Current PhD Student

Cerebritus · Jan 21, 2008

Hey everyone. I'm currently a year PhD student in the biosciences. The repetitive dullness of experimental work and the knowledge that my work is of little practical use for humanity is turning me cynical. A pragmatist and idealist at heart, I feel like I am wasting my time. I am questioning what made me decide to give up my dream to study medicine and instead opt for grad school.

One issue was that by my junior year I felt hopelessly behind in developing a strong profile for admission. I didn't around to taking ochem/physics sequences until my junior year. In addition, my only clinical experience had been a single day of shadowing. Instead of considering applying a year late, I gave up. The other issue is that I have a traditional "scientific" personality, by which I mean my demeanor tends to be very serious and unless I am familiar with a person I am not good at making small talk. However, in my previous volunteering and teaching experiences I have always gotten a kick when I am able to help someone. I would like to be able to use my abilities to help people face to face on a daily basis. The MCAT and clinical experiences are deficiencies I can easily take care of, and my grades are definitely sufficient for most programs. But of course my personality is not going to change -- is that going to be a stumbling block in terms of LORs / interviews? Any tips on how to compensate? What sort of specialities does a shy/quiet person tend to fit into best?

Also... who should write my LORs? I have one science professor from my UG that I had a good relationship with and I feel could write me a great letter. I'll be waiting another year to apply, so by then my work will hopefully be in a good place and my PI will be willing (it's what keeps me motivated to keep putting in 50-60 hr weeks at this point). Should I talk to my UG's premed committee to see what I have to do to get a letter from them? Will I need any other letters?

Thank you for considering my post and know that I will be enormously grateful for any advice/knowledge you can share.

chemphd · Jan 21, 2008

Hi Cerebritus,

There are a bunch of PhD people on here- students, people who are already PhD's etc. I'm currently finishing up (5th year) in chemistry (but do mostly biology).
Basically, you can do a lot to make up your "deficiencies." Go find someone to shadow. Start volunteering somewhere (hospital, nursing home, hospice, etc.).

I think there are plenty of places where shy people can fit in. One of the good things about being a physician from that standpoint is that a lot of your interactions (depending on specialty, etc.) will be with one or two people at a time. Only you know if it'll be a problem in interviews, but that's where practiciing can come in handy.

As far as LOR's, I asked a German prof. from undergrad, my chem prof. from undergrad, a doctor I shadowed (he offered to write me a letter), my PI, and a prof. here I've taught with a lot. Because you've been out of school (undergrad) a little while, you can probably just call the schools, tell them that, and they'll waive the premed committee letter requirement. That's what happened in my case.

I'm sure there are plenty of other people who can put their 2 cents in as well.

Good luck

Beast11 · Jan 21, 2008

Cerebritus said:
Hey everyone. I'm currently a year PhD student in the biosciences. The repetitive dullness of experimental work and the knowledge that my work is of little practical use for humanity is turning me cynical. A pragmatist and idealist at heart, I feel like I am wasting my time. I am questioning what made me decide to give up my dream to study medicine and instead opt for grad school.

One issue was that by my junior year I felt hopelessly behind in developing a strong profile for admission. I didn't around to taking ochem/physics sequences until my junior year. In addition, my only clinical experience had been a single day of shadowing. Instead of considering applying a year late, I gave up. The other issue is that I have a traditional "scientific" personality, by which I mean my demeanor tends to be very serious and unless I am familiar with a person I am not good at making small talk. However, in my previous volunteering and teaching experiences I have always gotten a kick when I am able to help someone. I would like to be able to use my abilities to help people face to face on a daily basis. The MCAT and clinical experiences are deficiencies I can easily take care of, and my grades are definitely sufficient for most programs. But of course my personality is not going to change -- is that going to be a stumbling block in terms of LORs / interviews? Any tips on how to compensate? What sort of specialities does a shy/quiet person tend to fit into best?

Also... who should write my LORs? I have one science professor from my UG that I had a good relationship with and I feel could write me a great letter. I'll be waiting another year to apply, so by then my work will hopefully be in a good place and my PI will be willing (it's what keeps me motivated to keep putting in 50-60 hr weeks at this point). Should I talk to my UG's premed committee to see what I have to do to get a letter from them? Will I need any other letters?

Thank you for considering my post and know that I will be enormously grateful for any advice/knowledge you can share.

