Anesthesia for Cosmetic Surgery

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

BLADEMDA

Full Member
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
22,315
Reaction score
8,963
Here is a new thread for our friend to post his technique and blast those that disagree with him.

My experience includes several thousand outpatient plastic surgery cases both at the hospital, an outpatient center and the office. I have personally worked with more than 4 plastic surgeons over my career. The average income for each surgeon was greater than $1 million take home and the big volume dude was taking home more than $2 million per year. My point is these guys knew how to run a practice and understand patient satisfaction.

Most people believe the 'best' plastic surgeons are in Southern California. Not true. Each of these Board Certified Plastic Surgeons who trained throughout the USA and did not work with each other felt the best in each specific area like Breast, Nose, Face, etc. were in different areas of the country.

That said, the MOST MONEY to be made is probably Hollywood area where a busy plastic surgeon can earn in excess of $4 million per year take home.


This thread is about MIA, MAC, TIVA, etc. for the plastic surgery patient or your VIP (CEO of the hospital, etc.) having outpatient or office surgery.

Blade

Members don't see this ad.
 
Contrary to what our senior friend may believe I have used his technique in varying degrees over the past ten years in search of the 'perfect' cocktail.
It does not exist. However, Aghast's formula and basic ideas have merit.

For example, using BIS and or EMG to titrate the I.V. anesthetic is a prudent concept. This keeps the elderly and less healthy patient from getting too much propofol, etc. which may have untoward consequences on BP, etc. in addition to saving money (propofol is about $9-$10 per 20 ml vial).

I have used ketafol many times on breast augmentation and mini-face-lifts along with other outpatient procedures. I have done the case on room air and with an LMA. Although the LMA requires slightly more ketafol I can keep the patient a little deeper (BIS around 50-55). With the surgeons permission I have given Clonidine preoperatively to these same patients. But, I had a few facelift patients develop severe hypotension preoperatively which continued well into the post-operative period. The surgeon liked the BP of 80 for the facelift but I was concerned about the 80 year old's coronary's- not to mention mine.

The average age of a facelift patient in my area is the late 60's with many in the 70's and 80's. In addition, many men now are getting facelifts and these guys are not young or always healthy. Clonidine can be a two edged sword and once you feel the "blade" of that sword you will think twice about its 'routine' use in this group.

I limit my total Ketamine dose to 100 mg for outpatient surgery. There is some theoretical concern of apoptosis of the brain with ketamine. Many of my plastic surgery patients are very wealthy retirees who need their remaining brain cells.

Thoughts? Comments?
 
Ketamine is a great drug, in relatively small doses as you mention. Problem is it screws up the BIS. There is a wealth of papers out there on the effects. Essentially it renders the monitor more or less useless depedning on dose. EMG would work on the BIS, or any monitor that monitors facial nerve twitches. Interestingly, when the BIS was first developed it was little more than a nerve monitor on the face and not a bispectral index at all. Little muscle twitches cause EMG to rise = number rise. Of course the EMG component has been downgraded in later software updates, but one only needs to do a complete awake paralysis to find out the EMG component of BIS. This used to make the number go to 20 or so. I haven't tried it with the newer software. Volunteers?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Here is a new thread for our friend to post his technique and blast those that disagree with him.

My experience includes several thousand outpatient plastic surgery cases both at the hospital, an outpatient center and the office. I have personally worked with more than 4 plastic surgeons over my career. The average income for each surgeon was greater than $1 million take home and the big volume dude was taking home more than $2 million per year. My point is these guys knew how to run a practice and understand patient satisfaction.

Most people believe the 'best' plastic surgeons are in Southern California. Not true. Each of these Board Certified Plastic Surgeons who trained throughout the USA and did not work with each other felt the best in each specific area like Breast, Nose, Face, etc. were in different areas of the country.

That said, the MOST MONEY to be made is probably Hollywood area where a busy plastic surgeon can earn in excess of $4 million per year take home.


This thread is about MIA, MAC, TIVA, etc. for the plastic surgery patient or your VIP (CEO of the hospital, etc.) having outpatient or office surgery.

Blade

"...blast those that disagree with him"

I am sorry you feel that way.

The root of the word 'educate' I believe means 'to draw out' not as in a challenge of pistols at 20 paces at dawn, but more as an attempt to shine the light on the darkness of ignorance, misinformation and misconception.

"I have personally worked with more than 4 plastic surgeons over my career. "

Interesting statistic.

I have successfully provided PK MAC or MIA (BIS monitored PK MAC) for over 100 different surgeons in my 15 year career as a super-specialist (not that I am 'super' but that I only provide anesthesia for elective cosmetic surgery).

As far as the $$$s a plastic/cosmetic surgeon can earn, good for him/her.
The overhead they shoulder would sicken you. To say nothing of having to deal with the patients pre & postoperatively.

"Most people believe the 'best' plastic surgeons are in Southern California."

Not sure where you got this notion or who 'most' people are.
I am certain that the Sherrell Aston's (NYC) and Rod Rohrich's (Dallas) of the world would dispute that notion fiercely.

Many I have worked with are only 'legends in their own mind.'

Best regards,

aghast1
 
hey aghast,

Your book is reviewed in this months A+A. It went so so... but better than not having a book at all, like the rest of us.
 
Contrary to what our senior friend may believe I have used his technique in varying degrees over the past ten years in search of the 'perfect' cocktail.
It does not exist. However, Aghast's formula and basic ideas have merit.

For example, using BIS and or EMG to titrate the I.V. anesthetic is a prudent concept. This keeps the elderly and less healthy patient from getting too much propofol, etc. which may have untoward consequences on BP, etc. in addition to saving money (propofol is about $9-$10 per 20 ml vial).

I have used ketafol many times on breast augmentation and mini-face-lifts along with other outpatient procedures. I have done the case on room air and with an LMA. Although the LMA requires slightly more ketafol I can keep the patient a little deeper (BIS around 50-55). With the surgeons permission I have given Clonidine preoperatively to these same patients. But, I had a few facelift patients develop severe hypotension preoperatively which continued well into the post-operative period. The surgeon liked the BP of 80 for the facelift but I was concerned about the 80 year old's coronary's- not to mention mine.

The average age of a facelift patient in my area is the late 60's with many in the 70's and 80's. In addition, many men now are getting facelifts and these guys are not young or always healthy. Clonidine can be a two edged sword and once you feel the "blade" of that sword you will think twice about its 'routine' use in this group.

