GPA enhancement programs: SMPs, postbacs et al...June 2009 List

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Thank you so much for your reply DrMidlife.

I am pretty far along in prep, I've scored in the low 30's on multiple full length tests. Does this mean I can bust a 30+ on the actual test? We'll just have to wait and see. Speaking to my pre-med adviser, he said the last possible date that I can take the MCAT and still make the Early Decision Deadline (August 1st) is June 21st. Can't I send in my AMCAS app and have my MCAT score sent at a later date?

As far as my GPA is concerned, I know that FSU (and other schools for that matter) accept people with lower GPAs than the average, I'm just nervous and yes I've spent too much time with the "malignant pre-allo gunners."

I have studied the FSU Med page extensively; I even worked there as an undergrad for a year. The rural medicine program that FSU has, the fact that it's an affordable in-state school/my alma mater, and the fact that I wouldn't have to relocate are some of the factors that make FSU an attractive option to me.

I have taken all the "recommended" classes for FSU Med (psych, genetics, etc) and in speaking with some of the faculty, FSU Med loves to accept FSU alums. I wholeheartedly believe in the mission of the school and I just get "the feeling" when I'm at the med school, you know?

The FSU Masters Program is called BRIDGE and I know a few people who have been through it; however, you can't apply for it, it has to be offered to you. The only way for it to be offered to you is to actually apply to the medical school. If you maintain a "B" average you are guaranteed a seat in the NEXT years med school class. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to be offered BRIDGE.

Again, thank you so much for your reply.

Originally Posted by jac09

Speaking to my pre-med adviser, he said the last possible date that I can take the MCAT and still make the Early Decision Deadline (August 1st) is June 21st. Can't I send in my AMCAS app and have my MCAT score sent at a later date?

Your app won't get reviewed until it's complete. Incomplete apps tend to get lost. Last possible date is never the best possible date. If you know for certain that all the apps wait in a pile until August 1 and are then reviewed in random order, then it doesn't matter how early you apply. More likely, they're reviewed first in first out. Part of the advantage of applying early is that the app reviewers aren't worn out and cynical when they get to yours. Meanwhile, if you have a bad day and have to void your MCAT, you're sunk.

If June 21 is what you have to do to get your best score, then just accept it and do it. You might get away with it.

Best of luck to you.

Hey,

Does anyone know of any good post-bac programs, preferably for URM students, that still have their applications open for the summer or fall of 2012? Any at all? (Doesn't have to be URM) And by good I mean have a good/decent reputation of matriculating students into medical school.

If anyone knows anything please let me know ASAP. I had a few plans for post-bac/wait-listed at medical schools, but so far it's not looking too bright. Time for plan B...

Originally Posted by MDdreaming

Hey,

Does anyone know of any good post-bac programs, preferably for URM students, that still have their applications open for the summer or fall of 2012? Any at all? (Doesn't have to be URM) And by good I mean have a good/decent reputation of matriculating students into medical school.

If anyone knows anything please let me know ASAP. I had a few plans for post-bac/wait-listed at medical schools, but so far it's not looking too bright. Time for plan B...

If you have a waitlist letter, then get going on Tulane ACP.

These forums have been really helpful and I've already gotten some great insight on SMPs. Now that I've applied to a few programs, I was hoping to get some advice on which programs might be the right fit for me seeing as my situation is not the norm.

I'm a Canadian student who has previously applied (without luck) with a good GPA and decent MCAT. I'm not looking to do post-bac work to repair my GPA, just to give my application an overall boost and to get my foot in with American schools.

I've applied to BU MAMS (already accepted), Georgetown, Tufts, RFU, and JHU's MHS program. I guess I'm wondering whether I should pursue a high-linkage SMP (RFU), a reputable SMP (BU, Georgetown, Tufts), or a "category 2" grad program (JHU MHS). I'm also wondering how much value the category 2 program might have on getting into med school. Thanks in advance!

This is easily one of the most valuable contributions to SDN. Thanks Op!

Anyone know of any programs for below 3.0 bcpm?