This has been debated before-and I tend to agree... It is imperative that you give a semblance of finishing a program-quitting looks bad. You didn't state your relative completion of your Ph.D.; if you are only a year in, then it is reasonable to finish with a masters. (a master's would look reasonable as an E.C. for the medical app. process) You can either choose thesis or non-thesis option, and be done relatively soon. Otherwise, in for a penny, in for a pound, and you really should spend years for the Ph.D.

I think that the ADCOMS would reasonably expect your graduate advisor to write a letter (many require it). This is where the thesis/non thesis option may factor (if you have a bad relationship with your advisor) Be proactive-tell your advisor of your plans, and that you need a strong letter. If you have problems, then make sure that you can get a semblance of a committee letter-look for a pre-med committee at your university and contact them, ensure that they are aware of your efforts, etc. so that the letters would be put in the best light. If your advisor is being somewhat obstinate (wants more work to get the letter, will not recognize not going into his career, etc.) then it is very important that you establish yourself. To me, this means a first authored publication (nothing else carries the weight) since this shows evidence of effort. Also, you should be within your rights to ask any letter writer to write a strong letter, and if they aver, then DO NOT force the issue. A weak or bad letter is a kiss of death, so it is up to you to work to get great letters.

You can overcome shyness, but it is something you need to work on. Don't make excuses about being shy.

Good luck

GatorPhD · Jan 23, 2008

I finished a Ph.D. in Math last August and am getting ready to go do post-bac work this summer. In my opinion, Beast11 gave excellent advice. With no more to go on than you gave, Beast is spot on.

For LORs, if you're anywhere beyond one or two semesters into grad school, then not getting a letter of rec from your advisor is absurd. I can't help but think that the ADCOMs would think so too. It just doesn't make sense to be an indentured servant/slave/biatch to a professor for several years and not take advantage of this person to write you a letter. Surely, if you finished your Ph.D., they would be the first person you would ask for a letter when applying for Post-docs or Asst. Prof. positions! I have also worked for the Air Force for 5 years, so my boss wrote another letter for me. Were it not for that, I would have asked another committee member for a letter.

As for being shy, I would guess that you pretty much have to just get over it. I'm not so shy, so I'm no expert. I would suggest taking a speech class, join a toastmaster's club, or just try to be more outgoing.

Please let me know if I can answer any other question. If not, just listen to Beast11.

Thanks!!!

Cerebritus · Jan 25, 2008

Thanks for the terrific advice. I'm two and a half years into grad school and hope to start med school fall '10, so if I tell myself I WILL finish by then it should be doable. If not, I'll almost certainly have 2-3 primary authors by the time I apply, so at least they'll know I don't suck

I really liked what Beast11 said: "Don't make excuses about being shy." Of course I can work on it, and I think I should have enough strengths as an overall person that that shouldn't stop me from getting into med school and becoming a great doctor.

Thanks again and good luck with your endeavors!

gman33 · Jan 25, 2008

You said you didn't feel like you had a strong app after your junior year.
How is your UG GPA and science GPA?
Just asking, because your PhD won't make up for a weak UG GPA. If needed, you may want to take some UG classes to boost your numbers. Do a search on grad students applying to med school if you need more info.

PhDtoMD · Feb 7, 2008

Great post! I am also currently a PhD student (finishing up my 3rd year) and I would like to apply to med school after I'm finished (hopefully enter class of 2010). I am really considering about quitting and going to a post bacc program to raise my UG grades. But from the posts above, it looks like it's highly discouraged.

My UG GPA is pretty low (3.0) and my grad school grades are not any better. I've spoken with some admission counselors at a couple med schools and they suggest that i take some upper class UG classes as well as keep up my grad school grades. I'm not sure how important grad school grades are in this whole process. What if I take undergrad classes, do well, but don't raise my grad school gpa. Will that hurt me? Am I totally out of luck?

Does it matter which university you get your PhD from?

Thanks guys!

njbmd · Feb 7, 2008

Cerebritus said:
Hey everyone. I'm currently a year PhD student in the biosciences. The repetitive dullness of experimental work and the knowledge that my work is of little practical use for humanity is turning me cynical. A pragmatist and idealist at heart, I feel like I am wasting my time. I am questioning what made me decide to give up my dream to study medicine and instead opt for grad school.

One issue was that by my junior year I felt hopelessly behind in developing a strong profile for admission. I didn't around to taking ochem/physics sequences until my junior year. In addition, my only clinical experience had been a single day of shadowing. Instead of considering applying a year late, I gave up. The other issue is that I have a traditional "scientific" personality, by which I mean my demeanor tends to be very serious and unless I am familiar with a person I am not good at making small talk. However, in my previous volunteering and teaching experiences I have always gotten a kick when I am able to help someone. I would like to be able to use my abilities to help people face to face on a daily basis. The MCAT and clinical experiences are deficiencies I can easily take care of, and my grades are definitely sufficient for most programs. But of course my personality is not going to change -- is that going to be a stumbling block in terms of LORs / interviews? Any tips on how to compensate? What sort of specialities does a shy/quiet person tend to fit into best?

