My comments regarding DPM income

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Since I joined this forum a short time ago, there have been an overwhelming number of posts/threads regarding income, potential income, starting salaries, fair salaries, unfair salaries, etc.

I'd like to finally make a few statements based on my experience in the field for quite a number of years and my exposure to small practices and huge practices. I am aware of the practice patterns and demographics East, North, South and West. I'm aware of small "palliative" practices and large state of the art surgical practices.

I'm a member of a very large group practice that encompasses the full spectrum of what "we do", from routine palliative care to major reconstructive procedures, from house calls to nursing home visits to in-house patients. Our practice does "everything".

I have friends in most specialties of medicine and dentistry. I can tell you that with the exception of cardiologists, we have to work pretty damned hard for OUR money compared to other professions.

Although as a DPM there really is no ceiling to what you can earn, realistically, most DPM's will make a VERY decent living, way ahead of the curve, but will not become rich quick and will have to work hard for their money.

We perform very few procedures that pay very well on a consistent basis, especially if you participate with insurance companies which most of us have to do to survive. During the course of a day, you will bill for office visits and other procedures such as x-rays, injections, strappings, application of a cast, biopsies, etc., all which pay relatively small amounts.

Yes, these procedures do all add up, but none of these items are "big ticket" items. There is a nice profit dispensing custom orthoses and performing ESWT (since it's not covered by most insurance), but the majority of what we do on a daily basis are RELATIVELY small procedures that add up in the long run. The few surgical procedures we may do weekly may be the the bigger ticket/more prestigious items, but please remember that when those patients are seen post-operatively, there is usually a 30,60 or 90 "global fee" period where you can not bill for any services related to that procedure.

Additionally, when you are in the hospital performing these procedures, you are not in your office generating any income.

This is similar to a GP or internist. Although GP's and internists certainly earn a very respectable living, there are very few "big ticket" items they bill on a regular basis. Yes, they perform ECG's on many patients, but they also bill a lot of office visit codes, etc., which add up at the end of the day, but aren't BIG items.

On the other hand, an ophthamologist can book 10-15 cataracts 2-3 days a week and make at least 800-900 dollars a shot. It only takes about 15-20 minutes MAXIMUM per procedure, so they can perform a lot in one day. And the follow up does not involve any wound care, dressing changes, x-rays, etc. Additionally, the ophthamologist can perform one Lasik procedure at $2,500-$5,000 a pop, also which takes about 15 minutes. And they book several at a time.

That's how these docs bring home the REALLY big numbers.

Plastic surgeons are obvious, since they perform elective surgery and command high fees that are paid by the patient. Similarly, many dermatolotists are making HUGE money by billing for cosmetic procedures such as Botox injections, Restylene, Sculptra, etc., which makes them thousands of extra dollars daily.

That adds up to a LOT of money because these are "big ticket" items.

One of my friends is an endodontist. He owns 3 homes, each worth at least 1 million dollars, and owns several shopping centers. I can't even count how many cars he owns. He doesn't work nearly as hard as any member of my practice, yet brings home HUGE money.

He sees a handful of patients daily, whereas members of my practice can see 35, 45, 60 patients a day. However, each procedure he does is probably a minimum of $1,000. EVERY procedure he performs is a "big ticket item". A basic route canal in his office can be performed in well less than an hour, and is about $1,000. You do the math.

So, what I'm saying again is that as a DPM you can absolutely earn an excellent income and be well above the curve. You will have to work hard for your money, since we don't have too many "big ticket items". If you build a big practice and have associates and/or partners, naturally your income will also increase as others produce income for you.

However, you can't "compete" with some specialties that have the ability to consistently bill "big ticket" items all day long as a natural part of their specialty, even if they don't seem to be working quite as hard.

Naturally, there will ALWAYS be exceptions to my comments. You can always find some DPM that is off the charts (in either direction), but I'm speaking in general terms.

So please take this post for exactly what it is.......MY perspective on our great profession. Worry about your present schooling, worry about your residency training and PLEASE worry about providing the absolute best quality of care to your patients.

You WILL have the ability to make a very good living in the future, but there may be some specialties that by the nature of their business do better, and there are other specialties they may not do as well as you.

Overall, you WILL eventually be rewarded for all your efforts.

