Reapplicant (0 interviews) in serious need for advice

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I apologize for ths length of this post but I'm in desperate need of advice.

I submitted my secondaries really late (October-December) and was invited to 0 interviews after filling out 22 secondaries for northeast and CA (in state) schools. I'm thinking about applying this summer for the fall 2010 application cycle. It may seem silly of me but my sights are still set on the top-tier schools.

My question is what to do with my year off? I have the option to get a job (mechanical engineer in an orthopedics research lab or the VA), or to delay graduation and pursue an extra degree (Biology) and boost my GPA.

I feel like a huge failure after not getting a single interview and want to make sure that I do things right the second time around. My improvements are more volunteering, a slightly higher GPA, and this summer I'm working on new inexpensive prosthetic designs and then going to India to change the manufacturing processes at a nonprofit org that services amputees.


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My MCAT was 11V, 11S, 10B and I felt I could do better (practice exam range was 34-38). I'm not sure if I should retake it.

My GPA isn't that high but it's good for my school (MIT). Overall = 3.55 (possibly 3.60 after this semester). Science ~ 3.5, Nonscience ~3.6. It was 3.43 last year when I applied. My major is Mechanical Engineering and my minor is biomedical engineering.

Relevant ECs:

• 12-seasons of NCAA varsity sports. Competed at nationals, etc. (I think this sunk my GPA).
• Volunteer EMT-B (1 year)
• Full-time research position for two summers on insulin signaling pathways.
• Shadowing (1 summer)
• Public School Volunteer (2 yrs)
• Emergency Room Volunteer (1 summer)
• Amateur Jazz musician and arranger

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So what should I do? Stay in school? Work? Take 2 years off? Retake the MCAT? Give up? I appreciate any input.

12 seasons?

Why the insistence on "top-tier" schools? If you've been through 2 application cycles with no interviews, you might have to deal with a few hard realities:

-Your application probably isn't good enough to get serious looks from top-tier schools. Being from Cali doesn't help because the top in-state schools don't prefer in-state students (from what I've read, anyway). Your ECs are neither lacking nor eye-catchingly exceptional and your MCAT/GPA is probably good enough for a mid/low-level MD program. Unless you have a plan to either boost your MCAT 5-6 points, somehow raise your GPA to a 3.8, or insert a really fabulous research or medical leadership project into your resume, I don't see any point to applying to the same Ivy League schools yet again.

-Why do you want to go to a top-tier school? Most medical schools have similar opportunities for research, clinical medicine and specialized rotations whether they are considered elite or not. Is this just a matter of ego, or do you have a legitimate reason you haven't mentioned?

If you think you can do better than a 32, retake it. I also think you'd be better served with work experience than an extra year of school, personally.

Originally Posted by Ged42

I submitted my secondaries really late (October-December) and was invited to 0 interviews after filling out 22 secondaries for northeast and CA (in state) schools. I'm thinking about applying this summer for the fall 2010 application cycle. It may seem silly of me but my sights are still set on the top-tier schools.

You have your answers in the underlined.

Apply early - that was your single biggest problem.

Apply broadly (not just to CA and NE schools), and not just to top tiers.

Do not retake. MCAT is fine. GPA is fine, too.

Hate to say, unless you are a drastically underrepresented minority, found the cure for cancer, or some other ungodly feat, you have no reason to hold out and waste your time and money for an acceptance to top-ranked schools.

You need to apply EARLY and much, much more broadly. Your MCAT and GPA, as flip said, are perfectly decent enough to get in somewhere.

I think if you feel like you can do better on the MCAT and you're set on top tier schools, you could consider retaking. What was your actual mean on your practice tests? 4 points above what you actually got?

Your GPA is very high for a MIT grad. I had about 0.2 lower GPA than you from there, did two years of postbac and was at ~3.6 overall and got in to lots of mid/top tier schools but I had a lot higher MCAT. You probably won't be competitive to top tier schools without improving your MCAT by 3-4 points. As other posters mentioned, you need to apply a lot earlier. I would apply more broadly as well. How are your LORs/essays?

