School Psychologist

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Yeah, the EDS students in my program are pretty good with the assessment. I wouldn't trust them beyond basic counseling, though. they only get 2 counseling/intervention courses, and nothing on ebts or anything of that sort. Perhaps other school psych EDS programs are more balanced...

Originally Posted by FadedC

Well specialist degree students spend a lot of time being mentored outside of their classrooms too. Classroom work is only a part of their training as well, they also get most of their training through field work and interaction with other professionals. I think you may be over-estimating that difference. Being in a doctoral program and working side by side with specialist degree students, I can see the difference hands on.

As for counseling training, the question isn't whether a counseling student has the ability to get a solid assessment background. That is clearly the case. People from any program can get training beyond what is required. The question is what is baseline for the degree.

Ours are the same way. But then the same is also true at the doctoral level for us, we only get a minimal level of required counseling training and have to seek out extra electives/field work to get additional experience if that is what we are interested in. We are kind of like the opposite of the counseling students.

Originally Posted by aagman01

Yeah, the EDS students in my program are pretty good with the assessment. I wouldn't trust them beyond basic counseling, though. they only get 2 counseling/intervention courses, and nothing on ebts or anything of that sort. Perhaps other school psych EDS programs are more balanced...

Originally Posted by Pragma

Right- this is all news to me today. I never realized that an exemption had existed or that "school psychologists" did not, in most cases, have a doctorate degree.

Disappointing and scary, particularly if our first line of defense for detecting LD and other developmental problems is coming from folks without a doctorate or a postdoctoral assessment specialization, which would seem like a minimal standard to make a diagnosis in a school.

I think to say they are making a "diagnosis" is misleading. The whole purpose of school psychologist assessment is to see if a student qualifies for special education, which is mandated under federal guidelines. LD for special ed services is very different than going to a private practioner and getting assessed for LD. I have had many reports from private psychs who diagnose LD and other disabilities, but the student does not actually meet state standards under special ed law. School psychs do not diagnose anything. If a student needs some kind of diagnosis, they are deferred to a clincian. They simply test to see where the student is and if they meet any eligibility criteria for one of the categories of special ed.

I am a school psych and have 2 degrees - one in Educ. Psych and another in Counseling. Most of my 1100 hour internship for School Psych was devoted to assessment, as well as 4 advanced courses devoted to assessment.

Specialist level school psychs are not walking around pretending to have PhD's. Truth is school psychology is very specific to practice in the school setting only.

Originally Posted by urbanpsych

Specialist level school psychs are not walking around pretending to have PhD's. Truth is school psychology is very specific to practice in the school setting only.

You should go read the "School Neuropsychologist" thread then, since they are trying to do work reserved for fellowship-trained Ph.Ds.

Originally Posted by Therapist4Chnge

You should go read the "School Neuropsychologist" thread then, since they are trying to do work reserved for fellowship-trained Ph.Ds.

I was just saying from my point of view, my experience. I am sure there are some people out there who plump up their credentials.

But, my internship supervisor was a "real" neuropsych working in the school setting. He worked as a school psych part time, but also had a private practice. He really did have his PhD and neuropsych experience, so he could use the term. That being said, he still did not diagnose in the school setting, only in his private practice.

I am in a graduate program right now but I am more than likely going to enter into a school psychology program after graduation, either in Spring 13' or Fall 13'. I want to get a PhD but when I graduate I am not sure what state I will be working in (getting a MAT in Special Education) so I cannot determine if I will have to be in a specialist degree program or not, depending on the location of the position offered to me. I know I would rather work in hospitals or in private practice rather than a school. I wanted to know if you all were able to work while you completed you MA, EdS or PhD? Was it hard to find an internship placement? Was it difficult to find a position once you graduated? Could I work in a hospital with a specialist degree or would I need a doctorate degree? Lastly, with programs I have this school I am dying to go to which is accredited but I am not sure of the prestige of the school, is prestige important to employers or is the credentials more important (specialist program)?

You definitely need a PhD if you want to work in a hospital. Some people work in the first year or two of their program but you will eventually need to devote time to field work during the time you would otherwise be working. In my experience, field assignments in schools are ridiculously easy to get....school psychologists are rare and most places are thrilled to have a student working with them. If you want to work outside of a school then you face more competition from clinical psychologists though there are positions for which school psych people are preferred. Not sure how hard it is to find a position after graduation, in general we are in very short supply, so employment opportunities are good, but it can depend on the location. And finally I'd worry more about accreditation then reputation.There aren't really any rankings for school psych programs or anything like that.

