The MS Advantage-Pre Dent Ed of 1st Yr Enrollees 07-08

doc toothache · Feb 11, 2009

Applying without a degree.

A number of posts have questioned the advisability of applying to DS after only completing the pre requisites and without a degree in hand. A comparison of the 07 and 08 enrollees does not show a significant change in the rate of admission. While it is possible to gain acceptance without a degree/4 yrs of college, the numbers are relatively small.

The Master's Advantage.

There is a roughly 50% increase in the number of enrollees with an MS degree. This should be good news for those who wondered whether the additional degree was worth the effort.

Code:

	2007	2008	2007	2008	2007	2008
	T Enr	T Enr	2 Yrs	2 Yrs	3 Yrs	3 Yrs
Alaba	60	58	0	0	0	0
AZ	60	67	0	0	1	1
MidW		111		0		0
Loma	95	100	0	0	0	0
UCLA	88	88	0	0	0	0
UCSF	85	86	0		0	
UOP	141	141	0	2	4	2
USC	144	144	0	0	0	0
Colo	50	51	0	0	0	0
Conn	39	43	0	0	0	0
Howard	82	72	0	0	0	2
NOVA	93	96	0	0	0	0
Florida	83	83	0	0	0	0
Geo	63	66	0	0	0	0
S. Illi	50	50	0	0	0	0
Illi	68	66	0	0	0	0
Ind	101	100	0		0	1
Iowa	80	80	0	0	0	0
Kent	56	56	0	0	0	0
Louisv	84	85	0	0	0	0
Louisi	60	60	0	0	0	0
Maryl	130	130	0	0	0	0
Boston	115	115	0	0	0	0
Harv	35	35	0	0	0	0
Tufts	166	171	0	0	0	0
Mercy	78	87	0	0	4	4
Mich	105	105	0	0	1	0
Minn	96	97	0	0	0	5
Miss	35	37	0	0	0	0
Mis KC	104	102	0	0	0	0
Creigh	85	85	0	0	2	2
Neb	45	36	0	0	0	0
Nev	78	82	0	0	0	0
UMDNJ	87	86	0	0	0	0
Colum	77	72	0	0	0	0
NY	228	236	0	0	2	3
SUNY SB	39	39	0	0	0	0
SUNY B	88	83	0	0	2	
N Carol	76	80	0	0	0	0
Case	85	62	3	0	2	4
Ohio	103	101	0	0	0	0
Okla	58	58	0	0	0	0
Oregon	75	75	0	0	0	0
Penn	125	125	0	0	0	4
Pitt	115	115	0	0	1	4
Temple	78	80	0	0	0	0
PR	42	39	0	0	0	0
S Carol	56	56	0	0	0	0
Meh	51	51	0	0	3	1
Tenn	80	80	0	0	0	0
Baylor	95	100	0	0	3	2
UT Hou	84	84	0	0	0	3
UT-SA	94	98	0	0	16	0
Virg	90	100	0	0	0	0
Wash	55	63	0	0	0	0
W Va	51	50	0	0	0	0
Marq	80	80	0	0	0	9
						
Total	4666	4798	3	2	41	27
%			0.06	0.04	0.88	0.56

	2007	2008	2007	2008
	4 Yrs	4 Yrs	Bacc	Bacc
Alaba	0	0	56	52
AZ	4	4	54	49
MidW		0		111
Loma	1	1	92	98
UCLA	0	0	83	85
UCSF	0	2	79	86
UOP	7	1	130	134
USC	0	0	144	144
Colo	3	1	45	52
Conn	0	0	36	38
Howard	0	0	82	78
NOVA	1	1	87	85
Florida	1	2	76	70
Geo	0	0	61	61
S. Illi	6	7	40	43
Illi	0	0	60	61
Ind	3	7	85	93
Iowa	19	2	59	76
Kent	0	2	53	52
Louisv	6	2	68	81
Louisi	2	3	58	57
Maryl	0	3	118	117
Boston	2	1	100	94
Harv	0	0	35	35
Tufts	0	0	163	164
Mercy	2	2	67	84
Mich	3	0	99	99
Minn	2	0	94	92
Miss	2	1	33	36
Mis KC	16	4	92	90
Creigh	7	2	76	78
Neb	7	6	36	36
Nev	9	4	68	73
UMDNJ	0	0	83	84
Colum	0	2	74	77
NY	10	4	210	210
SUNY SB	0	0	36	37
SUNY B	1	5	86	78
N Carol	2	2	79	79
Case	11	3	66	58
Ohio	6	6	94	90
Okla	13	16	42	40
Oregon	0	0	75	75
Penn	0	0	105	104
Pitt	0	4	73	72
Temple	2	1	116	113
PR	6	4	36	34
S Carol	0	0	51	55
Meh	0	0	48	47
Tenn	0	0	77	77
Baylor	2	1	85	89
UT Hou	7	0	69	77
UT-SA	0	27	74	70
Virg	4	2	82	96
Wash	2	2	53	53
W Va	8	12	43	38
Marq	2	0	62	71

