MD versus DO

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so i'm stuck on the fence... i'm still a couple years away from applying, but by the time i apply my stats will most likely mean i'd have a better shot at a DO school than an allopathic school.

what are some differences people don't usually talk about?
as far as earnings go, how different are they?
i hate to use the word business when describing a practice, but what's business like as a DO versus an MD?
anything else i should keep in mind?

btw, sorry for the double post, but i realized this may not be the most appropriate place for this discussion on this forum so if there's anywhere else i can look or post this, let me know. thanks.

Just do your best in school and rock the MCAT and I'm sure you can still go MD. If not, there is all kinds of info out there about osteopathy (or the Caribbean). I'd start by googling it.

Originally Posted by guitarsolostogo

what are some differences people don't usually talk about?

International practice rights is the only real world difference that immediately comes to mind when thinking about D.O. versus M.D.

There are a number of countries that do not allow U.S. trained D.O.s to practice medicine. If you have intentions on practicing outside of the U.S., that would be something to look into when making a decision.

your degree (MD/DO) does not play any role in your pay check. they are the same.

i'm not sure what you are referring to when you talk about the "business" of a DO vs an MD. business is run the same.

Originally Posted by Decicco

Just do your best in school and rock the MCAT and I'm sure you can still go MD. If not, there is all kinds of info out there about osteopathy (or the Caribbean). I'd start by googling it.

The OP said they are on the fence, not that they desperately wanted to go MD over DO, it's osteopathic medicine and not osteopathy, and no one brought the Caribbean up except you ... just refrain from these posts if your only advice is this ****.


And yes OP this is a worn out issue and posted in the wrong place. Ask a mod to close it.

Originally Posted by JaggerPlate

The OP said they are on the fence, not that they desperately wanted to go MD over DO, it's osteopathic medicine and not osteopathy, and no one brought the Caribbean up except you

Hi! Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I forgot that this is a touchy subject for some people so maybe I should have chosen my words better. The OP said that the way things are going he has a greater shot at DO than MD, so I encouraged him to try his best and he may have a better shot at MD than he thinks. I think the Caribbean would definitely be something to consider if he finds himself in this situation, but he should consider osteopathy too (again, I used this word correctly).
Thanks!

Originally Posted by Decicco

Hi! Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I forgot that this is a touchy subject for some people so maybe I should have chosen my words better. The OP said that the way things are going he has a greater shot at DO than MD, so I encouraged him to try his best and he may have a better shot at MD than he thinks. I think the Caribbean would definitely be something to consider if he finds himself in this situation, but he should consider osteopathy too (again, I used this word correctly).
Thanks!

Nope. It's osteopathic medicine. Osteopathy is an outdated term that refers more to the manipulation aspect of Osteopathic medicine. DOs can practice in any field of medicine that an MD can and even apply for any MD residency. You should know this ... get off your high horse, and quit blatantly bashing something you clearly don't know much about.

How is he bashing? He is just incorrectly using the term osteopathy to represent DOs.

Originally Posted by Lokhtar

How is he bashing? He is just incorrectly using the term osteopathy to represent DOs.

I personally think he/she is bashing because I already gave him/her the correct term and he/she still chose to use osteopathy and even point out the fact that he/she was using that term.

Maybe something that the OP can learn from this is the forcefulness by which some proponents of osteopathy defend themselves.

National Institute of Health: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002020.htm
This entry is current as of 7/23/2007 and written by a DO.

Originally Posted by Decicco

Maybe something that the OP can learn from this is the forcefulness by which some proponents of osteopathy defend themselves.

National Institute of Health: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002020.htm
This entry is current as of 7/23/2007 and written by a DO.

First sentence of your link:

"A doctor of osteopathic medicine (D.O.) is a physician licensed to perform surgery and prescribe medication. Like an M.D., an osteopathic physician completes 4 years of medical school and can choose to practice in any specialty of medicine. However, osteopathic physicians receive an additional 300 to 500 hours in the study of hands-on manual medicine and the body's musculoskeletal system."

soooo ... I guess like I've said 200 times, it is doctor of osteopathic medicine. They don't practice 'Osteopathy.' I don't understand your problem with this concept, but keep going if it's getting you off.