I limit my total Ketamine dose to 100 mg for outpatient surgery. There is some theoretical concern of apoptosis of the brain with ketamine. Many of my plastic surgery patients are very wealthy retirees who need their remaining brain cells.

Thoughts? Comments?

"Contrary to what our senior friend may believe I have used his technique in varying degrees over the past ten years in search of the 'perfect' cocktail."

Thanks for making it 'senior' not 'senile.'

Not sure what varying degrees means.

Contrary to what you may believe, I have NEVER claimed my technique is perfect. I have only asserted that my published PONV outcomes are better than the outcomes I have seen published.

"(propofol is about $9-$10 per 20 ml vial)."

Again, not sure from where this information comes.

When propofol was proprietary (Diprivan®, Zeneca), it ran about $12-15/ 20 ml vial.

FWIW, in 1996, when I rolled out my SOciety for OFfice Anesthesiologists (SOFA), Zeneca gave me an $8,000 unrestricted grant to support my effort. The SOFA rollout happened at the spring of 1997 IARS mtg in SF. There I first saw the BIS for the first time and knew I had to have it.

Once Baxter entered the market, the price dropped to the figure you quoted.

Now that a Hospira (formerly Abbott) entered the market, my offices are able to secure 20 ml bottles for about $3.

Not sure if there is a 'p' value here but my surgeons are really stoked about the savings.:D

As I stated in other posts, I was attracted to BIS to promote the cost effective use of my surgeons' propofol.

Awareness was never an issue for me in my non-paralyzed, non-intubated patients.

I stopped premedicating my pts. with midazolam in June 1997 and didnt' start premedicating with clonidine until after the 1998 PGA. Again, for the same reasons that attracted me to BIS. No propofol savings according to Oxorn A&A 85:553. 1997.

"However, Aghast's formula and basic ideas have merit."

Thanks. It not so much a 'formula' but a 'paradigm.'

To me, a formula implies a rigid mg/kg or ug/kg/min approach. However, once one knows about the 19 fold inter-individual differences in propofol hydroxylation, it becomes obvious what the limitations of a 'formula' are.

The paradigm is hypnosis first, then dissociation, followed in 2-3 min by injection of local analgesia.

BIS permits the resolution of the age old issue of us asking for more local and the surgeon, observing the epi effect in his blanched field, either ignores the request, informs us of our inadequacy or generally thinks we are nuts for asking. Also, the request has caused some surgeons to think we are doubting their virility. Fragile egos are hardly the sole province of the anesthesiologist.

Anesthesia in Cosmetic Surgery
Ch. 2 Preoperative instructions & intraoperative environment

Table 2-4 The surgeon's 'golden' rules:

1. BIS 60-75 means the patient is adequately asleep.
2. A blanched surgical field does not guarantee adequate analgesia.
3. Re-inject the surgical field if pt. moves at BIS 60-75.

This spares the takeoff of the famous beer commercial "too light... less filling" or in our world: surgeon 'too light,' us 'more local.' Circular argument with no resolution but lots of anguish, hurt feelings and more importantly, hurt patient.:thumbdown:

With blades' seniority, I am certain he has been down this road before.

How nice not too have to fight in the OR and just concentrate on doing the best (again not the 'perfect') thing for the patient.

"For example, using BIS and or EMG to titrate the I.V. anesthetic is a prudent concept."

Using BIS and trending EMG as a secondary trace is what I preach.
EMG being instantaneous is a far better way of staying ahead of pt mvmt. than 'straight' BIS. Of course, when EMG spikes one craftily gives a mini-bolus of propofol to stay ahead of the BIS change. Monitoring propofol in this manner creates such a smooth level of consciousness that some believe it to be GA.

I repeat, if you need to bill it as GA to get paid, do so with my blessing.
My issue is with the AAAASF calling it GA and requiring an anesthesia machine, scavenging and dantrolene. Great expense without a scintilla of patient safety added. My ox is gored on the GA/AAAASF issue and yours is on the billing one.

"I have used ketafol many times on breast augmentation and mini-face-lifts along with other outpatient procedures. I have done the case on room air and with an LMA. Although the LMA requires slightly more ketafol I can keep the patient a little deeper (BIS around 50-55)."

'Ketafol' is the mixture of ketamine and propofol. If this is what you previously referred to as my technique in varying degrees, it is most definitely not hypnosis first, then dissociation.

Room air, LMA is defined by the AAAASF as GA, meaning anes. mach. scavenging & dantrolene. They refuse to even discuss the BIS monitor.

"Although the LMA requires slightly more ketafol I can keep the patient a little deeper (BIS around 50-55)."

In my 10 year case log of 2,683 pts., LMA use is not more than 1%, O2 is about 2-5%.

Fig. 1-1, Appendix 1-1, Ch. 1 Anes in Cosm Surg pictures a rhinoplasty pt. with an LMA in place @ BIS 78. Should you be so inclined, you are welcome anytime to visit me to see what I do differently.

Fig 1-2 BIS tracng for above case:

At no time during the LMA insertion or the majority of the case did the pt. req. BIS 45-60 to tolerate her LMA. Hint, I suspect it may be the clonidine premed.

"The average age of a facelift patient in my area is the late 60's with many in the 70's and 80's. In addition, many men now are getting facelifts and these guys are not young or always healthy. Clonidine can be a two edged sword and once you feel the "blade" of that sword you will think twice about its 'routine' use in this group."

Also, the use of clonidine premed is well described in the plastic surgery literature over a decade ago.

Man PRS 94:214, 1994 & Baker Clin Plast Surg 23:16,1996.

My personal professional experience over the past decade is with >1,500 patients. Only once did I have a significant hypotensive isssue. I resolved it by putting 1 mg epi in 1,000 cc bag and titrating to a 'squeeze' but not an incr HR. Worked fine, pt. awoke w/o further need of support.

Postural hypotension is a well known side effect and the reason one doesn't give it to the pts. at home before they come to the office. Only needs 30-60 min to become effective.

Also, the issue with clonidine and low BP is greatly magnified with concomitant opioid use. No narcs are good narcs.

An incremental propofol induction also mitigates against hypotension in the clonidine predicated pt. No slam dunking required.