This is one of the best posts in a veryyyy long time on SDN. I belive this excellent analysis is what everyone was looking for from the start lol THANK YOU!

Originally Posted by PADPM

Overall, you WILL eventually be rewarded for all your efforts.

I agree. This is the bottom line.

Originally Posted by 215512

Well put PADPM.

Making new names Theta?

ChiNau... yikes

Originally Posted by JEWmongous

Making new names Theta?

On a serious note, thank you for the words of wisdom.

This is one of the best and most mature posts I have seen regarding this issue. Thank you doctor!

I'm going to go ahead and "sticky" this at the top of the forum since this covers a lot of commonly asked questions regarding DPM salary.

Will you be making more money if you graduate from a 3 year residency as opposed to a 2 or 1 year residency?

.

Very informative. Thanks!

Thank you very much!

That verily was an excellent post. There do remain some procedures and/or avenues of practice which are extremely profitable. The personal injury, motor vehicle accident cases which involve injury to the lower extremity makes for an interesting and profitable aspect of any practice.

By networking with attorneys, chiropractors, physical therapists and others who have large populations of individuals in need of your specialized services this can be extremely rewarding.

It would behoove the practitioner in training to place some emphasis on documentation for litigation and depositions. This preparation will make you an asset to any practice you may be interviewing to join. Or, if you strike out on your own serve as preparation for years of expertise not otherwise an area popular among many podiatrists.

Reviewing the work of Travell and Simons re: Trigger Point injection therapies and having that information at your disposal will make for a compelling interview and may, land you a position beyond your expectations.

You're post was direct and to the point, that there are no `big ticket' items in a podiatrists practice. And being on insurance plans is not a sure fire way to build a following. Often out-of-network providers can appreciate a greater reimbursement.

Because of the ever changing environment it's best to be knowledgable, equipped and skilled with all aspects of billable procedures. At the end of the day - actually the quarter - it's what you've brought into the practice that will count. If you're not going to be `earning' , there won't be much of a need for even the most highly trained foot surgeon.


My partners and I are always looking for talented providers.

Originally Posted by doctazero

That verily was an excellent post. There do remain some procedures and/or avenues of practice which are extremely profitable. The personal injury, motor vehicle accident cases which involve injury to the lower extremity makes for an interesting and profitable aspect of any practice.

By networking with attorneys, chiropractors, physical therapists and others who have large populations of individuals in need of your specialized services this can be extremely rewarding.

It would behoove the practitioner in training to place some emphasis on documentation for litigation and depositions. This preparation will make you an asset to any practice you may be interviewing to join. Or, if you strike out on your own serve as preparation for years of expertise not otherwise an area popular among many podiatrists.

Reviewing the work of Travell and Simons re: Trigger Point injection therapies and having that information at your disposal will make for a compelling interview and may, land you a position beyond your expectations.

You're post was direct and to the point, that there are no `big ticket' items in a podiatrists practice. And being on insurance plans is not a sure fire way to build a following. Often out-of-network providers can appreciate a greater reimbursement.

Because of the ever changing environment it's best to be knowledgable, equipped and skilled with all aspects of billable procedures. At the end of the day - actually the quarter - it's what you've brought into the practice that will count. If you're not going to be `earning' , there won't be much of a need for even the most highly trained foot surgeon.


My partners and I are always looking for talented providers.

Excellent post, though I'd like to make some comments;

1) Although networking with attiorneys, chiropractors, etc., is an excellent idea, I know of very few practices who earn a significant portion of their income that way in today's environment. And you must be VERY careful. There are many less than ethical attorneys and chiropractor who are more interested in building a case and running up the numbers than they are with getting a patient better.

2) I did not say we perform NO "big ticket" items, but that we don't perform "big ticket items" on a regular basis. Yes, we may get that patient who needs and pays for ESWT or laser treatment for nail fungus (for those who offer that treatment), but that's much different than the endodontist who performs "big ticket" items on the majority of patients who enter the door.

3) I do not agree with your comment that being on an insurance panel may not build up your practice. Patients are now very internet savvy and our practice is constantly treating new patients who found us on the insurance company website under "preferred/in-network providers". In some geographic areas, being out of network could be suicide. Yes, it may pay better but I think it's safe to say that it's a fact that the vast majority of patients will seek the care of an in network provider if available.