Originally Posted by Blush

I am in a graduate program right now but I am more than likely going to enter into a school psychology program after graduation, either in Spring 13' or Fall 13'. I want to get a PhD but when I graduate I am not sure what state I will be working in (getting a MAT in Special Education) so I can not determine if I will have to be in a specialist degree program. I know I would rather work in hospitals or in private practice rather than a school. I wanted to know if you all were able to work while you completed you MA, EdS or PhD? Was it hard to find internship placements? Was it difficult to find a position once you graduated? Could I work in a hospital with a specialist degree or would I need a doctorate degree? Lastly, with programs I have this school I am dying to go to which is accredited but I am not sure of the prestige of the school, is prestige important to employers or is the credentials more important (specialist program)?

Originally Posted by FadedC

in general we are in very short supply, so employment opportunities are good, but it can depend on the location. And finally I'd worry more about accreditation then reputation.There aren't really any rankings for school psych programs or anything like that.

This is a great forum/thread, appreciate all the information provided here. Just wondering, regarding "we are in short supply" are you referring to only PhD school pychs, or both PhD & Specialist-level school psychs?

Also, is there any data on the job prospects for school psychs by state/region? From what Ive noticed it seems that there is somewhat of an over-supply in CA & NY... might be wrong though.

All school psychologists are in support supply. Although it's my understanding that school psychology professors are in even shorter supply, and you'd need a phd for that.

You could probably find salary data by state somewhere with a search, not sure about employment/supply. I know there tends to be an oversupply of psychologists in general in NY and CA.I think that's less true for school psychologists, but I'm sure there are still more there then other states. In NYC my understanding is that budget cuts more then oversupply can make it a little more difficult to find work. But even there I think we still have it much better then other fields.

Originally Posted by sabaijae

This is a great forum/thread, appreciate all the information provided here. Just wondering, regarding "we are in short supply" are you referring to only PhD school pychs, or both PhD & Specialist-level school psychs?

Also, is there any data on the job prospects for school psychs by state/region? From what Ive noticed it seems that there is somewhat of an over-supply in CA & NY... might be wrong though.

So, going back to the issue I asked about earlier regarding competitiveness in ma/specialist programs...

What should I really focus on when completing my application? My GPA is a 3.33 and the program doesn't require a GRE. They have a lot of student presentations and publications though. So should I focus on proving that I am a good researcher or should I more lean towards my experience working with children? Obviously I will include both but I have done a lot of research on the topic and I'm still confused about what exactly these programs look for. Since school is not in session right now it makes it even harder because I am not able to get in contact with anyone at the program.
Thanks to anyone who can provide some insight.

Originally Posted by audchik

So, going back to the issue I asked about earlier regarding competitiveness in ma/specialist programs...

What should I really focus on when completing my application? My GPA is a 3.33 and the program doesn't require a GRE. They have a lot of student presentations and publications though. So should I focus on proving that I am a good researcher or should I more lean towards my experience working with children? Obviously I will include both but I have done a lot of research on the topic and I'm still confused about what exactly these programs look for. Since school is not in session right now it makes it even harder because I am not able to get in contact with anyone at the program.
Thanks to anyone who can provide some insight.

Good questions. *bump*

I hadn't realized you needed a PhD to work outside of a school setting. I know a few years ago when I looked at school psychology as an option, there were a lot of out of work school psychologist saying they could not find a job. Now it seems there is a plethora of jobs, I'm wondering when the shift happened that there are now more openings. Another concern of mine was the pay. What is the typical starting salary? I have consistently seen $45,000 and sometimes less, which seems a little low given the education requirements and the responsibility of the position.

Originally Posted by FadedC

All school psychologists are in [short] supply. Although it's my understanding that school psychology professors are in even shorter supply, and you'd need a phd for that.

This is not true everywhere. There are some markets that are saturated, so it is important for students to do their due diligence and not just assume a job will be waiting for them. I know the market in S. FL has really slowed down for jobs, and even practica placements are not as plentiful. Many school districts have required their school psychologists to cover more schools because they can't afford to hire another school psychologist.

Originally Posted by Blush

I hadn't realized you needed a PhD to work outside of a school setting.

In some states they allow non-doctoral school psychologists to practice independantly outside of the school system, though the majority still acknowledge the need for scope of practice limitations.

Starting salaries for school psychologists vary considerably by state, and it's not just a cost of living thing. 45K is probably not such an uncommon salary for specialist degree school psychologists starting out though. Keep in mind that it's only a 200 day contract.

Supply and demand will always fluctuate a bit in school psych as budgets get cut and people retire. As T4C says, it's good to be aware of the situation where you plan to practice.