Can anyone give me some insight because i'm stuck on what i should do! I'm about to graduate with about a 3.3-3.4 overall GPA. my science is probably the same or a little lower, but definitely above a 3.0. I'm taking my MCAT in july and i know that i'm not even competitive for MD with this GPA. i've come across so many programs such as SMP, certificate programs, Post bacc programs, and extension programs such as the ones at Harvard and UC berkeley.

Does anyone know what the difference is between most of these? I know that with certificate you're not getting the degree compared to SMP, but i just don't want to spend money on a program that won't help my chances of getting into med school!

I was looking at American University, UPenn, UC Berkeley, Harvard, and Wayne State for their Post bacc/certificate/SMP programs and just need some input and where to go from here. Any help or feedback would be greatly appreciated!

After sitting out a year I have been accepted to the FSU bridge program and the USF IMS program. I know that FSU has guaranteed matriculation after you complete the bridge program while USF does not. It's just that I have a girlfriend at USF and would like to be where she is....not to mention USF is the better medical school to attend. Would it be the biggest mistake of my life to go to USF because I may not matriculate as an M1? Some background info: I have been told that USF med has seen some administrative changes which have resulted in an increased preference for students with high GPA and MCAT stats. Let's face it, I only have a 3.4 GPA and a 22 MCAT. I graduated from FSU with a bachelor's in biology, played football under coach Bowden and have tons of shadowing experience mixed with community service. Originally I am from Bradenton which is only 45 minutes from Tampa. My biggest fear is to finish the USF ims program and be denied entrance to the medical school the following year. My common sense tells me to take the sure thing and go to FSU. What would you do? Please dont be afraid to be blunt.

Originally Posted by Ichbinartz

After sitting out a year I have been accepted to the FSU bridge program and the USF IMS program. I know that FSU has guaranteed matriculation after you complete the bridge program while USF does not. It's just that I have a girlfriend at USF and would like to be where she is....not to mention USF is the better medical school to attend. Would it be the biggest mistake of my life to go to USF because I may not matriculate as an M1? Some background info: I have been told that USF med has seen some administrative changes which have resulted in an increased preference for students with high GPA and MCAT stats. Let's face it, I only have a 3.4 GPA and a 22 MCAT. I graduated from FSU with a bachelor's in biology, played football under coach Bowden and have tons of shadowing experience mixed with community service. Originally I am from Bradenton which is only 45 minutes from Tampa. My biggest fear is to finish the USF ims program and be denied entrance to the medical school the following year. My common sense tells me to take the sure thing and go to FSU. What would you do? Please dont be afraid to be blunt.

You're risking either your relationship w/ your girlfriend (long distance) or your chances of getting into medical school (USF probably is a lot more difficult to get into after the SMP).

I think if you had a MCAT above 30 and went to USF, then your chances would be somewhat decent. If FSU has guaranteed matriculation upon completion, then I'd say go for that.

No one can make the decision for you. Personally, I think if the relationship is strong enough then you could possibly be okay since it's still in the same state.

Can I please get MULTIPLE opinions as to what category(ies) of SMP I should do? Here are my stats:
Nationality: Canadian
Overall GPA: 3.275 (science GPA is a bit lower)
Year of study: will start 4th year undergrad this fall (plant on getting my GPA up to 3.3)
Program: biomedical sciences (have/will have completed all pre-reqs by the time I apply)
ECs: good/standard pre-med ECs (have 2 solid research experiences as well)
MCAT: taking it in august (hopefully 30+)

Thanks a lot!

Originally Posted by 20090900

Can I please get MULTIPLE opinions as to what category(ies) of SMP I should do? Here are my stats:
Nationality: Canadian
Overall GPA: 3.275 (science GPA is a bit lower)
Year of study: will start 4th year undergrad this fall (plant on getting my GPA up to 3.3)
Program: biomedical sciences (have/will have completed all pre-reqs by the time I apply)
ECs: good/standard pre-med ECs (have 2 solid research experiences as well)
MCAT: taking it in august (hopefully 30+)

Thanks a lot!

Your previous thread raised the existence of a Canadian version of SDN: premed101.com.