Check the title of that entry. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Decicco

Check the title of that entry. Thanks.

Ummm doesn't the first line of the article state that the degree is 'Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine?' Weird. I mean technically you can title an article anything. I could call an article 'Narrow minded pre-meds on SDN' and then it's content could be about something entirely different. Seems like content trumps catchy titles in my opinion. It is interesting that you have such resentment for DO schools though. I have my guesses ...

Okay, I've edited this like three times now, but I just went back and read the article and I honestly can't find the word 'Osteopathy' anywhere:

A doctor of osteopathic medicine (D.O.) is a physician licensed to perform surgery and prescribe medication. Like an M.D., an osteopathic physician completes 4 years of medical school and can choose to practice in any specialty of medicine. However, osteopathic physicians receive an additional 300 to 500 hours in the study of hands-on manual medicine and the body's musculoskeletal system.


Osteopathic medicine is dedicated to treating and healing the entire patient as a whole, rather than focusing on one system or body part. An osteopathic physician will often use a treatment method called manipulation -- a hands-on approach to assure that the body is moving freely. This free motion ensures that all of your body's natural healing systems are free to work unhindered.


Osteopathic physicians hold to the principle that a patient's history of illness and physical trauma are written into the body's structure. The osteopathic physician's highly developed sense of touch allows the physician to palpate (feel) the patient's "living anatomy" (the flow of fluids, motion and texture of tissues, and structural make-up).


The osteopathic physician's job is to "set" the body to heal itself. To do so, the osteopathic physician gently applies a precise amount of force to promote healthy movement of tissues, eliminate abnormal movements, and release compressed bones and joints. In addition, the areas being treated require proper positioning to assist the body's ability to regain normal tissue function. This process is called osteopathic manual medicine (OMM) or osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT).


Over the years, the gap between "conventional" medicine and osteopathic medicine has narrowed, as M.D.s have embraced many of the premises of osteopathic medicine (such as recognizing the impact of stress on the immune system or posture on various body systems). In addition, D.O.s have incorporated the diagnostic and treatment techniques common to conventional medicine.


Doctors of osteopathic medicine may be found in nearly any health care setting, from community clinics and private practices to academic medical centers.
Like M.D.s, osteopathic physicians are licensed at the state level. Osteopathic physicians who wish to specialize may become "board certified" (in much the same manner as M.D.s) by completing a 2- to 6-year residency within the specialty area and passing the board certification exams.



Would you care to share why you feel so negatively towards DO schools (this will also help confirm or deny my previous assumptions)??



THANKS

I used the neat "find" function that Internet Explorer has and found two occurrences of the word "osteopathy." That seems like two too many for a word that is apparently "outdated." Maybe you should contact the DO who wrote this for the NIH last year and tell him that modern DOs are super-sensitive about these attacks on their profession.

Originally Posted by Decicco

I used the neat "find" function that Internet Explorer has and found two occurrences of the word "osteopathy." That seems like two too many for a word that is apparently "outdated." Maybe you should contact the DO who wrote this for the NIH last year and tell him that modern DOs are super-sensitive about these attacks on their profession.

Man that is so weird because I just did the exact same search on the ARTICLE that the DO wrote, not the encyclopedia classification of the article, or the article title and turned up ' 0 results.' I got a ton for 'Osteopathic Physician' though. I guess, like I said the entire time, the actual doctor referred to his title as 'Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.' So ... once again, you were incorrect and have still failed to provide a reason for you own super-sensitivity towards accepting Osteopathic physicians as Allopathic counterparts. I am impressed with your use of technology though ... quite impressed.

So the NIH encyclopedia "classification" is wrong? Anyway, I've grown tired of this argument and its not helping the OP so I'm done with it. In response to the above post, I do believe that DOs are "counterparts" to MDs (virtually equivalent), despite what some proponents of osteopathy would have you believe via their incessant defensiveness.
Have a good day.

Originally Posted by Decicco

So the NIH encyclopedia "classification" is wrong? Anyway, I've grown tired of this argument and its not helping the OP so I'm done with it. In response to the above post, I do believe that DOs are "counterparts" to MDs (virtually equivalent), despite what some proponents of osteopathy would have you believe via their incessant defensiveness.
Have a good day.

