Mention child on AMCAS?

DrSteve said:

Hi all-

I'm finishing up my AMCAS and was wondering if any of you who successfully matriculated mentioned your child(ren) on the AMCAS and, if so, where? I feel that being a father has had a significant impact (e.g., maintaining my cool while a 3yo has a meltdown might parallel some physician-patient interactions) and is one of the great joys of my life. On the other hand, I don't want them looking at my app thinking they should discard those from parents.

Any advice?

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Well, the PS or secondary essay is the only place I think this would fit. I doubt you really get either helped or hurt by this, but it could give you something to talk about in an interview if the interviewer is also a parent.

I read another post awhile back where an applicant intended to list parenting as an EC, as it is a very time-consuming activity that explained why he was unable to list as many volunteer, shadowing, etc. hours as a more traditional applicant. Readers of the thread were generally supportive of this approach, to my recall.

Law2Doc said:

Well, the PS or secondary essay is the only place I think this would fit. I doubt you really get either helped or hurt by this, but it could give you something to talk about in an interview if the interviewer is also a parent.

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Agreed on the PS or secondary. It seems you see a link between parenting and a career in medicine, so if you can use that experience to bolster your argument for "Why med school?" then it's worth including. If it becomes too much of a squeeze to get it into your PS, consider it in secondaries, as many do ask pretty broad questions including things like 'what has been your greatest challenge' type prompts.

With respect to the suggestion for it to be an EC, I kind of think you should stick to the traditional ECs for the most part. My sense is schools are looking for pretty specific things there - research/pubs, volunteering, leadership activities. I suspect the "unusual" stuff like parenting, while great, would not get the attention that the more traditional stuff that usually resides on that list. I recall having a tough time with what to exclude since 15 ECs is not that much. If your traditional ECs are strong, you might consider putting it there, but I think the PS and secondary are the best bet. Good luck.

I say forget it unless your child has an unusual, rare, or terrible disease or severe condition, or you have another family hardship that is remarkable and relevant to your pursuit of medicine. If your autistic child is having a meltdown many times daily, that's remarkable; dealing with the occasional shrieking fit is a normal parental activity.

You want to be in control of what is talked about at the interview. The moment you put down the words "family" "wife" "partner" "child" or anything related on your PS or AMCAS, you open the door so that the interviewer can legally focus on those issues to the exclusion of all else. I learned this in my first med school interview when I mentioned the word "boyfriend" and my interviewer kept coming back with more questions about him.

As with any other application for a professional position, I want to know about your desire to do a good job and work hard. I do not want to hear about how you are going to put family first and hope to work part-time. I want the illusion that you will magically and gracefully balance your family and other responsibilities, which most of your interviewers are trying to do; many do not see parental responsibilities as particularly arduous or deserving of extra consideration (particularly if you are a guy).

If you are wearing a wedding ring, I will assume that you have a spouse and perhaps some kids too. If I talk about my 10 kids, you can see that as a welcome entree to mention your own 10.

A common mistake I see in PS is people throwing in all kinds of extraneous crap to try to prove they have leadership or organizational or whatever skills. Let your record speak for itself and keep the PS simple.

p.s. dealing with a shrieking 3-yo is most relevant to dealing with other physicians, not patients.

MeowMix said:

p.s. dealing with a shrieking 3-yo is most relevant to dealing with other physicians, not patients.

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Word.

Can't tell you how many times the words "you need a time out" have nearly come tumbling out of my mouth where I work.

I completely agree with meowmix on this one.....do NOT put your children as an EC and mentioning children in the PS will make some adcoms "roll their eyes" so tread carefully.

im struggling w/ this, too...

i will not put my daughter under ECs, but my personal statement is all about her, pretty much, well....more about my JOURNEY and my story. it's a little unique.

here it is in a nutshell...plz tell me if u think i should include this in my PS.

im from arizona and i had my daughter at 17 years old (obviously not planned). i came to college across the country with her by myself when she was 8 months old to go to a school in massachusetts that offers a single parent program. i live on campus year round w/ her, the school helps w/ tuition costs, daycare, etc. i live w/ another roommate and her child. i have an apartment, but i still have my meal plan at the dining hall, and im still involved in ECs on campus and off campus, too. i didn't start out as a science major or pre-med, but it is really my daughter who motivated me to switch (i explain why, more health issues than anything).

my PS statement is basically about my journey through all this...how ive grown...why it will make me a good doctor...i think it fits well?

JRock310 said:

im struggling w/ this, too...

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to roughly quote Picasso (I think):
I don't want to hear all about the journey you went on; I want to know what you found when you got there.

Be sure that you do not spend all your time detailing your difficulties, struggles, and problems; focus on your strengths, your interests in medicine, and your sense that you have something to offer.

