NIH Program

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Caraway

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Anyone here know anything about it? They seem very interesting, lots of research opportunities, good track for academic medicine career... plus they pay really well --

Does anyone know about the quality of their training? They also want me to do a 30 minute seminar :eek: :laugh: -- never done this before!! They're also prematch so I think you have a week to take their offer and withdraw from the match or decline...

Thanks everyone...

Members don't see this ad.
 
The NIH sounds like an amazing opportunity if you're looking to a career in academic medicine as a funded physician-scientist. If so, then the NIH sounds like the holy grail. I am only familiar with some of their fellowships, and I can tell you from experience that these opened doors for people.

If you are looking at academic medicine but you just want to sign out cases (no bench work, just glass), the NIH won't provide an appreciable advantage. It's a buyer's market in academic pathology across the country, so you could train at any reputable program and still get a job at a university/teaching hospital.

:) Get used to talking for 30 minutes. In residency I had to give departmental seminar, four 30 minute talks, resident didactic sessions, USCAP platforms, and seminar for my fellowship/job interview.... You'll be talking so much you might feel a little manic. My experience is probably not unique.

Forget about what the resident pay is, b/c that is not as important as the intangibles that this program could give you.
 
I heard a rumor that NIH residents are having a hard time finding a job. Is that true?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I heard a rumor that NIH residents are having a hard time finding a job. Is that true?

That may be true. Many jobs seek people with both AP and CP boards and the NIH is an AP only program. This can be a handicap in the job market.
 
the former head of cytology at the NIH for many years (one of the nation's best) is now doing a fellowship at albert einstein - montefiore. for what it's worth, she said AVOID AT ALL COSTS. she laughingly told me that people have to be forcibly coerced into going to talks, so i don't expect there to be much of an audience. that being said, i'm also interviewing and giving a seminar there. while i'm planning on going AP only/academic, i don't intend to go outside the match before i even find out about getting interviews at some top programs - i'm pretty much only going because it's on their dime and will be nice to have 'invited talk at NIH' on my resume. it's also nice to see what's out there.

sorry i can't provide more details - let me just say she could not have been more emphatically 'thumbs down'.
 
I would take the "avoid at all costs" with a grain of salt. Without knowing the person who said this or the circumstances under which they left it's tough to know what that thumbs down assessment really means.

Also, a great deal of what residency *is* has to do with the *network*. If your goal is to become the K08/R01 kind of person, there probably isn't a better place on the planet than the NIH. But, if you want to push glass you would probably be better off going elsewhere.

The best indicator of any program's worth is what happens to the residents when they leave. Ask about this.
 
I would take the "avoid at all costs" with a grain of salt. Without knowing the person who said this or the circumstances under which they left it's tough to know what that thumbs down assessment really means.

Also, a great deal of what residency *is* has to do with the *network*. If your goal is to become the K08/R01 kind of person, there probably isn't a better place on the planet than the NIH. But, if you want to push glass you would probably be better off going elsewhere.

The best indicator of any program's worth is what happens to the residents when they leave. Ask about this.

Good advice. I will ask when I interview where the residents have gone after graduation. The location, salary, loan repayment, and superb support for research are hard to turn down unless the training is really not adequate.
 
the former head of cytology at the NIH for many years (one of the nation's best) is now doing a fellowship at albert einstein - montefiore. for what it's worth, she said AVOID AT ALL COSTS. she laughingly told me that people have to be forcibly coerced into going to talks, so i don't expect there to be much of an audience. that being said, i'm also interviewing and giving a seminar there. while i'm planning on going AP only/academic, i don't intend to go outside the match before i even find out about getting interviews at some top programs - i'm pretty much only going because it's on their dime and will be nice to have 'invited talk at NIH' on my resume. it's also nice to see what's out there.

sorry i can't provide more details - let me just say she could not have been more emphatically 'thumbs down'.

To be fair...In most places trainees have to be coerced to go to talks especially when it is not directly related to what they are working on or if they dont understand the significance of the talk. because it takes away a chunk of time from whatever they are working on. That is why most grad school and post doc WIPS (work in progress seminars) have a sign in sheet. Nobody wants to go listen to others talk but they all want everybody to come their talk.

Also calling this a "invited talk at NIH" and putting it on your resume is a stretch. That would be like putting all your job search talks on your resume. Any decent academic can see through that.
 
Last edited:
good points all around. yes, my second-hand vague opinion should be taken with a grain (handful) of salt, which is also part of why i'm going - it's interesting to see how people's takes differ. if i like the program i will definitely touch base with the nay-sayer to hear more once i know specifics. it's just really tough to accept a position outside of the match when you haven't even interviewed at any other programs yet...i wonder how other people feel about that. on the plus side, i guess the people there were really excited about to the program and jumped at the offer.

anyone else hear anything else about the program?
 
I read with interest and dismay this forum and the "quotes" herein. Since a conversation I can barely remember is the source of a misunderstanding that has unfortunately been put in print and perpetuated on this website, I feel compelled to set the record straight. As a faculty member actively involved in resident and fellow education at NIH from 1992 – 2008, the program is well known to me.

