Just from a financial standpoint, does a DDS, MD OS make more money per procedure than a DDS OS? I'm just wondering what the financial return on investment is for the investment in med school tuition one pays? Thanks.
It definitely doesn't give you any direct financial benefit, such as letting you charge more for your procedures.
Only if their dental degree is a DDS, though. If they're a DMD, they have to accept what the HMO pays them.This is 100% not true. Dual degree OMS guys earn at least 50% more than their single degree counterparts. And dual degree Orthodontists earn about 75% more than their single degree counterparts.
This is 100% not true. Dual degree OMS guys earn at least 50% more than their single degree counterparts. And dual degree Orthodontists earn about 75% more than their single degree counterparts.
Only if their dental degree is a DDS, though. If they're a DMD, they have to accept what the HMO pays them.
Financially, you will do worse with an MD. It takes 2 extra years and requires payment of 2-3 years of tuition. Not only have you lost those 2 years of earning potential by delaying your entry into private practice, but you have also doubled your debt.
Finally, I think triple degree orthodontists make the most!
Unfortunately, we are going to find out here in May after I get my MS
I don't understand? Same number of letters after the name = same amount of money right?
Wht is diference btw DDS DMD plz?????//
that's what i thought tooI think he was kidding
Just from a financial standpoint, does a DDS, MD OS make more money per procedure than a DDS OS? I'm just wondering what the financial return on investment is for the investment in med school tuition one pays? Thanks.
Jeeez...you got more degrees than a thermometer.
Ultimately, how much you make is dependant upon how much you want to work for it and what procedures that you do.
Doing a single degree residency or a dual residency will prepare you both to do routine OMFS stuff. However, the dual surgeon will always have more training anyway that you look at it.
Not doing a dual training program is usually motivated by a financial decision. This is the only reason to do a single degree track.
There are a lot more options if you have both degrees.
One of the residents in my program was at the AAOMS meeting and attended an associate preparation meeting for new surgeons and those surgeons that were looking to add a new surgeon to their practice. The guy giving the presentation, single degree, said that dual surgeons receive a higher initial contract arrangement. I can't recall the amount, but it seems like it was around 50 K more per year.
I also disagree with the statement that the single degree scope will get better with time. I think that it will narrow with time.
Our specialty is really not expanding like it should. More new surgeons need to get out there and practice full scope surgery and not be limited to teeth and titanium. Recently, there was an article in the plastic surgery journal about orthognathic surgery for the next generation. I hope that the next generation for orthognathic surgeons is not plastic surgeons. We are losing ground and need to spend less time fighting about who makes more and start contributing to our specialty. We need to be doing more orthognathic surgery, more cosmetics, more cancer, more reconstruction, more clefts and more hospital based surgery. Sure these don't pay as well as teeth and titanium, but our presence needs to be seen in every hospital in the US.
Every new surgeon should finish OMFS training and establish a full scope practice.
....Interestingly, a lot of these fellowships go unmatched now, which is really going to limit the field of OMFS in the future.
Really? Which article talks about this? Or which fellowships? There were almost 3x the usual number of applicants for oncology fellowships this past year.
99% of people I talk to who want to go into OMFS don't want to do major surgery. They all want to go into private practice and perform minor procedures.
So what does it matter, even if one gets the an MD, and 'better training'.
Personally, I don't have an inferiority complex, and don't need an MD to make myself feel better at the end of the day.
I sure as hell don't think having an MD, would impress a family dentist either.
Our specialty is really not expanding like it should. More new surgeons need to get out there and practice full scope surgery and not be limited to teeth and titanium. Recently, there was an article in the plastic surgery journal about orthognathic surgery for the next generation. I hope that the next generation for orthognathic surgeons is not plastic surgeons. We are losing ground and need to spend less time fighting about who makes more and start contributing to our specialty. We need to be doing more orthognathic surgery, more cosmetics, more cancer, more reconstruction, more clefts and more hospital based surgery. Sure these dont pay as well as teeth and titanium, but our presence needs to be seen in every hospital in the US.
Every new surgeon should finish OMFS training and establish a full scope practice.
Personally, I don't have an inferiority complex, and don't need an MD to make myself feel better at the end of the day.
