8 in verbal no longer competitive!?

[LostLost]

I used an old MSAR i had and I looked at a new one, a lot of schools are cutting off at 9. And in Rush's email they say the Predict everybody will have at least a 10 wtf?! I guess things are getting competitive every year.

[fuzzywuz]

Same thing with getting a 30, its not so competitive anymore...

[phospho]

Originally Posted by fuzzywuz

Same thing with getting a 30, its not so competitive anymore...

I think it's a lot more competitive than most people on SDN make it out to be. As long as the 30 is balanced, with decent letters, ugrad GPA, science GPA, a "normal personality", an early application, and choosing a variety of medical schools, it's really hard to be completely unsuccessful in a cycle.

[lacrossestar86]

Originally Posted by LostLost

I used an old MSAR i had and I looked at a new one, a lot of schools are cutting off at 9. And in Rush's email they say the Predict everybody will have at least a 10 wtf?! I guess things are getting competitive every year.

8 VR is the statistical average, average is never competitive by definition... But I got a 8VR and ended up in a great school so relax

[Lokhtar]

Originally Posted by fuzzywuz

Same thing with getting a 30, its not so competitive anymore...

A lot more people get in with a 30 than don't, so it's definitely competitive.

[doodlesmcdoodle]

I read this article called "The Median Isn't the Message" written by Stephen Jay Gould actually for an Ecology class. I think that anyone who is feeling weighed down by the statistics should read the article. It's a good one...

[Depakote]

If you have a strong composite score and GPA, an 8 in VR won't be the death of your application at most places, but I would expect it to be considered a weakness of your application.

Be aware that some places weight sections of the MCAT more than others... just from posts on SDN and conversations with my classmates (totally anecdotal evidence), I suspect my school places a higher emphasis on BS and PS and a relatively low emphasis on VR. That said, everyone I know that got in with a low VR score did so from the wait-list (again, anecdotal).

[Depakote]

Originally Posted by Depakote

If you have a strong composite score and GPA, an 8 in VR won't be the death of your application at most places, but I would expect it to be considered a weakness of your application.

Be aware that some places weight sections of the MCAT more than others... just from posts on SDN and conversations with my classmates (totally anecdotal evidence), I suspect my school places a higher emphasis on BS and PS and a relatively low emphasis on VR. That said, everyone I know that got in with a low VR score did so from the wait-list (again, anecdotal).

the follow-up thought to that would be, to know that some schools might very well weight VR the most heavily in which case you're in trouble.

[216397]

If you have high scores on the other MCAT sections, I think you'll be fine for sure. On the other hand, having a high VR can be a HUGE asset to an applicant, because a lot of premed students have a harder time with it! That's just my take on it, anyway.

[greg1184]

Originally Posted by fuzzywuz

Same thing with getting a 30, its not so competitive anymore...

Only on SDN.

[RySerr21]

Originally Posted by fuzzywuz

Same thing with getting a 30, its not so competitive anymore...

true that.......30s might as well just apply carib.

[Livingapparatus]

Originally Posted by phospho

I think it's a lot more competitive than most people on SDN make it out to be. As long as the 30 is balanced, with decent letters, ugrad GPA, science GPA, a "normal personality", an early application, and choosing a variety of medical schools, it's really hard to be completely unsuccessful in a cycle.

qft

[NonTradMed]

8 is not a 'competitive' score for VR since it is below average for matriculating students, but it won't kill your application either. SDN tends to give the impression that anything less than a steller application will exile you to the Carribeans. After I got into med school, I was often surprised by the "mediocre" scores that some of my friends got. Of course, that doesn't mean having a average or below average score will get you in, it's just that people had something else going for them to compensate for a below average stats. Don't fret if your stuff isn't perfect. See if you can make up the deficiency with something else.

[mbe36]

What would you consider a cut-off for PS to be?

[fuzzywuz]

Originally Posted by NonTradMed

8 is not a 'competitive' score for VR since it is below average for matriculating students, but it won't kill your application either. SDN tends to give the impression that anything less than a steller application will exile you to the Carribeans. After I got into med school, I was often surprised by the "mediocre" scores that some of my friends got. Of course, that doesn't mean having a average or below average score will get you in, it's just that people had something else going for them to compensate for a below average stats. Don't fret if your stuff isn't perfect. See if you can make up the deficiency with something else.