I began incrementally inducing to preserve spont. vent. - 15 yrs of bagging left me tired of the whole thing. If they were breathing spontaneously on arrival to the OR, we shouldn't 'goof' them up so badly with our drugs to prevent spont. vent. from continuing. Incremental induction turns out to be very pleasing and gentle from the pts. perspective. Who knew?:)

"I limit my total Ketamine dose to 100 mg for outpatient surgery. There is some theoretical concern of apoptosis of the brain with ketamine. Many of my plastic surgery patients are very wealthy retirees who need their remaining brain cells."

Actually, the military limits their total to 50 mg for the over 50 craniotomy pt. Ch. 7 Anes in Cosm Surg, but then they are not using BIS.

80% of my last 1,000 cases were performed with either one or two 50 mg ketamine boluses. I will go up to 200 mg but none in the last 30 min of the case or instead of adequate local and always maintaining BIS <75.

I think with BIS monitoring the apoptsis of the brain is very theoretical.

As far as brain cells, one quick anecdote:

Did a dental sedation (PK) on an Alzheimer's pt. who emerged lucid for the first time in months.

Made the family promise never to tell anyone I performed this miracle because I was going to publish it in the Journal of Irreproducible Results (JIR). The JIR is a gag but the lucidity was not. :thumbup:

I bid you peace & better outcomes,

aghast1
 
hey aghast,

Your book is reviewed in this months A+A. It went so so... but better than not having a book at all, like the rest of us.

Thanks. I already had it posted on my web site today. Dr. Shafer gave permission to reproduce.

Best of all was the conclusion stating:

"...the textbook serves as a useful primer in the practice of anesthesia for cosmetic surgery and deserves a place on one’s sub-specialty bookshelf."

Remember, Jeff Gross, the senior reviewer, is a politically well placed personage in the world of ASA politics. Had he given too glowing a review of my book, his testicles could have been an endangered species.

He has used my technique and was quite pleased with his outcomes.

Warm regards,

aghast1
 
Did a dental sedation (PK) on an Alzheimer's pt. who emerged lucid for the first time in months.

aghast1

I do not find this surprising. Many NMDA receptor antagonists are used and and have been tested for Alzheimer's disease. Memantine is one of them.
 
My reference to 4 plastic surgeons does not include "cosmetic surgeons" like Oral and facial (ENT, Maxillofacial, etc.). I have done many cases with these people as well.

In my area I didn't see much advanatage to the room air technique compared to LMA. If anything I hve a lot of ASA 3 patients and I appreciate the airway. The advantages of the LMA far exceed the small increase in propofol dose required for it.

Many of my patients are strong ASA 3 types which is why I prefer the SDS/outpatient center over the office. For ASA 1 and 2 the office is fine and I am glad my surgeons agree with me.

There have been at least two cosmetic surgery related deaths during my career. Both were extensive cases in elderly patients and both resulted in large settlements by the plastic surgeons.

There was a surgeon in my area who had to close his practice after a few "settled" cases. The word got out in the community and his practice dried up.

REPUTATION is everything in the plastic surgery arena.

Blade
 
I checked with pharmacy and my brand name Astra-Zeneca propofol cost is $2.50 per 20 ml vial. 5 years ago it was like $9 per vial.

At those prices a full TIVA anesthetic is very cost effective. I think this means more MIA or TIVA for me (a lot more). 10 vials of propofol for $25.00 is a great deal.

Now, the versed pre-med. I give midazolam 2mg IV as a pre-med a lot. I find that 0.2 mg of Romazicon at the end of the case (when needed) and they are awake like turning on a light bulb. I stop the propofol infusion 10 minutes prior to the end of the case (Mac case).

As for BIS I don't use one for hand sugery or Inguinal hernia repair (nasal Oxygen Cases). Do most people prefer an upfront dose of ketamine 50 mg IV or add the ketamine to the propofol syringe?

Comments?
 
My reference to 4 plastic surgeons does not include "cosmetic surgeons" like Oral and facial (ENT, Maxillofacial, etc.). I have done many cases with these people as well.

In my area I didn't see much advanatage to the room air technique compared to LMA. If anything I hve a lot of ASA 3 patients and I appreciate the airway. The advantages of the LMA far exceed the small increase in propofol dose required for it.

Many of my patients are strong ASA 3 types which is why I prefer the SDS/outpatient center over the office. For ASA 1 and 2 the office is fine and I am glad my surgeons agree with me.

There have been at least two cosmetic surgery related deaths during my career. Both were extensive cases in elderly patients and both resulted in large settlements by the plastic surgeons.

There was a surgeon in my area who had to close his practice after a few "settled" cases. The word got out in the community and his practice dried up.

REPUTATION is everything in the plastic surgery arena.

Blade

"plastic surgeons does not include "cosmetic surgeons" like Oral and facial (ENT, Maxillofacial, etc.)."

You neglected a substantial group - the derm surgeons, numbering about 3,000 in their national organization.

The cosmetic surgeons, by disposition, tend to be more entrepreneurial than the plastic surgeons who somehow think I should pay them for the privilege of anesthetizing their patients.:barf:

I don't differentiate between my cash paying clients even though the plastic surgeons wold have you believe they and they alone have the 'right' to perform cosmetic surgery. The plastic boys are still trying to deny Klein's contribution to the safer use of lidocaine by calling his solution 'wetting' solution. Puh-lease.

"In my area, I didn't see much advantage to the room air technique compared to LMA. "

I have no issue with the use of oxygen. RASV, room air, spontaneous ventilation, is my way of trying to emphasize minimalism or rail against the 'routine' use of O2 & airways.

However, there doesn't seem to be much point in hanging O2 and stuffing an airway down if the pt. is exchanging well and maintaining sats > 95 on room air.

Not that you need my blessing but, if it makes you feel more comfortable to use an LMA, go right ahead. It is a routine for me only when doing a rhinoplasty with osteotomies. Otherwise, it is at the end (#4) of my airway algorithm (previously posted).

"The advantages of the LMA far exceed the small increase in propofol dose required for it."

I don't seem to require more propofol for LMA, but that is likely related to the clonidine premed effect.

" There have been at least two cosmetic surgery related deaths during my career. Both were extensive cases in elderly patients..."

Agreed. My career in cosmetic surgery anesthesia began with a 1990 death in an otherwise healthy 34 yo mother of 2 in the office of a plastic surgeon with the 'gold' standards:

1. Board certified
2. Hospital privileges
3. AAAASF Certified facility
4. can't remember the 4th. darn, getting old is not for sissies.
FWIW, he had an anesthesiologist.

