fear of litigation is no reason to not choose a profession. All medical professionals are potential targets. CRNAs are no more a target than anyone else.

As far as salaries are concerned, your numbers are high. The average national salary for new anesthesiologists range between $120K and $160K/yr. Maybe in your specific area of the country they are paying more, but that is not c/w the national average. If you don't believe me, check out the link below and go to the First Year Salary Survey. I looked into anesthesia extensively before I applied to med school, believe me, your friend was indeed in the minority.

www.physicianssearch.com

[czarbill]

Hi, I am a CRNA, selfemployed. Most CRNAs employed by smaller hospitals make $140,000 to $170,000 a yr, not counting benefits. Working for larger hospitals pays much less, averaging maybe $115,000 with benefits. A locum, ie, a 'fill in guy' one can easily make $250,000, but you make your own benefits, but at that income it isn't hard. I make more than that yet, am work at littler hospitals where I am independent and work no holidays. This yr I had two weeks off for Christmas, I take two week off the end of August and take my CMEs in the Bahamas.
It is great.
Cheers,
Bill

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

Originally Posted by CVPA

As far as salaries are concerned, your numbers are high. The average national salary for new anesthesiologists range between $120K and $160K/yr. Maybe in your specific area of the country they are paying more, but that is not c/w the national average. If you don't believe me, check out the link below and go to the First Year Salary Survey. I looked into anesthesia extensively before I applied to med school, believe me, your friend was indeed in the minority.

www.physicianssearch.com

The website you linked to is either very very old, or just plain inaccurate. I lists average first year radiology to be 160k. That's about 2/3 to 1/2 of the actual number. Numerous other websites list average for first year anesthesia to be in 200-270 range. Here are two of them:

http://www.allied-physicians.com/sal...n-salaries.htm
http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensat...ion_survey.htm

Its great that you've chosen a field that you enjoy and that pays really well (if you are a CRNA). The only reason I write is that you talk about people posting innaccuracies, and I believe you were wrong on this point.

[Blue Dog]

Originally Posted by Whisker Barrel Cortex

The website you linked to is either very very old, or just plain inaccurate.

Considering that the thread that czarbill revived is five years old, I imagine it is.

[hunnybee24]

I know of a particular co-worker trying to get into nursing and pursuing CRNA JUST FOR THE MONEY! I hate that concept. She hates nurses as well. I don't think she will be a competent nurse and get into a CRNA program if she hates her own profession.

Why go into a field if you don't even like it?

[lloydchristmas]

Originally Posted by Texas_Sam

Yep,

Avg. starting annual salary for a Nurse Practitioner $115K. Pretty hard to believe that they are starting at salaries comparable to those of FP Doctors, but that's the hard pill that med students are having to swallow.
NP's that specialize in OB are starting at even higher salaries. I'm not sure but I believe that the number was $135K.

That's only half the coin though. NP's don't have to pay the outrageous prices for liability insurance that Dr's do. Furthermore, since they are presumed to lack the deep pockets that their supervising physician has, they are almost always over looked for litigious investigation.

Where am I getting my facts? I am a med student and we were just lectured on this topic in our Complimentary Med course. The lecturer is the director of med ed at one of the local NY hospitals. She's also an RN and DO.

The average NP salaries you quoted are what they should be, not what they actually are. The latest surveys are somewhere in the $80K/yr range, so you med students can take a breath for now. But, as NPs realize they are billing the same as the MDs, they will start to realize they should get payed better. Right not the reimbursement from medicare is 85% for NPs compared to physicians, yet our average salaries are around 50% what the average fam practice doc is getting. Some of us are practicing circles around our MD co-workers. Last week I saw 140 patients in the clinic, the MD that works literally right beside me saw 22. God help you NPs that don't pay attention to your numbers and don't go to administration for a raise. You're hurting the whole profession when you're oblivious to your monetary value. Right now, it's hard to get them to listen even when you have cold hard facts and figures. But, if more of us thought the same way, they'd have to listen. Since it's not that way now, the only logical choice is to have your own clinic as a NP and bill for your own services, which is exactly what I am preparing to do. Problem with that is you have to have some experience since the training sucks so bad.