Just can't quite let it go can ya. I'm done with this argument as well. I think we actually agree on more points that one would assume -namely that the medical training MDs and DOs receive is virtually identical and the people who try to separate themselves via the (osteopathy) manipulation aspect shouldn't be so crazed about it-. Regardless, I'm glad you see the counterpart thing and I won't post here again.

lol this guys seems like a very pleasant person

Behave.

For whats its worth, in the AOA's extensive glossary it is listed as Osteopathy (osteopathic medicine). It says neither term is correct over the other. However, the general consensus I have seen is that osteopathy is archaic and osteopathic medicine should now be used in order to avoid any confusion among the general public.

To the OP and to remain on topic, there is no difference except the addition of OMM and the limited practice rights around the world, although these rights are changing.

Originally Posted by Bacchus

For whats its worth, in the AOA's extensive glossary it is listed as Osteopathy (osteopathic medicine). It says neither term is correct over the other. However, the general consensus I have seen is that osteopathy is archaic and osteopathic medicine should now be used in order to avoid any confusion among the general public.

How is the general public supposed to keep up with all these changes in terminology? Des Moines University, the DO school in my state, has had six different names. People around here don't know what to call it. This, despite all the money they spend on advertising in my state.

1. Dr. SS Still College of Osteopathy
2. Still College
3. Des Moines Still College of Osteopathy and Surgery
4. College of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery
5. University of Osteopathic Medicine and Health Sciences
6. Des Moines University

Well,

1. Homeopathic Medical College of Pennsylvania, 1848-1869
2. Hahnemann Medical College, 1867-1982
3. Hahnemann University, 1982-1993
4. MCP Hahnemann School of Medicine, 1993-1996
5. Allegheny University of the Health Sciences, 1996-1998
6. MCP Hahnemann University School of Medicine, 1998-2002
7. Drexel University School of Medicine 2002-Present

Drexel is now homeopathic?

I can't speak to the general public, but people on this board when giving advice, especially after being asked to use the correct term, should do so. Or you are just perpetuating misinformation.

Originally Posted by Lokhtar

I can't speak to the general public, but people on this board when giving advice, especially after being asked to use the correct term, should do so. Or you are just perpetuating misinformation.

From what I understand, Drexel no longer teaches homeopathy as they once did. DMU continues to teach osteopathy. I'm not willing to argue with you about terms anymore. Besides among a few internet sensationalits, the term is still in common and accepted usage. My post was more about how it is confusing to change names a lot, and that would apply to Drexel too (although I thought that had something to do with mergers, etc...).

Originally Posted by Decicco

Besides among a few internet sensationalits, the term is still in common and accepted usage.

You are obviously free to call it whatever you want. I cannot speak to its commonality, but it is rarely used among the DO community itself, but it's up to you what you want to do.

Woah. I was just delivering what I found. The push within the profession, or what I have witnessed, is that if you throw medicine in the title the general public will be more receptive, thats all.

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Woah. I was just delivering what I found. The push within the profession, or what I have witnessed, is that if you throw medicine in the title the general public will be more receptive, thats all.

You were just caught in the crossfire, I agreed with what you said. The internets make me ruthless sometimes, my apologies

Originally Posted by Decicco

From what I understand, Drexel no longer teaches homeopathy as they once did. DMU continues to teach osteopathy. I'm not willing to argue with you about terms anymore. Besides among a few internet sensationalits, the term is still in common and accepted usage. My post was more about how it is confusing to change names a lot, and that would apply to Drexel too (although I thought that had something to do with mergers, etc...).

I said I wasn't going to argue in this thread anymore, but I just wanted to bring up a few points:

-You would call DMU the name that it was changed to in 1999. It has been pointed out (via the Drexel example) that medical schools change their names all the time. This trend isn't specific to DO schools, and clearly doesn't represent a miscommunication.

-I still don't understand what you mean when you say they teach 'Osteopathy?' Do you mean manipulation?? Because if this is the case, yes ... all DO schools teach Osteopathic Manipulation along with the normal curriculum.

-I'm also curious how you know what DMU teaches without attending.

