Is it worth it??

TawMus said:

I have just gotten accepted to a school that has a very high tuition. After calculating how much it would cost me to pay for tuition, books, living expenses, etc. I have come to realize that I will be close to half a million in debt not including interest.

Because of this, I recently started to entertain the idea of joining the military to pay for my education. I plan on doing the minimum time and getting the hell out (unless I come to realize that I like military medicine), and I am not thinking about doing primary care.

So here's my questions, is the minimum time I have to pay back to the military worth the obvious pros of being a part of the military??? I have been hearing a lot of bad things about general surgeons, anesthegiologists, and etc. experiences in the military.

Please discuss, I would really like to hear from those of you who have been or are currently doing your payback time.

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This has been discussed ad nauseum on a regular basis here. Without a doubt the single most stupid reason to shackle yourself to a dying organization would be for $$$$ which in the end you will end out loosing. Not only will you loose money, but the potential to do the residency of your choice, the level of training that you get, the level of acuity needed to maintain your skills, and who you work with.

Based on your question, if you do this for money you will end up miserable, bitter, and less well off than you could be as a civilian physician.

Galo said:

This has been discussed ad nauseum on a regular basis here. Without a doubt the single most stupid reason to shackle yourself to a dying organization would be for $$$$ which in the end you will end out loosing. Not only will you loose money, but the potential to do the residency of your choice, the level of training that you get, the level of acuity needed to maintain your skills, and who you work with.

Based on your question, if you do this for money you will end up miserable, bitter, and less well off than you could be as a civilian physician.

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and potentially dead....

Don't take the scholarship. Not only would the situation make you miserable, but you would probably add to the misery of your peers who joined for the job itself and not for the money.

...but if you do anyway, go air force and not army

TawMus said:

I have just gotten accepted to a school that has a very high tuition. After calculating how much it would cost me to pay for tuition, books, living expenses, etc. I have come to realize that I will be close to half a million in debt not including interest.

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Out of curiosity, how are you budgeting? $125K is a way high figure for tuition/living expenses at even the most expensive osteopathic school out there.

TawMus said:

I have just gotten accepted to a school that has a very high tuition. After calculating how much it would cost me to pay for tuition, books, living expenses, etc. I have come to realize that I will be close to half a million in debt not including interest.

Because of this, I recently started to entertain the idea of joining the military to pay for my education. I plan on doing the minimum time and getting the hell out (unless I come to realize that I like military medicine), and I am not thinking about doing primary care.

So here's my questions, is the minimum time I have to pay back to the military worth the obvious pros of being a part of the military??? I have been hearing a lot of bad things about general surgeons, anesthegiologists, and etc. experiences in the military.

Please discuss, I would really like to hear from those of you who have been or are currently doing your payback time.

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Welcome to the milmed forum! god the stench of anti-recruiting stinks here. I'll say that there are positive things going on in medicine. it's not 'dying' institution that you're 'shackled' to, some tend to be dramatic here. people do have positive accounts of it, unfortunately this forum is dominated by the nae-sayers, but what can you do.

im doing hpsp next fall. BUT, i shall join the ranks of the anti-recruiters here and encourage you NOT to join, b/c your premise is wrong. You're already negative about it, essentially claimining that you're doing it for the money and that you'd GTFO out first opportunity. clearly you're not interested in milmed, so don't do it.

also agree w/ notdeadyet in that your calculation seems to be off. Would also like to know how you came up w/ a debt of half a million? i dont see that possible even for the most expensive schools, unless you're trying to keep up w/ a mortgage or have dependents.

notdeadyet said:

Out of curiosity, how are you budgeting? $125K is a way high figure for tuition/living expenses at even the most expensive osteopathic school out there.

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You living in the '90s, man? GWU is like $60/year tuition alone.

dwb8p said:

You living in the '90s, man? GWU is like $60/year tuition alone.

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And one needs 65,000 dollars a year for living expenses? Still seems a bit excessive of an estimate to me. (even in DC)

dwb8p said:

You living in the '90s, man? GWU is like $60/year tuition alone.

