Shadowing Req/Rec for DS Admission.

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Shadowing ranks among the top of misunderstood topics for DS admission.
Shadowing is designed to acquaint the prospective dental student with the daily life of a dentist. It is about observing the atmosphere in a dental office, the interaction between staff, practitioner and patient and, more importantly,about the procedures performed in a dental office. It is for this reason that the number of hours required/recommended for shadowing is reasonable. It should not take months or years to make a determination that dentistry is for us. Shadowing most certainly is not intended for ojt. Ideally, an applicant should shadow a gp for 4-8 hours/day for about 3-4 days. Since not all offices are created equal, whenever possible, shadowing should not be limited to a single office, especially when the practice may be limited in scope. We should observe restorative, prostho, oral surgery, perio, endo, pedo and ortho procedures. For the more demanding applicant, shadowing a specialist is recommended.

Seeking a position as a dental assistant for the sole purpose of shadowing is counterproductive and should be avoided. The time would be better spent improving the gpa and/or the dat scores.

An update version from the 2009 ADEA Official Guide to Dental School. Changes are shown in bold.

Updated 10-26-2010 from the 2010 ADEA Official Guide to DS.

Im assuming that the numbers on the right column are the minimum hours required?

Originally Posted by mx41

Im assuming that the numbers on the right column are the minimum hours required?

Yes.

Wow NY 100 hours required? Seems questionable but I'll believe you since I'm waitlisted there.

Good advice. It doesn't make sense to shadow a dentist for the sake of learning procedures. Also, thousands of hours seems highly unnecessary and a big waste of time.

Do these hours need to be completed before the application is turned in? or Before we enter Dental School?

I noticed that the list said that the University of Pittsburgh requires 100 hours of shadowing experience or other dental related experience. I have never heard of Pitt requiring their applicants to have had this.

Even Pitt's "admissions requirements" website doesn't have anything about it... here's the link for the dental school requirements.

http://www.dental.pitt.edu/students/...p#requirements

Just thought I would point that out.

Originally Posted by paul510psu

I noticed that the list said that the University of Pittsburgh requires 100 hours of shadowing experience or other dental related experience. I have never heard of Pitt requiring their applicants to have had this.

Even Pitt's "admissions requirements" website doesn't have anything about it... here's the link for the dental school requirements.

http://www.dental.pitt.edu/students/...p#requirements

Just thought I would point that out.

It certainly could be a misprint, however, that is number of hours listed as required. (2008 ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools.) When in doubt, it is best to check with the school in question.

There are a lot of misprints in the ADEA official guide this year. Quite a few schools have their prereqs messed up. It says one thing in the guide but then their online site says something different.

hmmmm...for the amount of hours that shadowed, can it be an overall estimate of the hours shadowed over several different practioners??

Hello friend , I am getting hard time for shadowing in Dental office. What is the better approach to Dentist for shadowing .Can anyone guide me .
Please
Thanks

thanks for posting the info! i'm not sure how firm some of those numbers are. it says midwestern requires 100 hrs, but when i interviewed there, they told me i had "a significant amount of observation hours", even though i have just a little more than 50.

Originally Posted by seeundbe

Hello friend , I am getting hard time for shadowing in Dental office. What is the better approach to Dentist for shadowing .Can anyone guide me .
Please
Thanks

When everything else fails you could try the old fashioned way, you know, make an appointment for you biannual check up and after your exam tell him/her about your interest in dentistry/shadowing.

Originally Posted by lotank

thanks for posting the info! i'm not sure how firm some of those numbers are. it says midwestern requires 100 hrs, but when i interviewed there, they told me i had "a significant amount of observation hours", even though i have just a little more than 50.

The 100 yours for Midwestern is recommended rather than required.

**I looked at Pitt and NYU's websites and I could not find that 100 hrs was required. I was planning on doing 50 hrs. Has anyone found that more is required?

doc toothache, I have a question.