Originally Posted by Blush

I hadn't realized you needed a PhD to work outside of a school setting. I know a few years ago when I looked at school psychology as an option, there were a lot of out of work school psychologist saying they could not find a job. Now it seems there is a plethora of jobs, I'm wondering when the shift happened that there are now more openings. Another concern of mine was the pay. What is the typical starting salary? I have consistently seen $45,000 and sometimes less, which seems a little low given the education requirements and the responsibility of the position.

I'm not sure there's an easy answer there. Reseach is usually not emphasized in a specialist degree programs, but the fact that you have a research background will still be considered a plus. Meanwhile experience working with children shows some commitment to the field, but doesn't mean you'll be a good student/psychologist. So you'll have to use your judgement, and maybe consider going for a balanced approach.

Originally Posted by audchik

So, going back to the issue I asked about earlier regarding competitiveness in ma/specialist programs...

What should I really focus on when completing my application? My GPA is a 3.33 and the program doesn't require a GRE. They have a lot of student presentations and publications though. So should I focus on proving that I am a good researcher or should I more lean towards my experience working with children? Obviously I will include both but I have done a lot of research on the topic and I'm still confused about what exactly these programs look for. Since school is not in session right now it makes it even harder because I am not able to get in contact with anyone at the program.
Thanks to anyone who can provide some insight.

This is a bit (perhaps very) off-topic, but just wondering if anyone has information on school admin/employee tenure by state? I've tried a search and found a document about 18 states that recently changed their tenure/contracts. It's a bit difficult to decipher such jargon, just wondering if there's a different document out there providing state-by-state info ...

Hi,

I am looking for Ed.S School Psychology program that does not require/waives the GRE. So far, I've only found Seattle University -- which waives the GRE if you have previously earned a master degree with at least a 3.25 GPA. Does anyone know of any other programs?

Originally Posted by andruw000

Hi,

I am looking for Ed.S School Psychology program that does not require/waives the GRE. So far, I've only found Seattle University -- which waives the GRE if you have previously earned a master degree with at least a 3.25 GPA. Does anyone know of any other programs?

It is often a red flag if a program does not require the GRE, whether it is for school, counseling, or clinical psychology. Some of the more fringe (bad) programs waive this requirement, so definitely choose wisely.

Originally Posted by FadedC

I'm not sure there's an easy answer there. Reseach is usually not emphasized in a specialist degree programs, but the fact that you have a research background will still be considered a plus. Meanwhile experience working with children shows some commitment to the field, but doesn't mean you'll be a good student/psychologist. So you'll have to use your judgement, and maybe consider going for a balanced approach.

Thanks for the input. I'm still confused about what types of qualifications are most looked for in these programs though. A lot of programs say they want you to have experience working in the public school system. I don't see how very many people would have that experience though unless they have been teachers. You said that research isn't emphasized and that experience with children isn't demonstrative of being a good student or psychologist. What *is* emphasized?

If I don't get in this year, I'm not sure what I will be able to do to improve my chances for the following year. With clinical psych the answers are more straight-forward but it doesn't seem to be the case with school unless I'm missing something.

Originally Posted by audchik

Thanks for the input. I'm still confused about what types of qualifications are most looked for in these programs though. A lot of programs say they want you to have experience working in the public school system. I don't see how very many people would have that experience though unless they have been teachers. You said that research isn't emphasized and that experience with children isn't demonstrative of being a good student or psychologist. What *is* emphasized?

If I don't get in this year, I'm not sure what I will be able to do to improve my chances for the following year. With clinical psych the answers are more straight-forward but it doesn't seem to be the case with school unless I'm missing something.

Depending on the state that you're in, you can work as a subordinate to a school psychologist (i.e., be supervised by the school psychologist or, sometimes, another licensed psychologist) and get that kind of experience. Maybe you should contact a school psychologist in your area and find out what s/he did to get into grad school and get her/his job?

I have heard there are some masters/EDS programs that do not require the GREs. I would be careful, though. When I was applying to doctoral programs in the NYC area, I applied to a non-competitive EDS program as a backup. This program was at a VERY non-competitive school (Kean University) and, from the "feel" I got during interview, not a very cohesive or strong grad program either. Even that school required the GREs. So I would be careful about the quality of any program that does not require the GREs.

.

Originally Posted by andruw000

Hi,

I am looking for Ed.S School Psychology program that does not require/waives the GRE. So far, I've only found Seattle University -- which waives the GRE if you have previously earned a master degree with at least a 3.25 GPA. Does anyone know of any other programs?