Thanks for the replies everyone. Is a 30th ranked school a possibility or should I go lower? I'm thinking Tufts or Boston University. Additionally, if I know I can get a higher MCAT score, and take post-bac courses to boost my GPA, should I do so and take 2 years off?

I guess the top-tier thing might be a matter of ego, but since I've been so effectively humbled I can drop it. As for GPA, does grade deflation count for anything? I feel like what constitutes a good undergrad GPA is constantly refined at my school, especially compared to the kindness of some ivies to their students (ie princeton, harvard).

And no, I haven't found a cure for cancer. But this summer I'm working with an international nonprofit organization to introduce new prosthetic designs to their patients. My designs would reach tens of thousands of people in countries like India, Cambodia, Columbia, Afghanistan etc. I was planning on going to India this summer to help them out. Is this enough to set me apart?

Originally Posted by Ged42

Thanks for the replies everyone. Is a 30th ranked school a possibility or should I go lower? I'm thinking Tufts or Boston University. Additionally, if I know I can get a higher MCAT score, and take post-bac courses to boost my GPA, should I do so and take 2 years off?

If you can improve your MCAT, I would apply to a mix of mid/top tier schools, but do so broadly.

agreed. mcat is the easiest way to improve this app, i'd think

your EC won't set you apart with that MCAT score, even at mid tier

with that said, i think what you are doing sounds awesome

First, dont just apply to top tier schools. Apply broadly. mid tier schools like BU, tufts, GW, GWU is still very difficult to get in just because of the fact that they got so many applicants.

Second, one thing you can do differently that will significantly improve your chance is to APPLY EARLY! I have a friend with 3.9 GPA and 35T MCAT, but he applied late, and out of 30 schools, he only got 3 interviews.

Originally Posted by witness23

with that said, i think what you are doing sounds awesome

much?? ...haha

Apply broadly (including ALL private US schools, ignore rankings), apply DO, and apply early.


IGNORE RANKINGS. This is not a contest in getting the top tier, the #1 prize is getting an MD at a North American school. There are few if any "bad" schools.
There are thousands of non-physicians who only applied to top tier schools.

I looked through the 2009-2010 MSAR and the earliest application date for many of the schools is August 15-September 1st. Can I submit my primary with my current MCAT score early June, retake mid July, and still have the new MCAT score by the earliest application date? (I don't know if this is important but I got secondary requests from all schools last year).

Originally Posted by Ged42

I looked through the 2009-2010 MSAR and the earliest application date for many of the schools is August 15-September 1st. Can I submit my primary with my current MCAT score early June, retake mid July, and still have the new MCAT score by the earliest application date? (I don't know if this is important but I got secondary requests from all schools last year).

Most schools don't screen secondaries, or only use very minimal requirements to screen. That way they get more money coming in through admissions.

A big problem for you last year was the timing of your submission. Don't make the same mistake again. If you want to apply for next year, finalize your application by the first available submission date. Applying ASAP is a big deal in med school admissions.

Originally Posted by Ged42

I looked through the 2009-2010 MSAR and the earliest application date for many of the schools is August 15-September 1st. Can I submit my primary with my current MCAT score early June, retake mid July, and still have the new MCAT score by the earliest application date? (I don't know if this is important but I got secondary requests from all schools last year).

If you turned your secondaries in then, you'd be very nearly late. The season starts in June, with the majority of secondaries out by July, with a general advised turnaround time of two weeks (not enforced).

The northeast and CA may very well be long-shots for you with your GPA/MCAT, so please apply broadly.

Originally Posted by Ged42

I looked through the 2009-2010 MSAR and the earliest application date for many of the schools is August 15-September 1st. Can I submit my primary with my current MCAT score early June, retake mid July, and still have the new MCAT score by the earliest application date? (I don't know if this is important but I got secondary requests from all schools last year).

I frankly don't know what you read, or what you think you read, in the MSAR, but this is just flat out wrong information.

Submit your primary as early in June as you are allowed.