Is it okay if say I just shadowed a dentist for like the summers? I started shadowing a dentist starting from the end of freshmen year in the summer, and again in the summer after sophmore year. I think totally, I have about 100 hours. But I've talked to my school counselors, and they tell me that it is better if I can do it during the whole year instead of just the summers. I don't know if they really know what they're talking about. I plan on getting a letter of rec from my dentist, but I don't know if I should have him put down that I was there only for the summers, or should I just have him put down the total amount of hours that I was there?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by sleepinxlionhar

doc toothache, I have a question.
Is it okay if say I just shadowed a dentist for like the summers? I started shadowing a dentist starting from the end of freshmen year in the summer, and again in the summer after sophmore year. I think totally, I have about 100 hours. But I've talked to my school counselors, and they tell me that it is better if I can do it during the whole year instead of just the summers. I don't know if they really know what they're talking about. I plan on getting a letter of rec from my dentist, but I don't know if I should have him put down that I was there only for the summers, or should I just have him put down the total amount of hours that I was there?

It is hard to come up with a good reason to recommend shadowing as a year round experience rather than a summer undertaking. Unless requested, the dentist you shadowed is likely to, at best, include only in general terms the amount of time you spent in his/her office. That is not the purpose of an LOR.

Originally Posted by hellonurse

**I looked at Pitt and NYU's websites and I could not find that 100 hrs was required. I was planning on doing 50 hrs. Has anyone found that more is required?

anybody able to confirm please?
i was also planning on 50...hmm never knew NYU required 100?
thx!!

Originally Posted by Fraises

anybody able to confirm please?
i was also planning on 50...hmm never knew NYU required 100?
thx!!

From what I've seen... applicants who are well qualified but did not do the required 100 are waitlisted for NYU

ah. i see.. lol thanks!

Originally Posted by seeundbe

Hello friend , I am getting hard time for shadowing in Dental office. What is the better approach to Dentist for shadowing .Can anyone guide me .
Please
Thanks

i know your pain.

i called a couple of places and they didn't seem to thrilled with the idea of having a student at their offices.

Fortunately, my friend gave me the phone # of the dentist he was shadowing and the receptionist signed me up for a spot.

It really depends on how lucky you are. Just keep calling places or try to find a place where there are already pre-dents shadowing.
I'm sure there are some dentists that understand how hard it is being a pre-dent.

good luck.

my first semester of college is in the fall and i have taken it pretty easy. I can probably do 8 hours of shadowing a week. Is it okay if i do all of my shadowing this semester. I can probably do 100 hours in 13 weeks at different locations. Or would it be smart to do maybe 25 hours every semester of college? Or should i go well over 100 hours?

I did the majority of my shadowing while in high school, about 250 hours volunteering as a dental assistant. But there's really no need for you to rush it if you don't have to. If you can, it would probably be fine - and as you mention in your post, going to a number of different types of offices is a very good idea! Remember though, you may want to get a letter of rec from one of the dentists, keep that in mind.

Originally Posted by doc toothache

Shadowing ranks among the top of misunderstood topics for DS admission.
Shadowing is designed to acquaint the prospective dental student with the daily life of a dentist. It is about observing the atmosphere in a dental office, the interaction between staff, practitioner and patient and, more importantly,about the procedures performed in a dental office. It is for this reason that the number of hours required/recommended for shadowing is reasonable. It should not take months or years to make a determination that dentistry is for us. Shadowing most certainly is not intended for ojt. Ideally, an applicant should shadow a gp for 4-8 hours/day for about 3-4 days. Since not all offices are created equal, whenever possible, shadowing should not be limited to a single office, especially when the practice may be limited in scope. We should observe restorative, prostho, oral surgery, perio, endo, pedo and ortho procedures. For the more demanding applicant, shadowing a specialist is recommended.

Seeking a position as a dental assistant for the sole purpose of shadowing is counterproductive and should be avoided. The time would be better spent improving the gpa and/or the dat scores.

The list was compiled from info obtained from the 2008 ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools.