Total	179	149	4248	4428
%	3.84	3.11	91.04	92.29

	2007	2008	2007	2008
	M	M	Ph.D.	Ph.D.
Alaba	3	4	1	2
AZ	1	1	0	0
MidW		0		0
Loma	2	2	0	0
UCLA	4	2	1	1
UCSF	5	3	1	0
UOP	0	2	0	0
USC	10	10	0	0
Colo	2	4	0	0
Conn	1	9	2	1
Howard	2	20	1	1
NOVA	15	5	0	0
Florida	5	1	2	2
Geo	1	0	0	0
S. Illi	4	0	0	0
Illi	7	19	1	
Ind	9	19	2	0
Iowa	1	1	1	1
Kent	2	3	1	0
Louisv	9	2	0	0
Louisi	0	10	0	1
Maryl	11	20	1	0
Boston	13	20	0	0
Harv	0	7	0	0
Tufts	3	7	0	0
Mercy	5	8	0	0
Mich	1	4	1	1
Minn	1	4	0	1
Miss	2	1	0	0
Mis KC	2	1	0	1
Creigh	0	2	2	1
Neb	2	4	0	0
Nev	0	5	1	1
UMDNJ	4	0	0	0
Colum	4	24	0	0
NY	8	2	0	2
SUNY SB	3	6	0	0
SUNY B	3	2	0	0
N Carol	2	5	0	0
Case	3	5	0	0
Ohio	3	5	0	0
Okla	1	1	0	1
Oregon	2	1	1	1
Penn	6	7	0	0
Pitt	5	11	1	1
Temple	6	11	1	0
PR	1	1	0	0
S Carol	3	3	1	0
Meh	6	3	1	0
Tenn	3	5	3	0
Baylor	3	5	1	3
UT Hou	6	4	2	0
UT-SA	3	6	0	0
Virg	3	2	1	1
Wash	2	2	0	0
W Va	4	0	0	0
Marq	0	0	0	0

Total	207	311	30	23
%	4.44	6.48	0.64	0.48

socloseithurts · Feb 11, 2009

let's say i don't get in anywhere this cycle (which is unfortunately the case) and i do a masters next year and reapply. i'll still be the same applicant when they review my file, right? none of my stats will change b/c i won't get my grades until after Dec. 1st. Do the schools just assume that everyone's GPA will increase and let them in provided that they complete their masters? Or do they wait till after Dec 1st? Also, are they impressed if you do a masters instead of sitting around and moping?

GoBlueJays · Feb 11, 2009

socloseithurts said:
i do a masters next year and reapply. i'll still be the same applicant when they review my file, right? none of my stats will change b/c i won't get my grades until after Dec. 1st.

I think I understand, if you mean next cycle, not next year.. After the admissions committees wiped their booty(s) with my second application I decided to pursue an MS. I did NOT apply in that immediate May. I completed 2 semesters (fall and spring) of MS work prior to applying again.

So, I guess my recommendation is if you do not get in this cycle; you apply in May of 2010, after completing some course work.