JRock310 said:

im struggling w/ this, too...

i will not put my daughter under ECs, but my personal statement is all about her, pretty much, well....more about my JOURNEY and my story. it's a little unique.

here it is in a nutshell...plz tell me if u think i should include this in my PS.

im from arizona and i had my daughter at 17 years old (obviously not planned). i came to college across the country with her by myself when she was 8 months old to go to a school in massachusetts that offers a single parent program. i live on campus year round w/ her, the school helps w/ tuition costs, daycare, etc. i live w/ another roommate and her child. i have an apartment, but i still have my meal plan at the dining hall, and im still involved in ECs on campus and off campus, too. i didn't start out as a science major or pre-med, but it is really my daughter who motivated me to switch (i explain why, more health issues than anything).

my PS statement is basically about my journey through all this...how ive grown...why it will make me a good doctor...i think it fits well?

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The key is to remind yourself what role the PS serves. The PS is really your first chance to communicate your own compelling story for "Why MD/DO?" It glues together the many ECs, GPAs, volunteering work, personal stories into one directed message about why you want to go to medical school.

In your case, it seems it has certainly altered your life plan, but ask yourself if it directly caused your change in career path. If so, then add it in. I think efex101's advice to tread lightly still applies, but remember, the path to medicine is often less about the experiences and more about what's inside that compelled you through those experiences. Best of luck.

MeowMix said:

to roughly quote Picasso (I think):
I don't want to hear all about the journey you went on; I want to know what you found when you got there.

Be sure that you do not spend all your time detailing your difficulties, struggles, and problems; focus on your strengths, your interests in medicine, and your sense that you have something to offer.

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Heh, in a slightly more medically-related version...
"I don't want to hear about the labor pains, just show me the baby"

makes perfect sense. lol this PS is harder than i thought. i am a really strong writer so i felt like it would be a piece of cake...and to be honest, i really like what ive done w/ it so far...i just have no idea if it's what they are looking for. i feel like i do SHOW not just tell...but the whole point is to explain my situation bc it ties into why im at THIS college (that nobody has ever even heard of bc it's tiny and private, esp bc their pre med program is brand new as of a year ago). haha i dont know, now it's frustrating me.

JRock310 said:

makes perfect sense. lol this PS is harder than i thought. i am a really strong writer so i felt like it would be a piece of cake...and to be honest, i really like what ive done w/ it so far...i just have no idea if it's what they are looking for. i feel like i do SHOW not just tell...but the whole point is to explain my situation bc it ties into why im at THIS college (that nobody has ever even heard of bc it's tiny and private, esp bc their pre med program is brand new as of a year ago). haha i dont know, now it's frustrating me.

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I'm with TBO & MeowMix on this one given what I've heard from admissions offices. The PS is to answer the question: why medicine? Examples are good, I'd suggest sticking with examples that answer the above question rather than ones centered around your journey. (tough to do!)

PS suggest that you not mention the school that you're at to defend your attendance at a small private college in the PS. My understanding is that your grades explain how hard you worked, your MCAT score "defends" your grades if the school (like my post-bacc school) is not nationally known. My opinion is skip it on the PS, too easy to sound defensive or negative when the PS ought to be totally upbeat.

i agree, and i think i wrote that wrong...im not really saying, "this is the only reason im at this school," im just kind of introducing it in the sense that im talking about the program and why i came all the way from AZ to MA.

I did mention my children in my PS for a few reasons. First I know that as a non-trad that family issues are the pink elephant in the room at a med school interview. The adcoms are technically not allowed to ask you if you have or plan to have children or whatnot in an interview, but they sometimes do. I would rather be upfront and address any concerns that an adcom may have about me directly than let them try to make their own judgment about my personal situation.

In my PS I said that I have children, and they will always be a priority to me, but that my husband and I have good plans in place for childcare and studying time and ultimately feel that the sacrafices that we will be making in my time with the kids is justified by the quality of life that I will be able to provide them and the lesson to them that education is very important to us. I also mentioned that I had been in school full time over the last few years with the kids, and that I had been successful there.

Also, like I said, my kids and husband are extremely important to me and I want to make sure that I am going to a school that is family friendly. If they see in my PS that I have kids and don't think that is compatible with their med school for some reason then I don't want to go there.

I do not, however, thing that you should list your children as an extra curricular activity. This would make me roll my eyes too. Now, if you are involved with your child's school PTA or are a den mother/father for the scout troop that is different.

Edit: I wanted to clarify that this was about 3 sentences in my PS, so really I didn't put alot of emphasis on it. Just enough to calm any fears.