Recently, there was an article in the plastic surgery journal about orthognathic surgery for the next generation. I hope that the next generation for orthognathic surgeons is not plastic surgeons.
I do. I have a huge inferiority complex and lets face it....at the end of the day my MD makes me feel like the bulge in my pants is that much bigger....
Ok seriously....I learned quite a bit in med school and think that the MD adds to your training immensely. I think it kinda does it indirectly though, and yes it has everything to do with others perception. For instance, i'm doing my GS/anesthsia year right now and during these rotation months i know i am doing more and have more responsibility/autonomy/leeway than without the degree. During my SICU month i was put into a schedule with 2 second year GS residents, and we each had one week of nights in the unit and you literally "run" the unit at night by yourself(there is an attending somewhere in a call room i guess). You are responsible for placing all the lines in new trauma patients, placing chest tubes into patients who need it and running any codes on existing patients(actually nurses do most of the work), not to mention having to actually make real medical decisions on your own. I just have a hard time believing that without the MD you would ever get that kind of autonomy or leeway in training. And i dont care what anyone says, the repetition of having to make those types of decisions and perform those types of actions constantly ON YOUR OWN is what makes you comfortable with what you do. Just cause you round with the chief and watch he or she make decisions will never give you any comfort when your on your own.
I used to think that there was little difference in the training of either a 4 or 6 year but since going through almost all the MD and GS portion at least down here in good old shrevesville I now have come to believe that without the MD you are missing out on lots of training.
Sorry just my .02, but i am a very big advocate of the Medical Degree, i cant see why you wouldnt want the further training.
99% of people I talk to who want to go into OMFS don't want to do major surgery. They all want to go into private practice and perform minor procedures.
So what does it matter, even if one gets the an MD, and 'better training'.
Personally, I don't have an inferiority complex, and don't need an MD to make myself feel better at the end of the day.
I sure as hell don't think having an MD, would impress a family dentist either.
I can tell from your statement that you are quite a man. You are probably a Tanner stage 1...well maybe 2....Oh, that's right, sorry you wouldn't know what that is. It means you have no hair on your balls...but then again you don't really need hair on your balls when they haven't dropped yet.
I can tell from your statement that you are quite a man. You are probably a Tanner stage 1...well maybe 2....Oh, that's right, sorry you wouldn't know what that is. It means you have no hair on your balls...but then again you don't really need hair on your balls when they haven't dropped yet.
I do. I have a huge inferiority complex and lets face it....at the end of the day my MD makes me feel like the bulge in my pants is that much bigger....
Ok seriously....I learned quite a bit in med school and think that the MD adds to your training immensely. I think it kinda does it indirectly though, and yes it has everything to do with others perception. For instance, i'm doing my GS/anesthsia year right now and during these rotation months i know i am doing more and have more responsibility/autonomy/leeway than without the degree. During my SICU month i was put into a schedule with 2 second year GS residents, and we each had one week of nights in the unit and you literally "run" the unit at night by yourself(there is an attending somewhere in a call room i guess). You are responsible for placing all the lines in new trauma patients, placing chest tubes into patients who need it and running any codes on existing patients(actually nurses do most of the work), not to mention having to actually make real medical decisions on your own. I just have a hard time believing that without the MD you would ever get that kind of autonomy or leeway in training. And i dont care what anyone says, the repetition of having to make those types of decisions and perform those types of actions constantly ON YOUR OWN is what makes you comfortable with what you do. Just cause you round with the chief and watch he or she make decisions will never give you any comfort when your on your own.
I used to think that there was little difference in the training of either a 4 or 6 year but since going through almost all the MD and GS portion at least down here in good old shrevesville I now have come to believe that without the MD you are missing out on lots of training.
Sorry just my .02, but i am a very big advocate of the Medical Degree, i cant see why you wouldnt want the further training.
I do. I have a huge inferiority complex and lets face it....at the end of the day my MD makes me feel like the bulge in my pants is that much bigger....