Regards,
GoBlueJays

dr bojangles · Feb 11, 2009

ditto to what bluejays said (perhaps see you in august at nova, blue)

appleonius · Feb 12, 2009

def shows that it's getting more competitive...not that everyone doesn't know already.

socloseithurts · Feb 12, 2009

ok, so would it look stupid to reapply next cycle (before finishing a masters) and then again after finishing the masters (assuming I wont get in). Or should I just wait until I finish my masters and then apply?

GoBlueJays · Feb 12, 2009

socloseithurts said:
ok, so would it look stupid to reapply next cycle (before finishing a masters) and then again after finishing the masters (assuming I wont get in). Or should I just wait until I finish my masters and then apply?

I assume you are not currently enrolled in a masters program. If that is the case, applying next cycle (which begins this coming May/June) would not make a great deal of sense. Your application will look the same as it does today (at least from the GPA standpoint).

You do not have to be DONE with your masters to apply but you should at least start it.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
GoBlueJays

socloseithurts · Feb 12, 2009

GoBlueJays said:
I assume you are not currently enrolled in a masters program. If that is the case, applying next cycle (which begins this coming May/June) would not make a great deal of sense. Your application will look the same as it does today (at least from the GPA standpoint).

You do not have to be DONE with your masters to apply but you should at least start it.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
GoBlueJays

i guess it helps. im just hoping that ill get some interview invites and then after i do an academic update, they'll let me in. i don't know what else my options are

JayPoint5 · Feb 13, 2009

GoBlueJays said:
I think I understand, if you mean next cycle, not next year.. After the admissions committees wiped their booty(s) with my second application I decided to pursue an MS. I did NOT apply in that immediate May. I completed 2 semesters (fall and spring) of MS work prior to applying again.

So, I guess my recommendation is if you do not get in this cycle; you apply in May of 2010, after completing some course work.

Regards,
GoBlueJays

That's what I'm planning to do if I don't get in this time and apply in May 2010. Good to know the Master's will actually help me.

Emmie · May 10, 2009

Dr. T, how did you get that --> "50%" number?

Does anyone know whether you have your master prior to your applications make a huge difference? I assume a portion of those 311 people are granted acceptance prior to their completion of their MS degree right?

doc toothache · May 11, 2009

Emmie said:
Dr. T, how did you get that --> "50%" number?

Does anyone know whether you have your master prior to your applications make a huge difference? I assume a portion of those 311 people are granted acceptance prior to their completion of their MS degree right?

Compared to the figures for 2007. (2008 ADEA Guide to DS)
It can certainly make a difference. The applications are judged based on stats on hand.

Emmie · May 12, 2009

doc toothache said:
Compared to the figures for 2007. (2008 ADEA Guide to DS)
It can certainly make a difference. The applications are judged based on stats on hand.

Would you say for those who have their M.S. before applying have a lot better chance than 50%? Or the chance is just slightly increased?

doc toothache · May 12, 2009

Emmie said:
Would you say for those who have their M.S. before applying have a lot better chance than 50%? Or the chance is just slightly increased?

Would you settle for 49.999%? If you want exact odds you may have ask a bookie. An applicant with an advanced degree does show that he/she can handle graduate level courses. Keep in mind that we may have at least two categories of applicants with M.S. degrees. One would be those who obtained an MS and then decided to apply to ds and the other would be made of those who were unsuccessful and then tried to improve their competitiveness by getting the degree.

Danny289 · May 16, 2009

doc toothache said:
Would you settle for 49.999%? If you want exact odds you may have ask a bookie. An applicant with an advanced degree does show that he/she can handle graduate level courses. Keep in mind that we may have at least two categories of applicants with M.S. degrees. One would be those who obtained an MS and then decided to apply to ds and the other would be made of those who were unsuccessful and then tried to improve their competitiveness by getting the degree.

a friend of mine that already has MS was told in his interview, first two years in DS is more like undrgraduate style, for this reason they( that certain school) prefer to see performing well in upper level courses in undergradute program.