-People have also pointed out that the term Osteopathy is outdated and just because it is used by certain people does NOT mean it is a term projected by the DO community. I also wanted to point out that in your DMU example, the term Osteopathy hasn't been used in the title of the school since 1898. Since then it has been 'Osteopathic Medicine.' How does this not demonstrate an outdated term that is no longer used??

-You also still never stated why you're so driven to use the term Osteopathy (despite numerous people saying it is Osteopathic Medicine) and why you seem to have such a negative opinion of DO schools in general without really knowing much about them??

I think answering any of these questions would clarify (for me at least) why you feel this way about Osteopathic Medicine.

Originally Posted by JaggerPlate

I said I wasn't going to argue in this thread anymore, but I just wanted to bring up a few points:

I too said that I wasn't going to argue about the term 'osteopathy' any more and I am going to stick by that.

Originally Posted by JaggerPlate

-You would call DMU the name that it was changed to in 1999. It has been pointed out (via the Drexel example) that medical schools change their names all the time. This trend isn't specific to DO schools, and clearly doesn't represent a miscommunication.

Yes, it is called DMU. I don't know anything about DO trends (and am not familiar with the "DO community" you refer to later), just that DMU advertises a lot and that its name changed more than the average medical school, and seemingly without reason. In the Drexel example, that school was partnering and merging with different hospitals, etc, and its name change reflected that. DMU has a mixed reputation in Des Moines. But, it has regained some of it through advertising and electing Terry Branstad as their president. Heck, they even got some politicians to come talk there (no big names though) during the caucus season.

Originally Posted by JaggerPlate

why you seem to have such a negative opinion of DO schools in general without really knowing much about them??

I don't have a negative opinion about them in the same way that I don't have a negative opinion about dental school--I just know that they aren't for me.

Originally Posted by Decicco

I too said that I wasn't going to argue about the term 'osteopathy' any more and I am going to stick by that.

Okay, that's up to you. I do think that the preferred term is 'Osteopathic Medicine,' but once again if you don't want to give your reasons ... that's your call.

Originally Posted by Decicco

Yes, it is called DMU. I don't know anything about DO trends (and am not familiar with the "DO community" you refer to later), just that DMU advertises a lot and that its name changed more than the average medical school, and seemingly without reason. In the Drexel example, that school was partnering and merging with different hospitals, etc, and its name change reflected that. DMU has a mixed reputation in Des Moines. But, it has regained some of it through advertising and electing Terry Branstad as their president. Heck, they even got some politicians to come talk there (no big names though) during the caucus season.

I don't know much about DMU, I was simply using it because it was previously brought up. I hear good things from the students though.

Originally Posted by JaggerPlate

Okay, that's up to you. I do think that the preferred term is 'Osteopathic Medicine,' but once again if you don't want to give your reasons ... that's your call.

My main complaint is with the term "allopathic." Without starting a new tangent on this thread, I will refer you to a journal article.
Arch Intern Med. 1998 Nov 9;158(20):2185-6.
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...ct/158/20/2185

Originally Posted by Decicco

You were just caught in the crossfire, I agreed with what you said. The internets make me ruthless sometimes, my apologies

I did get rid of my other signature But that wasn't just for you.

Originally Posted by Decicco

My main complaint is with the term "allopathic." Without starting a new tangent on this thread, I will refer you to a journal article.
Arch Intern Med. 1998 Nov 9;158(20):2185-6.
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...ct/158/20/2185

So it would probably irritate you if people continually called you an 'Allopath' despite not being the preferred term?? It's extreme, but basically the same situation with Osteopathy.

I think allopathy is OK - if that's your sort of thing, of course.

Originally Posted by Decicco

The internets make me ruthless sometimes, my apologies

LMAO Decicco actually is "special"; cut him some slack already.

This thread is no longer on track and has only caused arguments after the OP received his answer. For differences (real and perceived) about DOs and MDs please consult the DO FAQ in the pre-osteopathic forum. If you have anymore questions please employ the search function. Best of luck!

Link: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=240220

this thread is horribly off track.

OP, you'll be better off finding information using the Search function or looking in the Pre-Osteopathic FAQ

closing.