Here is my background. Keep in mind I'm in a PhD program, not a masters program. I acquired teaching/school experiences by (a) completing the teacher education program in undergrad, (b) completing a teaching experience in the Americorps part-time over two summers, and (c) teaching English abroad in China for a year. I was also fairly active on the research side. I had a co-publication with my advisor in a major journal, presented two poster presentations at conferences, and had other sorts of experiences that may have helped a bit (a paid position in my advisors personality lab, a job as an autism line therapist in undergrad, and a few other things).

I have/had friends in the EDS program who worked as autism line therapists, teachers aid, worked at a crisis line, worked in after school programs, and did other things that got them experience with children/adolescents. Also, even if your applying for an EDS, professors LOVE folks with research background (it helps validate their chosen career, i think ) . There are plenty of ways to get experience with children/adolescents without being a formal "teacher".


QUOTE=audchik;12017737]Thanks for the input. I'm still confused about what types of qualifications are most looked for in these programs though. A lot of programs say they want you to have experience working in the public school system. I don't see how very many people would have that experience though unless they have been teachers. You said that research isn't emphasized and that experience with children isn't demonstrative of being a good student or psychologist. What *is* emphasized?

If I don't get in this year, I'm not sure what I will be able to do to improve my chances for the following year. With clinical psych the answers are more straight-forward but it doesn't seem to be the case with school unless I'm missing something. [/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by aagman01

and (c) teaching English abroad in China for a year.

I'm currently teaching at an international school here in China. The Specialist/MA program Ive been accepted to seemed to really appreciate the fact that I have teaching experience. If you're looking for teaching/school experience, there are tons of open positions over here. Although if you've never lived/worked in a developing country or in Asia, you might face a good deal of culture shock. I would also try to stick with international schools (if possible) ...

Originally Posted by aagman01

Here is my background. Keep in mind I'm in a PhD program, not a masters program. I acquired teaching/school experiences by (a) completing the teacher education program in undergrad, (b) completing a teaching experience in the Americorps part-time over two summers, and (c) teaching English abroad in China for a year. I was also fairly active on the research side. I had a co-publication with my advisor in a major journal, presented two poster presentations at conferences, and had other sorts of experiences that may have helped a bit (a paid position in my advisors personality lab, a job as an autism line therapist in undergrad, and a few other things).

I have/had friends in the EDS program who worked as autism line therapists, teachers aid, worked at a crisis line, worked in after school programs, and did other things that got them experience with children/adolescents. Also, even if your applying for an EDS, professors LOVE folks with research background (it helps validate their chosen career, i think ) . There are plenty of ways to get experience with children/adolescents without being a formal "teacher".

Ok, that's good to hear. I do have a lot of experience with adolescents and children (crisis line, internships, tutoring type gigs). I don't have publications or presentations but I have volunteered for several research labs so perhaps I can play that up as well.

The program I'm applying to doesn't require the GRE but it doesn't seem to be low quality. It is a state school and the competition is 75 applicants for 10 slots. Also very productive in research. It is odd that they don't require the GRE but is that necessarily a bad thing? Are there any other clues that would speak to the quality of the program?

I've never really found any objective way to assess school psych program quality, it's something I've always wondered about. My own program does not require the GRE for specialist degree students, and it's at a pretty highly ranked university, but I'm not sure how to specifically evaluate the school psych program there. During interviews it has seemed like other professionals have a very positive view towards my program, but that's a pretty subjective observation.

Originally Posted by audchik

The program I'm applying to doesn't require the GRE but it doesn't seem to be low quality. It is a state school and the competition is 75 applicants for 10 slots. Also very productive in research. It is odd that they don't require the GRE but is that necessarily a bad thing? Are there any other clues that would speak to the quality of the program?

Originally Posted by sicologia

I never said doctoral school psychs don't work in the schools. If you look at the numbers across the country, it just so happens that the majority are not PhDs and PsyDs.

.

That is because there are more certified psychologist at the master's level. There are more licensing programs at the masters level. So it stands to reason that there would be more master's level school psychologists in the schools because there are more training programs. Master's level school psychologists can really only work in the school. A school psychologist with a PhD can work in a school, counseling, community, or hospital setting. So between there being more options for a PhD school psychologist and fewer of them it makes sense that there would be more master's level school psychologists in the schools. PhD school psychologists are not overqualified to be there though. In fact, in the district I work in they provide a unique service because they can provide group and individual therapy to children with emotional and behavioral problems in the schools whereas there are not as many opportunities like that for a master's level school psychologist.

If you like kids (especially screaming, biting, kicking, running, cursing ones) then school psychology is for you. You will also see children with all ranges of learning disabilities as well as children on the autism spectrum. I am working in the schools right now (not as a school psychologist) but I am currently applying for PhD programs for school psych. I want to work with the behaviorally challenged and emotionally disturbed children. I am also very interested in autism.