4) I agree it is extremely important to be up to date, skilled and knowledgable with billing, as long as that does not interfere with your judgement of what is ultimately really NEEDED for the benefit of the patient and not your wallet.

Originally Posted by PADPM

You WILL have the ability to make a very good living in the future....

Overall, you WILL eventually be rewarded for all your efforts.

In 2012, do you still believe this?

Originally Posted by JonScholl

In 2012, do you still believe this?

Absolutely.

Very informative, thanks.

Thanks, you sound like a family member of mine who is an older Podiatrist. Nice to have non controversial dialogue.

My question to you WITHOUT starting controversy should you read this is quite simply, if you had or have a kid, would you encourage them to go into Podiatry now or in the future???

Is the hassles, return on investment, strugggles, 200,000 plus in student loans, debt, etc... something that is feasible today. I repeat, I suspect you have your own private practice, equipment, established name and reputation and no student loan debt. Thank you sir, Neil.

I have encouraged my children to pursue whatever makes THEM happy. I would and have discussed the pros and cons with each of their choices, since I do have a little more experience in the real world. However, ultimately they need to choose based on hearing my thoughts balanced with their interests.

Without side stepping your question, I'm not sure I would encourage anyone to enter medicine, not just isolating podiatry. There are certainly easier ways to make money without the time and financial commitment.

However, I don't see the doom amd gloom in medicine, and it's really all relative. Although the BIG money may not be as prevalent today as it was in the past, I still know of very few doctors (podiatrists included) who are not doing well financially. Sure, my friend an orthopod is whining about his 600,000 income, because he USED to make 850,000. Similarly, in our practice we all made more a few years ago, but that doesn't mean we are hurting. It's just that those in medicine are working harder or treating more patients to make the same amount as the past.

Yes, I'm in a large established practice with several locations and a payroll of about 30 employees, not counting the doctors ( 5 partners and the remaining docs are associates). So we probably are slightly larger than the average podiatric practice. And despite those who preach doom and gloom, and despite that your brother and uncle seem unhappy, I see it differently.

Our practice is crazy busy and can often see over 100 patients daily in one office. We are NOT seen or treated as second class where we work. We routinely receive consults for wound care, reconstructions, amputations, etc., from the vascular surgeons, including the chief of vascular surgery at a major nationally know hospital. We receive calls from the ER, infectious disease docs, etc., regularly for our skills. Several times a day we are getting calls from PCP offices to squeeze a pt in for trauma, infections, etc, not just for nail trimming.

So I'm coming from a whole different perspective. Our office at times is too busy and it gets stressful, but busy pays the bills. Despite comments on this site, our office has fortunately not lost pts to orthopedists, physical therapists, dermatologists, nurse practioners, nail salons, etc.

So my kids would have a great opportunity, since they would have a busy practice waiting, but that's not what they chose. And with the universities they attended and their GPAs, I'm confident they would be accepted to allopathic, osteopathic, dental or podiatric school (yep, I'm bragging).

So I will repeat that I believe with hard work, dedication and strong ethics, you can earn a very comfortable living in this field. New grads have better training than in the past, and in my personal opinion, the profession is threatened by those who believe surgery will be the only treatment option offered to patients. What makes our profession unique and rewarding is our ability to allow the majority of our patients to leave our offices more comfortable than when they arrived, without surgical intervention. If that goes away, the profession will not survive.

And I do appreciate the civility of your post and would hope that you consider posting future posts in a similar manner.

Thanksm

Pods make a lot, they can at least, and that's the bottom line. A neighbor down the road has multiple homes in the 500 plus range, drives a hummer and appears to have a good practice (Italian guy that wears watches like the bird-man rap star from the early 2000s). What I can say hurts this guy though (and may have affected his practice) is his character. He won't be getting any positions representing podiatric medicine the way some other podiatrists do, and I can't picture his practice getting better (he technically may be Ivy league trained, I'm not sure - he doesn't act bright at least, he talks like people from the Sopranos TV show). The ones that have the growing practices are the serious pods, that have excellent credentials, are really friendly, have a good business sense, are well rounded, and you can tell have a lot of brains and didn't do pod as a back up. Some pods have websites that look like a 2 year old made them, littered with bad formatting and cheap graphics, and that can't help their business. Sometimes a simple website can look clean and great, many times the big "hedge funds" have the simplest websites, but obviously they make some of the most of any business. I know a pod who is expanding his offices all over and back a couple years ago his house was about 8-900K where that would be a big house. Some pods do great, some do good, and others don't do quite as well financially.

