Premedical FAQ

[docB]

This is a work in progress. Comments are welcome and needed!
_________________________________

Q: How do you become a doctor?
A: To become a doctor you have to go to medical school. The usual way to get into medical school is to graduate from high school, go to college and do well enough in your college classes that you get accepted to a medical school. That means that you will spend 4 years in college getting your Bachelor’s degree. That’s the degree you get from graduating from a 4 year college or university such as a Bachelor of Science (BS) or a Bachelor of Arts (BA). You will then spend 4 years in medical school to earn your medical degree.


Q: What is a “Pre med?”
A: A “pre med” is a college student who is planning on going to med schools. Most pre meds major in sciences such as biology or chemistry. It’s certainly not required that you do so. You can major in anything. You do have to take certain courses that are required for med school and the MCAT such as biology, chemistry and physics.


Q: What is the MCAT?
A: It’s the Medical College Admissions Test. Here’s some info: http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/
You are probably familiar with the SAT or the ACT. Those are standardized tests that you take and colleges use them as one part of your application to decide if they want to offer you admission. Professional and graduate schools, the schools you go to after college to be a doctor, lawyer or professor also use standardized tests to rank applicants. Medical schools use the MCAT.


Q: How many medical schools are there?
A: There are 129 medical schools in the US that offer the MD degree and 22 that offer the DO degree.
http://www.aamc.org/medicalschools.htm
http://www.aacom.org/Pages/default.aspx


Q: What is an “MD?”
A: The MD degree is a professional degree that once earned entitles the recipient to be a physician. It stands for “Medical Doctor” or “Doctor of Medicine” depending on which school is granting the degree (the distinction is meaningless). MDs are also called allopathic physicians.


Q: What is a “DO?”
A: The DO degree is a professional degree that once earned entitles the recipient to be a physician. It stands for “Doctor of Osteopathy.” DOs, or osteopaths (MDs are called allopaths), have some segments of their education aimed at musculoskeletal physiology and manipulation and a more patient centered approach to healthcare. The DO degree is slightly less familiar to some people but it entitles the holder to all the same rights and privileges as the MD degree. DOs have parallel boards and certification procedures but they can practice all of the same specialties as any other physician.

Q: What is residency?
A: After medical school the new physician will train in a chosen specialty for several years. Once they have completed this training they are eligible for board certification in that specialty and they are finally done with their education and can independently practice medicine.

Residencies range from 3 to 7 years in length. Some programs incorporate research years which add to the overall length.

As a resident you do get paid. The salaries for most residencies are between $30,000 and $50,000 annually.

Here’s a site where you can search for residencies by place and specialty:
http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/srch/


Q: What is a specialty?
A: A specialty is the type of medicine a physician practices. Some examples are:

Internal Medicine
Family Medicine
Surgery
Pediatrics
Emergency Medicine

To practice a particular specialty the medical school graduate completes a residency in that specialty (see “What is a residency?”).


Q: What is a fellowship?
A: Some specialties require additional training beyond residency. That training is called a fellowship. Most fellowships are 2 to 3 years in length and allow the graduate to take a specialty board exam. Examples are:

Gastroenterology = Internal Medicine + Fellowship
Cardiology = Internal Medicine + Fellowship
Cardiothoracic surgery = Surgery + Fellowship


Q: Does medical school cost a lot?
A: Yes. Most medical students graduate with debt that can reach into the $200,000 range. It is fairly easy to borrow money for medical school. This debt can be deferred (that means you don’t have to start paying it back) through your residency while you are making a meager salary. Once you graduate residency and start working as a doctor you do have to pay those loans back. Payments frequently reach into the thousands of dollars per month.


Q: What is an “attending?”
A: A doctor who is practicing independently and is no longer in training is an attending.


Q: What is a “non-traditional” student?
A: A growing number of students are going to medical school without going through the traditional high school, college, medical school path one after the other. Many students are going to medical school after perusing other careers. These students who tend to be older and, in theory, wiser do tend to bring additional experiences and insights to their practice of medicine. Because they have found medicine through non-traditional pathways they are called “non-traditional” students.