Last year I was writing my PS and I asked an adcom specifically about putting kids in your essay. Here was her take on that. She said in and of itself, being a parent is not a problem for your app. What she said is say you have a situation where there is one spot left and two applicants with identical numbers that don't seem any different at all on paper. One is young and unattached and can commit 100% to school, one has heavy financial obligations and a few kids....who do you pick?

She said it may not be right, but there are people out there that SHE KNOWS that would take the single person every time if all others aspects were equal.

I played it safe and did not mention my marriage or two kids (although my AMCAS says 3 dependants, so they can look it up if they want to.) I feel that being a dad is a huge part of who I am, but that I also had more medical related stuff to write about that I needed the adcoms to know about me.

Good luck!

2008orbust said:

She said it may not be right, but there are people out there that SHE KNOWS that would take the single person every time if all others aspects were equal.

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I second this. My advisor was very honest with me: that many of the people that interview or sit on adcoms still prefer young and single b/c of all the extra issue that arise with parenthood. At one interview, the director of admission sat down with us and said that if you don't want to talk about your spouse/family, don't bring up, b/c legally they can't. I didn't quite understand this b/c AMCAS asks us if we have any dependents. But I did notice that at EVERY single one of my interview, they waited for me to bring up the fact that I am a parent. If you write about it in your AMCAS, be prepared for the" how will you handle your child getting sick with the chicken pox for 2 weeks with the rigors of medical school finals coming up, etc."

I don't think you have to explicitly talk about it in an essay. What will shine when you interview is how the experience has changed the way you communicate, and your overall outlook. You will probably come across as more mature b/c you deal with temper tantrums and multitasking in a way that the average 21 year old does not.

Good Luck!!

MeowMix said:

I learned this in my first med school interview when I mentioned the word "boyfriend" and my interviewer kept coming back with more questions about him.

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These are not comparable issues. "Boyfriend" sounds like an immature relationship; parenting is one of the most mature and difficult things we attempt in our lives.

The PS is your ONE chance (in writing and before the interview) to make the adcom BELIEVE that you would be a good fit for medicine. It should NOT recount your EC's, adcoms do not like reading the same thing twice. It SHOULD tell the adcoms WHY YOU are a good fit for this profession and tell them WHY with EXAMPLES. Now, IF having your child completely turned your life around in that they are WHY you chose medicine then yes, maybe mentioning them is relevant.
Adcoms are not stupid! they figure that a non-traditional student is likely going to have a family and this is OKAY IF your grades/mcat/LOR/EC's are equivalent to all the other applicants (regardless of their single vs married vs young vs older status). Adcoms pour over THOUSANDS of applications in detail and will quickly "tune out" a PS that is chock full of details that are not quite relevant to the question they want answered which is WHY medicine and again it should not be a CV of your EC's. This happens a lot! so be careful. The PS and EC AMCAS section are completely different and although they complement each other it should not be the same.

I had a similar situation. I actually spoke with someone at the admission office of my state school and he pretty much told me not to mention I have children unlesss I am ready to discuss it. If you don't bring it up, legally they can't ask you.

With that said, I chose not to take his advice. I stayed home for the better part of a decade to be with my kids, if I didn't mention it I think it would actually have refllected poorly on me. I didn't harp on it, just explained it in my PS.

Also, I think the biggest key is being confident and able to explain that you have thought things through and aren't just rushing into med school without considering the added stress of going through school with a family.

MeowMix said:

You want to be in control of what is talked about at the interview. The moment you put down the words "family" "wife" "partner" "child" or anything related on your PS or AMCAS, you open the door so that the interviewer can legally focus on those issues to the exclusion of all else.

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This is a good point, and when I mentioned my daughter in my PS I did so with the awareness that it could lead to good [for me] discussion in my interviews.

For me, talking about my kids allows me to demonstrate my maturity and life experiences, the thought I've put into this, the steps my wife and I have taken to prepare for how med school/residency/medicine will imact our family, etc. It came up in most of my interviews. I think it was a postitive in most of them, and I don't think it was a negative in any.

But one point that hasn't been made explicitly in this thread is that, unfortunately, this topic raises different issues for women and men. For women, having a kid brings along the whole raft of traditional cultural expectations and questions that I never had to worry about.

That doesn't mean discussing the kids wouldn't be a postitive addition to some women's applications - each of us has to decide on the picture of ourselves we want to put forward - but there's no question that it's a bigger risk for women.

Mr. Hat said:

Feel free to call me naive, but I honestly don't get why ADCOMs would roll their eyes at putting family obligations under the EC section. They wouldn't roll their eyes at me putting that I volunteered time at Boys and Girls Club helping other people's kids, so why would they have a problem with me spending time with my own? Certainly you'd put it down if you spent 20 hours per week playing the violin.... is family less important than playing the violin? I'm somehow getting the impression that worthless crap like being a chess club member is a great EC, but raising kids to be productive members of society is worthless and should not be put down?!?!