[zenman]

Originally Posted by lloydchristmas

. Problem with that is you have to have some experience since the training sucks so bad.

What program did you go to that sucked so bad?

[lloydchristmas]

Originally Posted by zenman

What program did you go to that sucked so bad?

UMKC. I had to write a paper on the history of enchiladas. I complained about it in a professional matter to the dean and almost got kicked out. That's no joke. Mind you no one ever took the time to show how to interpret Xrays or EKGs. And no, you don't know how to do that as a RN. Yes, we RNs are taught to recognize abnormals and certain rhythms but to read an EKG is to be able to reconstruct the heart based on those vectors.

[emedpa]

"Problem with that is you have to have some experience since the training sucks so bad."

you could always go back to pa school to fill in the deficits in your prior education
the program at stanford is really short and is dual pa/np so you might even get credit for a few classes.....
(note to those without a sense of humor: THIS IS A JOKE)

[lloydchristmas]

Originally Posted by emedpa

"Problem with that is you have to have some experience since the training sucks so bad."

you could always go back to pa school to fill in the deficits in your prior education
the program at stanford is really short and is dual pa/np so you might even get credit for a few classes.....
(note to those without a sense of humor: THIS IS A JOKE)

Yes, it is a good joke. But so was my graduate education. But I think this realization puts me ahead of the game, as the feeling of needing to catch up constantly forces me to read every piece of medical literature I come across. It's paid off quite nicely for some of my patients too (that had been to several other doctors with no success).

[megsMS]

Do you have to go back to school and take more classes before you apply to CRNA school? Is a B.S.N. not sufficient? At my undergraduate university, the courses required for the B.S.N. were very different from those required to get into medical school. They are more "watered-down", as evidenced by the fact that I had several friends in nursing school who were taking their regular chemistry and organic at the same time b/c they were so easy you didn't even need a prereq for the organic. They were very different from the chemistry and organic chemistry that premeds and biology/chemistry majors took.

Originally Posted by Nurse2Doc

Keep in mind that, while a CRNA is NOT a physician, he/she is coming to the table with a bachelors+ degree, a minimum 2 yrs critical care experience (that is the minimum written standard~not reality~Reality is most often 5+ yrs critical care experience), outstanding grades in the same courses premeds are required to take, all vieing for a minimal number of highly competitive training spots. The elite few who get accepted are at the top of their game. The physicians mentioned in above posts at the lower end of the salary spectrum are new grads, right out of med school/residency, with salary comensurate to maturity/experience.

[peduncle]

anesthesiologists make on average around 250,000 to 300,000. I think someone asked this question before..

[emedpa]

Originally Posted by megsMS

Do you have to go back to school and take more classes before you apply to CRNA school? Is a B.S.N. not sufficient? At my undergraduate university, the courses required for the B.S.N. were very different from those required to get into medical school. They are more "watered-down", as evidenced by the fact that I had several friends in nursing school who were taking their regular chemistry and organic at the same time b/c they were so easy you didn't even need a prereq for the organic. They were very different from the chemistry and organic chemistry that premeds and biology/chemistry majors took.

to get into a crna program you need icu nurse experience after you get the bsn.

[core0]

Originally Posted by emedpa

to get into a crna program you need icu nurse experience after you get the bsn.

Actually you need critical care experience. ER experience counts also.

David Carpenter, PA-C

[rn29306]

Originally Posted by core0

Actually you need critical care experience. ER experience counts also.

David Carpenter, PA-C

And that would be, as usual, wrong as a blanket statement.