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How many years are you planning on attending med school? It's $240K for four years. Where's the other quarter million come from. Most schools max out your living expenses at no more than $20k/year on top of tuition.

notdeadyet said:

How many years are you planning on attending med school? It's $240K for four years. Where's the other quarter million come from. Most schools max out your living expenses at no more than $20k/year on top of tuition.

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i suppose if you're gonna take out 60K for tuition + 60K for living expenses (if you have a mortgage, a spouse who doesn't work, a child) = ~$125K. So 4 x 125 = 500K. i can see that now. that's a crazy price tag. hell in that case it may even be worth doing hpsp for the money, esp if you're going into PC

Go to a cheap school. If you can get $30K or less of tuition and live on $20K/year you're only looking at $200K. Any specialty outside of primary care can pay that off in less time than you can pay off the military, without the baggage.

I once ran the numbers and found I came out $180K behind going the military route. I need to add $26K to that to make up for the fact that I won't get/take the ISP this year. This was due to going to a cheap school, graduating at a time of low interest rates, and entering a non-primary care specialty.

Nevertheless, I would gladly have come out $180K behind to avoid the hassles I've had to deal with in military medicine. Even now, I'd pay $100K cash to get out of my last year of commitment.

The experience isn't all bad, but you definitely won't enjoy it if the main reason you're considering it is financial.

crazybrancato said:

i suppose if you're gonna take out 60K for tuition + 60K for living expenses (if you have a mortgage, a spouse who doesn't work, a child) = ~$125K.

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No. There's not a med school in the country that will give you $60K for living expenses, even if you're raising a family of 12. The ceiling maxes out very low.

Trying to pull in $60K in loans as a college student is just a bad idea. You need to either save money ahead of time and put off college a few years or trim your expenses. Incidentally, I have friends living off the $20K we're allocated at our school. The wife had to work part time and the whole family had to make sacrifices, but it's doable. Expecting to maintain the style of living you had before med school while in med school is not realistic. If you're family is not supportive of the idea, you should probably think long and hard about the plan.

crazybrancato said:

Welcome to the milmed forum! god the stench of anti-recruiting stinks here. I'll say that there are positive things going on in medicine. it's not 'dying' institution that you're 'shackled' to, some tend to be dramatic here. people do have positive accounts of it, unfortunately this forum is dominated by the nae-sayers, but what can you do.

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well, milmed certainly isn't thriving. and if we're not shackled to it, what are we? we're certainly not allowed to leave, and certainly not in control of what happens to it. sounds pretty shackled to me.

as to the OP-- don't do it for the money, period. it's not worth it. talk to multiple people, but also remember that people who haven't been through it yet or seen what it's like as an attending or deployed may not have the experience to really comment on it. i think that's about as PC as i can put it.

besides-- after you take out loans and get the training you want, if you still have the burning desire to join (even for $$$) the military will still be waiting.

--your friendly neighborhood sick call in iraq seeing caveman

besides-- after you take out loans and get the training you want, if you still have the burning desire to join (even for $$$) the military will still be waiting.

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I disagree on this one point. The most the military is currently willing to pay you in post-med school loan repayment is less than half of what I'll get via an HPSP scholarship and woudn't even cover my debt from tuition, let alone living expenses. I'm not saying money is a great stand alone reason to join, but if you want to join and you go to an uber-expensive private/out-of state public school chances are HPSP is the only viable way for you to serve other than practicing civilian med until you've paid down most of your debts.

Homunculus said:

as to the OP-- don't do it for the money, period. it's not worth it. talk to multiple people, but also remember that people who haven't been through it yet or seen what it's like as an attending or deployed may not have the experience to really comment on it. i think that's about as PC as i can put it.

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ditto!!!

Please, please notice that the people telling you frantically "no, no, don't do it!" are usually residents and attendings who are actually there, or recently escaped.

Generally, the people who are "full steam ahead, my life is going to rock!" tend to have no prior military experience and are either pre-HPSP, in med school part of HPSP, or interns.

Did you see the post "I'd pay 100k to get out a year early" above? Yeah, that will be you in 5 years if you put your pen to that contract. Don't do it.

Habeed said:

Please, please notice that the people telling you frantically "no, no, don't do it!" are usually residents and attendings who are actually there, or recently escaped.