ECs are there to show you've done volunteer work, won awards, etc. but I think it's also to demonstrate that you are a well-rounded person who can handle the rigors of medical school. If for instance ADCOMs see that all you did is go to school on your parents' dime and spent no time working, on hobbies, or on other commitments, they're seriously going to wonder how you'll handle the stresses of medical school. For me, leaving out the many hours I spend each week on family obligations would do much less to paint the picture of the "whole" person that I am.

Frankly, at the end of the day, if an ADCOM or a medical school doesn't want me because I have a wife and kids and spend time taking care of/being with them, then that's not a medical school I want to attend.

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The issue here is not that an adcom won't want you because you spend time with your family; I think most of us would agree that this is a good thing. The question is, should you put caring for your children as an EC, as though it were on par with something like joining the chess club. There is just something icky about seeing someone try to quantify the time they spend raising their own kids. Children are (hopefully!) not an optional activity for those of you who have them. It's different if you work in childcare or volunteer with kids because then it really *is* a job to you. You are free to quit at any time; there is no obligation for you to work with other people's children. Working with other people's kids makes you come across as being altruistic. Quantifying the time you spend with your own makes you look cold and calculating.

My advice to anyone wanting to mention their kids would be to discuss it in the PS, as many people have already suggested. It *is* an important topic and worthy of discussing if you choose. However, caring for one's family is *not* an EC, or anything like a regular job that you can quit any time you like, and it shouldn't be cheapened by listing it as such on AMCAS.

I mentioned the fact that I had a child and husband in my PS in a descriptive passage. I may have been awful to interview, and maybe it lost me an acceptance (I still have 1 and that's all I care about!), but it's hard for me to picture "telling someone about myself" without describing my personal life at all. I was quite proud of the fact that I worked full-time, jumped through those pre-med hoops, and parented. I "think" (I can't remember my PS anymore) I at some point mentioned that I felt that my excellent support network -husband, parents, friends- would help me to be a successful student.

I think, whatever you do, you should avoid excusing your grades, your choices, etc, unless you feel an explanation is necessary because of what your AAMCAS says. The PS should be your explanation for why you should get a space. Excusing the past means you can excuse your future, which would scare me if I were an Adcom.

I do think that many schools look at parents/non-trads as a sort of clique in the class population, and would accept say, 6 of us, but they aren't going to stick 30 people over 30 in the same class. I was very much under the impression at my least favorite interview that 3 of us had been invited so they could decide which 1 of 3 female nontrads were going to get a space.

I have to be honest that I didn't read the responses, but I have to say that the first thing that pops into my mind, when I think of your fatherhood is that you have experience where the safety and health of another human being literally depends on you. I mean, I've contemplated being a father from time to time, and wow, it blows my mind how deep a commitment it would be.

My advissor (the director of admissions @ my state med school) personally reviewd my ps and told me I should change it to include my experiences as a mother and my comitment to my family. This emplys patience, nurture, confidence, responsibility... She also stressed that she'de rather pick a student with life experience than a 20 y/o with 4.0, great lor, research... she told me sometimes the people we get here are so "dry" no life or personality and without feeling and/compassion its discusting. So I would absolutely add my family to the ps, after all they are the ones who will be supporting you throughout this journey. Plus as I have changed (to a much better well rounded person) due to my journey as a mother and my experiences I'm sure so have you, and I think this is worth mentioning.
Oh she also told me I should also mention my job as a parent in the "job" section, and not as a ec activity (which is not an ec)

Ebete said:

My advissor (the director of admissions @ my state med school) personally reviewd my ps and told me I should change it to include my experiences as a mother and my comitment to my family. This emplys patience, nurture, confidence, responsibility... She also stressed that she'de rather pick a student with life experience than a 20 y/o with 4.0, great lor, research... she told me sometimes the people we get here are so "dry" no life or personality and without feeling and/compassion its discusting. So I would absolutely add my family to the ps, after all they are the ones who will be supporting you throughout this journey. Plus as I have changed (to a much better well rounded person) due to my journey as a mother and my experiences I'm sure so have you, and I think this is worth mentioning.
Oh she also told me I should also mention my job as a parent in the "job" section, and not as a ec activity (which is not an ec)

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I personally think your advisor went a bit overboard with the job section part. I am due in December and I have huge doubts about putting anything about being a mother on my applications. Especially since I am not married. Medical schools are looking for people they are confident will complete their program, and do so in the time allotted. I don't want to add anything to my application that may give them reason to doubt my ability to handle their curriculum in addition to the demands of parenting. Just my .02

I actually mentioned a traumatic birthing experience in the opening of my AMCAS essay, and it was not mentioned at any of my four interviews. Received three acceptances...