You're the only known low GPA pre-dental Canadian in this forum, so multiple anything isn't going to happen. We have no idea if US-based SMPs are useful to low-GPA Canadians under any circumstances - that topic on SDN has been 100% questions, 0% answers as long as I've been around.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks for your response Dr.Midlife,

I am actually pre-dental and pre-med (still deciding). I personally know Canadian individuals that have taken SMPs in the states which helped them get into American dental schools. This is for Dental school but I'm assuming doing the same for Med school wouldn't be too different. Pretending I was an American (with my current sats), what group(s) of SMPs would you recommend? I know this is assuming/disregarding a lot of variables but I am just trying to get a general feel/idea as to what I should be doing/looking for. Thank-you for your patience.

This is for Dental school but I'm assuming doing the same for Med school wouldn't be too different.

The vast majority of US (allopathic) med schools do not accept internationals. Period.

Should I stay at my school or apply to a formal program?

I only have left: Orgo 2, Physics 1+2, and I need to re-take Gen Chem II (received a C-)

I think I have a ~3.1 sGPA, and have approximately a semester left to graduate.

I was thinking maybe finish all those up in my current school and take upper div classes. But I'm thinking about moving & just wondering if one can apply to a formal program with such a scenario.

Hello everyone,
I am a recent college grad majoring in Biological sciences, It has always been my dream to pursue a career in medicine but my resulting overall uGPA(2.9) and uSCGPA(2.7) does not reflect that desire in any form. I am aware that this GPA will haunt me for a lifetime but my desire still remains. Not too long ago I stumbled upon this forum and read some stories that were simply amazing as well as inspirational. So now I am posting to see if anyone has any ideas of how I can make my goal a reality, any paths I could take or ideas that I should consider. All comments are welcome

.

Originally Posted by dj0607

Wow thank you so much for such an informative post! I'm still debating on whether I should retake the MCATs

With a 20, you're dead in the water. You have to retake.

Also: there's one MCAT. There are no MCATs.

Originally Posted by dj0607

or not to be a better SMP candidate. I currently have a 3.3 from my undergrad at UCSC.

Go banana slugs!

Originally Posted by dj0607

I graduated 2 years ago and have been working as a research assistant, trying really hard to get a publication out from the lab I work at. I also work very closely with physicians that can potentially write me a good LOR. I took the MCATs last year and got a 20 (my workload is currently insane - at least 50-80 hours a week.. my PI is nuts!) so I wasn't able to study that well. I did take the GREs but got an 80th percentile in math but 48th percentile in verbal (english is not my native language and have moved to the US only about 7 years ago).

No blaming your PI and your workload when your actual problem is English. You're just going to have to make the MCAT your full time job and your first priority. You have to break 8 on each section to be taken seriously, and you have to break 31+ to have an above average MCAT. And yes, you need an above average MCAT to go with your sub-competitive GPA. Or you can look at DO schools.

Do you have US permanent residency? If not, then getting your green card is problem #1, and your MCAT is problem #2.

Originally Posted by dj0607

I've had about 4 years of research experience (2 from undergrad, 2 from current job) and I am currently managing one of the tissue banks at UCSF.

Awesome. If med school is your #1 goal, then you are above the bar for research. You can drop it in order to improve your MCAT and GPA.

Originally Posted by dj0607

I'm wondering which SMP will consider my 20 on the MCATs?

None of them will. Why? Because a good SMP isn't going to take a student that can't get into med school.

You should not do an SMP until you're ready for med school. And you're not ready for med school until you can conquer the MCAT.

In med school and thereafter, you have to take board exams. The verbal reasoning on board exams is considerably more difficult than on the MCAT. This is true whether you go MD or DO or Carib. If you want to go to med school from a 3.3, you have to beat the MCAT.

Originally Posted by dj0607

I will be starting CSU east bay's academic enhancer track program in the winter but fear that it won't look as good as an SMP program.

In California that might be a tie (CSUEB vs. Loyola/Gtown/etc). The CSUEB program is more effective for MCAT prep. Doing MCAT prep during an SMP makes no sense - MCAT prep costs $1500, an SMP costs $50k. You have to be really ready before you take on an SMP courseload.