And what "new MCAT score" are you talking about? Have you actually read the advice on this thread? Why do you think you need to retake? It was the least of your problems last year...retaking the score you got is high risk - go to AAMC and look at the retake stats...plus, a retake makes your app "later" this cycle than it has to be, reducing your chances...

So what's better:

A) Having all applications finalized in July or
B) Improving MCAT by 2-4 points and having all applications finalized in mid August?

In the MSAR when it mentions the earliest date for "filing of application" is that the earliest date to complete the secondary, or the earliest date that they consider your application post-interview?

Thanks a bunch.

Originally Posted by Ged42

So what's better:

A) Having all applications finalized in July or
B) Improving MCAT by 2-4 points and having all applications finalized in mid August?

In the MSAR when it mentions the earliest date for "filing of application" is that the earliest date to complete the secondary, or the earliest date that they consider your application post-interview?

Thanks a bunch.

You can turn in the secondaries before the MCAT score comes back, if you indeed decide to retake. Be advised that most retakers do not significantly improve their scores. However, if you feel that your performance was not up to par and you can definitely do better, take it as early as you're ready to take it.

I'm very confident that if I retook the MCAT my score would be higher. My practice range was 34-38 so I screwed up bad on the actual exam. If I took mid-july I would have 9 weeks to prepare compared to 6 weeks last summer. I've also taken more bio and chem classes since then.

So, pretending that I could guarantee a score of 35, is that worth the extra month delay in the processing of the secondary? Or should I just take my chances as they stand? Thank you very much.

You should submit AMCAS indicating that you're going to retake, and also finish the secondaries as early as possible. Schools won't mark you complete until they get your new score most likely. I definitely think it's worth it for you to retake if you were averaging 4 points higher than you scored.

What was your list of schools last cycle?

Start taking advice.

Your MCAT is fine for the majority of schools.Do not retake.
You have equal chance of increasing your MCAT or blowing your chances by dropping a few points.
If you indicate you are repeating the MCAT your application review is defacto delayed until those results are released.

Apply to as many private schools OOS you can afford.Apply in June.

Consider professional review of your personal statement and professional advice (try Judy Colwell, solid advice).

Apply early, and start some interesting EC's you can talk about at interviews.

Make sure your LOR's are not damaging.

Take one or 2 courses at an "easy" local college and start improving the GPA (or at least to allow some good news updates in Decemver).

You are where you are from your MIT inspired overconfidence. Start listening to the advice you are getting.

Cleo, thanks for the advice. I think I've been doing most of those things (improving GPA, new LOR, new ECs). How do you find out if you have a damaging LOR? I signed saying I couldn't read them. Is anyone else allowed to read them and tell me what they say?

Cleo, you said to take courses at a local college while working (the best option here would be harvard extension school). I also have the option for a 5th year + degree and I actually could get a 2nd degree with only 1 extra semester (4 classes).

To those who are interested, the schools I applied to were:
UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, USC, Stanford, UCI, Dartmouth, Yale, Boston U, Tufts, Harvard, NYMC, Einstein, Mt. Sinai, Columbia, Cornell, UCONN, NYU, Georgetown, Brown, UC Davis. I'm missing a few I can't remember off the top of my head.

I applied to a lot of mid and top schools. I also applied late, and that was mostly my fault. I didn't take the MCAT until July, then I found out a LOR was missing (he forgot to write it). That took +2 weeks. Then my advisor (who writes a packet letter) was out of the country for another several weeks, then when he came back he wrote my packet letter. THEN it was sent out to schools and by this point it was already mid november and I was sitting on my secondaries since early september. The rest is history, etc.

Cleothecat, you are 100% correct.

OP, I am going to be blunt. You applied to 22 very competitive schools and did not get a single interview invitation. Perhaps you should take this as an indicator of the fact that you are not a competitive applicant at that type of school (especially given your stats, which are perfectly fine but certainly not Harvard material). You said -- and I quote -- "It may seem silly of me but my sights are still set on the top-tier schools." You are right: you do sound silly. "I guess the top-tier thing might be a matter of ego, but since I've been so effectively humbled I can drop it" -- this is a good idea.