The NIH has a 3 or 4 year AP program that is rich with research opportunities and AP exposure. The faculty is world class and dedicated to resident education. Academic opportunities abound. The residents are smart, motivated and incredibly congenial. The cases are complex and interesting and are worked up to promote both the understanding of disease processes and resident/fellow education. In addition, residents have the unique ability to take a considerable amount of elective time in outside institutions, thereby enhancing their specific or general interests in anatomic pathology or research. The opportunity to study outside the institution is also a chance to be involved first hand in the way pathology is practiced in more than one institution, which is an education in itself.

Residents from the Pathology program at NIH have always had their choice of some of the most competitive fellowships in the country: University of Pennsylvania (surg path), M.D. Anderson (Dermpath), Cleveland Clinic (Dermpath), just to name a few, in the last couple of years. On most occasions, the fellows from NIH fellowships (Cytopathology, Hematopathology) have their choice of not just one, but multiple job offers.

Of those that are invited for interviews at NIH, some applicants may give seminars. These seminars offer fledgling pathology applicants the ability to present their research to NIH scientists and represent incredible opportunities to make contacts, find potential research collaborations and foster professional friendships.

A career in pathology represents a lifetime of learning, and professional growth as this is a field of tremendous challenges, opportunities and medical advancement. It is hard to know as a medical student what you will want to do for the rest of your career. Your choice of residency program and the experiences you have over the next few years will have a tremendous influence on your professional path. You owe it to yourself to find the program that is the best personal fit for you. This is something that can be found only from first hand visits, and certainly not from website blogs.
 
Anyone here know anything about it? They seem very interesting, lots of research opportunities, good track for academic medicine career... plus they pay really well --

Does anyone know about the quality of their training? They also want me to do a 30 minute seminar :eek: :laugh: -- never done this before!! They're also prematch so I think you have a week to take their offer and withdraw from the match or decline...

Thanks everyone...

Im confused, they want a 30 min seminar talk as part of the interview? (or are you saying that is what they expect of residents??)

Thats a dealbreaker, Im sorry. If they are asking for that when no other program Ive ever heard of is then they can scrap it out for FMGs with the rest of scrub programs.


**edit: okay read this...
Of those that are invited for interviews at NIH, some applicants may give seminars
Then I would follow up, "some"? Wha?! LMAO, how do you decide who has to do this?(anyone with a PhD? MD-onlys get to skate?) Im sorry, this isnt auditioning for theatre nor are the "research opportunities" ANYWHERE worth more than the lint in my scrubs front pocket.
 
Last edited:
Im confused, they want a 30 min seminar talk as part of the interview? (or are you saying that is what they expect of residents??)

Thats a dealbreaker, Im sorry. If they are asking for that when no other program Ive ever heard of is then they can scrap it out for FMGs with the rest of scrub programs.


Wash U also asks some of its 'CP only' interviewees to present a seminar talk. I know someone who was asked to do it this year. Somebody also talked about that on a forum last year.

personally I dont think it is too bad. Presenting your work in front of an audience is a key skill for scientists. It is only natural that somebody might want to evaluate you based on that. A 30 min rehearsed talk about your 5 year research is a lot easier than being asked questions by an interviewer. Also, It might save you the trouble of repeating your research work to every interviewer.
 
I read with interest and dismay this forum and the “quotes” herein. Since a conversation I can barely remember is the source of a misunderstanding that has unfortunately been put in print and perpetuated on this website, I feel compelled to set the record straight. As a faculty member actively involved in resident and fellow education at NIH from 1992 – 2008, the program is well known to me.

The NIH has a 3 or 4 year AP program that is rich with research opportunities and AP exposure. The faculty is world class and dedicated to resident education. Academic opportunities abound. The residents are smart, motivated and incredibly congenial. The cases are complex and interesting and are worked up to promote both the understanding of disease processes and resident/fellow education. In addition, residents have the unique ability to take a considerable amount of elective time in outside institutions, thereby enhancing their specific or general interests in anatomic pathology or research. The opportunity to study outside the institution is also a chance to be involved first hand in the way pathology is practiced in more than one institution, which is an education in itself.

Residents from the Pathology program at NIH have always had their choice of some of the most competitive fellowships in the country: University of Pennsylvania (surg path), M.D. Anderson (Dermpath), Cleveland Clinic (Dermpath), just to name a few, in the last couple of years. On most occasions, the fellows from NIH fellowships (Cytopathology, Hematopathology) have their choice of not just one, but multiple job offers.

Of those that are invited for interviews at NIH, some applicants may give seminars. These seminars offer fledgling pathology applicants the ability to present their research to NIH scientists and represent incredible opportunities to make contacts, find potential research collaborations and foster professional friendships.