She succumbed secondary to resp. arrest following inappropriate, unmonitored fentanyl administration in the recovery area.

It was for this surgeon I developed my PK MAC following Vinnik's paradigm: hypnosis first, then dissociation.

The next avoidable death came in 1997, again in a basically healthy 56 yo woman, again the surgeon had the 'gold' standards promulgated by the plastic surgeon's society. He, too, was working with an anesthesiologist.

This death followed the administration of 18 liters of IV fluid to 'replace' the 9 liters of 'wetting' solution injected. Surgeon insisted, anes. complied.

Olivia Goldsmith's 2004 avoidable death sparked my publishers interest in a textbook, resulting in Anesthesia in Cosmetic Surgery. Goldsmith died at the prestigious Manhattan Eye & Ear Hospital. 'His lordship,' the surgeon, insisted he could not perform his 'artistry' with the noise of the anesthesia monitors. Silencing the monitors for a sedation case, turned the anesthesia safety clock back to before 1984. :barf:

Just recently, the death of Donde West, mother of rapper Kanye West, was very likely due to Vicodin toxicity - either unintentional overdose or high sensitivity if she had sleep apnea. Had the misfortune of giving anesthesia for Dr. Adams on 2 occasions. He was obliged to use MIA as opposed to his preference for GA.

"REPUTATION is everything in the plastic surgery arena."

So, too, is it for the anesthesia for plastic/cosmetic surgery.

My reputation is that I would rather not do the case than administer GA for a cosmetic case. It's MIA or the highway.:love:

carry on,

aghast1
 
I checked with pharmacy and my brand name Astra-Zeneca propofol cost is $2.50 per 20 ml vial. 5 years ago it was like $9 per vial.

At those prices a full TIVA anesthetic is very cost effective. I think this means more MIA or TIVA for me (a lot more). 10 vials of propofol for $25.00 is a great deal.

Now, the versed pre-med. I give midazolam 2mg IV as a pre-med a lot. I find that 0.2 mg of Romazicon at the end of the case (when needed) and they are awake like turning on a light bulb. I stop the propofol infusion 10 minutes prior to the end of the case (Mac case).


"As for BIS I don't use one for hand surgery or Inguinal hernia repair (nasal Oxygen Cases)."

Not promising, but you may discover that by titrating propofol to BIS/EMG, your patients may just maintain their SpO2s > 95 on room air. Again, if you are uncomfortable or feel it's just 'safer' to hang O2 on everyone, go ahead.

As for BIS I don't use one for hand surgery or Inguinal hernia repair (nasal Oxygen Cases). Do most people prefer an upfront dose of ketamine 50 mg IV or add the ketamine to the propofol syringe? Comments?

"Now, the versed pre-med. I give midazolam 2mg IV as a pre-med a lot."

You and nearly everybody in the anesthesia universe, crnas too.:eek:

If you are giving it for propofol sparing, it doesn't work even though the pts. go to sleep faster.
If you are giving it for amnesia, propofol @ BIS <75 is a perfectly adequate amnestic.
If you are giving it because you can't think of anything better to give, I suggest trying 0.2 mg po clonidine 30-60 min preop.

By decreasing endogenous catechols back closer to baseline, the pt. receives de facto tranquility (ostensibly the rationale for the midazolam).
A calm pt. decreases the amount of propofol req. for induction & maintenance - less of an issue c prop @ $2.50-3/20 ml bottle.
Lastly, calm pts. perceive pain differently (and less) than pts. who were anxious preoperatively.

"0.2 mg of Romazicon at the end of the case..."

Correct me if I am wrong, but my impression was that flumazenil's half life was less than that of midazolam. Also, I was taught it was less desirable to depend on reversal rather than careful titration for medicating pts.

"I stop the propofol infusion 10 minutes prior to the end of the case (Mac case)"

Never been successful with that approach. Might have something to do with the 19 fold inter-individual differences in propofol hydroxylation.

"As for BIS I don't use one for hand surgery or Inguinal hernia repair (nasal Oxygen Cases)."

Not promising, but you may discover that by titrating propofol to BIS/EMG, your patients may just maintain their SpO2s > 95 on room air. Again, if you are uncomfortable or feel it's just 'safer' to hang O2 on everyone, go ahead.

"Do most people prefer an upfront dose of ketamine 50 mg IV or add the ketamine to the propofol syringe? Comments?"

Comments? There is an entire chapter in Anesthesia in Cosmetic Surgery 'The dissociative effect and pre-emptive analgesia.'

Many people fiddled around with various combinations of propofol and ketamine (ketafol, etc) before I embarked on my journey with Vinnik's paradigm.

It really depends on what you are trying to achieve, TIVA or MAC. With TIVA the surgeon's local is not critical for success, with MAC it is. Remember we used to call MAC 'local with standby.'

I have no issue with those who like the TIVA approach. If it works for them, great. My preference is to force the issue of adequate intra-operative local analgesia rather than have to deal with the consequences in recovery.

If you don't hurt the pt. putting in the local (which is exactly what happens with stinky gas GA) and you don't hurt the pt. doing the surgery, then you don't have postop pain issue that 1,000 mg acetaminophen or 30 mg iv ketorolac can't handle. This is fundamental to understanding minimally invasive anesthesia®.

"... upfront dose of ketamine IV..."

Please. The technique is called propofol ketamine NOT ketamine propofol. If you give the ketamine upfront, you will have an unpredictable 20% of your pts. hallucinate or other nasty things like being just dysphoric. Don't curse my name if you don't play my game :cool: - hypnosis first, then dissociation.

best regards,

aghast1
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Romazicon- Speeds the wake-up by several minutes at the end of the case by reversing the midazolam "enough" so the patient is not sedated from that medication. Then, all you have left is the propofol.

10 minutes- I turn the propofol off because the patient has NO pain and the surgeon is at the very end of the case/dressing the wound. The vast majority of patients will be awake and conversant as they leave the room.

As for ketamine upfront I meant 50 mg IV ALONG with the propofol at the start of the case. They are 10 seconds apart. Do most prefer to mix it with the propofol?

As for 0xygen via Nasal canula why not? The cost is minimal and it may be beneficial.