LNinlove · May 16, 2009

Hey Doc, any info on the number of students applying with an MS vs acceptance with an MS? I looked in the 2008 Guide and couldn't find this particular stat...if anyone knows...it would be you!

kingcon9 · May 16, 2009

Danny289 said:
a friend of mine that already has MS was told in his interview, first two years in DS is more like undrgraduate style, for this reason they( that certain school) prefer to see performing well in upper level courses in undergradute program.

just for my edification, what school did your friend interview at? I'm finishing my Masters, and it could possibly a school I am applying to

Danny289 · May 16, 2009

kingcon9 said:
just for my edification, what school did your friend interview at? I'm finishing my Masters, and it could possibly a school I am applying to

one of Texas schools. if you are not Texas resident don't worry about that. GL

LNinlove · May 21, 2009

bump-asaurus rex...

Doc I need your statistical knowledge!!

doc toothache · May 21, 2009

LNinlove said:
bump-asaurus rex...

Doc I need your statistical knowledge!!

The figures you are looking for are not available to us mortals. In any case, it is unlikely that the applicants/enrollees ratio will be high.

bennijai · May 22, 2009

does this include MA degrees or just MS? I am curious how a MA degree compares.

doc toothache · May 22, 2009

bennijai said:
does this include MA degrees or just MS? I am curious how a MA degree compares.

ADEA does not make a distinction between the two. It is simply listed as Mast. A change was made in the title to avoid confusion.

bennijai · May 23, 2009

thank u for the response doc. =)

LNinlove · May 23, 2009

grrrr I think they should disclose everything...it would take some more work on their part, but it would aid the applicants and allow them to make a more informed decision!

XZeRO · Jan 23, 2010

doc toothache said:
Keep in mind that we may have at least two categories of applicants with M.S. degrees. One would be those who obtained an MS and then decided to apply to ds and the other would be made of those who were unsuccessful and then tried to improve their competitiveness by getting the degree.

would they be considered differently by the admissions committee?

Montserrat · Jan 23, 2010

Danny289 said:
a friend of mine that already has MS was told in his interview, first two years in DS is more like undrgraduate style, for this reason they( that certain school) prefer to see performing well in upper level courses in undergradute program.

There are a number of Masters programs out there that students enroll it to take Dental and Medical school coursework. Granted, earning a high mark in these programs is easier said than done. If anything, I'd say these programs are by and far the best indicators if one is looking to bolster an application. Taking dinky graduate courses out there probably wouldn't be as beneficial for an overall application.

DrDDSman · Mar 17, 2010

Columbia had 24 enrollees with MS degrees in 2008? That seems like a lot, given the class size.

doc toothache · Mar 17, 2010

DrDDSman said:
Columbia had 24 enrollees with MS degrees in 2008? That seems like a lot, given the class size.

Entries are not necessarily accurate. ADEA shows the # with MS for Columbia as 24 while in the section on the school itself there is no such claim.

DATlongshui · Apr 7, 2010

Hi Doc Toothache,

Any comments about with Ph.D degree in biology prior to applying? Will that be over-killing? Thanks.

doc toothache · Apr 7, 2010

DATlongshui said:
Hi Doc Toothache, Any comments about with Ph.D degree in biology prior to applying? Will that be over-killing? Thanks.

Hard to call it overkill if you cannot get acceptance without it.

KittySquared · Aug 3, 2011

Need to bump this thread. Great read for those considering/doing a masters (such as myself).

Dgeorg6 · Nov 10, 2011

Am I reading that chart correctly when it says that only 3% of people accepted into ALL dental schools ONLY had a 4 year degree and 90%+ had masters or post-bacc?

doc toothache · Nov 11, 2011

Dgeorg6 said:
Am I reading that chart correctly when it says that only 3% of people accepted into ALL dental schools ONLY had a 4 year degree and 90%+ had masters or post-bacc?

Nowhere is there mention of a post bac and yes you appear to have misread the info.

KittySquared · Mar 25, 2012

Gonna bump this epic thread again, for those who are losing hope.

Accent · Mar 26, 2012

I was looking into a MA program, it has all the upper level science classes, but it's a 1-year non-thesis program. The MS program is a 2-year thesis program. Does it matter if it's MS or MA?

arvininfinity · Mar 29, 2012

KittySquared said:
Gonna bump this epic thread again, for those who are losing hope.

So thats still true?
then wondered if there is a list of degrees that people do? I guess there is no advantage over doing some particular degree but would be good to see what successful pepole done in the past

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