Q: How important are my college grades to getting into medical school?
A: Very important. You will need to make good grades and do well on the MCAT to be a competitive applicant to medical school. Extra curricular activities like volunteering at hospitals, doing research, joining clubs and so forth help but will not overcome poor grades or scores.


Q: What is a “pre-acceptance” program.
A: There are some programs that provide provisional early acceptance to medical school. These programs accept students high school seniors similar to traditional colleges. In these programs you are required to maintain certain grades and meet other criteria and if you do you are guaranteed a spot in med school.
Here is a link to a section of Aspire with more info:


Q: What is a “combined program.”
A: There are some programs that give you your bachelor’s degree and your medical degree in an expedited program. These programs usually graduate doctors after 6 or 7 years as opposed to the traditional 8. The up side of these programs is that if you know that you want to practice medicine you will be a doctor sooner. The primary down side is that you are committing to a long program with less flexibility than a traditional undergraduate term.

Note that this “combined program” refers to the combination of college and medical school. The “combined degree” programs mentioned below are very different. They combine medical school and graduate school and are for college graduates, not high school students.
Here is a link to a section of Aspire with more info:


Q: What is a "combined degree" program?
A: Generally speaking, a combined–degree program or a dual–degree program in the context of medical school is one that allows you to get a second degree concurrently while you get your MD, DO. These programs are for students who have already (or will have already) graduated from college with a bachelor’s degree and for various reasons wish to pursue medicine and an academic discipline. There are plenty of official combined degree programs out there. The most common second degrees are PhD, MPH, MBA, JD, and MEd. Many schools have formal dual–degree programs that may require additional components for your application, so it is important to be prepared if you are considering applying to any of those programs.


For more information on specific schools or programs, check this website:
AAMC directory of combined degree programs

Q: What is 'shadowing' and how is it different than volunteering? What are you allowed to see and do?
A: Physician shadowing is an important activity for pre-med students. When shadowing you follow a doctor around and observe their interactions with patients in a variety of settings to give you the best picture of what medicine is really like. Unlike volunteering, there are no physical expectations of you. Your sole responsibilities are to observe and follow the instructions of the physician.

Every shadowing experience is unique. Most physicians will let you see most everything they do, as long as the patient is comfortable with it. There are however some exams that are personal and the physician or patient may not be comfortable with your presence. It is important to remember that patient care always comes first. The activities you partake in are also unique with each experience. Some doctors will pull you in to see closer, and may let you listen to interesting heart sounds, some may have you simply observe.

[SomeDoc]

Originally Posted by docB

Q: What is a “DO?”
A: The DO degree is a professional degree that once earned entitles the recipient to be a physician. It stands for “Doctor of Osteopathy.” DOs, or osteopaths (MDs are called allopaths), have some segments of their education aimed at musculoskeletal physiology and manipulation and a more patient centered approach to healthcare. The DO degree is slightly less familiar to some people but it entitles the holder to all the same rights and privileges as the MD degree. DOs have parallel boards and certification procedures but they can practice all of the same specialties as any other physician.

Additional clarifications:

DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

In addition, DO's are eligible to take the allopathic (MD) board examinations in order to apply to and participate in ACGME (MD) residency programs.

[Tired]

Originally Posted by docB

Residencies range from 3 to 5 years in length. Some programs incorporate research years which add to the overall length.

More accurate to say 3 to 7 years in length (my own is 6).

There are still a handful of programs out there, primarily in the surgical subspecialties, that do not have a defined end-date, but that's probably not important for the purposes of this FAQ.

You also might mention the concept of Fellowships, since we still get a lot of questions in the Surgery forums about "residency" for fields like CT Surgery.

[docB]

Originally Posted by Tired

More accurate to say 3 to 7 years in length (my own is 6).

There are still a handful of programs out there, primarily in the surgical subspecialties, that do not have a defined end-date, but that's probably not important for the purposes of this FAQ.

