Pseudophedrine, should it be a controlled substance?????

I'll vote yes. Nothing worse than taking 2 minutes to enter all of someones info only to spend 5 minutes explaining that they are over the monthly limit...meanwhile 8 people are behind them in line.

PharmaTope said:

if we are going by "abuse potential".

there seems to be such a worry about meth labs that this is now behind the counter. what do you think? i think it takes significant time away from other pharmacy issues to spend 5 minutes doing a sudafed sale.

if they are going to make anabolic steroids controlled, then this needs to be controlled in my opinion.

what do you think?

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what state are you in? Our PSE sales are in the front store.

The DEA cops just came and looked through our log a few weeks ago. They commented on how there were a lot of customers from out of state. Customers will cross state lines to buy it, because the system lacks control. The cops said that they can't do anything about the people living in other states, but there should be a national registry coming soon.

Our "patron" customers like the 24hr Sudafed.

i dont think it should be a controlled substance because:
1) if it becomes controlled, that means people with allergies have to get rx slips from a doctor? you are wasting both the doctors, patients, and the pharmacists' (see next point) precious time to help more patients.
2) it does 5 minutes for a clerk to fill out the log. it takes 20 minutes to process, count, and pharmacist's check on the "controlled" substance.
3) not all people abused PSE products. only some people do that.

confettiflyer said:

what state are you in? Our PSE sales are in the front store.

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hmm, i think california laws require pse to be back at the pharmacy. i work in california.

islander01 said:

hmm, i think california laws require pse to be back at the pharmacy. i work in california.

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really? i'll check when i get back in on Monday. I was reading the memo today randomly and it had a breakdown of what states have front store PSE sales and what have them in the pharmacy. Could have sworn CA was on the front store list (if it isn't, my store's in trouble).

and no PSE shouldn't be C-II...it's not addicting unto itself and you gotta do quite a bit of distilling/processing to turn it into meth.

It's like controlling access to fertilizer because people can turn those into bombs.

confettiflyer said:

and no PSE shouldn't be C-II...it's not addicting unto itself and you gotta do quite a bit of distilling/processing to turn it into meth.

It's like controlling access to fertilizer because people can turn those into bombs.

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Well, there's no way it becomes a C-II. I'm not crazy of it becoming any class though.

PharmaTope said:

if we are going by "abuse potential".

there seems to be such a worry about meth labs that this is now behind the counter. what do you think? i think it takes significant time away from other pharmacy issues to spend 5 minutes doing a sudafed sale.

if they are going to make anabolic steroids controlled, then this needs to be controlled in my opinion.

what do you think?

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I don't think that it should be controlled, however, I think some of the laws should be stricter, and that there should be a more nation wide registry of PSE sells. I live in a border county and while KY is becoming stricter and will have an elecrtonic sells log soon, however other states have not followed our lead, so we have people that come from out of state to buy PSE but also have a huge problem with people going out of the state to buy their PSE. On a personal note, I have seen the hazards of Meth labs. My dad (he is also a firefighter) was on a structure fire that wasd a meth lab explosion. By the time they found out one of his buddies had already went down and it was found that he had chemical pneumonia. My dad had to be in observation at the hospital and undergo treatment to prevent chemical pneumonia. I have saw how it hurts Fire and EMS workers. Also, the fire department had to replace some of the gear that could not be deconed and they had just bought the gear they had to replaced. Its dangerous stuff, and any step to shut down meth labs, is a great one.

An OTC controlled substance??

Make it a legend item...then worry about making it a controlled substance.

No way, it would waste so much more time to fill the prescription then it does to enter in the log book. It would easily add 10 scripts to our daily count which would translate to a extra 30 minutes of work daily (giving it takes 3min to fill an RX). We don't have that many potential looking meth makers (I can remember maybe 3-5 since the PSE rules were started)

SpirivaSunrise said:

Well, there's no way it becomes a C-II. I'm not crazy of it becoming any class though.

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ok i misread the thread, haha. But no I think it shouldn't be controlled. Hell, I think you should be able to get some morphine, marijuana, and vicodin from a vending machine the way you can buy lotto tickets, ipods, and books now.

Okay, maybe not morphine, but at least some amphetamine salts in there.

:::waits for DEA to come knocking on my door:::

confettiflyer said:

ok i misread the thread, haha. But no I think it shouldn't be controlled. Hell, I think you should be able to get some morphine, marijuana, and vicodin from a vending machine the way you can buy lotto tickets, ipods, and books now.

Okay, maybe not morphine, but at least some amphetamine salts in there.

:::waits for DEA to come knocking on my door:::

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didnt i read there is a marijuana vending machine in some herbal store down in LA? i think it was on cnn or something.

islander01 said:

i dont think it should be a controlled substance because:
1) if it becomes controlled, that means people with allergies have to get rx slips from a doctor? you are wasting both the doctors, patients, and the pharmacists' (see next point) precious time to help more patients.
2) it does 5 minutes for a clerk to fill out the log. it takes 20 minutes to process, count, and pharmacist's check on the "controlled" substance.
3) not all people abused PSE products. only some people do that.