Generally, the people who are "full steam ahead, my life is going to rock!" tend to have no prior military experience and are either pre-HPSP, in med school part of HPSP, or interns.

Did you see the post "I'd pay 100k to get out a year early" above? Yeah, that will be you in 5 years if you put your pen to that contract. Don't do it.

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Good point...there is definitely a difference in perception of the military for the medical student vs residents and attendings. The reason is you begin to see your options limited and your dream duty station vanish. Just follow my posts over the years and you will see a dramatic change in my opinion.

TawMus said:

I have just gotten accepted to a school that has a very high tuition. After calculating how much it would cost me to pay for tuition, books, living expenses, etc. I have come to realize that I will be close to half a million in debt not including interest.

Because of this, I recently started to entertain the idea of joining the military to pay for my education. I plan on doing the minimum time and getting the hell out (unless I come to realize that I like military medicine), and I am not thinking about doing primary care.

So here's my questions, is the minimum time I have to pay back to the military worth the obvious pros of being a part of the military??? I have been hearing a lot of bad things about general surgeons, anesthegiologists, and etc. experiences in the military.

Please discuss, I would really like to hear from those of you who have been or are currently doing your payback time.

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Welcome to the forum. As someone who was in your shoes not long ago, trust me when I say that you don't know what you don't know, and I'm not meaning to talk down to you. But until you've had the experience of working your butt off through med school and getting the scores that can get you the residency of your choice in the civilian world, followed by being told that you and the rest of your graduating military class have to forego residency and do a GMO tour because the AF personnel dept didn't realize that EVERYONE was leaving the AF ASAP (wonder why), followed by being stationed in a remote location two hours' drive from the nearest large city...well, you wish you'd taken the loans.

Go to med school, get trained, find the residency you want, then look into the FAP program if you're still thinking about the military. They pay off your loans and you practice in the specialty you want and have a lot more leverage. Good luck.

TawMus said:

What I'm trying to figure out is if being wh0red around by the military for 4 years is worth not having to worry about money thru school. From what I've been reading, AF seems like a lost cause. So would you guys recommend Army or Navy if I decide to bite the bullet??

Thanks!

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It seems to me that the general consensus is that if you view it as "being wh0red around by the military for 4 years" then you won't think it is worth it. If you have a more positive outlook (because of experience with the military) then it could be worth it.

Of course it very much depends on you so you can only get so much from a forum like this. (so the question you might want to be asking is "what are the negatives and positives" rather than "is it worth it" since the first is more subjective and will allow you to get an answer to the second)

Anyway, good luck in your decision.

crazybrancato said:

im doing hpsp next fall.

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I'll be the first to admit that I had no idea what I was getting into when I joined HPSP. Four years later and I want nothing more than to get out. I think your enthusiasm will fade as time goes on and (1) you don't get the residency of your choice---if you get to go to residency at all, (2) make less money than originally promised, (3) have military admin headaches as well as medical paper work headaches, and (4) have no input as to where you'll practice medicine and how you'll practice it.

TawMus said:

What I'm trying to figure out is if being wh0red around by the military for 4 years is worth not having to worry about money thru school...

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Nice quote There are good things about it but you are definitely the military's callgirl. When they need you for a deployment they will dial you right up regardless of what you are doing and not think twice about it.

TawMus said:

Lots of good posts guys, I really appreciate it. I may have exagerated a lil bit on the tuition costs. When I talked to some of the students at the school, there were ppl that were taking about 80k-90k out per year for tuition + books + living costs. So when I said close to half a million was really about 320k-360k not including interest. But that is still alot of money.

There are someone of you out there that think its BS that I'm joining only for financial reasons but I think you have the wrong idea of me. After doing some research, I have come to realize that military medicine is not going to provide me with the opportunities I am looking for. If milmed was better, I would definitely consider doing more than the minimum time.

But as the situation stands, if I do decide to do milmed, it will be only so that I wont be in so much debt when I start my career(one less thing to worry about).

What I'm trying to figure out is if being wh0red around by the military for 4 years is worth not having to worry about money thru school. From what I've been reading, AF seems like a lost cause. So would you guys recommend Army or Navy if I decide to bite the bullet??