So here is my advice for getting into medical school. Not Hopkins, because frankly, you're not that competitive, but A medical school.

- Don't retake the MCAT. I know you think you can do better, but that's no surprise with your perception of your own competitiveness. I don't believe in "pretending" you have a certain score -- you either have it or you don't. Right now, you don't. When/if you get that 35, then I'll accept that as your score.
- Apply early. EARLY.
- Be smart about your list of schools. If you want to include some top-tiers, that's fine, but be aware that they are REACHES for you, and have the majority of your schools be places that are less competitive.
- If possible, take some more undergrad courses and raise your GPA. I know you went to MIT and all, but I don't think undergrad rigor makes a huge difference to adcoms (it makes a small difference). The higher those numbers are, the better.
- You now have more time to work on your ECs. They can always get better.

So there you have it. I'm sorry if my comments rub you the wrong way, but what hurt you this cycle was your overestimation of your qualifications. Don't make that mistake again.

Originally Posted by witness23

your EC won't set you apart with that MCAT score, even at mid tier

I think a whole bunch of applicants have similar ECs.

Originally Posted by virusgirl

Cleothecat, you are 100% correct.

OP, I am going to be blunt. You applied to 22 very competitive schools and did not get a single interview invitation. Perhaps you should take this as an indicator of the fact that you are not a competitive applicant at that type of school (especially given your stats, which are perfectly fine but certainly not Harvard material). You said -- and I quote -- "It may seem silly of me but my sights are still set on the top-tier schools." You are right: you do sound silly. "I guess the top-tier thing might be a matter of ego, but since I've been so effectively humbled I can drop it" -- this is a good idea.

So here is my advice for getting into medical school. Not Hopkins, because frankly, you're not that competitive, but A medical school.

- Don't retake the MCAT. I know you think you can do better, but that's no surprise with your perception of your own competitiveness. I don't believe in "pretending" you have a certain score -- you either have it or you don't. Right now, you don't. When/if you get that 35, then I'll accept that as your score.
- Apply early. EARLY.
- Be smart about your list of schools. If you want to include some top-tiers, that's fine, but be aware that they are REACHES for you, and have the majority of your schools be places that are less competitive.
- If possible, take some more undergrad courses and raise your GPA. I know you went to MIT and all, but I don't think undergrad rigor makes a huge difference to adcoms (it makes a small difference). The higher those numbers are, the better.
- You now have more time to work on your ECs. They can always get better.

So there you have it. I'm sorry if my comments rub you the wrong way, but what hurt you this cycle was your overestimation of your qualifications. Don't make that mistake again.

I disagree. I think undergrad rigor makes a big difference at this level, but only if the applicant has a strong MCAT store to back up their excellent (for an engineering major at MIT) grades. When I was there that type of GPA for my major would have been top 10%. I think the OP did poorly last cycle partially b/c of school choice but primarily because they applied late. I do think their MCAT hurt them in this process as well. I think if they're interested in applying to mid/top tier schools (and they apparently are) then retaking the MCAT would be a good option even it meant them taking an extra cycle. There are a lot of MIT grads at top tier schools that applied with GPAs in the 3.1-3.3 range. If you look at the average stats of an accepted MIT applicant, it was 3.1/34.

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

I disagree. I think undergrad rigor makes a big difference at this level, but only if the applicant has a strong MCAT store to back up their excellent (for an engineering major at MIT) grades. When I was there that type of GPA for my major would have been top 10%. I think the OP did poorly last cycle partially b/c of school choice but primarily because they applied late. I do think their MCAT hurt them in this process as well. I think if they're interested in applying to mid/top tier schools (and they apparently are) then retaking the MCAT would be a good option even it meant them taking an extra cycle. There are a lot of MIT grads at top tier schools that applied with GPAs in the 3.1-3.3 range. If you look at the average stats of an accepted MIT applicant, it was 3.1/34.