Your comments made me a feel a tad better. Thanks!

[JaggerPlate]

Originally Posted by LostLost

I used an old MSAR i had and I looked at a new one, a lot of schools are cutting off at 9. And in Rush's email they say the Predict everybody will have at least a 10 wtf?! I guess things are getting competitive every year.

If you think about having a balanced MCAT, aren't you basically asking why a 24 isn't competitive?? I think that an 8 as average on the test is not competitive, but - like others have said - if you have a 12 BS and a 14 PS (for example), and 8 isn't going to kill you.

[eagle34]

If the 8VR is one of a few weaknesses on your app, it won't kill you at all. I had 8VR, 12BS, 11PS, S writing, got into a bunch of schools. So, it's not that big of a deal.

[chemolupusMD]

That freaking 8vrb came to bite me in the *****. It came up in my interview at UMDNJ on friday. They said it was a low score and if i was going to retake the test

[fuzzywuz]

Originally Posted by chemolupusMD

That freaking 8vrb came to bite me in the *****. It came up in my interview at UMDNJ on friday. They said it was a low score and if i was going to retake the test

How did you respond? I'm in the same position as you. And I don't plan on retaking it unless absolutely necessary....

[kweekes80]

I was always under the impression you need at least an 8 on verbal. My advisor told me anything less than 8 won't get you in for md schools.

so, i am guessing try to get at least 8 on every section, and get the highest total score you can.

[rocketbooster]

Originally Posted by kweekes80

I was always under the impression you need at least an 8 on verbal. My advisor told me anything less than 8 won't get you in for md schools.

so, i am guessing try to get at least 8 on every section, and get the highest total score you can.

what about for the sciences? I have a 10 on the verbal but freakin 8 and 9 on the physics and bio. I don't know...I feel like I know all the material but the test just owns me. for example, on my PS, there was barely any physics. the one physics passage was my ONE, weak topic (torque). I shouldn't have gotten lower than 10s! it's so frustrating.

is there no hope getting into an US MD school with a 27R?

[chemolupusMD]

Originally Posted by fuzzywuz

How did you respond? I'm in the same position as you. And I don't plan on retaking it unless absolutely necessary....

That if i would had taken the test at another time i would had retaken the test to get a higher score. I said that i felt that the retaking the test would slow down my application process, and that at this point i am satisfied up to a certain point. Hopefully is good enough answer for them

[littlealex]

8 was never competitive. If your sciences are strong, you'll get in with an 8, but competitive implies you'll have a good shot anywhere.

[niranjan162]

i was under the impression that the MCAT was curved so that a 25 is the average of the test.

if thats true wouldnt a 30 always be competitive even if people are getting smarter or wutever.

[fuzzywuz]

That's true.

But the fact is... there are more applicants than ever before. The capacity of med schools cannot keep up with this surge in applications. As a result, competition increases (more people fighting for one spot).

[cheasus]

A 30 becomes less competitive if there are more people taking the test but not more spots open for medical school... in other words, say that the number of applicants doubles... the number of 30s doubles... the number of schools wont so it makes you less and less competitive each year

[Emilysmile]

Hi,
To give you hope...I had a PS 12 BS 12 and VR 8. I have 4 interviews scheduled so far...
Good luck!

[kweekes80]

Originally Posted by fuzzywuz

That's true.

But the fact is... there are more applicants than ever before. The capacity of med schools cannot keep up with this surge in applications. As a result, competition increases (more people fighting for one spot).

not to get off the point, but what about all that about how the demand for doctors is increasing and schools are trying to increase their enrollment to meet those needs??
i could be wrong but this is the stuff i've been hearing

[kweekes80]

Originally Posted by Emilysmile

Hi,
To give you hope...I had a PS 12 BS 12 and VR 8. I have 4 interviews scheduled so far...
Good luck!

congrats on the interviews!! best of luck!

[linguini]

Originally Posted by kweekes80

not to get off the point, but what about all that about how the demand for doctors is increasing and schools are trying to increase their enrollment to meet those needs??
i could be wrong but this is the stuff i've been hearing

You're right about an increasinging need for doctor (especially in primary care) but I haven't heard anything about medical schools attempting to meet that need by increasing their enrollment, although perhaps they should. Pritzker is even downsizing their class...I think they are an exception though.