PADPM - Thanks for answering my question. As you might see I am not the most popular guy but definitely the most curious and not one to settle for company speak. Students and residents with little if any real world information are always the quickest to speak, jump and critique but I'd rather get info from the player not the watcher. thank you

....

FYI - I am a rez dir and in private pract like many others. One of my former residents now two years out visited last week. Joined a multi specialty group, two Orthos neither a foot / ankle guy, hate feet and are, well let's say, pod "tolerant". Between 8-6 M - F and his own nursing home gig on the weekend his taxable gross on his 1040 was 347,000. Turns down nothing, no entitlement mentality, will clip nails or do a triple, old school work ethic. Just a JOHN DOE, DPM who is motivated. I begged him not to show the FP or Ped because it is about 3 times what they make. Podiatry remains medicines best kept specialty. People who complain or don't make it should look in the mirror.

Do most podiatrists in multispecialty clinics/ortho groups make those kind of salaries?

Originally Posted by willingdoc

Do most podiatrists in multispecialty clinics/ortho groups make those kind of salaries?

I don't believe so Sir. I have been out about 30 years now and this is what I would consider 80's money. This individual is a real hustler who walked into an opportunity where every doc in the group treated a foot complaint with 800 Ibuprofen and go get a pair of "Sketchers", lol. Opposed to my early days, 800 Ibuprofen and a "Tulis" heel cup! The Orthos are in foot denial because of all the hips, knees, back, arms, shoulders, etc...

He is also astute on reimb. Jumping into Neuroma surgery, what, 3 -4 hundred? With an H/P, x-rays, cort inj, pt, ultrasound, orthotics, whatever first, he understood he can triple the reimb even prior to the surgery. Same with heels, etc... Some of my residents are way to quick to cut but they want cases for their boards.

Because of our great scope, we are not as palliative as the East Coast programs and have always been considered leaders and in the forefront as far as Orthopedic / Surgical management of the foot. The East coast nail clipping and wound care however may have to have more focus at our program though since it can be quite lucrative for the time being.

The kid is doing great, luck happens to those that do their homework though!

Originally Posted by Shannon44

I don't believe so Sir. I have been out about 30 years now and this is what I would consider 80's money. This individual is a real hustler who walked into an opportunity where every doc in the group treated a foot complaint with 800 Ibuprofen and go get a pair of "Sketchers", lol. Opposed to my early days, 800 Ibuprofen and a "Tulis" heel cup! The Orthos are in foot denial because of all the hips, knees, back, arms, shoulders, etc...

He is also astute on reimb. Jumping into Neuroma surgery, what, 3 -4 hundred? With an H/P, x-rays, cort inj, pt, ultrasound, orthotics, whatever first, he understood he can triple the reimb even prior to the surgery. Same with heels, etc... Some of my residents are way to quick to cut but they want cases for their boards.

Because of our great scope, we are not as palliative as the East Coast programs and have always been considered leaders and in the forefront as far as Orthopedic / Surgical management of the foot. The East coast nail clipping and wound care however may have to have more focus at our program though since it can be quite lucrative for the time being.

The kid is doing great, luck happens to those that do their homework though!

I agree with many of your points, specifically about the reality of income, and the fact that surgical intervention isn't necessarily the greatest method of becoming wealthy .

However, I'm not sure I agree with the East Coast references. Our practice is planning on possibly hiring another associate in the next year. As a result, I've spoken with several residents who are training at East Coast programs and none have any real exposure to palliative care, and only a few even have exposure to wound care. They have significant trauma and surgical experience.

Additionally the scope of practice in many East Coast states is very liberal and I believe Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey and Pennsylvania have pretty broad scopes of practice.

Forgive my ignorance but what does scope have to do with residency training? It is my understanding that while you are a resident, you are not limited by the states podiatric scope of practice.

Originally Posted by hematosis

Forgive my ignorance but what does scope have to do with residency training? It is my understanding that while you are a resident, you are not limited by the states podiatric scope of practice.

Yes, residents are allowed to participate in procedures outside their specialty, and that's what allows them to rotate through general surgery, ER, plastics, etc.