For a real MAC case why is BIS necessary? After all, I explain to the patient about "twilight" and make no bones about telling him/her about hearing us talking in the O.R. The vast majority of true MAC patients are fine with this.
TIVA is a whole other animal and BIS may be of benefit.
 
I just did a 90 minute case with TIVA (propofol plus ketamine 50 mg) and LMA. No local by surgeon until the end of case. I used BIS with EMG.

I was able to reduce propofol to 100 ug/kg/min with a BIS reading of 50-55.
Fentanyl 100 ug for case and local inj. at the end by surgeon. Midazolam 2 mg IV in holding for anxiety. Romazicon 0.1 mg IV at the end of the case.

PT opened eyes and BIS read 78. EMG however indicated pt. was light at BIS reading of 62 which was 4 minutes prior to complete awakening.

Pt. left room talking, feeling good with no pain. She was brought to secondary and went home 30 minutes later. Nice! LMA did not impede wake-up or in any way slow room turn-over.

I used pressure support ventilation with LMA. PS=6 Peep=4 with back-up rate of 8 (not needed as RR=10-18 for case). I threw in the $1.00 Zofran 4mg IV for good measure prior to leaving the room.

Blade
 
I just did a 90 minute case with TIVA (propofol plus ketamine 50 mg) and LMA. No local by surgeon until the end of case. I used BIS with EMG.

I was able to reduce propofol to 100 ug/kg/min with a BIS reading of 50-55.
Fentanyl 100 ug for case and local inj. at the end by surgeon. Midazolam 2 mg IV in holding for anxiety. Romazicon 0.1 mg IV at the end of the case.

PT opened eyes and BIS read 78. EMG however indicated pt. was light at BIS reading of 62 which was 4 minutes prior to complete awakening.

Pt. left room talking, feeling good with no pain. She was brought to secondary and went home 30 minutes later. Nice! LMA did not impede wake-up or in any way slow room turn-over.

I used pressure support ventilation with LMA. PS=6 Peep=4 with back-up rate of 8 (not needed as RR=10-18 for case). I threw in the $1.00 Zofran 4mg IV for good measure prior to leaving the room.

Blade

Prev post stated:

One anesthesiologist told me the more drugs he used, the better he felt.

Was it good for you?:barf:

The mere fact that the pt. did well is more of a testimony to the heartiness of pts. than your technique. But, some ketamine is better than none.:)

"...used pressure support ventilation with LMA."

Hard to understand why the patient could not breathe adequately on their own.

Was the LMA an 'automatic' or did you not make any other attempt to maintain the airway; i.e. facelift position, IV bag under the shoulders, nasal airway.

In other words, are you using a 'shotgun' to kill a 'housefly' or even considering the 'flyswatter?'

Was the fentanyl really necessary? Explain why aside from 'routine practice?'

What kind of case? Clarification requested.

Why was the surgeon reluctant to put the local in prior to incision?

Were you not on speaking terms?

Sounds like a good MIA case from the sketchy details.

Have a good weekend,

aghast:)
 
Romazicon- Speeds the wake-up by several minutes at the end of the case by reversing the midazolam "enough" so the patient is not sedated from that medication. Then, all you have left is the propofol.

10 minutes- I turn the propofol off because the patient has NO pain and the surgeon is at the very end of the case/dressing the wound. The vast majority of patients will be awake and conversant as they leave the room.

As for ketamine upfront I meant 50 mg IV ALONG with the propofol at the start of the case. They are 10 seconds apart. Do most prefer to mix it with the propofol?

As for 0xygen via Nasal cannula why not? The cost is minimal and it may be beneficial.

For a real MAC case why is BIS necessary? After all, I explain to the patient about "twilight" and make no bones about telling him/her about hearing us talking in the O.R. The vast majority of true MAC patients are fine with this.
TIVA is a whole other animal and BIS may be of benefit.

"Romazicon- Speeds the wake-up by several minutes at the end of the case by reversing the midazolam "enough" so the patient is not sedated from that medication. Then, all you have left is the propofol."

Nice, but unresponsive to the issue of romazicon's half-life being shorter than that of midazolam.

Also, unresponsive as to style; i.e. depending on reversal agents as opposed to titration.

Lastly, unresponsive as to the need for the midazolam in the first place. I know, "everybody does it.'

"As for 0xygen via Nasal canula why not? The cost is minimal and it may be beneficial."

The minimalist asks 'why?' Were the room air sats. unacceptable or it is just a non-thinking 'routine.'

If room air sats unacceptable, did you consider the anesthetic might have been excessive?

Was the pt. using oxygen when they arrived for surgery?

" TIVA is a whole other animal and BIS may be of benefit."

IMHO, anytime one is titrating propofol independent of whether it is a MAC or TIVA, BIS is highly useful.

There is a 19 fold inter-individual variation in propofol hydroxylation. Without measuring the end organ effect, you will always be over-dosing.

However, since propofol is reportedly an anti-oxidant, maybe you can't have too much of a 'good' thing.:D

Best regards,

aghast1
 
Now, the versed pre-med. I give midazolam 2mg IV as a pre-med a lot. I find that 0.2 mg of Romazicon at the end of the case (when needed) and they are awake like turning on a light bulb. I stop the propofol infusion 10 minutes prior to the end of the case (Mac case).

Comments?

Interesting. I think midazolam is pretty much gone after even some of our shorter cases. I do far too many black snake cases each year, with most of them getting fentanyl 100mcg, midazolam 2mg and some propofol. They're all talking by the time we enter the PACU, and they're all out the door before I get to PACU with the patient that follows 20-30 minutes later.

Our P&T committee requires that we submit a hospital incident report if romazicon is used anywhere in the hospital, the assumption being that an overdoze of benzos was given. It is probably used once or twice a year in our department out of 40k cases per year.
 
Interesting. I think midazolam is pretty much gone after even some of our shorter cases. I do far too many black snake cases each year, with most of them getting fentanyl 100mcg, midazolam 2mg and some propofol. They're all talking by the time we enter the PACU, and they're all out the door before I get to PACU with the patient that follows 20-30 minutes later.

Our P&T committee requires that we submit a hospital incident report if romazicon is used anywhere in the hospital, the assumption being that an overdoze of benzos was given. It is probably used once or twice a year in our department out of 40k cases per year.


