starting salaries for this years grads

I don't think many people are going to tell the world their salaries. I know I certainly wouldn't. You may get some working conditions and benefits information, but I doubt anything much more specific than that. Besides, salary is region and hospital specific, so it will vary. Look at the averages that have been posted on several other threads and just figure some people get more, some get less.

Maybe try an anonymous poll and hope for the best.

BirdmanRA said:

I don't think many people are going to tell the world their salaries. I know I certainly wouldn't. You may get some working conditions and benefits information, but I doubt anything much more specific than that. Besides, salary is region and hospital specific, so it will vary. Look at the averages that have been posted on several other threads and just figure some people get more, some get less.

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Erm, well, isn't this forum already anonymous anyway???

4 people I know, although these salaries are without consideration of benefits.

Academic job in the southeast: 160K
Academic job in the northeast: 145K
Community job midwest: 220K
Community job Midatlantic coast: 245K

bulgethetwine said:

Erm, well, isn't this forum already anonymous anyway???

4 people I know, although these salaries are without consideration of benefits.

Academic job in the southeast: 160K
Academic job in the northeast: 145K
Community job midwest: 220K
Community job Midatlantic coast: 245K

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Thanks you for the real reply and for giving both academic and private experiences. It is nice to kinda have an idea of whats ahead. But as always if anyone here is looking for money you shoulda gone rads

Becoming (being) a physician is such a weird job. First, you have to pay someone else many thousands of dollars per year for at least eight years. Then, you work long, stressful hours for a relatively low income that is absolutely non-negotiable. Even if you work twice as hard as your fellow residents, bill more, and have more successful outcomes, you can't ask for a raise. Also while you're working those long hours in residency, you can't take a sick day unless you're near death, and even then you may be expected to come in. You're shunned if you quit your job or switch to a different specialty.

Then, once it comes time to be an attending and make a real salary, guess what-- the actual salary is a big secret!! It's very difficult to find salary surveys that physicians say are accurate, and no one will tell you their salary because it's "private." For all I know, an attending's salary is $19,000 per year. I'm hoping that the big secret is that we'll all make millions per year.

So Cal a little bit inland: rvu based, averaging 160-180/hr. plus crumby benefits (medical and 2000 for CME).

Salaries vary widely, depending on region.

In Los Angeles, the going rate was about $120 per hour to work at Kaiser. Some gigs like CEP paid up to $160 per hour at some hospitals.

One of our grads is going to work in Fresno for $200 per hour.

I just started in Texas, which has an enormous salary range. The average is about $175 per hour here, unless you're in Houston or Dallas where it's a bit less. I've heard of salaries up to $300 per hour for under-served areas desperate for EM docs.

NKMU said:

Becoming (being) a physician is such a weird job. First, you have to pay someone else many thousands of dollars per year for at least eight years. Then, you work long, stressful hours for a relatively low income that is absolutely non-negotiable. Even if you work twice as hard as your fellow residents, bill more, and have more successful outcomes, you can't ask for a raise. Also while you're working those long hours in residency, you can't take a sick day unless you're near death, and even then you may be expected to come in. You're shunned if you quit your job or switch to a different specialty.

Then, once it comes time to be an attending and make a real salary, guess what-- the actual salary is a big secret!! It's very difficult to find salary surveys that physicians say are accurate, and no one will tell you their salary because it's "private." For all I know, an attending's salary is $19,000 per year. I'm hoping that the big secret is that we'll all make millions per year.

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Good points. By the time we finish we may be better off staying residents! You could always do the emergency pediatric interventional endovascular surgical neuroradiology fellowship and specialize in CV4.

BTW, I personally think it's a bad idea to post salaries on a public (very public) forum.

NKMU said:

Then, once it comes time to be an attending and make a real salary, guess what-- the actual salary is a big secret!! It's very difficult to find salary surveys that physicians say are accurate, and no one will tell you their salary because it's "private." For all I know, an attending's salary is $19,000 per year. I'm hoping that the big secret is that we'll all make millions per year.

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Bide your time and you'll be let in on the "secret". When I interviewed, I was asked to keep it private by the interviewers.