However, in reality their scope while rotating through podiatric surgery is limited, because the attendings bringing cases to the hospital ARE limited by what the law allows.

Originally Posted by PADPM

Yes, residents are allowed to participate in procedures outside their specialty, and that's what allows them to rotate through general surgery, ER, plastics, etc.

However, in reality their scope while rotating through podiatric surgery is limited, because the attendings bringing cases to the hospital ARE limited by what the law allows.

Exactly, and how could this be remedied? Change the degree to DPM / MD or MDP or whatever that would allow the Podiatry residents the education and training not to be dependent upon other medical specialties to learn medicine. "Whoops, I'm in trouble, touched the foot, I mean leg 2cm above the malleoli". "My bad". The APMA is like any other political organization that maintains the status quo rather than risk true advancement.

30 years ago there was supposed to be parity by now and guess what, more of the same. Change the degree with education NOT legislation and make the 50 scopes, 50 States, a relic of the past. A lot of awards, pomp and ceremony with a lot of back slapping but nothing more than project 2000 what......

John Doe, DPM
____________ Community Hospital

Originally Posted by PADPM

I have encouraged my children to pursue whatever makes THEM happy. I would and have discussed the pros and cons with each of their choices, since I do have a little more experience in the real world. However, ultimately they need to choose based on hearing my thoughts balanced with their interests.

Without side stepping your question, I'm not sure I would encourage anyone to enter medicine, not just isolating podiatry. There are certainly easier ways to make money without the time and financial commitment.

However, I don't see the doom amd gloom in medicine, and it's really all relative. Although the BIG money may not be as prevalent today as it was in the past, I still know of very few doctors (podiatrists included) who are not doing well financially. Sure, my friend an orthopod is whining about his 600,000 income, because he USED to make 850,000. Similarly, in our practice we all made more a few years ago, but that doesn't mean we are hurting. It's just that those in medicine are working harder or treating more patients to make the same amount as the past.

Yes, I'm in a large established practice with several locations and a payroll of about 30 employees, not counting the doctors ( 5 partners and the remaining docs are associates). So we probably are slightly larger than the average podiatric practice. And despite those who preach doom and gloom, and despite that your brother and uncle seem unhappy, I see it differently.

Our practice is crazy busy and can often see over 100 patients daily in one office. We are NOT seen or treated as second class where we work. We routinely receive consults for wound care, reconstructions, amputations, etc., from the vascular surgeons, including the chief of vascular surgery at a major nationally know hospital. We receive calls from the ER, infectious disease docs, etc., regularly for our skills. Several times a day we are getting calls from PCP offices to squeeze a pt in for trauma, infections, etc, not just for nail trimming.

So I'm coming from a whole different perspective. Our office at times is too busy and it gets stressful, but busy pays the bills. Despite comments on this site, our office has fortunately not lost pts to orthopedists, physical therapists, dermatologists, nurse practioners, nail salons, etc.

So my kids would have a great opportunity, since they would have a busy practice waiting, but that's not what they chose. And with the universities they attended and their GPAs, I'm confident they would be accepted to allopathic, osteopathic, dental or podiatric school (yep, I'm bragging).

So I will repeat that I believe with hard work, dedication and strong ethics, you can earn a very comfortable living in this field. New grads have better training than in the past, and in my personal opinion, the profession is threatened by those who believe surgery will be the only treatment option offered to patients. What makes our profession unique and rewarding is our ability to allow the majority of our patients to leave our offices more comfortable than when they arrived, without surgical intervention. If that goes away, the profession will not survive.

And I do appreciate the civility of your post and would hope that you consider posting future posts in a similar manner.

Thanksm

Would a 3.4 science gpa get me into pod school? I'm looking to switch to something that pays more than PT

Originally Posted by wjs010

Would a 3.4 science gpa get me into pod school? I'm looking to switch to something that pays more than PT

Yes, definitely.

About 3 years ago I was in a pre-physical therapy major planning to apply to DPT school. After working as a rehab tech in a PT office for 2 years and researching the starting salaries I decided I wanted more as well. So I took organic chemistry my senior year of undergrad and somehow I fell into podiatry.. and now I'm starting my third year.