I assume people will hate on me for being harsh. I don't care. I don't do content-free encouragement. The above is the stuff you need to know if you want to go to med school.

Best of luck to you.

I did take the GREs but got an 80th percentile in math but 48th percentile in verbal (english is not my native language and have moved to the US only about 7 years ago).

Consider taking intensive English/writing classes at your local juco or Cal State. Or, find a high school English teacher who will tutor you. Then move onto philosophy classes....

Thank you DrMidlife and everyone else who has contributed to this thread! There is some very useful information here - but I was hoping that someone could please give me their input on what is best for my current situation.

I just finished my UG this past June with a BS Bio:
GPA: 3.0 sGPA also 3.0
MCAT: 29
GRE math: 96th percentile and verbal 84th percentile
ECs: ~120 hrs shadowing a physician
-1 year of research; currently working on a publication
-200 hours of hospital volunteer from highschool (I don't think it counts for much)

I will be starting another research position at a lab next week and will be looking to sign up for some volunteer hours at a local hospital.

I need to fix both my GPA and MCAT score if I want a shot at medical schools. I know my chances at a "real" SMP are slim so I was planning on doing a "fake" SMP/other postbacc as a sort of bridge to get into a "real" SMP. Would this be the best route for me?

I would appreciate any input you might have. Thanks!

The compiled list has helped me tremendously in deciding which SMPs I want to apply to. I don't expect guaranteed RESULTS but I expect close to guaranteed TERMS and conditions (within reason). Specifically, if the program accepts me, it should be understood that my GPA is weak but in other areas the program finds me qualified. Then, if I do "well" in the SMP e.g. 3.5+ SMP GPA, yes, I should expect to be accepted. I don't call this a sense of entitlement, I call it sanity. If I fork up 50K, work hard and do well, don't have glaring problems, then I don't want the SMP to become fickle with me. For this reason, I am interested in EVMS, Temple, and Lake Erie Post Bacc. That's it. Forget the other programs. The problem with U Cincy is that students say the linkage is good but expect to get a 3.0. This may cut it for Cincy but looks like a mediocre grad GPA for other places. I don't want to count on Cincy alone.

Originally Posted by common man

I expect close to guaranteed TERMS and conditions (within reason).

EVMS offers no guarantee of any kind. From EVMS and the other SMPs, I challenge you to find anything in writing that describes the circumstances under which you get a host med school acceptance.

There are no guarantees, period, and these programs don't talk about "terms". What do they say on stock trader commercials? Past performance is no guarantee of future return?

I suggest that a good strategy would be to accept that the $50k investment you make in an SMP may need 2 years (or more) to pay out. I suggest that targeting the host schools for SMPs may be less advantageous than targeting your home state's public school after (or while) completing your SMP. I suggest that if you're from California, you'll want to find current SMP students and track who gets into UCs, carefully, without putting too much stock in general SMP advice.

If you have the minimum 3.3 (3.4?) required for Temple, you are in pretty good shape to use an SMP to get in back home. In which case, yes, you should be looking at Cincy/Gtown/Tufts/Boston and even Drexel. Tulane's new anatomy masters might be a great deal. (And if you're in 3.3/3.4 range, then a 32+ on the MCAT is as important as killing your SMP.)

EVMS class size is at 40, up from 23 in the 2010 class that had a 91% success rate. The '11 class only had one or two students with non-EVMS acceptances, which was a big change from prior years. We simply don't know what the EVMS '12 results will be, or whether the '12 results will translate into '13 results. Meanwhile, EVMS med school, for out of staters, currently has a 4 year cost of attendance of $320k. Am I telling you this to bash my school? No, I like my school and I'm glad I'm here, and our med masters program is really, really good at getting people into med school. I'm telling you about the risks and downside so that you'll look at the "problem" in as many dimensions as possible, including the inestimable impact of state budget cuts.