Retaking a 32, when the OP can't really say why his score was that "low," is pretty risky. The AAMC stats for retakers indicates it is risky.

He would be better off at this point applying early with the stats he has now. If he has little luck this fall with interview invites, he could prep for and take a January or March 2010 MCAT.

But to tell someone to run out and take a summer MCAT, which puts him back in the same boat that hurt him last year (late app) is really questionable advice.

Originally Posted by flip26

Retaking a 32, when the OP can't really say why his score was that "low," is pretty risky. The AAMC stats for retakers indicates it is risky.

He would be better off at this point applying early with the stats he has now. If he has little luck this fall with interview invites, he could prep for and take a January or March 2010 MCAT.

But to tell someone to run out and take a summer MCAT, which puts him back in the same boat that hurt him last year (late app) is really questionable advice.

If the OP wants to go to mid/top tier schools (which they do) and averaged 4 points on average than they scored on practice tests (which they indicated they did) then they should retake whether or not they want to apply this cycle. If they submitted secondaries without the new score but indicated on AMCAS that they retook, they'll be plenty on time. Being complete in August is fine. For reference, I was complete in mid September for two of the schools on his list (that I added after I submitted my primary), Dartmouth and Brown and received October interview invites for November.

I think a large portion of the issue with lack of success with retakes has to do with people reflexively retaking scores they think aren't appropriate whether or not they were consistent with how they were doing on practice tests or not. Reevaluating your preparation can also increase your score quite a bit.

I didn't get a single question about my grades at any of the 22 places I interviewed at, and my uGPA was significantly lower than the OPs. This is probably b/c I had a much higher MCAT. If the OP had a MCAT in the mid/high 30s like they are averaging in practice tests they would be competitive at all schools, IME.

I was in the same boat as you last year. Honestly, being an applicant from California is probably one of your biggest problems. CA has a huge pool of applicants, so you not only have to out-compete for CA schools, but national schools as well. Here's what I did last year, and take what you want from my experience. I only applied to 8 schools, but I got into 5 of them.

1) I moved to IL. I would recommend a state with good schools, but not huge numbers of applicants. Alabama actually has great schools and not a lot of applicants. You will have to establish residency 1 year before matriculation, and I would also do so before you submit your AMCAS.

2) I retook the MCAT. I took 1 month and a half off to study full time. Like you, my GPA wasn't amazing, so I needed my MCAT to shine.

3) Kept volunteering.

4) Got a new job doing research (continuing my research from CA).

5) Applied to a select number of schools, and schools that I thought I could be competitive. Of the 8 schools I applied to, only 4 were ranked.

6) Quick turn around on secondaries. I applied late because I took the MCAT in August, but if you can take it sooner, do so.

7) Wrote letters of interest to the schools I was really interested in.

***Be proactive. Tenacity pays off.***

Thanks for the input everyone.

There were a few ECs I didn't mention, and I thought that the amount of ECs I had might be worth something, but apparently all applicants did everything? I think my standout EC (which is in progress) is the one I mentioned in the initial post and is very relevant to my intended field of study (orthopedics).

My preparation for the MCAT last summer was six weeks of studying while working full time in a research lab and going to summer school in the mornings. I estimate I studied about 2 hours/day and I certainly wish I had committed more time. I had never taken AP bio or anatomy or cell bio or genetics at this point so it was basically a crash course. My first practice test was a 28 before studying and then 34 after four weeks in then random in the 34-38 range. I'm trying hard to remember my actual exam, but what does stick out in my memory is that the physical science section had significantly different content and barely any thermo/physics, which is the stuff I always got right. My physical science section ranged 12-14 and in the last 6 practices I took I never scored lower than 13. Bio was my weakest where I hit 11 every time and VR I hit 11-13 consistently.

I understand that my MCAT isn't good enough, but I thought GPA could compensate for MCAT, or is it only MCAT can compensate for GPA? I understand that a 3.5/3.6 might look low to you people but as drizz said, it's very good for engineering from MIT.