You also might mention the concept of Fellowships, since we still get a lot of questions in the Surgery forums about "residency" for fields like CT Surgery.

I left out any reference to the research years for the sake of brevity. I think a discussion of fellowships would be great. Any takers?

[Tired]

Originally Posted by docB

I left out any reference to the research years for the sake of brevity. I think a discussion of fellowships would be great. Any takers?

Research years are not always optional (like in my program).

Also, not uncommon for Neurosurg to go 6y, even leaving out the research year.

[docB]

Great. Someone with mod powers in here can change it.

[HumidBeing]

Done.

[Freak705]

Not so much a comment but a quick question: For applying to medical school, what is appropriate to list as previous experience in terms of the timeframe it was done? I know medical schools want to hear about your experiences as an adult, so would that mean anything I've done before undergrad would not be reasonable to list, even if I was legally an adult taking a year between high school and university?

[Depakote]

Originally Posted by Freak705

Not so much a comment but a quick question: For applying to medical school, what is appropriate to list as previous experience in terms of the timeframe it was done? I know medical schools want to hear about your experiences as an adult, so would that mean anything I've done before undergrad would not be reasonable to list, even if I was legally an adult taking a year between high school and university?

There's a specific format for listing extra-curricular activities. Age isn't a factor (so not being legally an adult isn't so much of an issue), but when the activity was done. They look at it in the context of your education, so anything you started after completing HS is fair game (or anything you started in HS and continued to be involved in after graduation).

(yes, I know I grammared that awesomely... but hopefully you can discern what I'm trying to say through my ramblings)

[Depakote]

Q: What residencies are there and how long are they?

A: Here's a good list:

Emergency Medicine 3-4 years
Family Practice 3 years
Internal Medicine 3 years
Pediatrics 3 years
Obstetrics-Gynecology 4 years
Pathology 4 years
Psychiatry 4 years
General Surgery 5 years
Neurological Surgery 6 years (includes 1 year of general surgery)
Orthopaedic Surgery 5 years (includes 1 year of general surgery)
Otolaryngology 5 years (includes 1 year of general surgery)
Urology 5 years (includes 1 year of general surgery)
Plastic Surgery 5-6 years (includes 3 years of general surgery)
Anesthesiology 3 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Dermatology 3 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Neurology 3 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Ophthalmology 3 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Physical Medicine 3 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Diagnostic Radiology 4 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Radiation Oncology 4 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Transitional/Preliminary 1 year

Now this is not a list of every medical specialty out there. To enter many specialties, you must complete a residency and then a fellowship.

[malfee]

From what I understand, to eventually get to Sports Medicine status I need to first complete a residency in Internal Medicine, correct?

[Depakote]

Originally Posted by malfee

From what I understand, to eventually get to Sports Medicine status I need to first complete a residency in Internal Medicine, correct?

You can enter sports medicine from one of multiple fields.

Orthopedic Surgery is a popular route, but according to wiki you can do a sports medicine fellowship from any of the following fields: family practice, internal medicine, emergency medicine, pediatrics or physical medicine and rehabilitation.

(but yes, you'd need to do one of the above residencies first before completing the sports medicine fellowship)

[malfee]

Originally Posted by Depakote

You can enter sports medicine from one of multiple fields.

Orthopedic Surgery is a popular route, but according to wiki you can do a sports medicine fellowship from any of the following fields: family practice, internal medicine, emergency medicine, pediatrics or physical medicine and rehabilitation.

(but yes, you'd need to do one of the above residencies first before completing the sports medicine fellowship)

Ahh, ok, I like it better that I have multiple routes to take than being restricted to just Internal. I'm not too fond of surgery and don't really wish to be a surgical doctor, so I suppose I'll not even bother with Ortho Surgery. :P Thanks!

[Terpskins99]

Originally Posted by malfee

Ahh, ok, I like it better that I have multiple routes to take than being restricted to just Internal. I'm not too fond of surgery and don't really wish to be a surgical doctor, so I suppose I'll not even bother with Ortho Surgery. :P Thanks!