Best of luck to you.

thank you dr. midlife. i will call up the dean of admissions at evms and lake erie. they will avoid "guarantees" but i want to hear their thoughts. temple requires you to get a 3.5 gpa. i'm a philadelphia resident so hopefully temple will show me some love. you're definitely right about the no guarantee for evms. in the evms thread, i read a post about someone who asked dr. meyer directly and learned that 5 out of the 28 for sure did not get into the evms host school. i would like to think that happened because those 5 had underperformed in the smp (smp does not buy guaranteed results - i'm fine with that).

i'm just hoping, that given how tough these programs are to get into (20 - 40 out of 500+ applicants where it is not uncommon to find people with high gpas applying e.g. 3.9), the programs takes you because the only weakness is the GPA which you now have a chance to address. however, given that evms is expanding to 40 students this year, it may end up like georgetown where a lot of students do not get accepted by the host school. in this scenario, the past does not predict the future. i'll have to see how much weight evms medical masters or lake erie post bacc would have for schools like drexel, jefferson, temple, and pcom during the regular admissions cycle. my plan is to apply this june and start the smp at the same time. if it does not work the first time, i'll immediately reapply with complete smp grades.

the drexel program here in philly does not interest me because of the poor linkage, no master's after 1 year, and for year 1 you can't take graduate stafford loans for the entire tuition. it just doesn't provide bang for the buck. i want the master's degree because if i have to wait a year or two before getting in, the MS may help with getting a job.

it's very kind of you to take time out of your busy schedule to help out. thanks again!

You're giving career advice now? Arent you the same person who said you could be arrested / extradited if you skipped out on paying student loans? i would take your advice with a tablespoon of salt. sorry to butt in. now carry on.

Graduate student at large a good idea for someone who has a bachelors and wants to improve their gpa? Grad student at large allows me to take undergrad and grad courses. I am going to illinois state and here is their info: http://grad.illinoisstate.edu/studen.../index.shtml#1

Hello -

I currently have a 3.4 GPA in a Law undergrad at a canadian university (I'm graduating in December and will probably have a 3.5 GPA by that time). I recently decided that would like to apply to med school - I already have my science prerequisites from a 2 year Health Science program that I completed prior to my Bachelors degree (Diploma of Collegial Studies), where I graduated with an overall average of 84% and an average of 84% for the science classes...I don't know what this translates to in terms of GPA.

I haven't taken the MCATs yet so I'm planning on taking them in April. However, I'm going to have a gap year because I can only apply to medical school for the term starting in September 2014 - I was wondering if a SMP or Postbaccalaureate would be beneficial in my situation?

Also, if I do well on the MCAT, are my chances of getting into med school good? Would they consider the fact that I come from a Law background and therefore be more lenient with my average GPA? I just really screwed up my first year by getting a 2.7 but then I haven't gotten lower than a 3.8 ever since - its just impossible to come back from that terrible first year.

I am sooo confused with the whole process of applying to american medical schools so any information would be greatly appreciated!!

Thank you

is a post-bacc along the same path of just getting a masters at the same time?

Originally Posted by Mi Chiamo Tiff

is a post-bacc along the same path of just getting a masters at the same time?

No

I graduated with an overall average of 84% and an average of 84% for the science classes...I don't know what this translates to in terms of GPA.

You can find the gpa conversions on the attached link. The Canadian conversions are on the last page. But bear in mind that most US med schools do not accept internationals.

https://www.aamc.org/students/downlo...sion_guide.pdf

Hey guys, about to graduate in may and considering my next steps.

I currently have an overall GPA of 3.358 and a sGPA of 2.98. After this semester the overall GPA will be up and perhaps the sGPA one too.....depends on my genetics final!
Also do biopsych courses count as a science course that you can include in your sGPA?

Anyways, I took the MCAT in September and got a 27P. Not great. However, I made the mistake of studying while I had a full time job and two part time jobs.

I know I want to look into SMPs but I am getting caught up on the financially disadvantaged part of them-- which are not catered only to financially disadvantaged?
It stinks because after graduation I am completely on my own and will be cut off by my parents, except for medical insurance. Which because they are providing that, I will still be considered dependent on them and their income is above disadvantaged status, despite me not getting any of it and making minimum wage at a part-time job. Sorry, that was a long winded rant, but my main question is-- with these stats and with the lack of disadvantaged status, where can I apply?