I just got the biggest paycheck I've ever seen - don't worry. If you ARE worrying, maybe you need some perspective. Do you think every doc you see is working pro bono?

Dakota said:

If you spend enough time on the pre-allo and allo boards you might begin to believe that soon every physician will be required to take a vow of poverty and only accept free meals in the soup kitchen as compensation.

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...and then, only if the soup kitchen has NEVER EVER taken a donation from anyone or anything that has ever breathed the same air as someone that knows about any drug companies or vendors.

Apollyon said:

...and then, only if the soup kitchen has NEVER EVER taken a donation from anyone or anything that has ever breathed the same air as someone that knows about any drug companies or vendors.

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LOL! That is great! I'm graduating in 2 months and facing $260,000 in student loans. At this point an attending's salary is such an abstract concept I think I would have a Code Brown if someone offered me $120/hour to work at Kaiser!

There are sooooo many more things to look at in a job other than salary. EM offers a tremendous lifestyle, and the tradeoffs for a "lower" salary can be rewarding. $150/hr working 12 hour shifts and 50% night shifts is a lot worse than, say $130/hr without ever working nights and 10 hour shifts. Benefits and profit sharing are never reported in hourly salaries and nearly every group offers either a performance-based or other type of bonus/profit sharing system.

As others in this thread have said - don't worry about the actual dollar amount you will earn - you can't put a price on longevity and happiness - both of which are easy to attain in EM, regardless of your debt or financial obligations...

I'm only a first year, but one of the big groups back home in Texas has a website that flaunts their average salary for their EM docs...>308K a year. I know 2 guys there who are in their 2nd year and both are already shareholders and made over 275K their first year.

Another tip... if your hospital is university based, and the university is state affiliated, then the salaries are available somewhere. Where I am, you can find the following salaries if you look people up by last name:

Football coach....3.8 million
Basketball Coach 968K
Hospital CEO.......450K
Highest pain NSG 454K
EM Chair.. 320K
Highest paid EM doc after that 226K
Average EM doc.. 205K
Lowest I could find 165K

Peruse the web and you will find lots of cool stuff. It's all freedom of information act stuff if it's not a private institution.

corpsmanUP said:

EM Chair.. 320K
Highest paid EM doc after that 226K

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Wow. Almost a hundred grand difference. I'm just guessing he doesn't see a lot of patients, either. I'm sure he's bringing alot to the department, that's just sort of a eye-opening difference.

Take care,
Jeff

The AAMC does surveys on academic salaries by specialty by region, academic rank, and administrative position. I'll dig it up and post it.
$145,000 as an academic starting salary in the NE is much lower than what I am aware of in either Boston or NYC.

Jeff698 said:

Wow. Almost a hundred grand difference. I'm just guessing he doesn't see a lot of patients, either. I'm sure he's bringing alot to the department, that's just sort of a eye-opening difference.

Take care,
Jeff

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It's not about seeing patients if you're department chair, in fact many don't work in the E.D. at all. They spend an enormous number of hours in meetings, conferences, and doing paperwork. They probably put in more hours than the average "pit doctor" and thus probably deserve the 100K extra.

There are so many variables to consider.

I have a friend in the DC area who is making about 250K with good ben.

Friend in Texas making about 270K with ben.

Another friend in texas making abotu 240 K but has to carry thier own malpractice.

Friends in the east coast making about 200K in non academic
and about 170K academic.

Vegas about 230K, I believe

I don't have a 'real' job yet. Next year, I'll let you know

A guy I know fresh out of residency is taking a job with a large HMO in NoCal, starting out at about 220/yr with full benefits and a pension. However, this is based on a 40hr work week.

I have a "friend" in NoCal that is making close to 500/yr in a nice little FFS community job, no benefits of course. Based on 13-14 8 hr shifts/mo. Rare job find indeed.

Of course with the cost of living in NoCal, this is like working at slightly better than Burger King rates in the midwest....

One of my buddies started a couple of years ago in a large academic program in beantown for about 180/yr.