One last question which flip brought up. If you get an interview, you can then take the MCAT AFTER that? How late of an MCAT are we talking about here? Will schools even accept a January 2010 MCAT?

Originally Posted by Ged42

Thanks for the input everyone.

There were a few ECs I didn't mention, and I thought that the amount of ECs I had might be worth something, but apparently all applicants did everything? I think my standout EC (which is in progress) is the one I mentioned in the initial post and is very relevant to my intended field of study (orthopedics).

My preparation for the MCAT last summer was six weeks of studying while working full time in a research lab and going to summer school in the mornings. I estimate I studied about 2 hours/day and I certainly wish I had committed more time. I had never taken AP bio or anatomy or cell bio or genetics at this point so it was basically a crash course. My first practice test was a 28 before studying and then 34 after four weeks in then random in the 34-38 range. I'm trying hard to remember my actual exam, but what does stick out in my memory is that the physical science section had significantly different content and barely any thermo/physics, which is the stuff I always got right. My physical science section ranged 12-14 and in the last 6 practices I took I never scored lower than 13. Bio was my weakest where I hit 11 every time and VR I hit 11-13 consistently.

I understand that my MCAT isn't good enough, but I thought GPA could compensate for MCAT, or is it only MCAT can compensate for GPA? I understand that a 3.5/3.6 might look low to you people but as drizz said, it's very good for engineering from MIT.

One last question which flip brought up. If you get an interview, you can then take the MCAT AFTER that? How late of an MCAT are we talking about here? Will schools even accept a January 2010 MCAT?

The problem with having a lower MCAT score is that if you go to a school with a high level of academic rigor, you can definitely be a top tier candidate if you have a MCAT score that validates your academic ability. While a 32 isn't a poor score (it's about average for matriculants) you need a pretty high score for adcoms to recognize your abilities. As I said before, the average MIT matriculant has a 34+ MCAT (I think 34.8 or something was the real # but lower GPA) On a retake, hopefully you can be on the upper end of your estimates. That would make you a viable candidate at all schools, like I said. For reference, my cGPA (counting postbac) was in the mid 3.6s. With 39 MCAT I interviewed at most top tier schools.

I think if you applied, indicated that you were retaking, etc, finished your secondaries quickly, that you'd be complete with your new score in August, which is fine in terms of the timeline.

You could also send update letters to all the schools with the new score in August to make sure they know about it (although they should anyways)

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

I disagree. I think undergrad rigor makes a big difference at this level, but only if the applicant has a strong MCAT store to back up their excellent (for an engineering major at MIT) grades. When I was there that type of GPA for my major would have been top 10%. I think the OP did poorly last cycle partially b/c of school choice but primarily because they applied late. I do think their MCAT hurt them in this process as well. I think if they're interested in applying to mid/top tier schools (and they apparently are) then retaking the MCAT would be a good option even it meant them taking an extra cycle. There are a lot of MIT grads at top tier schools that applied with GPAs in the 3.1-3.3 range. If you look at the average stats of an accepted MIT applicant, it was 3.1/34.

With respect, I still don't think that attending MIT makes a huge difference. I am not saying that it is an easy school or anything like that, but I don't think that adcoms are particularly forgiving of a "low" (as compared to other applicants) GPA just because it came from MIT. I did look at the average stats of an accepted MIT applicant, and the average GPA is nowhere near a 3.1 -- it is actually 3.7 (http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html). In fact, the lowest GPA from MIT to get an acceptance in 2008 was a 3.2. I don't have much to say in response to your anecdotal assertion that there are MIT grads with 3.1 GPAs at top-tier schools, but if you do a quick search of MDApps for MIT graduates with GPAs below 3.6, you won't find any Harvard or Hopkins acceptances. A few people did get into the UC schools, but as you said, these were folks with high MCAT scores.