Based on what I've seen, the majority of sports medicine fellows come from family medicine residency. It is generally considered an extension of primary care because its focus is exclusively outpatient (in a clinic, not hospital based).

Internal Medicine, on the other hand, focuses on inpatient care. And speaking of which, I wouldn't cut internal medicine short. It is by no means a restricting field. Many of the most popular specialties (cardiology, gastroenterology, nephrology, hematology/oncology, infectious disease) are only obtainable through internal medicine. You can go in a million directions from IM, including sports medicine. Not surprisingly, there are far more people trained in internal medicine than in any other residency.

[malfee]

I'm not completely and absolutely set on Sports Medicine, but it is my number one choice as of right now. The original post suggested using http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/srch/ to search for residencies or fellowships, so I was just messing around and decided to search for Sports Medicine. However, I've come to a standstill. On their list for subspecialties, they list Sports Medicine twice, once with (EM) and once with (FM) after it. What do these two acronyms stand for?

[Depakote]

Originally Posted by malfee

I'm not completely and absolutely set on Sports Medicine, but it is my number one choice as of right now. The original post suggested using http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/srch/ to search for residencies or fellowships, so I was just messing around and decided to search for Sports Medicine. However, I've come to a standstill. On their list for subspecialties, they list Sports Medicine twice, once with (EM) and once with (FM) after it. What do these two acronyms stand for?

I suspect that it means you can enter the Sports Medicine fellowship from Emergency Medicine (EM) or Family Medicine (FM).

[malfee]

Originally Posted by Depakote

I suspect that it means you can enter the Sports Medicine fellowship from Emergency Medicine (EM) or Family Medicine (FM).

Ahh, that would indeed make sense. I can't be I overlooked that, haha. Thanks.

[Aj87]

hi, i got some questions. from reading this post I understand that you have to take biology, chemistry and physics in college and u can choose which ever major u want.

My questions are (they might sound stupid, but I really have no idea on what to do)


when i find a college, how do i apply?

how to let them know? do i say i want to become a doctor? or tell them what course i want to take?
or do i pick a major and then add in biology, chemistry and physics?

Thank you,

[Caesar]

Originally Posted by Aj87

hi, i got some questions. from reading this post I understand that you have to take biology, chemistry and physics in college and u can choose which ever major u want.

My questions are (they might sound stupid, but I really have no idea on what to do)


when i find a college, how do i apply?

how to let them know? do i say i want to become a doctor? or tell them what course i want to take?
or do i pick a major and then add in biology, chemistry and physics?

Thank you,

answered via PM

[thcmarhk]

I am sure a lot of people have asked the question that I am asking so I'm sorry but I still want to ask:

What is the recommended major if you want to become a physician, pediatrics, or surgeon??? I've read that you can major in whatever you want but to me it's just weird because isn't it possible that the courses that you've chosen for your major may not be the pre-requisites for medical school.

[Leefa]

This is an excellent comprehensive FAQ, I had to look in many different places to find most of this information out.
Could you expand on the lengths of residencies and fellowships? What other specialties require fellowships? What is an internship, other than just the first year of residency (as far as i know)?

[Depakote]

Originally Posted by thcmarhk

I am sure a lot of people have asked the question that I am asking so I'm sorry but I still want to ask:

What is the recommended major if you want to become a physician, pediatrics, or surgeon??? I've read that you can major in whatever you want but to me it's just weird because isn't it possible that the courses that you've chosen for your major may not be the pre-requisites for medical school.

You really can major in anything you want as long as you take a few required classes. You can take these even if they required in your major. For example, I was a liberal arts major.

Once you're in medical school, you'll be taught everything you need to know for your career in medicine (whichever field you decide on)... your college major will provide little useful knowledge in your ultimate career. If you did something fun and relevant, if might push you into a related field (i.e. if you majored in psychology because you loved it, you might wind up in psychiatry).