Thanks!

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Welcome TawMus.

I am currenty staff army physician. DO NOT be lured by the short term money. I am primary care and after looking at all the pay back time and what I could make on the outside, I still come out on the losing end at the end of the day. The matter is only much worse if you are going to be a specialist or a surgical specialty.

It is not only deployments you have to be concerned about either. Pysicians are not in charge of milmed, period. You will likely not have much say in what equipment you use, how the hospital is run, etc. You wil have nurses that "out-rank" you trying to tell you how you will be practicing medicine

The only reason to join milmed is a deep comitment to helping the soldiers, airmen and sailors as well as their families. If you are doing something other than primary care then go civilian, pay back your loans and then decide if you want to do the milmed route for a while. Remeber, you will be promisd the moon until you sign your name on that contract. Once you do that, you are the military's whipping boy for the duration and all the promises will disappear before the ink on the contract dries.

Good luck in your career, what ever you decide!

TawMus said:

What I'm trying to figure out is if being wh0red around by the military for 4 years is worth not having to worry about money thru school. From what I've been reading, AF seems like a lost cause. So would you guys recommend Army or Navy if I decide to bite the bullet?

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Keep in mind that depending on the cost of living in the area around your medical school, you still may need to take out loans. The stipend I got throughout school didn't even cover rent (I went to school in south florida). So I got loans, just not nearly as bad as everyone else.

And why is the AF a lost cause? Despite having monetary and time debt and a general lack of freedom, I'm actually enjoying myself quite a bit in the AF.

TawMus said:

Lots of good posts guys, I really appreciate it. I may have exagerated a lil bit on the tuition costs. When I talked to some of the students at the school, there were ppl that were taking about 80k-90k out per year for tuition + books + living costs. So when I said close to half a million was really about 320k-360k not including interest. But that is still alot of money.

There are someone of you out there that think its BS that I'm joining only for financial reasons but I think you have the wrong idea of me. After doing some research, I have come to realize that military medicine is not going to provide me with the opportunities I am looking for. If milmed was better, I would definitely consider doing more than the minimum time.

But as the situation stands, if I do decide to do milmed, it will be only so that I wont be in so much debt when I start my career(one less thing to worry about).

What I'm trying to figure out is if being wh0red around by the military for 4 years is worth not having to worry about money thru school. From what I've been reading, AF seems like a lost cause. So would you guys recommend Army or Navy if I decide to bite the bullet??

Thanks!

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11 short years ago, I was feeling very similar to what you feel. I had this vague desire to do my part and serve in the military, having been accepted to a very expensive medical school, what better way than to let Uncle Sugar pick up the Tab.


When I started school, $250,000 in loan repayment over the life of my loans, was an incredibly outrageous amount as far as I knew. After all, I grew up Poor by the US standard.

I signed the contract, raised my right hand, and started school.
Life was great.

Then a one year defferment for internship ONLY and right to a GMO tour ( you can read about in other threads) with a malignant and dangerous command.
2 more years of GMO because there was no way in @#$% I was going to stay in, and here I sit with another year in residency.

11 years ago $250,000 seemed like an insurmountable number. Today, I wouldn't even consider a post residency job that payed less than that in a year. (unless it was part time)

The loans I could have payed back, the four years of GMO I will never get back. Last time I calculated at my specialties average salary, I will have lost almost $750,000 by starting private practice 4 years behind my peers.

Yes being debt free is nice, but my decision was very short sighted, and thats what the .mil counts on.

Good luck whatever you decide, but if your going to do it just for the money, do yourself and your possible shipmates a favor, and DON"T

i want out(of IRR)

TawMus said:

I have just gotten accepted to a school that has a very high tuition. After calculating how much it would cost me to pay for tuition, books, living expenses, etc. I have come to realize that I will be close to half a million in debt not including interest.

Because of this, I recently started to entertain the idea of joining the military to pay for my education. I plan on doing the minimum time and getting the hell out (unless I come to realize that I like military medicine), and I am not thinking about doing primary care.

So here's my questions, is the minimum time I have to pay back to the military worth the obvious pros of being a part of the military??? I have been hearing a lot of bad things about general surgeons, anesthegiologists, and etc. experiences in the military.