After spending the last two years in L.A., I could never figure out how any E.D. physicians could afford to live comfortably on 180-200K. When you consider that a tiny house anywhere in L.A. county costs 800K-1 Mill, I'm not sure how they have enough money for gas, kids, food, etc.

Jeff698 said:

Wow. Almost a hundred grand difference. I'm just guessing he doesn't see a lot of patients, either. I'm sure he's bringing alot to the department, that's just sort of a eye-opening difference.

Take care,
Jeff

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I think the situation here with my chair is unique. My chair actually does work probably 4 shifts a month or more at times. He is one of the "Lean Sigma" gurus in the country and he has taken his knowledge of healthcare business to the next level. He started our program from scratch 4 years ago and took our department to the second highest grossing department in the hospital in that time. He also brings in several million in grants with his research. He's part of that negative pressure device studying CPR outcomes and he has 2 full time perfusionists who put pigs on bypass for him all the time. He has a full bench lab and will comment routinely, "Well, I am off to do CPR on some mice". Plus he is about 6 foot 5 and 290 pounds! I think he also gets some big incentives based on our ED productivity, and rightly so. What he does makes the hospital money, and makes our lives easier in the meantime. For an academic ED, we have a rather cush and scut-free system. There are flaws, but it is a great place to work. And we are opening our new state of the art ED in less than 7 months. Just watch, our program will really start to get more recognition in the coming years because of this guy, and because of the great people he hires.

substanceP said:

LOL! That is great! I'm graduating in 2 months and facing $260,000 in student loans. At this point an attending's salary is such an abstract concept I think I would have a Code Brown if someone offered me $120/hour to work at Kaiser!

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I'm with you on that, even with my debt being about 100k lower. What I'll be making during residency is just a little less than what my parents make combined annually, so maybe that will add a little perspective too.

Even if it was $100/hour, I'd crap my pants!

Haemer Head, good to know an academic job in Boston or NYC pays a little more than 145k per year since this may be something I'd look into in a few years. I thought that number was a little on the low side too, from what I heard.

GeneralVeers said:

After spending the last two years in L.A., I could never figure out how any E.D. physicians could afford to live comfortably on 180-200K. When you consider that a tiny house anywhere in L.A. county costs 800K-1 Mill, I'm not sure how they have enough money for gas, kids, food, etc.

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That's one reason California actually has a net loss of people from emmigration/immigration. There are actually more Americans (legal ones) leaving CA than moving there. Interesting little tidbit that not many people realize. All population gains come from foreign immigrants and birth rates.

What's amazing is that anyone can manage to live in California with any quality of life whatsoever. 180-200K/year will be in the top 5% of Los Angeles wage earners, so if it's hard for ED docs then you can just imagine the difficulty for the average Californian.

if you join a group, how long typically before you make partner? also, how does your hourly salary change after you make partner? i'm guessing there's some sort of profit sharing, right?

maybe i should have asked these questions on the interview trail instead of, "who runs trauma?"

NKMU said:

Then, once it comes time to be an attending and make a real salary, guess what-- the actual salary is a big secret!! It's very difficult to find salary surveys that physicians say are accurate, and no one will tell you their salary because it's "private." For all I know, an attending's salary is $19,000 per year. I'm hoping that the big secret is that we'll all make millions per year.

Click to expand...

I was once reading an article about American culture in a foreign paper. The author made a very interesting and true point - Americans have no problem going on national television and baring their dirtiest, darkest secrets of their sexual lives but if you ask them their salary all of a sudden the get angry and hush up.

Jejton said:

I was once reading an article about American culture in a foreign paper. The author made a very interesting and true point - Americans have no problem going on national television and baring their dirtiest, darkest secrets of their sexual lives but if you ask them their salary all of a sudden the get angry and hush up.

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No one will ask to borrow your heat activated, peach tasting lube or your ultra, mega bunny 3000.......or that you like to be spanked and called McFatty but if they hear you make X and X is more than them prepare for problems.....especially with family.

Military emergency physicians without prior service (and who aren't moonlighting) make about $115K straight out of residency. There are a few additional tax benefits.