carboxylic acid/ester with LiAlH4 give weird product??

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tRNA

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when you reduce carboxylic acid with LiAlH4 it should give you primary alcohol, likewise when you reduce ester with LiAlH4 it should give you two primary alcohols (according to kaplan, text, and all sources) ,

i don't understand why in this reaction reducing the carboxylic acid side gives a giminal diol ?? and reducing the ester side doesn't break up giving the usual two primary alcohols??? please explain to me

may be the ether has an effect but i searched everywhere and couldn't find ether reacting with alcohol to give such products, so iam confused
(btw this is from kaplan practice test)

plz help thanks

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I always thought of reducing as adding to two H's further reduction would an remove an O atom which is just the opposite of oxidation which removes to H's and further oxidation adds an O atom. It seems like in the diagram since your only doing one reduction you add the two H's which it seems like they did for the top ester and bottom acid.

Edit: Never mind it doesn't make sense to me because I thought the acid on on the bottom should turn into an aldehyde because doesn't oxidation of a carboxylic acid go like this: carboxylic acid (RCOOH)--1st reduction--> aldehyde (RCHO)--2nd reduction--> primary alcohol (RCH2OH)
 
yes, you're right about the adahyde part so you should still get primary alcohol and the mechanism of reduction with LiAlH4/ether, acid as my text indicates is as follows:

the nucleophilic hydride ion (H:) adds to the electrophilic carbonyl carbon producing an alkoxide ion which is protonated by the acid to yield the primary alcohols. I thought may be the lack of the acid in the final step in this reaction has something to do with the production of the geminal diol and that other strange product from ester, but i am not sure how,

pleeeeeeez anyone if you know anything about how you could produce such products or the mechanisms leading to them let me know, cuz i have searched everywhere and there isn't a trace of evidence leading to such wierd products :(
 
Pay attention to the C=C double bond, it creates resonances and making the O at carbonyl to protonated rather than to reform back carbonyl and kick OH or OCH3 away.
 
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Pay attention to the C=C double bond, it creates resonances and making the O at carbonyl to protonated rather than to reform back carbonyl and kick OH or OCH3 away.

ok so this what i've understood from you,
the resonance stabilizes the alkoxide anions (created after the first protonation) thus making them less basic since the charge is now more spread out, so this makes it easier for the rest of the hydride ions to attack these negative alkoxide oxygens and produce that product instead of the usual products, is that what you mean??
 
tRNA,

You can explain way better than me :). yeah, that is basically why you see an unusual product. Don't you agree?
 
Thanks TechDoc without your direction i would have been stuck on that one forever
 
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