Please discuss, I would really like to hear from those of you who have been or are currently doing your payback time.

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The majority of your fellow classmates will be confronted with the same costs, and many with the knowledge that meeting the costs will be all on them. Yet most will not take a military scholarship. So what makes you so different from a financial POV? (Lets leave aside the service issue, for which you definitely do not need a contractual obligation for service under the HPSP to fulfill, see info about FAP, elsewhere.)

So what makes you different?

I ask that because I didn't ask myself the same question when I signed, and wish I had.

The answer is probably nothing, except that debts larger than you have ever had to pay thus far in your life can seem intimidating, and you probably see yourself as someone who does pay his debts, as you should.

Just remember, the vast majority of medical students do not sign up for and know they do not need the HPSP, people with no more money than you.

You will not graduate "debt free." You will owe a big debt of service, to be paid on the military's terms, and very likely at your significant expense of opportunity and possibly at the expense of sacrificing the best opportunities you might otherwise have for training in the specialty of your choice. To the military services, that opportunity means nothing; they will squander and abuse it without conscience, because that it the way they are. To you, it ought to mean a great deal, because it will compromise your training opportunities.

If you want to serve in the armed forces, great. Do it the right way. Come to the job with all the training you can get and should have. Do the best for your patients by getting the training you should have before you go to work, not just some of the training for some of the things you will have to do. Half trained, not certified, a meat puppet for some crummy and predatory medical personnel administrator to send wherever to do whatever, that isn't professional, or respectable. That isn't even decent. But it is the Navy way.

Don't sign for HPSP. It is the wrong way to go. If you want to do military service, wait until you are done with your residency. The opportunity will always be there for you if you really want it.

i want out said:

Last time I calculated at my specialties average salary, I will have lost almost $750,000 by starting private practice 4 years behind my peers.

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To illustrate this statement further, here is a graph of the expected loss of lifetime income by taking the scholarship:

well money, in terms of opportunity cost, is one thing.

a few more issues that the experienced posters know

1) there is no guarantee you are going to get the training you want in the specialty you want
2) no guarantee you are out when your contract is up... if your specialty is in critical need e.g. because all the ENTs leave the military or we invade Iran maybe you are stop lossed. You don't argue out of that
3) maybe your wife or spouse is trying to make partner at her legal firm, or finish nursing school, or has a thriving sno cone business in your industry and you are moved for no other reason than because. what if they move you when the housing market is tanked and you lose a couple hundred thousand dollars on it?

your sanity means a lot more than money.
my advice is get your degree and do a residency in your specialty. if you have an overwhelming desire to serve... you can go into the military for a year or two on your terms. I am not sure why anyone would want to do that...
the most important part of my job is that I can quit anytime I want and start work someplace else in a couple mos for around the same salary if anyone screws with me.

former military said:

well money, in terms of opportunity cost, is one thing.

a few more issues that the experienced posters know

1) there is no guarantee you are going to get the training you want in the specialty you want
2) no guarantee you are out when your contract is up... if your specialty is in critical need e.g. because all the ENTs leave the military or we invade Iran maybe you are stop lossed. You don't argue out of that
3) maybe your wife or spouse is trying to make partner at her legal firm, or finish nursing school, or has a thriving sno cone business in your industry and you are moved for no other reason than because. what if they move you when the housing market is tanked and you lose a couple hundred thousand dollars on it?

your sanity means a lot more than money.
my advice is get your degree and do a residency in your specialty. if you have an overwhelming desire to serve... you can go into the military for a year or two on your terms. I am not sure why anyone would want to do that...
the most important part of my job is that I can quit anytime I want and start work someplace else in a couple mos for around the same salary if anyone screws with me.

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Yah, why do anything for someone else. It's all about me... Now that is "Change we can believe in". - go America

a1qwerty55 said:

Yah, why do anything for someone else. It's all about me... Now that is "Change we can believe in". - go America

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A senior officer approached me and told me the Navy was a kind uncaring machine that would chew you up and spit you out without hesitation. Where do you draw the line? What obligation does military medicine have for the physician? How do you find a reasonable balance between sacrifice and looking out for yourself and family?