Also... who should write my LORs? I have one science professor from my UG that I had a good relationship with and I feel could write me a great letter. I'll be waiting another year to apply, so by then my work will hopefully be in a good place and my PI will be willing (it's what keeps me motivated to keep putting in 50-60 hr weeks at this point). Should I talk to my UG's premed committee to see what I have to do to get a letter from them? Will I need any other letters?

Thank you for considering my post and know that I will be enormously grateful for any advice/knowledge you can share.

My letters of recommendation came from my postdoc mentor and from the chairman of my Ph.D committee and from a cardiologist that I had done research with. In short, anyone who knows you and your work well that has some academic rank, can write a letter of recommendation for you. I didn't have any of my undergraduate professors write letters for me.

Also be aware that you might have to submit a letter from your Ph.D adviser that states that you will be completing your degree before matriculation into medical school. Some schools (two that I applied to ) required this letter before considering my application. If your Ph.D adviser is one of your letter writers then this can be addressed in their LOR for you.

Also be aware that your uGPA is the main GPA for medical school acceptance. Graduate GPA is ranked about the same as an extracurricular activity. As long as you know this, let your uGPA be a guiding factor when you are looking at schools to apply to. Apply to a broad range if your uGPA is a bit lower than the average uGPA of matriculants (3.65).

Don't even consider specialties until you have achieved medical school acceptance. Specialty choice is definitely not personality-driven but interest and medical school performance driven. Concentrate your efforts on getting in and then choose a specialty once you have had some clinical experience as a medical student. Good luck!

QofQuimica · Feb 7, 2008

PhDtoMD said:
Great post! I am also currently a PhD student (finishing up my 3rd year) and I would like to apply to med school after I'm finished (hopefully enter class of 2010). I am really considering about quitting and going to a post bacc program to raise my UG grades. But from the posts above, it looks like it's highly discouraged.

You've taken quals already, I assume? In that case, yes, definitely stay and finish your PhD. You've already gotten through the worst part of grad school.

My UG GPA is pretty low (3.0) and my grad school grades are not any better. I've spoken with some admission counselors at a couple med schools and they suggest that i take some upper class UG classes as well as keep up my grad school grades. I'm not sure how important grad school grades are in this whole process. What if I take undergrad classes, do well, but don't raise my grad school gpa. Will that hurt me? Am I totally out of luck?

No one is ever "totally out of luck," but getting into med school is much harder than getting into grad school. You need a commensurately much stronger academic record. At this point, I wouldn't worry too much about your grad school grades. As long as you've maintained a 3.0 and are not on academic probation, your grad grades won't be very relevant. Your UG GPA, on the other hand, is a serious handicap. I agree that you will probably need to take some UG coursework to beef it up. As for when to take it, that will depend on you. Are you able to handle taking a course or two along with a bunch of gunner premed undergrads, all while continuing to perform in the lab, TA, and any other duties required of you? Be realistic. If you know that you can't pull As in your post-bac courses without your grad school performance suffering, then finish your PhD first, and take a year of full-time UG work after you graduate.

Does it matter which university you get your PhD from?

In my experience, no. You would do well to have some pubs, though, so it doesn't look like you're just hopping around from degree to degree. My school definitely looks at the pub records of PhD-to-MD applicants.

DOCTORSAIB · Feb 7, 2008

Also please keep in mind that MD (DO)/PhD applicants get some of the best interviews for residency! Many top programs in competitive residencies (Plastics, Derm, Rad Onc, Ophtho, Rads) absolutely LOVE MD (DO)/PhD applicants. Who wouldn't? They're often very intelligent and are much more likely to stay in academics vs cashing $$$ in private practice.

Just something to think about if you're considering jumping ship on your PhD program.

G'luck to you guys!

netminder · Feb 7, 2008

Really? Excellent advice -- good to know. Thanks.

Current PhD Student

Cerebritus

New Member

chemphd

Full Member

Beast11

Full Member

GatorPhD

Moon River!!!

Cerebritus

New Member

gman33

Full Member

PhDtoMD

New Member

njbmd

QofQuimica

Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....

DOCTORSAIB

Ophtho or bust!

netminder

Full Member

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