                       Hrs                                     Hrs
1    Alab    Req    NR        30    Miss    Rec    40
2    AZ    Rec    NR        31    Missou    Req    100
3    Mid    Rec    100        32    Creigh    Rec    40
4    LL    Req    20        33    Neb    Req    35
5    UCLA    Rec    NR        34    Nev    Req    NR
6    UCSF    Rec    NR        35    UMDNJ    Rec    25
7    UOP    Req    40        36    Colum    Rec    NR
8    USC    Rec    NR        37    NY    Req    100
9    Westrn    Req    30        38    SB    Req    NS
10    Colo    Rec    NR        39    Buf    Rec    NR
11    Conn    Req    50        40    UNC    Req    NR
12    Howard    Rec    100        41    Case    Rec    20
13    Nova    Rec    0        42    Ohio    Req    20
14    Flor    Rec    NR        43    Ok    Req    100
15    Geo    Req    30        44    Ore    Req    50
16    S Ill    Rec    30        45    Penn    Req    N/A
17    U Ill    Rec    100        46    Pitt    Req    100
18    Ind    Req    40        47    Temple    Rec    NR
19    Iowa    Rec    NR        48    PP    Rec    NR
20    Kent    Req    20        49    SC    Rec    20
21    Louiv    Rec    NR        50    Meh    Rec    NR
22    Louis    Req    NR        51    Tenn    Req    30
23    Md    Rec    NR        52    Baylor    Req    16
24    Boston    Rec    NR        53    Hou    Req    NR
25    Harv    Rec    NR        54    SA    Req    NR
26    Tufts    Req    30        55    VA    Rec    150
27    Mercy    Req    NR        56    Wash    Req     100min
28    Mich    Rec    NR        57    WVA    Req    40
29    Minn    Req    30        58    Marq    Rec    40

An update version from the 2009 ADEA Official Guide to Dental School. Changes are shown in bold.

Good post doc. Tnx

100 hours required at UW? (I assume the "min" is minimum and not minutes, hehe...) Wow, I didn't realize this. Thanks for posting the list -- very helpful.

Is this list really legit? I looked on what I think is NYU and Pitt's requirement pages and it doesn't appear to say anything about a specific number of shadowing hours? Are there specific areas on their website that lists this information? It seems like a lot of dental schools suggest shadowing to learn more about the profession, but I feel like actually requiring 100 hours may be somewhat unrealistic.

Anyone?

As Doc mentioned in the middle of his paragraph, and should be pointed out again, it's a list of "required OR RECOMMENDED." This means that the schools on this list don't necessarily require that you have the number listed, but they may recommend it. The AADSAS book doesn't specify which schools have requirements and which schools recommend, that would be much more helpful. I know the number for LLU is required, and specifically at a General Dentist.

I was a bit shocked by that number for Pitt, as well as the other 100 hr schools being so much higher than the others, and I would guess that such a high number would be a "recommended" number. Like I said before, I had more than that, but I'm sure many people would find it difficult to get that many in, especially if they decide on dentistry late in college. Now that I'm thinking about it, 100 hours wouldn't really be that much if you're doing it over 2-3 years.

So anyways, give Rose from Pitt a call or an email, I'm sure she'll clear it up for you as to wheater it's required or recommended.

Bump. I found this really helpful and I thought some other predents just getting started might as well.

Originally Posted by Vicviper

This means that the schools on this list don't necessarily require that you have the number listed, but they may recommend it. The AADSAS book doesn't specify which schools have requirements and which schools recommend, that would be much more helpful.

Not exactly true. I'm not sure what the AADSAS book is , but the ADEA Guide does specify which schools "Require" a certain number of hours, and which schools "Recommend" it. Doc Toothaches chart clearly reflects which schools require versus recommends a certain number of hours. This may change from year to year however.

That doesn't mean that exceptions aren't made, they are, but don't count on being the exception. The best way to be sure about "Recommended" vs "Required" hours is to call the school up and ask, just as Vicviper recommended.