Tired said:

If you invest $100 today, you will produce significantly more income over the next 20 years, than you will if you invest it in 4 years.

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Assuming a 7% annual rate of return, you're looking at $386 vs $295. I'll take a salary that pays $100,000 more each year guaranteed over investing four years earlier.

deuist said:

Assuming a 7% annual rate of return, you're looking at $386 vs $295. I'll take a salary that pays $100,000 more each year guaranteed over investing four years earlier.

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Especially because if you invested this hypothetical money four years ago, there's a good chance you didn't get the return back you hoped for by today.

Tired said:

Not quite as simple a calculation as that.

The extra money you make now, if adequately invested, will produce additional wealth up front that, when compounded over time, will result in a significant amount over the course of your life.

If you invest $100 today, you will produce significantly more income over the next 20 years, than you will if you invest it in 4 years.

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One attractive feature of the scholarship is the $20k bonus that would allow for the purchase of a house through med school. Now is a good time to get into real estate and a 4 year time horizon is reasonable to justify a purchase. Additionally, those of us with savings can leave that invested (now is a good time to invest) and ride on the scholarship rather than having to deplete our savings and take on loans.

I think in the past, it may not have been so great of a financial decision, but with the cost of med school and the $20k bonus now offered, it's hard to deny that the HPSP is, right now, more financially appealing than it ever has been.

Additionally, with Obama's plan to move out of Iraq, the demands of the military may allow for more flexibility in terms of residency selection in 4 years. Does anybody agree with this? I know those who came out in '06 were pissed because they didn't get any residency they wanted, but with this war ending, does that mean things are going to be looking better? How would you envision the forecast board in 2013?

atomi said:

Now is a good time to get into real estate and a 4 year time horizon is reasonable to justify a purchase.

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Highly debatable. You can buy low now, but having to sell in 4 years time may not be as easy as you predict.

atomi said:

I think in the past, it may not have been so great of a financial decision, but with the cost of med school and the $20k bonus now offered, it's hard to deny that the HPSP is, right now, more financially appealing than it ever has been.

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It's definitely $20K more appealing. The question is if it's still a better deal financially than the alternative of not taking it. For some folks, HPSP is a good deal. But for many, including many who take it anyway, it's going to end up costing them a lot of money.

IgD said:

How do you find a reasonable balance between sacrifice and looking out for yourself and family?

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Isn't that a great question. Even those of us who seem most negative on this board still have a great desire to serve. But that balance is very elusive.

TawMus,

Wow. Reading your comments, it is as if I have a window on my own thoughts years ago when I was working through the same decision. Let me be clear TawMus: judging from what you've written, it would be a bad decision for you to go HPSP.

probably addressed elsewhere ad nauseum but....

doesn't it concern people thinking about the scholarship that they have to offer you a big bonus now on top of the scholarship and stipend?

if the journey didn't suck so incredibly badly they wouldn't have to do that.
my guess is that bonus is going to get bigger and I also guess that the "journey is going to suck harder".

once u sign onto HPSP, is there any way out?

probably addressed elsewhere ad nauseum but....

doesn't it concern people thinking about the scholarship that they have to offer you a big bonus now on top of the scholarship and stipend?

if the journey didn't suck so incredibly badly they wouldn't have to do that.
my guess is that bonus is going to get bigger and I also guess that the "journey is going to suck harder".

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So you would consider joining if they paid you less? I just get the feeling that there's no amount that wouldn't prove to you that this is wrong decision. Not saying it is a good decisin (though obviously i thought so), just that I think you're projecting your general feelings about the military onto an innocent 20K.

once u sign onto HPSP, is there any way out?

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Once you accept a check from them the fastest way out is an internship and 4 years as a GMO.

The exception is if you drop out of medical school entirely. You can then cut them a check or serve out your time as a line officer. Of course if you dropped out because you had some sort of severe medical problem (hit by bus) I've been told they don't try and collect. Not sure if that's true, of course.

Tired said:

I also get Tuition Assistance for a Masters Program...

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Doesn't that extend your obligation 2 years? My friend took that, tried to submit his resignation and it was rejected on the basis he took tuition assistance.