The AANA specifically uses the wording "at least one year experience as a registered nurse in an acute care setting".

http://aana.com/aboutaana.aspx?ucNav...enuID=6&id=265

And they leave the ultimate decision of what constitutes "acute care" up to the individual school. Almost universally, any form of ICU is accepted and preferred, such as MICU, SICU, NeuroICU, and TICU. Burn units are generally accepted as well. Some schools allow Neonatal ICU, PACU, and ED experience and some don't. A minority of schools will allow flight experience, but I do know one very accomplished CRFN that was told to go back to ICU and he did end up getting into another program.

[sistermike]

Originally Posted by core0

Actually you need critical care experience. ER experience counts also.

David Carpenter, PA-C

ER experience does not count at most schools.

[dqbanrn]

most schools are looking for the "acute care" experience to consist of experience with various medication drips and titration, experience reading ekg, hemodynamic monitoring and a thorough understanding of blood gasses(fluids and electrolytes in general). If an applicant can demonstrate they understand these aspects of patient care they will typically satisfy the schools experience requirements.

[Slayton]

Is there any way you can go from a BS in Biology to a CRNA without going back to school for 4 more years to be an RN

[emedpa]

Originally Posted by Slayton

Is there any way you can go from a BS in Biology to a CRNA without going back to school for 4 more years to be an RN

you can go to an AA (anesthetist assistant) program and learn the same skills in 2 years, have the same scope of practice and make the same money.these programs are geared to non-nurse folks with a science background.
also if you have a bs in anything you can get an rn,bsn in 1 yr via several direct entry second degree programs.

[RAMPA]

Originally Posted by dqbanrn

most schools are looking for the "acute care" experience to consist of experience with various medication drips and titration, experience reading ekg, hemodynamic monitoring and a thorough understanding of blood gasses(fluids and electrolytes in general). If an applicant can demonstrate they understand these aspects of patient care they will typically satisfy the schools experience requirements.

too bad they dont take RTs...

but AA programs do

[dqbanrn]

Originally Posted by RAMPA

too bad they dont take RTs...

but AA programs do

AA programs are a great alternative for non rn healthcare who want to study anesthesia. Aside from an RN license, AA schools have similar criteria for admission. The only thing i dont like about the AA option is the limited number of states allowing them to practice. this is not an issue so long as you intend to stay in a state that accepts the AA title otherwise, waiting on government legislation can be like watching grass grow.

[emedpa]

Originally Posted by dqbanrn

AA programs are a great alternative for non rn healthcare who want to study anesthesia. Aside from an RN license, AA schools have similar criteria for admission. The only thing i dont like about the AA option is the limited number of states allowing them to practice. this is not an issue so long as you intend to stay in a state that accepts the AA title otherwise, waiting on government legislation can be like watching grass grow.

agree. I believe 15 states currently allow AA practice with more added every year.
groups that hire both crna and aa use them interchangeably at the same rate of pay and with the same responsibilities.

[markneil]

Originally Posted by lauraella

I have looked at a few job listings and they indicated salaries ranging from $90,000 to
$125,000 and the hours were from 7:00am - 3:00pm. Not bad for a nurse!

What is the salary difference for an anesthesiologist?

anesthesiologists can make from 250,000 - 900,000 a year depending on location.

[eutopia CRNA]

Guess what? CRNA's do make a lot of money. As a CRNA I can tell you that SEVERAL years ago my base pay in Fort Worth was $115,000. Now it is over $150,000 for working with a large group of MD's and other CRNA's in a large trauma hospital. My salary is actually kinda low for the area & I am looking at options. Many of the hospitals in this area offer up to $190,000 for experienced CRNA's. I spoke with a recruiter this week about a job in Georgia that pays between $200,000 & $300,000 depending on experience. I know it's hard to belive, but CRNA's are far removed from RN's. THe job we do is very intense, and the training is brutal. My pathophys prof. also taught the course at the local med school. He said our curriculum was nearly the same level of difficulty. I averaged about 40 hours a week outside of class just studying! And it's nearly 3 years of training, not 2 as most people believe. Now I am preparing the enter the doctorate CRNA program, so yes, my title will be Dr. Nurse.