Incident report? That is rough for giving a generic low dose reversal agent so the patient can go straight to secondary. I don't use Romazicon on every case. Romazicon is no more of an "incident" than Neostigmine is for muscle relaxant. I have use low dose Romazicon in a few hundred SDS cases without problem or increase in N/V. These patients go right to secondary and then home in 30 minutes.

Now, if your hospital wants a 'report' for a low dose reversal agent I understand why you don't use it. It is not needed to wake the patient up but it can help bypass the PACU on occasion and speed room turn-over.
Like anything else it has a niche in certain practices/cases.

Blade
 
I find that ketamine 50mg IV can decrease you Propofol requirements in a TIVA case by up to 50%. Good bang for you buck. I administer the 50mg after the propofol induction dose. The wake-up is fast with this technique as well- usually less than 5 minutes.

I am still not using ketamine my post CVA, Dementia and age greater than 80 groups. Comments?
 
I find that ketamine 50mg IV can decrease you Propofol requirements in a TIVA case by up to 50%. Good bang for you buck. I administer the 50mg after the propofol induction dose. The wake-up is fast with this technique as well- usually less than 5 minutes.

I am still not using ketamine my post CVA, Dementia and age greater than 80 groups. Comments?

:rolleyes:Dude, don't you know ketamine causes hallucinations, tachycardia & hypertension?:bullcrap:

Actually completely untrue if hypnotic doses of propofol are used first.

It's the propofol that may cause an issue if overdone (BIS <45) in post CVA and dementia pts.

Of course, I reckon you can do this with vital signs trends, right?:rolleyes:

Best regards,

aghast1
 
Deep Venous Thrombosis and Pulmonary Embolism in Plastic Surgery Office Procedures
In the interests of increasing patient safety and decreasing the liability risk for physicians, The Doctors Company presents the following discussion of 12 recent medical malpractice claims involving pulmonary emboli after plastic surgery office procedures and a review of the relevant literature.
Thromboembolic phenomena, including deep venous thrombosis (DVT) and its feared sequela of pulmonary embolism (PE), are known postoperative risks of lengthy surgical procedures. Plastic surgery procedures also place patients at risk for these complications, and a number of recent articles in the literature have focused specifically on this problem.1–5 Most of these articles have emphasized the importance of prevention, since statistics show that most patients suffering embolic events will die before potentially effective treatment can be initiated.1–3
Preventive techniques, including elastic stockings and intermittent leg compression devices, are routinely used today in many hospital operating rooms for the majority of cases, including aesthetic surgeries. The use of these devices in office operating rooms and surgery centers is inconsistent. The Doctors Company has noted a continuing incidence of malpractice claims involving plastic surgery patients who suffer serious injury or die from venous thrombosis after office surgeries. Often, a major issue in these claims is the failure to take preventive measures for patients who might have been considered at increased risk for thrombotic episodes.
Claims
The 12 claims included patients aged 31–64, with a mean age of 47, comprising 11 females and one male. Eight of the 12 claims involved abdominoplasties, with six of these combined with other procedures performed at the same time. Half of the claims were performed under general anesthesia provided by an anesthesiologist or a CRNA, and half were performed under intravenous sedation. Nine of the patients died as a result of the pulmonary embolism, while three survived.
The following is a composite case incorporating details from several of the claims:
A 57-year-old woman presented for abdominoplasty and liposuction of her thighs. She was obese and on hormone replacement. The procedure was performed under general anesthesia in the plastic surgeon’s office and took five hours. The insured did not routinely use either stockings or compression devices in the office, explaining that the liposuction on the legs would have made this technically difficult. The patient phoned the insured the day following surgery complaining of shortness of breath while walking. She was told to release some of the pressure on the abdominal binder. One day later, she was found dead in bed by her husband. An autopsy listed the cause of death as “massive saddle pulmonary embolism.”
Incidence
The incidence of thromboembolic disease is difficult to estimate and varies from study to study. In 2001, the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) extrapolated existing data to estimate that over 18,000 cases of deep venous thrombosis may occur in plastic surgery patients each year. Despite this, over half of the surgeons responding to an ASPS questionnaire indicated that they currently used no form of DVT prophylaxis.4
Pulmonary embolism is the leading cause of death following liposuction, accounting for 23 percent of the deaths in one study.6 When liposuction is combined with other procedures, the mortality rate increases from one per 47,415 surgeries to one per 7,314.7 A significant proportion of that increased mortality may be due to PEs.
Of all common plastic surgery procedures, abdominoplasty has the highest rate of thromboembolic complications, with estimates as high as a 1.2 percent incidence for DVT and a 0.8 percent incidence for pulmonary embolism.1 Possible reasons for this include impairment of drainage of the superficial veins from the legs and pelvic area during performance of the abdominoplasty,1 as well as hip flexion during surgery slowing flow through larger veins. The use of abdominal binders postoperatively increases abdominal pressure and decreases venous return.3, 6 Whenever abdominoplasty is combined with other surgical procedures, the risk of thromboembolic complications may increase.1
Facelift procedures would not be expected to mechanically impair venous return, yet they are still associated with a smaller but significant number of DVT and PE complications due to the immobilization during surgery. Estimates are that the incidence in facelift patients is 0.35 percent for DVT and 0.14 percent for PE.3 With a combined incidence of 0.49 percent, the average plastic surgeon might, therefore, expect one case of either DVT or PE for every 200 facelifts performed. A major survey found that general anesthesia was used in 44 percent of facelift patients overall, but in 84 percent of the patients who developed thromboembolism—suggesting an increased relative risk from general anesthesia alone.3
One procedure is associated with an unusually high incidence of thromboembolic complications. A study of belt lipectomies (circumferential panniculectomy) reported a pulmonary embolism rate of 9.3 percent even with the use of prophylactic measures, prompting the authors to conclude that “belt lipectomy should be undertaken only in patients who are well informed about the possible risks and complications.”8
Risk Factors
Numerous patient characteristics that increase the risk of postoperative thrombosis have been identified. These include smoking, obesity, advanced age, use of hormone replacement or oral contraceptives, congestive heart failure, immobilization (bed rests, casts), malignancy, history of previous thromboembolism, and inherited hypercoagulable states.1, 2 It has been suggested that these factors may act synergistically so that patients who have more than one of these risks may develop DVTs at an incidence higher than would be predicted by the sum of the individual risks.2
General anesthesia is likely an independent risk factor because of the immobility associated with it. After the first hour of general anesthesia, there appears to be a linear relationship between the procedure time and the incidence of postoperative DVTs.3
Preventive Measures
Several clinical steps, devices, and medications are available that have proven effective for the prevention of DVTs. One simple measure is flexing the patient’s knees to approximately five degrees by placing a pillow underneath them, which increases popliteal venous return.1, 2 This can be accomplished easily in almost all cases.
Graded elastic compression stockings that increase venous return by applying constant pressure to the legs have been shown to reduce the incidence of DVTs.2 One study focusing on facelift patients, however, found no evidence that these hose provided protection when used alone.3 Other evidence indicates that thromboembolism hose may be most effective when used together with the intermittent compression devices discussed below.2
Intermittent pneumatic compression devices (IPCs), which apply variable and intermittent positive pressure to the legs, enhance venous return and are widely used in operating rooms for the prevention of lower extremity thrombosis. The relative risk of DVTs with the use of these devices is approximately 0.28 percent, or about one fourth of the risk of procedures performed without them.1 These pressure devices have also been shown to induce fibrinolysis and cause the release of antiplatelet aggregation factors—additional mechanisms of clot prevention. It is recommended that, ideally, they be placed and operational before the induction of anesthesia.1, 3
Anticoagulants are useful for patients at high risk of developing venous thrombosis. These include heparin, warfarin, and the low-molecular-weight heparins (LMWH) such as enoxaparin. Several authors feel that there are advantages of LMWH over heparin, including a lower incidence of thrombocytopenia,1, 2 a lower rate of bleeding complications when used in lower doses, and the ease of once-a-day subcutaneous dosing.2 If the first dose of LMWH is given two hours before surgery, it has been shown to protect throughout the perioperative period.2 Bleeding can present unique problems for cosmetic surgery patients, and the risks of DVT must always be weighed against the risk of increased bleeding in any given patient.
Prophylaxis Algorithm
In 1999, the American Society of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons issued a practice guideline regarding thromboprophylaxis.5 It suggested that patients be stratified into three levels of risk. Low-risk patients are those under age 40 having minor procedures. Moderate-risk patients are aged 40 and above, undergoing procedures longer than 30 minutes. Patients on oral contraceptives or using postmenopausal hormone replacement are also considered to be at moderate risk in the absence of other factors. High-risk patients are over 40, having procedures longer than 30 minutes under general anesthesia or possessing additional risk factors.
A 2002 advisory suggested that even low-risk patients should have their knees slightly flexed on the operating room table.9 For procedures on moderate-risk patients, in addition to the knee flexion, it is recommended that intermittent pneumatic compression devices be placed before beginning anesthesia and remain operational until the patient is awake and moving. With high-risk patients, in addition to both of the above measures, it is suggested that a hematology consultation be obtained and antithrombotic medical therapy be considered.9 The importance of early ambulation for all three risk groups has been stressed.2
A 2004 article on thromboembolism prevention2 further refined the risk stratification of patients to a scoring system, giving points for each risk factor that the patient exhibits, such as age, obesity, hormones, or malignancy. The number of points accumulated then determines the risk rating. This information is then attached to an order sheet so that appropriate measures can be taken. This article recommends the use of elastic compression stockings in addition to intermittent pneumatic compression stockings for all but the lowest risk patients.
While specialty society advisories and guidelines do not technically constitute the standard of care for medical-legal cases, it can be hard for a jury to understand why a physician would fail to adhere to their published recommendations. Of the 12 cases reviewed by The Doctors Company, only four exhibited care that would be consistent with the society’s current guidelines described above. The most common deviation was the failure to use intermittent pneumatic compression devices in moderate- and high-risk patients.
Patient Safety Suggestions
Surgeons should routinely question all preoperative patients about the risk factors for thrombosis listed in the algorithm above. The patient’s history and physical should include pertinent information about risks, including malignancy history or hormone usage and documentation of any suspicious findings such as pre-existing leg edema. Patients may be advised to discontinue supplemental hormones one week prior to the procedure.1
For procedures with higher risks of thromboembolic complications, such as abdominoplasty, belt lipectomy, and large volume liposuction, the risk of DVT and PE should be explained to patients as part of the informed-consent process. The proposed prophylactic measures can then be discussed, as well as the possibility of performing the procedure in a more acute care environment if deemed appropriate. Informed-consent deficiencies and the fact that the patient was never apprised that the procedure could be done somewhere other than in the office were not infrequent allegations in the malpractice claims reviewed.
Intermittent compression devices have been described as being of low cost and low morbidity, leading to the suggestion that they be used in any lengthy plastic surgery procedure or in any procedure performed under general anesthesia.3 Despite this advice, many malpractice claims continue to be seen involving patients who developed pulmonary emboli after long procedures in which the IPC device was not employed. Often the surgeons in these claims argue that pneumatic compression systems were not standard for offices at the time or that it was difficult to apply them because of the nature of the surgery.
Suggestions for using the compression device when surgery is being performed on the legs include sterilizing the plastic leg wraps and applying them after the patient is prepped1 or placing them only on the lower leg when procedures are performed above the knee. Surgeons should be aware that many offices now have intermittent compression machines, having purchased them new or used, leased them, or rented them on a case-by-case basis.
The use of general anesthesia for long plastic procedures is a subject of current debate. While some authors laud its advantages,10 others caution that the immobility associated with general anesthesia is a significant risk factor for thromboembolism. Newer techniques for intravenous sedation that include the use of propofol drips, often in combination with other drugs, have made it possible to perform lengthy or extensive surgeries without general anesthesia and without the loss of the patient’s airway protective reflexes.11:clap:
This has led the plastic surgery society task force to conclude: “When possible, procedures longer than three or four hours should be performed with local anesthesia and intravenous sedation because general anesthesia is associated with deep vein thrombosis at much higher rates under prolonged operative conditions.”5 Surgeons should consider taking an active role in the planning of the type of anesthesia used rather than simply deferring this decision to the anesthesia provider, who may not always consider the risk of thrombotic disease. Because the length of the procedure itself increases the risk for many complications, the American Society of Plastic Surgeons has recommended that, ideally, office procedures should be completed within six hours.9 Sometimes this might involve staging multiple procedures into more than one case.
Diagnosis and Treatment
Untreated proximal leg DVTs will progress to pulmonary embolism at a rate estimated to be near 50 percent. The rate of PE in treated patients is less than 5 percent.1 Early and aggressive treatment is, therefore, the goal. The symptoms of both DVT and PE are nonspecific and may be absent in any given patient.2 Physicians must have a high suspicion for patients complaining of possible symptoms who have recently had any surgery, including, of course, cosmetic procedures.
The symptoms and signs of DVT include calf pain and tenderness, leg edema, and venous engorgement.1, 10 Presenting complaints with PE may include chest pain, dyspnea, hemoptysis, tachycardia, and tachypnea.1, 10 Preliminary screening tests include a chest x-ray (insensitive) and a serum D-dimer test, which is a marker for thrombosis.1 However, if PE is a differential diagnostic consideration, consultation should be obtained regarding definitive testing (helical CT scan, ventilation-perfusion lung scan) and treatment.
Interestingly, in seven out of the 12 cases reviewed by The Doctors Company, the patients phoned the insured plastic surgeons complaining of symptoms later thought to be related to pulmonary embolism. These included shortness of breath (five claims), lightheadedness, tachypnea, and fainting. In only two of the claims, the surgeons instructed the patients to go to the emergency room immediately; both of those patients survived. The remaining five claims included the allegations that the surgeons failed to have a sufficiently high suspicion about thromboembolic disease, had misdiagnosed or minimized their patients’ complaints, and failed to act immediately and aggressively—thereby depriving them of an increased chance for survival.
Plastic surgery procedures are by definition elective, and a death from postoperative pulmonary embolism is an unexpected tragedy. With vigilant prevention and early diagnosis and treatment, we are hopeful that more patients can be spared this devastating consequence.
References
  1. Most D, Kozlow J, Heller J, Shermak M: Thromboembolism in plastic surgery. Plast Reconstr Surg 115(2):20e–30e, 2005
  2. Davison S, Venturi M, Attiger C, Baker S, Spear S: Prevention of venous thromboembolism in the plastic surgery patient. Plast Reconstr Surg 114(3):43e–51e, 2004
  3. Reinisch JF, Bresnick SD, Walker JW, Rosso RF: Deep venous thrombosis and pulmonary embolus after face lift. Plast Reconstr Surg 107(6):1570–5, discussion 76–77, 2001
  4. Rohrich R, Rios J: Venous thromboembolism in cosmetic plastic surgery. Plast Reconstr Surg 112(3):871–72, 2003
  5. McDevitt NB: Deep vein thrombosis prophylaxis. Plast Reconstr Surg 104(6):1923–28, 1999
  6. de Jong RH, Grazer FM: Perioperative management of cosmetic liposuction. Plast Reconstr Surg 107(4):1039–44, 2001
  7. Hughes CE: Reduction of lipoplasty risks and mortality. Aesth Surg 21(2):161–63, 2001
  8. Aly AS, Cram AE, Chao M, Pang J, McKeon M: Belt lipectomy for circumferential truncal excess. Plast Reconstr Surg 111(1):398–413, 2003
  9. Iverson RE, ASPS Task Force: Patient safety in office-based surgery facilities. Plast Reconstr Surg 110(5):1337–42, 2002
  10. Iverson RE, Lynch DJ, ASPS Committee on Patient Safety: Practice advisory on liposuction. Plast Reconstr Surg 113(5):1478–90, 2004
  11. Propofol-ketamine technique: dissociative anesthesia for office surgery. Aesth Plast Surg 23:70–75, 1999
J4254 09/05