Cali77 said:

once u sign onto HPSP, is there any way out?

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Briefly. Its a small window.

You are allowed to leave before school begins. For people who attend COT before 1st year and then decide to get out, this is a good time to do so.

re: "So you would consider joining if they paid you less? I just get the feeling that there's no amount that wouldn't prove to you that this is wrong decision. Not saying it is a good decisin (though obviously i thought so), just that I think you're projecting your general feelings about the military onto an innocent 20K. "


Oh, I would have paid hundred of thousands to get out early... In fact, when I was a resident at Wilford Hall there was a surgical specialist who wanted to get out early and had a job lined up at the Mayo Clinic. Mayo was to pay the air force a million dollars to get him out so they could employ him early. The military response was "we need a colorectal surgeon. we don't need a million dollars". he served his time then went.

IgD said:

Doesn't that extend your obligation 2 years? My friend took that, tried to submit his resignation and it was rejected on the basis he took tuition assistance.

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There might be an option to pay back the money in lieu of extension.

former military said:

The military response was "we need a colorectal surgeon. we don't need a million dollars". he served his time then went.

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Aren't they right? How much is 6+ years of service worth to the military? Frankly, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who think this way. I'm in a specialty thats very well-compensated on the outside. By the time I'm a civilian, who knows what will have happened. But, I chose to train inside and extend my obligation. I signed the paper agreeing to that and so did he. Its tough when the military changes the deal (stop-loss, etc) but when you want out of your initial obligation for training, I'm glad to see the military say no. Imagine the can of worms opened by letting a single doctor buy out of his contract.

Gastrapathy said:

Imagine the can of worms opened by letting a single doctor buy out of his contract.

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That's because you, like most people on this forum, know that physicians would leave in droves if buying a way out were possible. Unfortunately, the military will continue to claim that it has the best place to practice, but won't test it by forcing docs to stay in.

What about the mantra "Competitive in the civilian world, Competitive in the military"? I know there is a bigger window to NOT getting a residency in mil, but would matching cover a multitude of sins? This is my biggest question to all milmed docs and regretful HPSP'ers: If you matched into a top three choice, would the HPSP be worth it? Or is the situation too miserable to be saved by anything?

TawMus said:

I have just gotten accepted to a school that has a very high tuition. After calculating how much it would cost me to pay for tuition, books, living expenses, etc. I have come to realize that I will be close to half a million in debt not including interest.

Because of this, I recently started to entertain the idea of joining the military to pay for my education. I plan on doing the minimum time and getting the hell out (unless I come to realize that I like military medicine), and I am not thinking about doing primary care.

So here's my questions, is the minimum time I have to pay back to the military worth the obvious pros of being a part of the military??? I have been hearing a lot of bad things about general surgeons, anesthegiologists, and etc. experiences in the military.

Please discuss, I would really like to hear from those of you who have been or are currently doing your payback time.

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1. Where in the heck are you going to school, that if you lived frugally, you're going to leave with close to $500k in debt?!

2. No one can answer whether or not it's worth it for you, except you. Certainly there are reasons to not pursue milmed, and certainly there are reasons you might want to consider it. Only you can decide if it's worth it though.

Holy f5ck. I am nervous now. Um....after reading this forum I don't think I want to do the HPSP. BUT, I did not bother reading SDN and talked to a recruiter today for about an hour. At the meeting, I signed a document that let's the application process get started (he called it my scroll for Officer Training). I haven't even submitted an HPSP application yet (or applied to any branch of the service) and he made it clear that I will have plenty of time to make up mind. But this thread has made me nervous now. First off, I have made one MAJOR mistake by signing a document without fully understanding what it was. Can somewhat elaborate and save me from future mistakes? I feel like I am going through this process blindly. I just want to weigh all my options before school.

liquid8r said:

First off, I have made one MAJOR mistake by signing a document without fully understanding what it was. Can somewhat elaborate and save me from future mistakes?

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First rule is never to sign anything without reading it carefully. This is pretty much good, basic life advice in general.

I'm not throwing stones here. I seem to remember signing up for my first credit card way to young in college because a pretty young thing gave me a two liter bottle of Sprite to sign up.