A career in pathology represents a lifetime of learning, and professional growth as this is a field of tremendous challenges, opportunities and medical advancement. It is hard to know as a medical student what you will want to do for the rest of your career. Your choice of residency program and the experiences you have over the next few years will have a tremendous influence on your professional path. You owe it to yourself to find the program that is the best personal fit for you. This is something that can be found only from first hand visits, and certainly not from website blogs.


very well said cellgirl. thanks for clarifying. I dont have an invite from NIH. but it applies to all other opinions about other programs and I agree totally with what you said in the last paragraph.
 
What's the latest on this? Any websites?
 
the best thing is you go and ask the resident there face to face. don't limite ur self to here. GL
 
Sorry to revive an old thread, but does anyone have any thoughts on how competitive one has to be in order to get in? Anyone have a friend of friend? :) The website says they only take 3 applicants per year, so I don't like those odds. On the other hand, I'm pretty gung-ho on the research end of things so I'm hoping that might account for something in program like this. If it matters, I like the geographical proximity to family in addition to the research-oriented aspects of the program.

-X
 
Last edited:
Having trained in this program, my experience as a resident would probably count as "first-hand". When I joined residency I did search on the internet for information regarding this program and found very little. It seemed like people either did not know much about the program or cared too little to post anything about it.

I think the experience at NIH is an unique one. It is unlike any other program in the country. Not being a regular hospital, one does not see much bread and butter pathology. But what it lacks in volume and monotony it makes up in the uniqueness of the cases you do see. You see tons of rarities, things you do not see much of elsewhere. Which to me are the things one needs to learn to recognize because honestly how many gall bladders does one need to look at before one recognizes chronic cholecystitis? In terms of getting to look at boring everyday pathology, the program has mandatory rotations (Surgical as well as Cytopath) in other DC area hospitals to expose the residents to regular bread and butter pathology. Most residents rotate through George Washington or Georgetown or Hopkins or NNMC (which is right across the street and quite convenient). Being a cancer institute most of what one will encounter on a daily basis are tumors. But you also see a fair amount of "normal" because of the surveillance protocols that the patients are on. Volume-wise there isn't that much, but there is usually a single resident on each service every month. Which means when you are on Surg-path service you get every single case and you gross everyday and you preview everyday and you sign-out everyday. Which gets busy but it gives you the chance to see all the cases for that month. And when you add that up it compares quite well with any of the other outside programs where one is on a 3 or 4-man cycle during Surg-path.

The attendings are some of the best in their field and there is ample scope for research projects. The program has shifted focus in the last few years from a more research driven emphasis to a more clinical one. Research projects are encouraged but not emphasized. The biggest strength of the program is the amount of elective time given to pursue either research or clinical rotations. Which means the resident can choose to tailor his/ her residency in a direction he/ she was interested in. We have had residents spending all their elective time working on a research project and we've had residents spending elective time doing sub-speciality rotations in a field that fascinated them and in programs where they were planning on applying for fellowship subsequently.

Most residents go on to do fellowships of their choice in really good programs. The program offers a hematopathology and a cytopathology fellowship. Historically one of three residents will stay on an additional year to do research which is also an option the program offers. The research opportunities are fantastic and you have the scope to work with the really big names in any field and get publications that are high impact and ground breaking. The NIH name goes a long way and although a lot of people are not aware of the residency program, it carries a lot of clout during interviews.

The downside is there is no CP, so you'd have to know that you want to do AP only if you were to apply. And for most people that is not an issue at all. The program also does not go through the Match. Which again was never an issue for me since I'd rather have the guarantee of a position in a really good program than go through the nightmare of the Match.

The other great thing is the pay is really good, which is much much higher than any other residency program. NIH has a great loan repayment program which can come in real handy. And one gets to live in the DC area which is kinda cool.

Yup the 3 residents a year makes it competitive but it is totally worth it.
 
the former head of cytology at the NIH for many years (one of the nation's best) is now doing a fellowship at albert einstein - montefiore. for what it's worth, she said AVOID AT ALL COSTS. she laughingly told me that people have to be forcibly coerced into going to talks, so i don't expect there to be much of an audience. that being said, i'm also interviewing and giving a seminar there. while i'm planning on going AP only/academic, i don't intend to go outside the match before i even find out about getting interviews at some top programs - i'm pretty much only going because it's on their dime and will be nice to have 'invited talk at NIH' on my resume. it's also nice to see what's out there.

sorry i can't provide more details - let me just say she could not have been more emphatically 'thumbs down'.


I read with interest and dismay this forum and the “quotes” herein. Since a conversation I can barely remember is the source of a misunderstanding that has unfortunately been put in print and perpetuated on this website, I feel compelled to set the record straight. As a faculty member actively involved in resident and fellow education at NIH from 1992 – 2008, the program is well known to me...


The above quotes illustrate an example of anonymous website posting FAIL.


Whoever "flybutter" is in real life is basically completely hosed now as far as the NIH goes and as far as anywhere else that cellgirl (who is apparently a well respected faculty member) knows anyone.

Cellgirl has now had a conversation outed on the internet saying that she bashed the NIH which cannot be good for future networking purposes.

Everyone loses.
 
Top