WIth that being said, I wouldn't switch from DPT to DPM strictly for a higher income. The tuition for DPT school is significantly cheaper, the program is 3 years (compared to 4), and there is no residency.

Originally Posted by PADPM

Since I joined this forum a short time ago, there have been an overwhelming number of posts/threads regarding income, potential income, starting salaries, fair salaries, unfair salaries, etc.

I'd like to finally make a few statements based on my experience in the field for quite a number of years and my exposure to small practices and huge practices. I am aware of the practice patterns and demographics East, North, South and West. I'm aware of small "palliative" practices and large state of the art surgical practices.

I'm a member of a very large group practice that encompasses the full spectrum of what "we do", from routine palliative care to major reconstructive procedures, from house calls to nursing home visits to in-house patients. Our practice does "everything".

I have friends in most specialties of medicine and dentistry. I can tell you that with the exception of cardiologists, we have to work pretty damned hard for OUR money compared to other professions.

Although as a DPM there really is no ceiling to what you can earn, realistically, most DPM's will make a VERY decent living, way ahead of the curve, but will not become rich quick and will have to work hard for their money.

We perform very few procedures that pay very well on a consistent basis, especially if you participate with insurance companies which most of us have to do to survive. During the course of a day, you will bill for office visits and other procedures such as x-rays, injections, strappings, application of a cast, biopsies, etc., all which pay relatively small amounts.

Yes, these procedures do all add up, but none of these items are "big ticket" items. There is a nice profit dispensing custom orthoses and performing ESWT (since it's not covered by most insurance), but the majority of what we do on a daily basis are RELATIVELY small procedures that add up in the long run. The few surgical procedures we may do weekly may be the the bigger ticket/more prestigious items, but please remember that when those patients are seen post-operatively, there is usually a 30,60 or 90 "global fee" period where you can not bill for any services related to that procedure.

Additionally, when you are in the hospital performing these procedures, you are not in your office generating any income.

This is similar to a GP or internist. Although GP's and internists certainly earn a very respectable living, there are very few "big ticket" items they bill on a regular basis. Yes, they perform ECG's on many patients, but they also bill a lot of office visit codes, etc., which add up at the end of the day, but aren't BIG items.

On the other hand, an ophthamologist can book 10-15 cataracts 2-3 days a week and make at least 800-900 dollars a shot. It only takes about 15-20 minutes MAXIMUM per procedure, so they can perform a lot in one day. And the follow up does not involve any wound care, dressing changes, x-rays, etc. Additionally, the ophthamologist can perform one Lasik procedure at $2,500-$5,000 a pop, also which takes about 15 minutes. And they book several at a time.

That's how these docs bring home the REALLY big numbers.

Plastic surgeons are obvious, since they perform elective surgery and command high fees that are paid by the patient. Similarly, many dermatolotists are making HUGE money by billing for cosmetic procedures such as Botox injections, Restylene, Sculptra, etc., which makes them thousands of extra dollars daily.

That adds up to a LOT of money because these are "big ticket" items.

One of my friends is an endodontist. He owns 3 homes, each worth at least 1 million dollars, and owns several shopping centers. I can't even count how many cars he owns. He doesn't work nearly as hard as any member of my practice, yet brings home HUGE money.

He sees a handful of patients daily, whereas members of my practice can see 35, 45, 60 patients a day. However, each procedure he does is probably a minimum of $1,000. EVERY procedure he performs is a "big ticket item". A basic route canal in his office can be performed in well less than an hour, and is about $1,000. You do the math.

So, what I'm saying again is that as a DPM you can absolutely earn an excellent income and be well above the curve. You will have to work hard for your money, since we don't have too many "big ticket items". If you build a big practice and have associates and/or partners, naturally your income will also increase as others produce income for you.

However, you can't "compete" with some specialties that have the ability to consistently bill "big ticket" items all day long as a natural part of their specialty, even if they don't seem to be working quite as hard.

Naturally, there will ALWAYS be exceptions to my comments. You can always find some DPM that is off the charts (in either direction), but I'm speaking in general terms.

So please take this post for exactly what it is.......MY perspective on our great profession. Worry about your present schooling, worry about your residency training and PLEASE worry about providing the absolute best quality of care to your patients.

You WILL have the ability to make a very good living in the future, but there may be some specialties that by the nature of their business do better, and there are other specialties they may not do as well as you.