Does anyone know if working in a dental lab could count as observation hours or does it have to be directly observing the dentist. I know some schools require "dental experience," which includes working in a lab

Originally Posted by daunit

Does anyone know if working in a dental lab could count as observation hours or does it have to be directly observing the dentist. I know some schools require "dental experience," which includes working in a lab

That depends. Are you applying to ds or to dental lab schools?

ok i understand that but i didn't know if all schools were like western where they require dental experience hours not observation hours

Originally Posted by daunit

ok i understand that but i didn't know if all schools were like western where they require dental experience hours not observation hours

You might want to read their requirements with greater care.

*

Originally Posted by njohns24

Bump--I am also interested in the answer to this question...

The shadowing requirement/recommendation is designed for your benefit as a means of ascertaining that it is indeed the field you want to pursue. It would stand to reason that you should have that done before you apply, lest you decide late in the game that the sight of blood is not what you bargained for.

hey,

So is it ok if those hours are made up of a combination of GP, ortho and OMSF hours? or do they all have to be GP?

Shadowing for 100 hours at a GP is just plain boring. I have already shadowed for 20 hours at GP and am already bored. How many extractions, cavities and cleanings does it need to take? gosh.

for shadowing..
I am getting paid, so i might have over 200 hours.

Does that look bad if i have too many hours seriously?

I dont wanna quit if i can make money

Originally Posted by bonvivant07

hey,
So is it ok if those hours are made up of a combination of GP, ortho and OMSF hours? or do they all have to be GP?
Shadowing for 100 hours at a GP is just plain boring. I have already shadowed for 20 hours at GP and am already bored. How many extractions, cavities and cleanings does it need to take? gosh.

Maybe you should be looking for another more exciting career.

Originally Posted by doc toothache

Maybe you should be looking for another more exciting career.

agreed doc

Ok, I said watching was boring. Obviously doing is more fun.

Also, I am thinking of specializing, so a dds/dmd is a steping stone

Originally Posted by bonvivant07

Ok, I said watching was boring. Obviously doing is more fun.

Also, I am thinking of specializing, so a dds/dmd is a steping stone

Since you are a long way from "doing any dentistry, it may be a bit of a stretch to pronounce it as more fun. You have a long way before specializing and your "stepping stone" may end up being as solid as a cloud in the sky.

seriously, I am not new to this forum, I made a new screen name because my old one got hacked into.

So step off your high horse Just because you have been on this forum for a long time doesn't give you the right ti criticize others or their posts.

And I know what I am doing, I have shadowed GP, OMSF, Ortho, Periodontal and Prosthodontics. So no I did not just picked what I want to do out of thin air.

So relax and stop spending so much time on this forum and get some fresh air

Originally Posted by bonvivant07

seriously, I am not new to this forum, I made a new screen name because my old one got hacked into.
And I know what I am doing, I have shadowed GP, OMSF, Ortho, Periodontal and Prosthodontics. So no I did not just picked what I want to do out of thin air.
So relax and stop spending so much time on this forum and get some fresh air

With 12++ posts and we are already hypersensitive. You may know what you are doing today, but you certainly don't know what you will be doing in 5 years even assuming you gain acceptance and decide to stick it out for the long haul.

Originally Posted by doc toothache

Shadowing ranks among the top of misunderstood topics for DS admission.
Shadowing is designed to acquaint the prospective dental student with the daily life of a dentist. It is about observing the atmosphere in a dental office, the interaction between staff, practitioner and patient and, more importantly,about the procedures performed in a dental office. It is for this reason that the number of hours required/recommended for shadowing is reasonable. It should not take months or years to make a determination that dentistry is for us. Shadowing most certainly is not intended for ojt. Ideally, an applicant should shadow a gp for 4-8 hours/day for about 3-4 days. Since not all offices are created equal, whenever possible, shadowing should not be limited to a single office, especially when the practice may be limited in scope. We should observe restorative, prostho, oral surgery, perio, endo, pedo and ortho procedures. For the more demanding applicant, shadowing a specialist is recommended.

Seeking a position as a dental assistant for the sole purpose of shadowing is counterproductive and should be avoided. The time would be better spent improving the gpa and/or the dat scores.

The list was compiled from info obtained from the 2008 ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools.