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Actually it is a controlled substance. Do you mean should it be a scheduled substance?

It takes alot more than 5 minutes to fill out the stupid log that does nothing to actually stop people from buying PSE and making meth.

If anyone with half a brain was serious about combating the meth epidemic they would make it a C-V. It wouldn't completely eliminate meth but would make it much harder to obtain.

The added advantage to having PSE rx only is it would count in my sales as well as in my scrip count. Right now I have to do all the work and get no credit, it all goes to the GM department.

NormalSaline said:

I'll vote yes. Nothing worse than taking 2 minutes to enter all of someones info only to spend 5 minutes explaining that they are over the monthly limit...meanwhile 8 people are behind them in line.

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Then your store should get this. My store has it and it takes about 20 seconds extra to complete the sale....

MountainPharmD said:

Actually it is a controlled substance. Do you mean should it be a scheduled substance?

It takes alot more than 5 minutes to fill out the stupid log that does nothing to actually stop people from buying PSE and making meth.

If anyone with half a brain was serious about combating the meth epidemic they would make it a C-V. It wouldn't completely eliminate meth but would make it much harder to obtain.

The added advantage to having PSE rx only is it would count in my sales as well as in my scrip count. Right now I have to do all the work and get no credit, it all goes to the GM department.

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sorry man, really it took you that long to fill out the log. it took most of my colleagues less than 5 to fill out that log.
regarding to the sales, each pack only costs like $5. Unless your pharmacy is hecka slow, the $5 sale to your daily sales log doesnt really make that much difference.

yeah i bought PSE the other week and the cashier just scanned my driver's license into the register, i didn't even notice the extra time involved.

islander01 said:

sorry man, really it took you that long to fill out the log. it took most of my colleagues less than 5 to fill out that log.
regarding to the sales, each pack only costs like $5. Unless your pharmacy is hecka slow, the $5 sale to your daily sales log doesnt really make that much difference.

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Take the sales and the script count over the course of a year and it adds up.

if you take a lot of vicodin pills, of course you will get addicted to it. but if you take a lot of decongestant pills, will you get addicted to it? i doubt it since the amount of PSE in each pill is so small.

so end of the day, should PSE products be as regulated as much as other c2-c5 drugs? No

confettiflyer said:

and no PSE shouldn't be C-II...it's not addicting unto itself and you gotta do quite a bit of distilling/processing to turn it into meth.

It's like controlling access to fertilizer because people can turn those into bombs.

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I've been denied fertilizer because "I don't look like a farmer"

njac said:

I've been denied fertilizer because "I don't look like a farmer"

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yeah...but do you look like a terrorist?

islander01 said:

if you take a lot of vicodin pills, of course you will get addicted to it. but if you take a lot of decongestant pills, will you get addicted to it? i doubt it since the amount of PSE in each pill is so small.

so end of the day, should PSE products be as regulated as much as other c2-c5 drugs? No

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You are missing the point of why drugs are scheduled. Yes, part of it is their addictive potential and part of it is their abuse potential. Are PSE products abused? Yes, by those who are converting it to methamphtamine. Therfore, it should be scheduled as a dangerous drug becuase of this abuse potential. No PSE, no meth its that simple.

MountainPharmD said:

You are missing the point of why drugs are scheduled. Yes, part of it is their addictive potential and part of it is their abuse potential. Are PSE products abused? Yes, by those who are converting it to methamphtamine. Therfore, it should be scheduled as a dangerous drug becuase of this abuse potential. No PSE, no meth its that simple.

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so you are saying one pill of claritin d, etc. as a whole, without alteration, can be abusive?
as far as if this goes to a bill and get voted by US citizens, you are losing right now for the record.

islander01 said:

so you are saying one pill of claritin d, etc. as a whole, without alteration, can be abusive?
as far as if this goes to a bill and get voted by US citizens, you are losing right now for the record.

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It is the POTENTIAL for abuse. One pill of Vicodin isn't dangerous on its own either but we are not talking about one pill are we? Last I checked the OTC section at my pharmacy you could not buy one pill of Claritin D. We are talking about easily being able to obtain large quantities of PSE. This is something the current regulations do nothing to stop. By the way, what "bills" get voted on by US citizens?

MountainPharmD said:

It is the POTENTIAL for abuse. One pill of Vicodin isn't dangerous on its own either but we are not talking about one pill are we? Last I checked the OTC section at my pharmacy you could not buy one pill of Claritin D. We are talking about easily being able to obtain large quantities of PSE. This is something the current regulations do nothing to stop. By the way, what "bills" get voted on by US citizens?

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Dood...how do you like the weather?

Epic said:

Dood...how do you like the weather?

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That is the main reason I moved here and it has been awsome. I think you were in Colorado a few weeks ago so you know what it is like there. I could not take 8 months of snow. I do miss the moutains though.