Research

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For more competitive specialities, how much research in med school is considered substantial and enough? One summer? Two?

I've had this question too. It would seem that one summer and another short summer (after Step 1) there wouldn't be enough time to get a publication. I assume that you would have to work with someone during the year.

Good question OP

1) Do a search. This has been asked frequently
2) Google NRMP Charting Outcomes - that will help you get an idea
3) Read the Research FAQ (link in my sig)

Any question that abstract is probably not going to have a useful answer. Also "enough" is not the same as "substantial." Technically, "enough" is zero research, as it's possible to match any specialty without research.

That said, I think that for "competitive" specialties where research is expected, anything that isn't full time (e.g., Ph.D. or research year) or that doesn't result in a publication isn't going to be considered "substantial."

How "much" largely depends on how competitive you are for a competitive specialty. If you have the grades and board scores, you don't NEED any research. If you are marginal, you may need some of those "intangibles" of which, research is one. If you are not competitive, a Nobel prize isn't going to get you a match.

It's very difficult to get any type of meaningful research by doing summer work. You are not going to be able to make much of a contribution to any project that will be worthy of publication with a summer project. If you start over the summer between first and second year and then follow up with an elective, you might have a shot at an abstract but expecting that you are going to have much meaningful research over a summer is unrealistic.

What you can get started on over a summer is experience that will enable you to have a good research experience during residency. Many residents have ongoing research projects ( or author book chapters), during residency but to expect that a summer is going to move you from marginal to competitive in terms of a specialty is a bit unrealistic if you haven't established anything beforehand.

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I guess the question I was trying to ask was...for those who get into top competitive specialties, how much research do they typically do? And when do they do it during their time at med school (i.e. during the summers, ongoing during the school year, both, etc.)?

It's hard to get anything substantial out of a summer but alot of students still participate in research during the summer between MS1 and MS2 nonetheless. Even though it might not be substantial or it might not result in any publications, do residencies really not value those kinds of experiences at all?

Originally Posted by RxnMan

1) Do a search. This has been asked frequently
2) Google NRMP Charting Outcomes - that will help you get an idea
3) Read the Research FAQ (link in my sig)

I just got a chance to read that earlier today and thought it was exceptional. Thanks for putting so much time into that guide.

Originally Posted by njbmd

It's very difficult to get any type of meaningful research by doing summer work. You are not going to be able to make much of a contribution to any project that will be worthy of publication with a summer project. If you start over the summer between first and second year and then follow up with an elective, you might have a shot at an abstract but expecting that you are going to have much meaningful research over a summer is unrealistic.

I highly agree with this. I'm in the middle of a 10 week project that culminates in an abstract and poster (some people get publications, though it seems to be mainly due to the generosity of their PI's). I've spent the last 2 weeks just learning lab techniques and am just now barely getting comfortable with "my" experiment. I can pretty well guarantee that in our current times virtually nothing significant will come out of 10 weeks of research. Still an overall good experience, but I'm not going to cure cancer or anything

For competitive specialities, it's mostly expected that you do research during the summer though, right? Obviously, if it results in a publication, that's great. But even if it doesn't, am I correct to assume that the experience wasn't a total waste when it comes time to applying for residency?

Originally Posted by PremedIowa

I just got a chance to read that earlier today and thought it was exceptional. Thanks for putting so much time into that guide.

Thanks. If you see someone else on SDN who has similar questions, then please refer them to it.

Originally Posted by HiDoc88

For competitive specialities, it's mostly expected that you do research during the summer though, right? Obviously, if it results in a publication, that's great. But even if it doesn't, am I correct to assume that the experience wasn't a total waste when it comes time to applying for residency?

You're looking for a Yes/No, check-the-box type of answer, and it doesn't exist. Reread the above posts and the FAQ. The short answer is that you are not expected to do summer research for any specialty, and summer research will not make or break you. Define "waste" as you will.

Originally Posted by WellWornLad

Any question that abstract is probably not going to have a useful answer. Also "enough" is not the same as "substantial." Technically, "enough" is zero research, as it's possible to match any specialty without research.

That said, I think that for "competitive" specialties where research is expected, anything that isn't full time (e.g., Ph.D. or research year) or that doesn't result in a publication isn't going to be considered "substantial."

Agree with this. Your goal should be a publication or presentation. Abstracts, case reports, etc. are not going to be given nearly as much consideration.

Originally Posted by mikedc813

Agree with this. Your goal should be a publication or presentation. Abstracts, case reports, etc. are not going to be given nearly as much consideration.

Is there much of a difference between presentations and abstracts?
I've always thought peer reviewed publication are where the it's at.