Ok seriously....I learned quite a bit in med school and think that the MD adds to your training immensely. I think it kinda does it indirectly though, and yes it has everything to do with others perception. For instance, i'm doing my GS/anesthsia year right now and during these rotation months i know i am doing more and have more responsibility/autonomy/leeway than without the degree. During my SICU month i was put into a schedule with 2 second year GS residents, and we each had one week of nights in the unit and you literally "run" the unit at night by yourself(there is an attending somewhere in a call room i guess). You are responsible for placing all the lines in new trauma patients, placing chest tubes into patients who need it and running any codes on existing patients(actually nurses do most of the work), not to mention having to actually make real medical decisions on your own. I just have a hard time believing that without the MD you would ever get that kind of autonomy or leeway in training. And i dont care what anyone says, the repetition of having to make those types of decisions and perform those types of actions constantly ON YOUR OWN is what makes you comfortable with what you do. Just cause you round with the chief and watch he or she make decisions will never give you any comfort when your on your own.
I used to think that there was little difference in the training of either a 4 or 6 year but since going through almost all the MD and GS portion at least down here in good old shrevesville I now have come to believe that without the MD you are missing out on lots of training.
Sorry just my .02, but i am a very big advocate of the Medical Degree, i cant see why you wouldnt want the further training.
Didn't they just start awarding the MD recently? If so, the fact the most PDs and top surgeons don't have MDs doesn't really mean anything if the degree wasn't awarded until the 70's or later.
Ok seriously....I learned quite a bit in med school and think that the MD adds to your training immensely. I think it kinda does it indirectly though, and yes it has everything to do with others perception. For instance, i'm doing my GS/anesthsia year right now and during these rotation months i know i am doing more and have more responsibility/autonomy/leeway than without the degree. During my SICU month i was put into a schedule with 2 second year GS residents, and we each had one week of nights in the unit and you literally "run" the unit at night by yourself(there is an attending somewhere in a call room i guess). You are responsible for placing all the lines in new trauma patients, placing chest tubes into patients who need it and running any codes on existing patients(actually nurses do most of the work), not to mention having to actually make real medical decisions on your own. I just have a hard time believing that without the MD you would ever get that kind of autonomy or leeway in training. And i dont care what anyone says, the repetition of having to make those types of decisions and perform those types of actions constantly ON YOUR OWN is what makes you comfortable with what you do. Just cause you round with the chief and watch he or she make decisions will never give you any comfort when your on your own.
I used to think that there was little difference in the training of either a 4 or 6 year but since going through almost all the MD and GS portion at least down here in good old shrevesville I now have come to believe that without the MD you are missing out on lots of training.
Sorry just my .02, but i am a very big advocate of the Medical Degree, i cant see why you wouldnt want the further training.
Exactly. In 20 years, most leaders in the field and academics will have the MD. If not, I will be back on this thread in 2028 to eat crow.
the MD is purely for hospital politics and insurance billing.
and the 4-year residents spend more time actually doing surgery.
Honestly this argument is pointless. There are many OMS with an MD that never use it. The issue is not having an MD or not, the real issue is the lack of interest of many OMS in integrating themselves in the hospital setting. Unlike other surgical areas, as an OMS you can be in private and never step foot inside of a hospital. In ortho, neurosurgery, plastics, etc...the kinds of cases they do requires that they are part of a hospital and not isolate themself as most OMS have in private practice. What the field needs is not more OMS with MDs or fellowships, what it needs is more OMS who are willing to affiliate with teaching programs, and their local hospital taking trauma call. What's interesting is 5 out of the 6 attendings that won FEDA awards (Faculty Education Development Awards) do not have an MD, which goes to show that the future of OMS still lies with surgeons without MDs. Being that the majority of Chairs and PDs of OMS programs do not hold an MD is proof that the degree is not doing much for the specialty. The respect OMS has gained in hospitals did not happen from switching to MD tracks, it happend because of the pioneers (e.g., Fonseca, Ellis, Marx, Assael, Tucker, Haug, Kent, Block, Laskin, etc...) that were in the trenches and not abadoning their specialty to make $$$ in 100% private practice. So the take home message is MD or no-MD doesn't make a difference, what is the most important is what you make of your training and career. All the surgeons I listed above do not have an MD and I think its safe to say that most of us would be lucky to have half the skills they have and accomplish 10% of what they've accomplished.