Hope this helps

I'm pretty sure this has been brought up already, but I was wondering if there are any School Psychology program rankings out?

Also, I'm specifically looking for ranking of programs (MA & Specialist) in Texas, mainly: Texas A&M-Commerce, Texas State University, University of Houston-Clear Lake, and Trinity University. If anyone can share knowledge about or perhaps their experience with any of these programs, I'd really appreciate it.

Originally Posted by sabaijae

I'm pretty sure this has been brought up already, but I was wondering if there are any School Psychology program rankings out?.

There are no rankings. The best way to evaluate a program is to ask around about their general reputation, find out about their 'typical' accepted student (GPA, GRE, etc), and see if they have a consistant history of placing people into the types of positions that you desire.

I have heard Texas A&M is good, though the person I met was from their main campus (and in the doctoral program). Ask around the local school system/wherever you want to work, and see who they hire. Some school systems will actively recruit out of certain programs.

Originally Posted by sabaijae

I'm pretty sure this has been brought up already, but I was wondering if there are any School Psychology program rankings out?

Also, I'm specifically looking for ranking of programs (MA & Specialist) in Texas, mainly: Texas A&M-Commerce, Texas State University, University of Houston-Clear Lake, and Trinity University. If anyone can share knowledge about or perhaps their experience with any of these programs, I'd really appreciate it.

Yeah, you don't need rankings, just ask the faculty and students at these programs questions about the quality of the coursework, practicum, and financial aid. Depending on your interests, some programs may fit you better than other. For example, some programs offer specialized experience in early childhood or autistic populations. What type of training do they provide in more modern models of service delivery (i.e. RtI)? Are any of the faculty conducting grant-funded research?

Okay, thanks for the info T4C & coldsweat. The students I've been able to track down and ask questions regarding some of the programs have nothing but glowing/enthusiastic statements about their programs. Some programs have decent funding, etc, while only a few have Profs engaged in lots of research. None really have all of the above. Meh...

Originally Posted by sabaijae

Okay, thanks for the info T4C & coldsweat. The students I've been able to track down and ask questions regarding some of the programs have nothing but glowing/enthusiastic statements about their programs. Some programs have decent funding, etc, while only a few have Profs engaged in lots of research. None really have all of the above. Meh...

Finding funding at the master's level is going to be significantly more difficult, yes. That could be a huge selling point for a program, but if it were me, I wouldn't necessarily expect to find it many places.

I've never even heard of most of those schools you mentioned. But the main Texas A&M branch (College Station or something like that I think its called) has a very strong bilingual/multicultural focused school psych program. I heard they have grant funding even for masters students (if you are bilingual). Also, UT Austin, obviously, has a very strong program, both in terms of clinical trianing and research. However, I have also heard many doctoral students are NOT funded there, so be careful!

Originally Posted by coldsweat

Yeah, you don't need rankings, just ask the faculty and students at these programs questions about the quality of the coursework, practicum, and financial aid. Depending on your interests, some programs may fit you better than other. For example, some programs offer specialized experience in early childhood or autistic populations. What type of training do they provide in more modern models of service delivery (i.e. RtI)? Are any of the faculty conducting grant-funded research?

Originally Posted by AcronymAllergy

Finding funding at the master's level is going to be significantly more difficult, yes. That could be a huge selling point for a program, but if it were me, I wouldn't necessarily expect to find it many places.

Trinity seems to have good funding through 'assistantships'. Not sure how common this is at the MA level:

http://www.trinity.edu/departments/e...%202010-11.pdf

Read the blog "Notes From A School Psychologist."

Thanks. I'd like to but it's blocked here in China! Even with the proxy I'm using ...

Also, I've been trying to find out just how dangerous this field can be? It's got me thinking with the recent school shootings in Oakland.

So, just wondering if any experienced school psychs can share their experiences about possible dangers of working as a school psych? Thanks!

Much like plane crashes, school shootings are horrible tragic events which are statistically so unlikely to happen to you that they should never factor into your plans. No matter what you do or what job you have, there will always be that remote outside chance that something awful will happen to you. I don't think that's any more true in the schools then anywhere else.

Originally Posted by sabaijae

Thanks. I'd like to but it's blocked here in China! Even with the proxy I'm using ...

Also, I've been trying to find out just how dangerous this field can be? It's got me thinking with the recent school shootings in Oakland.

So, just wondering if any experienced school psychs can share their experiences about possible dangers of working as a school psych? Thanks!