Originally Posted by hopefuluncdoc

Hey guys, about to graduate in may and considering my next steps.

I currently have an overall GPA of 3.358 and a sGPA of 2.98. After this semester the overall GPA will be up and perhaps the sGPA one too.....depends on my genetics final!
Also do biopsych courses count as a science course that you can include in your sGPA?

Anyways, I took the MCAT in September and got a 27P. Not great. However, I made the mistake of studying while I had a full time job and two part time jobs.

I know I want to look into SMPs but I am getting caught up on the financially disadvantaged part of them-- which are not catered only to financially disadvantaged?
It stinks because after graduation I am completely on my own and will be cut off by my parents, except for medical insurance. Which because they are providing that, I will still be considered dependent on them and their income is above disadvantaged status, despite me not getting any of it and making minimum wage at a part-time job. Sorry, that was a long winded rant, but my main question is-- with these stats and with the lack of disadvantaged status, where can I apply?

Very few are truly aimed at disadvantaged - look harder.

Would a SMP or Postbacc help me or hurt me?

My numbers:

cGPA: 3.44
sGPA: 3.42

MCAT 31R (10PS 10V 11B)

6 years of research in including almost 2 years after graduating from college.
Volunteered at a pediatric unit for about 70 hours.
Volunteered at an international hospital for an entire summer (full-time~300 hours)
Shadowed Internist (~40 hours)


I submitted my AMCAS late (early September) but I applied to over 30 schools. Finished all of my secondaries by the end of November. So far I haven't gotten any interviews. Should I consider enrolling in a SMP or Postbacc to enhance my application? Or should I just apply earlier and broader? Or should I do both? How well do I need to do in a SMP or Postbacc to stand out to adcoms? I'll appreciate any constructive feedback. Thanks!

Originally Posted by MedGroupie

Would a SMP or Postbacc help me or hurt me?

My numbers:

cGPA: 3.44
sGPA: 3.42

MCAT 31R (10PS 10V 11B)

6 years of research in including almost 2 years after graduating from college.
Volunteered at a pediatric unit for about 70 hours.
Volunteered at an international hospital for an entire summer (full-time~300 hours)
Shadowed Internist (~40 hours)


I submitted my AMCAS late (early September) but I applied to over 30 schools. Finished all of my secondaries by the end of November. So far I haven't gotten any interviews. Should I consider enrolling in a SMP or Postbacc to enhance my application? Or should I just apply earlier and broader? Or should I do both? How well do I need to do in a SMP or Postbacc to stand out to adcoms? I'll appreciate any constructive feedback. Thanks!

Bolded is your first problem - about 50% my class is full by thanksgiving (and we aren't unusual about it), so secondaries in by then was a waste of $$$.

I was in a very similar GPA boat to you and chose to do the UPenn SSP program to take 1 year of classes to add to my undergrad GPA. I feel an SMP is too expensive in this situation, and I felt with a solid year of As i'd be in the better boat of being north of 3.5.

I also liked having the SMP as another option if the post-bac didn't help my chances.

So I say do a year of post-bac classes and re-apply. And your apps done in a more appropriate time-frame

Originally Posted by robflanker

Bolded is your first problem - about 50% my class is full by thanksgiving (and we aren't unusual about it), so secondaries in by then was a waste of $$$.

I was in a very similar GPA boat to you and chose to do the UPenn SSP program to take 1 year of classes to add to my undergrad GPA. I feel an SMP is too expensive in this situation, and I felt with a solid year of As i'd be in the better boat of being north of 3.5.

I also liked having the SMP as another option if the post-bac didn't help my chances.

So I say do a year of post-bac classes and re-apply. And your apps done in a more appropriate time-frame

Thanks for the advice and I apologize for cross posting. I've been scrutinizing every aspect of my application. I'll take your input under consideration.

Originally Posted by robflanker

Bolded is your first problem - about 50% my class is full by thanksgiving (and we aren't unusual about it), so secondaries in by then was a waste of $$$.