[emedpa]

a friend of mine found a really slick way to cash in.
icu nurse became np. worked as an np for 10 yrs in acute care settings( er/icu). went to crna school.
now works for a multisite anesthesiology group covering the o.r., icu, and pain clinic. his np license is still active so he has full script rights and can work in or out of the o.r.
he makes REALLY good money for a 40 hr week with minimum call responsibilities.
I know a few AA/PA folks who have similar gigs.
not a bad deal either way for less than 8 yrs total schooling.

[megboo]

Originally Posted by emedpa

you can go to an AA (anesthetist assistant) program and learn the same skills in 2 years, have the same scope of practice and make the same money.these programs are geared to non-nurse folks with a science background.
also if you have a bs in anything you can get an rn,bsn in 1 yr via several direct entry second degree programs.

THe only problem with that is only a handful of states acknowledge AAs (right now).

[Bandit]

I would like to toss in my opinion on something here. (as if anyone wants it!!)

I have never been a huge supporter of the NP profession. But there are 2 areas that demand exception;

1 the crna
2 the ccnp

Both are in a catagory wwwaaayyyy above and beyond the anp. Although even both of those are extremely limited to their fields--they are much stronger. As purelyu speculation I would assume it is because of the much much much tougher addmissions process to these studies and to the "type" of ambitious mind it trakes to accept such challenges.

I have seen way to many anp/fnp types struggle dearly as RNs and think the way up is the same as a way out. 18 months later they think they are better than the nurses that covered their ass and mistakes for so long. another mistake

[emedpa]

Originally Posted by megboo

THe only problem with that is only a handful of states acknowledge AAs (right now).

13 or so at this point, mostly southern states. more added every yr as new schools come on line.
I agree the geographical range is a limiting factor right now. if you want to live in one of those states, great.
10-15 yrs from now I think they will practice in a majority of states. anesthesiologists(md's) like the idea of AA'a bacause they are not independent providers of anesthesia services(competition) so many groups are electing to use these folks in place of crna's where that is an option.

[sunnyjohn]

Originally Posted by emedpa

1....10-15 yrs from now I think they will practice in a majority of states...

Agree

[dgswan]

Originally Posted by Bandit

I would like to toss in my opinion on something here. (as if anyone wants it!!)

I have never been a huge supporter of the NP profession. But there are 2 areas that demand exception;

1 the crna
2 the ccnp

Both are in a catagory wwwaaayyyy above and beyond the anp. Although even both of those are extremely limited to their fields--they are much stronger. As purelyu speculation I would assume it is because of the much much much tougher addmissions process to these studies and to the "type" of ambitious mind it trakes to accept such challenges.

I have seen way to many anp/fnp types struggle dearly as RNs and think the way up is the same as a way out. 18 months later they think they are better than the nurses that covered their ass and mistakes for so long. another mistake

I have seen the very same scenario with two CRNAs that went to med school and then anesthesiology residency.....very poor CRNAS, then really lorded it over those same CRNAs that saved their asses several times before they moved on.....it would have been a joke, had it not been so sad.

[Josh L.Ac.]

Originally Posted by lloydchristmas

UMKC. I had to write a paper on the history of enchiladas. I complained about it in a professional matter to the dean and almost got kicked out. That's no joke. Mind you no one ever took the time to show how to interpret Xrays or EKGs. And no, you don't know how to do that as a RN. Yes, we RNs are taught to recognize abnormals and certain rhythms but to read an EKG is to be able to reconstruct the heart based on those vectors.

Seriously? I heard that UMKC has the best program in the KC area - better than KU and Research (where I'm at in the accelerated BSN program).



Sigh.

[lloydchristmas]

Originally Posted by Josh L.Ac.

Seriously? I heard that UMKC has the best program in the KC area - better than KU and Research (where I'm at in the accelerated BSN program).



Sigh.

If it's the best, then they all are rediculous. Bottom line: if you want to learn medicine, you have to PA or MD/DO. NP will NOT teach you as much medicine even though you're expected to practice it just the same when you're out.