OP, I stand by my earlier comment that your GPA is not high enough for the top-tier schools. Ultimately, drizzt and I disagree on the importance of the perceived rigor of your school, and it is still my opinion that a 3.6 is (more or less) a 3.6, regardless of where you graduated from. Even if, in the world of adcoms, 3.6 at MIT = 3.8 anywhere else, taking additional classes and getting As in them can only help you. As I said, your grades are not bad at all, but I don't think they'll get you into the type of schools you're aiming for. If you truly believe that you can knock the MCAT out of the ballpark, then by all means have at it, and hopefully that will compensate if you truly have your heart set on a highly ranked school. But you still need to include a significant number of safeties, and you still need to apply early! I don't know how much time you spend in the pre-allo forum, but OnlyNeedOneYes had AMAZING stats and only just got his first acceptance (off of a wait-list) last week.

Originally Posted by virusgirl

With respect, I still don't think that attending MIT makes a huge difference. I am not saying that it is an easy school or anything like that, but I don't think that adcoms are particularly forgiving of a "low" (as compared to other applicants) GPA just because it came from MIT. I did look at the average stats of an accepted MIT applicant, and the average GPA is nowhere near a 3.1 -- it is actually 3.7 (http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html). In fact, the lowest GPA from MIT to get an acceptance in 2008 was a 3.2. I don't have much to say in response to your anecdotal assertion that there are MIT grads with 3.1 GPAs at top-tier schools, but if you do a quick search of MDApps for MIT graduates with GPAs below 3.6, you won't find any Harvard or Hopkins acceptances. A few people did get into the UC schools, but as you said, these were folks with high MCAT scores.

That's for people who graduated in 2008 and applied. There are plenty of people who took a year or more and applied. I got that info from an adcom so I think it's pretty legitimate. In any case, the OP's GPA is around the average for matriculants from all schools, so it's not a weakness.

OP, I stand by my earlier comment that your GPA is not high enough for the top-tier schools. Ultimately, drizzt and I disagree on the importance of the perceived rigor of your school, and it is still my opinion that a 3.6 is (more or less) a 3.6, regardless of where you graduated from. Even if, in the world of adcoms, 3.6 at MIT = 3.8 anywhere else, taking additional classes and getting As in them can only help you. As I said, your grades are not bad at all, but I don't think they'll get you into the type of schools you're aiming for. If you truly believe that you can knock the MCAT out of the ballpark, then by all means have at it, and hopefully that will compensate if you truly have your heart set on a highly ranked school. But you still need to include a significant number of safeties, and you still need to apply early! I don't know how much time you spend in the pre-allo forum, but OnlyNeedOneYes had AMAZING stats and only just got his first acceptance (off of a wait-list) last week.

I agree that the OP definitely needs to retake if they want to be competitive for top tier schools.

Originally Posted by Ged42

Thanks for the input everyone.

There were a few ECs I didn't mention, and I thought that the amount of ECs I had might be worth something, but apparently all applicants did everything? I think my standout EC (which is in progress) is the one I mentioned in the initial post and is very relevant to my intended field of study (orthopedics).

My preparation for the MCAT last summer was six weeks of studying while working full time in a research lab and going to summer school in the mornings. I estimate I studied about 2 hours/day and I certainly wish I had committed more time. I had never taken AP bio or anatomy or cell bio or genetics at this point so it was basically a crash course. My first practice test was a 28 before studying and then 34 after four weeks in then random in the 34-38 range. I'm trying hard to remember my actual exam, but what does stick out in my memory is that the physical science section had significantly different content and barely any thermo/physics, which is the stuff I always got right. My physical science section ranged 12-14 and in the last 6 practices I took I never scored lower than 13. Bio was my weakest where I hit 11 every time and VR I hit 11-13 consistently.

I understand that my MCAT isn't good enough, but I thought GPA could compensate for MCAT, or is it only MCAT can compensate for GPA? I understand that a 3.5/3.6 might look low to you people but as drizz said, it's very good for engineering from MIT.

One last question which flip brought up. If you get an interview, you can then take the MCAT AFTER that? How late of an MCAT are we talking about here? Will schools even accept a January 2010 MCAT?

No.