I was in a very similar GPA boat to you and chose to do the UPenn SSP program to take 1 year of classes to add to my undergrad GPA. I feel an SMP is too expensive in this situation, and I felt with a solid year of As i'd be in the better boat of being north of 3.5.

I also liked having the SMP as another option if the post-bac didn't help my chances.

So I say do a year of post-bac classes and re-apply. And your apps done in a more appropriate time-frame

If you don't mind me asking, how successful were you after completing said program? I.E. How many med schools did you apply to? How many interviews and acceptances did you get? This will help me think through this process. Thanks!

Originally Posted by MedGroupie

If you don't mind me asking, how successful were you after completing said program? I.E. How many med schools did you apply to? How many interviews and acceptances did you get? This will help me think through this process. Thanks!

I did well. Multiple acceptances

Originally Posted by robflanker

I did well. Multiple acceptances

I rather not wait another 2 years before matriculating to medical school. Can I submit my AMCAS on the first day and then do the postbacc program during the application year? Or should I complete the postbacc program before applying?

Originally Posted by MedGroupie

I rather not wait another 2 years before matriculating to medical school. Can I submit my AMCAS on the first day and then do the postbacc program during the application year? Or should I complete the postbacc program before applying?

I chose to take the gap year and get a job to further improve my resume. I also spent the year taking classes improving my ECs. I wanted to ensure I (re-)applied with my best foot forward and so I improved every area of my app (MCAT, GPA, ECs) between cycles.

If you think your app is good then apply without the post bac grades. But be objective - based on what you said so far, you have a below average GPA (which wont get to avg), an average MCAT, and average ECs. Doesn't really fill one with enthusiasm when reading applications? We literally thousands just like you - you need to find a way to stand out.

Personally, I would take the gap year

Originally Posted by robflanker

I chose to take the gap year and get a job to further improve my resume. I also spent the year taking classes improving my ECs. I wanted to ensure I (re-)applied with my best foot forward and so I improved every area of my app (MCAT, GPA, ECs) between cycles.

If you think your app is good then apply without the post bac grades. But be objective - based on what you said so far, you have a below average GPA (which wont get to avg), an average MCAT, and average ECs. Doesn't really fill one with enthusiasm when reading applications? We literally thousands just like you - you need to find a way to stand out.

Personally, I would take the gap year

I understand. However Georgetown's SMP: http://smp.georgetown.edu/132254.html recommends applying before starting classes so that you may matriculate right after you finish the program. I already have a full time research position, I've had it for nearly 2 years. Our lab will likely have a publication coming out in the following year. On the other hand, I take your point, one should re-apply only when their application is the strongest. And I would hate to go through a 3rd application cycle. I'll assume that applying early (without changing anything else in my application) won't necessarily result in getting interviews. I also have to keep in mind that my MCAT score will expire in 3 years and I took in July 2012, so I have 2 years left. As you can see I am between a rock and a hard place.This sucks!

Originally Posted by MedGroupie

I understand. However Georgetown's SMP: http://smp.georgetown.edu/132254.html recommends applying before starting classes so that you may matriculate right after you finish the program.

A lot of people don't do that tho - i would guess that most people take a glide year.

Originally Posted by robflanker

A lot of people don't do that tho - i would guess that most people take a glide year.

Thanks robflanker. I was leaning towards an SMP but after taking your advice under consideration I am seriously leaning towards taking a few classes and reapplying in June 2014. I am working full time right now at a research university that offers upper level science courses to employees for almost nothing. I am thinking I should take advantage of that, rather than going into more debt. Considering that I have a full time job, how many classes should I take to boost my GPA in one year? I am thinking 2 classes each semester (fall and spring) would be a safe workload. Although I really ought to take 3 classes each semester to get more As but I might not be able to manage the workload. What do you think?

Originally Posted by MedGroupie

Thanks robflanker. I was leaning towards an SMP but after taking your advice under consideration I am seriously leaning towards taking a few classes and reapplying in June 2014. I am working full time right now at a research university that offers upper level science courses to employees for almost nothing. I am thinking I should take advantage of that, rather than going into more debt. Considering that I have a full time job, how many classes should I take to boost my GPA in one year? I am thinking 2 classes each semester (fall and spring) would be a safe workload. Although I really ought to take 3 classes each semester to get more As but I might not be able to manage the workload. What do you think?

