Buying your way into med school

[MedStudentWanna]

Without even taking the MCAT.

I'm not naive. I know that in the world, it's who you know. But explain to me, a 27-year-old former computer graphics guy who's now back in school to become a doctor how a kid with no MCAT score and no AMCAS application gets into med school? Ding, ding, ding, could it be Daddy's financial contribution to Gov. Crist and Crist's letter of recommendation? This story is disgusting. The selection committee should walk.

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/articl...0319/1007/NEWS

First paragraph.

A student admitted to the University of Florida's College of Medicine by its dean, over the objections of the college's selection committee, had not taken a required admissions examination, according to committee members.

[wizenedone]

That link doesn't work.

[Vihsadas]

Your link is broken because its liked with the ellipsis.

[Auron]

here guys:

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/articl...0319/1007/NEWS

[mdgator]

Good thinking Auron...the rest of the pre med community should be brought into the conversation.

Everyone should look into this story. It truly is disgusting. It's discussed extensively in the FL schools thread, and there have been 2 or 3 stories in the Gainesville Sun.

[Revilla]

I just sent this to a friend of mine who attends UF. I feel bad for the med school's waitlisted students.

[wizenedone]

Ah well. I guess . . . Life isn't fair, right?

[Revilla]

Originally Posted by mdgator

Good thinking Auron...the rest of the pre med community should be brought into the conversation.

Everyone should look into this story. It truly is disgusting. It's discussed extensively in the FL schools thread, and there have been 2 or 3 stories in the Gainesville Sun.

I'm curious about something. I'm in the Tampa/St. Pete area and haven't seen it in the local paper. Are any of the other Florida papers covering it?

[TheRealMD]

Very disappointing. Where is the standard of ethics here?

[callmedonnie]

Originally Posted by Revilla

I just sent this to a friend of mine who attends UF. I feel bad for the med school's waitlisted students.

its fine, i am withdrawing anyway, so hopefully it cancels things a bit...

[Wylde]

I would seriously feel pathetic if I were this kid and/or his relatives.

My father is a business owner and I could take over his business after college and be in a better financial standing than almost any degree will get me, but I told myself I want to be successful and happy because of my own efforts and not owe something to the hard work of my dad. I know no one would/will respect me as much as someone else who is successful, if I get my success by taking over his business.

It's kind of sad if you think about it, who could feel good about themselves if they get everything handed to them like this? I pity him.

edit: grammar... I'm tired

[mdgator]

Originally Posted by Wylde

I would seriously feel pathetic if I were this kid and/or his relatives.

My father his a business owner and I could take over his business after college and be in a better financial standing than almost any degree will get me, but I told myself I want to be successful and happy because of my own efforts and not owe something to the hard work of my dad. I know no one would/will respect me as much as someone else who is successful, if I get my success by taking over his business.

It's kind of sad if you think about it, who could feel good about themselves if they get everything handed to them like this? I am pity him.

Not to mention, can you think of how his classmates will treat him next semester. You know...the ones who worked their **ses off to get what his daddy just bought for him.

[TheBigGREEN]

Originally Posted by Wylde

I would seriously feel pathetic if I were this kid and/or his relatives.

My father his a business owner and I could take over his business after college and be in a better financial standing than almost any degree will get me, but I told myself I want to be successful and happy because of my own efforts and not owe something to the hard work of my dad. I know no one would/will respect me as much as someone else who is successful, if I get my success by taking over his business.

It's kind of sad if you think about it, who could feel good about themselves if they get everything handed to them like this? I am pity him.

kudos! i can definitely respect that!

[ZarbK2]

No residency program should accept him until he takes it and does well.

[callmedonnie]

Originally Posted by ZarbK2

No residency program should accept him until he takes it and does well.

dude he probly wont even have to take the boards...

must be nice

[callmedonnie]

wow this is just wild

i mean i have def seen political/financial influence in higher education, but never this flagrant

I wonder if Old Man Crist would ever take his sick kids to see this clown

[TexasMD2B]

well what a suprise. money talks - even in the medical field. surprise surprise.

when interviewing in Houston, i was told that Dr. Denton Cooley's grandson was a first year. wonder if he had any problem becoming a student in the medical center that his grandfather (along with DeBakey) essentially established.

i wonder if any of David Geffen's relatives would have trouble getting into UCLA if they wanted.

i'm sure that only a few people matriculate each year through such methods. but it's not hard to believe that it happens. this is America after all.