                       Hrs                                     Hrs
1    Alab    Req    NR        30    Miss    Rec    40
2    AZ    Rec    NR        31    Missou    Req    100
3    Mid    Rec    100        32    Creigh    Rec    40
4    LL    Req    20        33    Neb    Req    35
5    UCLA    Rec    NR        34    Nev    Req    NR
6    UCSF    Rec    NR        35    UMDNJ    Rec    25
7    UOP    Req    40        36    Colum    Rec    NR
8    USC    Rec    NR        37    NY    Req    100
9    Westrn    Req    30        38    SB    Req    NS
10    Colo    Rec    NR        39    Buf    Rec    NR
11    Conn    Req    50        40    UNC    Req    NR
12    Howard    Rec    100        41    Case    Rec    20
13    Nova    Rec    0        42    Ohio    Req    20
14    Flor    Rec    NR        43    Ok    Req    100
15    Geo    Req    30        44    Ore    Req    50
16    S Ill    Rec    30        45    Penn    Req    N/A
17    U Ill    Rec    100        46    Pitt    Req    100
18    Ind    Req    40        47    Temple    Rec    NR
19    Iowa    Rec    NR        48    PP    Rec    NR
20    Kent    Req    20        49    SC    Rec    20
21    Louiv    Rec    NR        50    Meh    Rec    NR
22    Louis    Req    NR        51    Tenn    Req    30
23    Md    Rec    NR        52    Baylor    Req    16
24    Boston    Rec    NR        53    Hou    Req    NR
25    Harv    Rec    NR        54    SA    Req    NR
26    Tufts    Req    30        55    VA    Rec    150
27    Mercy    Req    NR        56    Wash    Req     100min
28    Mich    Rec    NR        57    WVA    Req    40
29    Minn    Req    30        58    Marq    Rec    40

An update version from the 2009 ADEA Official Guide to Dental School. Changes are shown in bold.

Does anyone have a updated 2010 or 2011 version would be best.

Originally Posted by nenjakjoe

Does anyone have a updated 2010 or 2011 version would be best.

The file was updated for your convenience, but it's not like there are earthshattering changes. As for the 2011...you will need to wait until the 2011 ADEA guide comes out sometimes in February.

I have 35 hours of shadowing so far. Do I really need more than that? Its not problem if I do. Its just that, my dentist told me that 35 hours is good enough. He told me that he didn't even shadow that many hours.

Originally Posted by mitrieD

I have 35 hours of shadowing so far. Do I really need more than that? Its not problem if I do. Its just that, my dentist told me that 35 hours is good enough. He told me that he didn't even shadow that many hours.

Your dentist is right, however, the 35 hours may or may not meet the recommended/required criteria set by the schools and unless he/she is the Dean of Admission of the dss you intend to apply to you may want to pay more attention to the advice given by those who will be making the final decisions.

bumpp

If you shadow a dentist and helped around the office would youre position title be "intern" or maybe "dental assistant"

I asked the dentist and he didn't really know either what to call it.

Originally Posted by boohoo123

bumpp
If you shadow a dentist and helped around the office would youre position title be "intern" or maybe "dental assistant" I asked the dentist and he didn't really know either what to call it.

If your function was to shadow and had no responsibility than it really doesn't make any difference since shadowing is what it is all about. Incidentally, contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as "intern" in the pre dental school arena.

I am an Foreign Trained Dentist... I've treated several patients while in Final Year and Internship of my BDS (Bachelors in Dental Surgery) in India.

If I want to apply for the Advanced Standing Program, would it still be a requirement to have a certain number of shadow hours, or would it better my chances of getting into a University for the Advanced Standing Program?

Please help me out.
Thanks.

Originally Posted by sk2005-06

I am an Foreign Trained Dentist... I've treated several patients while in Final Year and Internship of my BDS (Bachelors in Dental Surgery) in India. If I want to apply for the Advanced Standing Program, would it still be a requirement to have a certain number of shadow hours, or would it better my chances of getting into a University for the Advanced Standing Program?

Shadowing for you would be beneficial in order to acquaint yourself with how dentistry is practiced here.