[kweekes80]

http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2007/070212.htm

here's where i saw it if you want to check it out

[linguini]

Originally Posted by kweekes80

http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2007/070212.htm

here's where i saw it if you want to check it out

Interesting article...but not necessarily morale-boosting. It appears that most schools plan to either keep their class size constant or increase it slightly (5-10 additional first years) by 2012. The enrollment increase of 17% is being heavily driven by the few outliers that plan on increasing their numbers significantly (i.e. "seven plan to increase enrollment by more than 50 students in the next five years, with two schools indicating plans for an enrollment increase of more than 100 first year students") And only 13 of the US medical schools have "definite" plans to increase enrollment, which isn't very encouraging news. I think that medical schools will ultimately increase enrollment but it depends heavily on factors other than the sheer need for more doctors. We (i.e. class of 2013) will not benefit directly from this planned increase.

[fuzzywuz]

Originally Posted by kweekes80

not to get off the point, but what about all that about how the demand for doctors is increasing and schools are trying to increase their enrollment to meet those needs??
i could be wrong but this is the stuff i've been hearing

Yeah I've read about that too. Their attempt to increase enrollment won't be immediate. First they need to have the resources in place to increase class size. It's not something they can do immediately. For the people applying this cycle, the effects of that proposal would be minimal...or negligible.

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Originally Posted by niranjan162

i was under the impression that the MCAT was curved so that a 25 is the average of the test.

if thats true wouldnt a 30 always be competitive even if people are getting smarter or wutever.

Not quite - average score is roughly 25, in 2007 roughly 65,000 tests were taken in competing for around 17,800 slots, If one scored in the 73rd percentile or so, they'd be among the top 17,800 MCAT takers, I'd see that as a minimum score to shoot for, this would be around a 28/29.

Lots of this will depend on how many people take the test - probably this won't vary too much and a balanced 30 will still be competitive in general, but in the past some years 50%+ of applicants have been accepted, other years as low as 37% or so were accepted. Presumably when 40% of applicants are accepted, MCATs for matriculants were on average higher than other years.

[tabrazinski]

Originally Posted by rocketbooster

what about for the sciences? I have a 10 on the verbal but freakin 8 and 9 on the physics and bio. I don't know...I feel like I know all the material but the test just owns me. for example, on my PS, there was barely any physics. the one physics passage was my ONE, weak topic (torque). I shouldn't have gotten lower than 10s! it's so frustrating.

is there no hope getting into an US MD school with a 27R?

with a 27R you probably are going to have a really tough time unless you have something else incredible that makes you stand out. with a 27 you should probably go the osteopathic route...

[tabrazinski]

Originally Posted by fuzzywuz

Yeah I've read about that too. Their attempt to increase enrollment won't be immediate. First they need to have the resources in place to increase class size. It's not something they can do immediately. For the people applying this cycle, the effects of that proposal would be minimal...or negligible.

i was told by a umass med dean that they're increasing their class size this coming year (and did last year as well). woot!

[tdittyx2x3]

It's not that there is "no hope" for a 27R to get into an MD school, because there are clearly other factors (essentially the rest of the application) and every year 27's matriculate. I try to keep in mind this commonly used logic: Consider a school with an average of a 30. For every 33, there must be a 27.

Granted, that 27 probably has a solid GPA and outstanding experiences, letters of rec, PS and secondary essays, interviewing skills, etc...

Are you that kind of 27? It's up to you. I am in a somewhat similar boat actually, but reversed. I have an above average MCAT and a low GPA (3.3 cum and 3.47 sci). Sometimes its scary to see that I fall in the bottom 10% of matriculants for GPA, but then I think to myself, "1 out 10 people at X school have my GPA. Based on the rest of my application, I could be that one out of 10."

That said, consider the DO option. At least look into it and do some research, find a DO, ask him about his/her education and practice, shadow, etc. If your end goal is the title "Doctor", and you don't think your 27 application will cut it for MD, then its a viable option.

[vtucci]

There is a difference between the average score for all test takers and the average for matriculating students at a US allopathic school.

Sorry but a 8VS is not very competitive. The score in verbal is the one that relates closest to future performance on USMLE (as opposed to PS and BS).

We have the misfortune of having these standardized tests dictating admission to medical school and later, specialty of medicine that one can practice. You just need to be committed to doing the best you can and striving to always improve if necessary.

Good luck all.