[Vihsadas]

Originally Posted by callmedonnie

dude he probly wont even have to take the boards...

must be nice

No there's a difference between skipping a test to be admitted to medical school, and skipping a test to get a legal licensure to practice medicine.

(Not saying that I agree with this at all. I think it's gross.)

[ChePibe]

Originally Posted by TexasMD2B

well what a suprise. money talks - even in the medical field. surprise surprise.

when interviewing in Houston, i was told that Dr. Denton Cooley's grandson was a first year. wonder if he had any problem becoming a student in the medical center that his grandfather (along with DeBakey) essentially established.

i wonder if any of David Geffen's relatives would have trouble getting into UCLA if they wanted.

i'm sure that only a few people matriculate each year through such methods. but it's not hard to believe that it happens. this is America after all.

Actually, according to a reputable admission committee member in FL this is quite not that common as popular belief would like us to believe. Nevertheless, we all know third person accounts of such things happening but the situation in UF is particularly deplorable considering the omissions by the Dean and his disrespect for the community and his own alma mater.
I refer everybody to the last few pages of the FL thread.

[scarletgirl777]

The thing about this is that it seems like going to med school was a flip decision...I mean, how could he have not taken the MCAT???? It means he didn't even TRY to apply to any schools. I mean, the audacity of this move! The fact that he did not at least make the effort to have SOME MCAT score
and use his connections to get in from there (as so many people have done). And the aborted combined program attempt is so fishy and makes NO sense, who applies to a combined BS/MD program in their junior year of college??? It was like he just couldn't be bothered to take the MCAT, so when applying to the MCATless combined program didn't work, he was like what the hell, I'm above putting any effort into this process.

It appears he's a legacy at Northwestern too, so I wouldn't be surprised if he coasted his way in there too.

[87138]

Originally Posted by ChePibe

Actually, according to a reputable admission committee member in FL this is quite not that common as popular belief would like us to believe.

That was the strangest sentence I've read in a while.

[ChePibe]

Originally Posted by rogerwilco

That was the strangest sentence I've read in a while.

I just read it again and I almost crapped my pants laughing. You are so right.
I meant to say that, contrary to popular belief, a reliable source commented that this is not a common practice.
Please, apologize the inconvenience since it is rather late and my brain checked off last summer.

[littlealex]

Originally Posted by Vihsadas

No there's a difference between skipping a test to be admitted to medical school, and skipping a test to get a legal licensure to practice medicine.

(Not saying that I agree with this at all. I think it's gross.)

Well, he may take it, get a 185, and get an opthalmology residency spot his daddy bought him.

On that note, I'm not really shocked that it happened, I'm shocked how little money it took to buy that seat. They contribute around 33,000 a year and got their son into med school. Holy crap.
I know people who will easily shell out half a million for a spot in med school, I guess they just don't have the right people to give the money to.

[Norua]

I'm still confused about Benjamin Mendelsohn's actual status in school. Was he in high school last year? Did he apply to the junior honors program and then, upon being denied admission, start undergrad at NU (which would mean he just got "accepted" into med school as a college freshman)? Or was he already an established junior at NU applying to a 7-year BS/MD program?

Ben Mendelsohn has a facebook profile. It says NU '08 / UF Grad Student '12.

[TexasMD2B]

Honestly though, it's a shame they mentioned the student by name.

Talk about a national embarrassment.

At the very least, I'm sure his facebook is taking a beating these days.

[Paul Leibowitz]

I don't see any problem with this.

This student is more than welcome at the Barry Zlatko School of Medicine should he decide to apply.

[-Goose-]

Wow. Just wow.

[Perrotfish]

.

[SQUmedic]

Yeah its kinda strange that they mentioned his name. His life is going to be hell..

[lettingo]

Originally Posted by Norua

I'm still confused about Benjamin Mendelsohn's actual status in school. Was he in high school last year? Did he apply to the junior honors program and then, upon being denied admission, start undergrad at NU (which would mean he just got "accepted" into med school as a college freshman)? Or was he already an established junior at NU applying to a 7-year BS/MD program?

Students apply to the JHMP during second semester of sophomore year.

[Ella Shepherd]

Originally Posted by wizenedone

Ah well. I guess . . . Life isn't fair, right?

Yeah, it isn't. But that's no reason why people can keep making it less fair than it already is. To put it in another way: life isn't fair, but it doesn't give people the reason to be unfair. That's like saying I'll keep doing bad things because I'm not perfect anyway. I am not perfect, but I can do my best to avoid doing bad things.

(Just in case there might be some misunderstanding, I'm not "attacking" you okay. Just the article and whatnot. )

[Ella Shepherd]

Originally Posted by Paul Leibowitz

I don't see any problem with this.