clear.gif

About the Author

Ann S. Lofsky, M.D., is a practicing anesthesiologist in Santa Monica, California. Dr. Lofsky, anesthesia consultant and board member emeritus to The Doctors Company, is a diplomate of the American Board of Anesthesiology and the American Board of Internal Medicine.


The guidelines suggested in this article are not rules, and they do not ensure a successful outcome. They attempt to define principles of practice for providing appropriate care. The principles are not inclusive of all proper methods of care nor exclusive of other methods reasonably directed at obtaining the same results. The ultimate decision regarding the appropriateness of any treatment must be made by each health care provider in light of all circumstances prevailing in the individual situation and in accordance with the laws of the jurisdiction in which the care is rendered.
© 2005 by
The Doctors Company
All Rights Reserved

The Doctors Company
185 Greenwood Road
P.O. Box 2900
Napa, CA 94558-0900
(800) 421-2368
www.thedoctors.com
E-mail: [email protected]
 
i share this case as an example of what mia can mean for special pts. this experience, while not common in my practice, has had precedent. it is more common for me to anesthetize the same pt. multiple times over a 2-3 yr. period.

yesterday, i had the pleasure of anesthetizing a former pt. who remembered me from 7 years ago & insisted upon having the same anesthetic. could it have been the bravado?:D no, she said it had been the best experience of her life with anesthesia.

her hx is interesting in that she had 20 some previous anes. experiences before her first one with me, 7 yrs. pta.

every other anesthetic resulted in her being overdosed and having been admitted to er on at least one occasion. previously, hangovers ranged from hours to days.

her only complaints about my anesthetic were her eyes and mouth being dry.:oops:

she even brought my 7 year old anes record with her notes about the dryness. the ultimate cosmetic surgery pt.

she was 52 yo & 117 lb. (53 kg)

i halved my usual clonidine dose to 0.1 mg and halved my usual glyco dose to 0.1 mg. did use a full 50 mg dose ketamine without problem.

the case ran about three hours and she awakened at the end of the case (took about 2,000 mg propofol titrated to BIS 70-75) and was delighted with her experience. no dry mouth, no dry eyes. nice to be the hero instead of the goat.:clap:

an unusual feature is that i was obliged to work with a surgeon with whom i had never worked before. he was in santa monica, a long haul up the 405 from newport beach. thanks to the natural gas car, i was able to use the car pool lane by myself.

the surgeon used to be a local + sedation guy for 15 yrs but then switched over to ga with iso. even complained to me about the cost of the dantrolene. :scared:

i'd like to say that he was so impressed that he wanted to go back to local with sedation. not the case.:( he was sufficiently impressed to say it was an excellent technique.:bow:

i hope the attendings on this list will share their stories about the similar experiences they have had. also, i hope the trainees will find themselves in a place where this kind of experience can happen for them, too.

rain coming tonight. the surfers had a blast yesterday. one died in monterey:(:cry:

aghast1
 
Top