Originally Posted by Leefa

This is an excellent comprehensive FAQ, I had to look in many different places to find most of this information out.
Could you expand on the lengths of residencies and fellowships? What other specialties require fellowships? What is an internship, other than just the first year of residency (as far as i know)?

An intern year is first year after medical school. It can be done in internal medicine or surgery. It may be part of an internal medicine/surgery residency or it may be a requirement before you can start a residency such as Anesthesiology, Radiology, etc.

The length of a residency varies depending on the specialty you want to go into. Some are longer than others depending on the degree of training you need to become proficient in that field. Here's the list I posted earlier for reference:

Emergency Medicine 3-4 years
Family Practice 3 years
Internal Medicine 3 years
Pediatrics 3 years
Obstetrics-Gynecology 4 years
Pathology 4 years
Psychiatry 4 years
General Surgery 5 years
Neurological Surgery 6 years (includes 1 year of general surgery)
Orthopaedic Surgery 5 years (includes 1 year of general surgery)
Otolaryngology 5 years (includes 1 year of general surgery)
Urology 5 years (includes 1 year of general surgery)
Plastic Surgery 5-6 years (includes 3 years of general surgery)
Anesthesiology 3 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Dermatology 3 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Neurology 3 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Ophthalmology 3 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Physical Medicine 3 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Diagnostic Radiology 4 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Radiation Oncology 4 years plus PGY-1 Transitional/Preliminary
Transitional/Preliminary 1 year


Fellowships are required to enter subspecialties of the above fields. Fellowship training can take 1-3 years (maybe longer?) Sports medicine would be a subspecialty that requires a fellowship (it can be entered from multiple fields). Hematology/Oncology, Cardiology, Infectious Diseases are all subspecialties that can be entered with fellowships out of internal medicine. (or pediatrics).

[niranjan162]

I would say this thread should be stickied but since nobody reads them I think we should just bump it to the top every now and then

[Depakote]

Originally Posted by niranjan162

I would say this thread should be stickied but since nobody reads them I think we should just bump it to the top every now and then

There are a lot of such FAQs and we cant have them all stickied. There is a master sticky: Important hSDN Threads and FAQs You Should Read

[yanorglu]

Mind if I add a few which tend to be asked often in hSDN?


Q: Does the ranking of my undergrad institution matter?/This school on the other side of the country ranks 2 spots higher than my state school for the major I want, should I go there?/Do I need to go to an Ivy?
A: The ranking and prestige of your 4-year university aren't anywhere near as important as your GPA and MCAT scores. Between someone with a 3.8 GPA/34 MCAT from Cow-Tipping State University and someone with a 2.4 GPA/26 MCAT from Johns Hopkins, the former is going to be the one to get into some of the med schools he applied to.


Q: I screwed up in high school/can't afford a 4-year straight away. Is it okay if I go to a community college and then transfer?
A: Yes. As long as you finish up at a 4-year, and possibly take some higher-level courses once there to solidify the fact that you learned the material well and deserved those grades, most med schools won't even bring it up. What is not acceptable is taking prereqs at a community college while already enrolled at a 4-year school.


Q: If I get into a top school, they'll be lenient on my stats when applying to med schools, right?
A: No. Again, the size of your numbers are far more important than where you got them.


Q: Is it okay if I want to major in [blah] instead of Biology/Chemistry?
A: Yes. Given you take the med school prerequisites, your major can be whatever you like.


Q: If I choose a really hard major, they'll be lenient on my stats when applying to med schools, right?
A: Unfortunately, no. So think twice about that Biomedical Engineering and Neuroscience double major.

[AndrewWilsonnn]

Honestly, Sticky this, and add onto it later. This is perfect for a bunch of people

[jason3278]

Originally Posted by SomeDoc

Additional clarifications:

DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

In addition, DO's are eligible to take the allopathic (MD) board examinations in order to apply to and participate in ACGME (MD) residency programs.

and please do not refer to us as "osteopaths"