This student is more than welcome at the Barry Zlatko School of Medicine should he decide to apply.

lol

[Ella Shepherd]

Originally Posted by TexasMD2B

Honestly though, it's a shame they mentioned the student by name.

Talk about a national embarrassment.

At the every least, I'm sure his facebook is taking a beating these days.

I actually got surprised when they mentioned the name. Many of his classmates will probably hate him for what he did...

[Dendrite]

Originally Posted by Ella Shepherd

life isn't fair, but it doesn't give people the reason to be unfair.

This is very well-said.

[LizzyM]

Did you read Dean Kone's e-mail message to, among others, the President of the University? (a sidebar to the newspaper story) I think that Dean Kone's going to be run out of town again. Looks like there will be a search committee forming to find a new Dean of the med school soon.

[Dendrite]

Originally Posted by LizzyM

Did you read Dean Kone's e-mail message to, among others, the President of the University? (a sidebar to the newspaper story) I think that Dean Kone's going to be run out of town again. Looks like there will be a search committee forming to find a new Dean of the med school soon.

Hi LizzyM,

I wanted to ask, has there been word on whether this is already in progress (the search committee formation), or do you project this to take place in the near future?

And from the perspective of someone who deals with Admissions, how do you think this will affect the current students and those who plan to matriculate this Fall?

[Just Joshin]

Originally Posted by littlealex

Well, he may take it, get a 185, and get an opthalmology residency spot his daddy bought him.

On that note, I'm not really shocked that it happened, I'm shocked how little money it took to buy that seat. They contribute around 33,000 a year and got their son into med school. Holy crap.
I know people who will easily shell out half a million for a spot in med school, I guess they just don't have the right people to give the money to.

The people you know are going about it the wrong way. These folks fundraised for the Governor of FL (Charlie Crist) and probably brought in millions of dollars for Crist's campaign. Crist then picked up the ball and got him in.

[nycfella]

I feel sorry for UF medical students. I mean yeah sure it probably happens in a lot of places, but definitely not as blatantly. With that said, how much is a UF medical degree really worth? For all the stats they print for people to admire, Mcat scores gpa and the like, in the end what I, and probably most other people who read the story, will be thinking is how much effort does it lreally take to get into UF med school. I mean it's really just a matter of living in Florida and paying someone off. I think everyone who got in this year should withdraw. It's probably not going to happen, but boy would it send out a message to all the fakes and snakes and the whole screwed up US educational system.

[LizzyM]

Originally Posted by nycfella

I think everyone who got in this year should withdraw. It's probably not going to happen, but boy would it send out a message to all the fakes and snakes and the whole screwed up US educational system.

If everyone planning to matriculate at UF who had an offer of admission elsewhere were to withdraw their application from UF, and if everyone with an offer elsewhere who was on the waitlist at UF were to withdraw their application... it would be a very interesting situation. I wonder how many points the avg MCAT and gpa would fall in just one year.

I have not heard of a search committee being organized in Florida but after reading the letter from Kone to the President of the university, I can't see how the guy can do anything other than pack his bags. A search for a new dean doesn't have any effect on current students or current applicants. Deans come & go and most students couldn't tell you anything more than the Dean's name (if that).

[uni8685]

People, you all need to relax... Egregiously unfair circumstances like this happen all the time in the professional world. Our future profession is set up in such a way that if they are not able to sufficiently pass boards and other weed out methods, they will not be able to practice as physicians. To say that he is not qualified or did not 'prove' himself because he didnt take the mcat is absurd. Many med schools accept students without mcats-- while these are programs in which the students have to keep certain gpa's etc, the mcat and pre-med courses certainly are not litmus tests for becoming a doctor.

Our profession has safeguards, trust them, get over your own lack of confidence-- and stop blaming stories like these for your difficulty in getting into med school. If you want it enough, you will become a physician, its just a little harder (and significantly easier) for some than others. But hey, that's life-- I grew up in the inner city and attended a hs that did not have science courses after sophmore chemistry. Compare that to the experience most of you probably had with all sorts of ap courses (unfair right?). I didnt let that be an excuse (going to either Weill Cornell or Pitt this fall!!!) Point is: what matters is individual effort and what we as individuals can control. We can control our effort and how much time we put into accomplishing our goals. Leave all this other tomfoolery for the weak-willed... Good luck!

ps. Choosing to withdraw from UF because of this is foolish-- Florida needs doctors and the state allocates money to this institution because of this. What good would a mass exodus away from UF serve? Where's the logic?