Overall, you WILL eventually be rewarded for all your efforts.

Awesome post padpm...the knowledge and experience you shared helped a lot as it was impartial and objective inspite of your being a podiatrist. As a podiatry student I value posts like that. Thanks!

Originally Posted by JonScholl

Yes, definitely.

About 3 years ago I was in a pre-physical therapy major planning to apply to DPT school. After working as a rehab tech in a PT office for 2 years and researching the starting salaries I decided I wanted more as well. So I took organic chemistry my senior year of undergrad and somehow I fell into podiatry.. and now I'm starting my third year.

WIth that being said, I wouldn't switch from DPT to DPM strictly for a higher income. The tuition for DPT school is significantly cheaper, the program is 3 years (compared to 4), and there is no residency.

This is basically how I feel. I'm vacillating between DPT and DPM. I took the GRE and scored a 1300 composite, having fulfilled nearly all of the classes for DPT, as well as the hours. However, what bothers me most about DPT is the earning potential. You basically cap at 85k, whereas that is not necessarily the case for DPM. Even though there is another year tagged on and a residency, over time, the ability to pay the debt back may be greater for DPM than it is for DPT. And I also like the idea that my paycheck is commensurate with the amount of work I input.

February 2013 issue of Podiatry Management magazine reports 9 percent drop in median income for solo podiatrists, $117,750. And 15 percent drop for group podiatrists, $125,000. At quick glance, looks like significant decrease since last survey, also looks much lower than numbers seen on salary reporting sites. Curious if anyone has any thoughts or comments.

(I would have thought that mean net income would be better indicator than median, but apparently median is better representation for this type of survey)

Originally Posted by Creflo

February 2013 issue of Podiatry Management magazine reports 9 percent drop in median income for solo podiatrists,

I anticipate this to only get worse. There will be a 2% cut on March 1 for Medicare providers as part of sequestration. The new Simpson Bowles plan recommends further cuts to health providers.

Providers are an easy target for lawmakers, but physicians only receive 20% of the healthcare dollar.

Originally Posted by diabeticfootdr

I anticipate this to only get worse. There will be a 2% cut on March 1 for Medicare providers as part of sequestration. The new Simpson Bowles plan recommends further cuts to health providers.

Providers are an easy target for lawmakers, but physicians only receive 20% of the healthcare dollar.

Interesting. Where does the bulk of the other 80% go? Insurance companies? Mid-levels?

Do you grind nails: 72% yes.
Do you work in a nursing home: 29% yes.
Board certified: 67% yes (doesn't specify which board)
2012 Student Loan Repayment: $15,244 (13% increase)

609 Responses: 13% in practice less than 1 year, 14% in practice 1-5 years. ~164 young docs

Median Net Income by Years in Practice
<1: 77,500
1-5: 93,250
6-10: 129,250
11-20: 133,250
21-30: 140,000
30+: 119,250

Originally Posted by Creflo

February 2013 issue of Podiatry Management magazine reports 9 percent drop in median income for solo podiatrists, $117,750. And 15 percent drop for group podiatrists, $125,000. At quick glance, looks like significant decrease since last survey, also looks much lower than numbers seen on salary reporting sites. Curious if anyone has any thoughts or comments.

(I would have thought that mean net income would be better indicator than median, but apparently median is better representation for this type of survey)

Just a thought. Many of the successful, higher revenue generating podiatrists I've asked about this over the years told me they were too busy to answer surveys. I think sometimes the data might be skewed a bit due to this.

That said, I believe that paying attention to the business of medicine makes most of the difference between decreasing or increasing (at least maintaining) net revenue levels. Paying attention will become increasingly more important as healthcare moves from volume to value. It has been my experience that many smaller practices do not manage much, and certainly could experience such a decline. All of my clients (I am a podiatric practice management consultant, 25 years in practice now) however, saw revenue increases in 2012.

Originally Posted by Just Sayin

Just a thought. Many of the successful, higher revenue generating podiatrists I've asked about this over the years told me they were too busy to answer surveys. I think sometimes the data might be skewed a bit due to this.

I think it's safe and accurate to say that our practice is the largest and busiest in our region. And not one of our partners has ever taken the time to answer one of these surveys. We simply don't have the time. Our time is spent on items we believe have a higher priority than taking a survey.