For the upcoming cycle, individual schools set deadlines for MCAT scores that will be accepted for the cycle. The deadlines I have seen have been the later August dates - I would not interpret that deadline as a goal, anymore than an applicant should view the November 1 secondary deadline as a goal. For many schools, taking the MCAT in September is too late for the current cycle, so beware.

You do know that MCAT testing goes on hiatus between September and late January, right?

What the MCAT deadline means is that even if you get a higher MCAT score during the cycle (say a January result), they will not consider it. My point was that you should go ahead with what you currently have, apply in June, and see how the cycle goes for you this Fall - if you get a bunch of interviews, and maybe even an acceptance or two at rolling admissions schools, by Nov/Dec, you could then punt the idea of retaking. My belief is that you were hurt more by your late app last year than by your MCAT score.

But if the cycle goes poorly, you could then focus on retaking the MCAT next Jan to April, and get ready for the following cycle.

Of course, none of this advice will be of any use to you if you apply to only "top tier" schools.

If you are scheduled for an MCAT retake and indicate it, AMCAS notifies the schools, and those schools usually set aside your application until the new scores are available.

If your current MCAT is above 30, the negative impact of becoming a "delayed" application will far outweigh a possible 1 or 2 point increment in your MCAT score.

Apply early, and only retake MCAT if your scores are marginal. Scores above 30-32 are not really marginal.

I think getting everything done EARLY and having a great PS (get a lot of people to read it) will be your best bet. You can get into decent schools with your stats.

Besides, I think and correct me if I'm wrong, but people typically do better on practice MCATs than the real thing anyway...there is no need to retake unless you were getting solid 38s and 40s.

He's planning to take the MCAT in July. If he gets the secondaries in ASAP, he'll be complete in August when the new score arrives at the schools, which is NOT LATE. If you think about it, most secondaries arrive in late June to early July. In many cases, you won't be complete until August anyways because you have to write and submit the secondaries. Again, if he's looking at mid/top tier schools, he should retake the MCAT.

Wow, I really appreciate all the responses. I have 4 questions:

1. One thing I noticed is that at a lot of the schools I applied to my MCAT score was their accepted average or slightly higher. (ie BostonU, UCONN, Georgetown, Tufts (+1)). Does this mean I meet the "technical" criteria for the school so they'll focus on other qualifications? I have some really good new LORs and PS this cycle. (Imo my PS sucked last year, I tried to say too many things).

2. What is the difference between submitting a secondary and indicating an MCAT score is coming versus waiting to submit the secondary when the MCAT score comes? And this leads to #3.

3. Is it feasible to be able to finish +20 secondaries in less than a month while studying for the MCAT, while also working on another project (in my case the world prosthetics thing)?

4. What is the minimum MCAT score increase I need over 32 to justify the 1 month delay?

Thank you all very much.

Originally Posted by Ged42

Wow, I really appreciate all the responses. I have 4 questions:

1. One thing I noticed is that at a lot of the schools I applied to my MCAT score was their accepted average or slightly higher. (ie BostonU, UCONN, Georgetown, Tufts (+1)). Does this mean I meet the "technical" criteria for the school so they'll focus on other qualifications? I have some really good new LORs and PS this cycle. (Imo my PS sucked last year, I tried to say too many things).

Yes but keep in mind those schools get a lot of applications so you have to stand out in general. UConn is also a state school so...

2. What is the difference between submitting a secondary and indicating an MCAT score is coming versus waiting to submit the secondary when the MCAT score comes? And this leads to #3.

I would submit earlier just so they at least have the secondary. It shouldn't really make a difference though.

3. Is it feasible to be able to finish +20 secondaries in less than a month while studying for the MCAT, while also working on another project (in my case the world prosthetics thing)?

Yes. Especially since the questions are probably reasonably similar to last year. I finished 32 secondaries by mid/late July while working full time.

4. What is the minimum MCAT score increase I need over 32 to justify the 1 month delay?

Thank you all very much.

You'd want a 3 point or higher increasee to make any difference at all, given a retake.