[uni8685]

People, you all need to relax... Egregiously unfair circumstances like this happen all the time in the professional world. Our future profession is set up in such a way that if they are not able to sufficiently pass boards and other weed out methods, they will not be able to practice as physicians. To say that he is not qualified or did not 'prove' himself because he didnt take the mcat is absurd. Many med schools accept students without mcats-- while these are programs in which the students have to keep certain gpa's etc, the mcat and pre-med courses certainly are not litmus tests for becoming a doctor.

Our profession has safeguards, trust them, get over your own lack of confidence-- and stop blaming stories like these for your difficulty in getting into med school. If you want it enough, you will become a physician, its just a little harder (and significantly easier) for some than others. But hey, that's life-- I grew up in the inner city and attended a hs that did not have science courses after sophmore chemistry. Compare that to the experience most of you probably had with all sorts of ap courses (unfair right?). I didnt let that be an excuse (going to either Weill Cornell or Pitt this fall!!!) Point is: what matters is individual effort and what we as individuals can control. We can control our effort and how much time we put into accomplishing our goals. Leave all this other tomfoolery for the weak-willed... Good luck!

ps. Choosing to withdraw from UF because of this is foolish-- Florida needs doctors and the state allocates money to this institution because of this. What good would a mass exodus away from UF serve? Where's the logic?

[kedrin]

Originally Posted by LizzyM

If everyone planning to matriculate at UF who had an offer of admission elsewhere were to withdraw their application from UF, and if everyone with an offer elsewhere who was on the waitlist at UF were to withdraw their application... it would be a very interesting situation. I wonder how many points the avg MCAT and gpa would fall in just one year.

i dont think theres ever a chance of tthat happening. There are thousands who would take any acceptance from any place in the united states. Maybe a few would change their minds but i doubt any huge impact.

[LizzyM]

Originally Posted by uni8685

ps. Choosing to withdraw from UF because of this is foolish-- Florida needs doctors and the state allocates money to this institution because of this. What good would a mass exodus away from UF serve? Where's the logic?

No one need to attend UF in order to practice medicine in Florida. Many excellent applicants have choices and many may choose a different school over UF given the unfavorable publicity that the school has experienced this month. Who wants to carry a diploma from a school with a reputation for these shenanigans?

[callmedonnie]

Originally Posted by LizzyM

Did you read Dean Kone's e-mail message to, among others, the President of the University? (a sidebar to the newspaper story) I think that Dean Kone's going to be run out of town again. Looks like there will be a search committee forming to find a new Dean of the med school soon.

ya this guy is a total sleaze

[thebeatblitz]

I think it's hilarious that the committee members chose to divulge this information on condition of anonymity because of student confidentiality, and then the next line in the story is the kid's name.

[frikarika]

Yep, gotta love nepotism! White people's affirmative action.

[leftmid]

i tend to think that everything has a price and this one is no different. as long as the dean doesn't do it for personal gain, s/he can let someone in for a large donation even though that person won't practice medicine after graduation. but here i am making a comment without reading the thread again.... i'm just ready for some luxury medical school exclusively for recreation, ain't i?

[NewAndImproved]

Originally Posted by LizzyM

A search for a new dean doesn't have any effect on current students or current applicants. Deans come & go and most students couldn't tell you anything more than the Dean's name (if that).

I'm not sure that's entirely true in this case. As noted elsewhere, this dean fired an MD professor and in so doing, lost favor with a long-time donor to the program. That move cost UF somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 million dollars according to newspaper reports. That's a faculty position, new technology, free printing, something from which students could have benefited.

[LizzyM]

Originally Posted by NewAndImproved

I'm not sure that's entirely true in this case. As noted elsewhere, this dean fired an MD professor and in so doing, lost favor with a long-time donor to the program. That move cost UF somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 million dollars according to newspaper reports. That's a faculty position, new technology, free printing, something from which students could have benefited.

A search for a new dean doesn't have a big effect on current and future students. The reason the school is looking for a new dean might be something that could/should be of concern to current and future students.

[8744]

Originally Posted by mdgator

Not to mention, can you think of how his classmates will treat him next semester. You know...the ones who worked their **ses off to get what his daddy just bought for him.

No. They won't care. He may be a perfectly decent, likable guy and that's all that matters. Only extremely petty, anal compulsive people count other people's chips. If anybody cares at all, after he takes and passes a couple of tests it won't matter. Two years from now nobody will remember, and eight years from now when he finishes residency his patients won't care and he will probably be a good doctor.