You'll want to think about what a GPA is. You have a large pile of grades from 4 years of undergrad, and throwing a few more classes on that pile isn't going to move it to a more satisfying number.

The point of taking a few more classes and doing well in them is not to "fix" a GPA, but to add strength to your story and show commitment. A few more classes shows less strength and commitment than a full time year of all science, but your stats are such that a full time year is likely overkill.

This isn't a restaurant and you can't order med school on a menu. There are no guarantees, ever, that you'll get accepted. If you can't stomach that uncertainty, then there are infinite other paths to take.

Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

You'll want to think about what a GPA is. You have a large pile of grades from 4 years of undergrad, and throwing a few more classes on that pile isn't going to move it to a more satisfying number.

The point of taking a few more classes and doing well in them is not to "fix" a GPA, but to add strength to your story and show commitment. A few more classes shows less strength and commitment than a full time year of all science, but your stats are such that a full time year is likely overkill.

This isn't a restaurant and you can't order med school on a menu. There are no guarantees, ever, that you'll get accepted. If you can't stomach that uncertainty, then there are infinite other paths to take.

Best of luck to you.

So what do you recommend?

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

You'll want to think about what a GPA is. You have a large pile of grades from 4 years of undergrad, and throwing a few more classes on that pile isn't going to move it to a more satisfying number.

The point of taking a few more classes and doing well in them is not to "fix" a GPA, but to add strength to your story and show commitment. A few more classes shows less strength and commitment than a full time year of all science, but your stats are such that a full time year is likely overkill.

This isn't a restaurant and you can't order med school on a menu. There are no guarantees, ever, that you'll get accepted. If you can't stomach that uncertainty, then there are infinite other paths to take.

Best of luck to you.

I take issue with your question about my commitment. If I wasn't committed, I wouldn't go through the rigmarole of strengthening my application. The weakness is obvious and I must make an effort to improve it. All I can hope is that my efforts aren't fruitless and adcoms are receptive to them. Obviously there is no guarantee but I am no flake either. I believe the other aspects of my application are quite strong. I've listed some of my ECs above. On the other hand, medicine is all I want to do and I've witnessed people with weaker stats get into medical school. Of course there are many variables in the application process, but I strongly believe that one must make every effort to reach their aspirations. And that's all I am doing.

Originally Posted by MedGroupie

I take issue with your question about my commitment. If I wasn't committed, I wouldn't go through the rigmarole of strengthening my application. The weakness is obvious and I must make an effort to improve it. All I can hope is that my efforts aren't fruitless and adcoms are receptive to them. Obviously there is no guarantee but I am no flake either. I believe the other aspects of my application are quite strong. I've listed some of my ECs above. On the other hand, medicine is all I want to do and I've witnessed people with weaker stats get into medical school. Of course there are many variables in the application process, but I strongly believe that one must make every effort to reach their aspirations. And that's all I am doing.

I don't care if you're committed or a flake. I'm stating likelihoods for common choices. This thread has a half million viewers looking for GPA redemption options.

Originally Posted by DrMidlife

I don't care if you're committed or a flake. I'm stating likelihoods for common choices. This thread has a half million viewers looking for GPA redemption options.

Well, I am just asking about myself. If you have any recommendations/advice for somebody like me, then please share it. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then why say it. So far you haven't said anything that I didn't know before. What you've said so far is akin to being taught your ABCs in 12th grade. It's unnecessary but more disturbingly it's discouraging. I hope you can be more compassionate when you give advice to others in the future.

Good luck to you!

Originally Posted by MedGroupie

Well, I am just asking about myself.

You show many symptoms of I Expect Somebody Else To Figure It Out For Me syndrome. Which is probably why you applied late and didn't get in. Take charge of your story. There are thousands and thousands of hours invested in this forum by those who have gone before you and shared their experiences. Take advantage and read. You are not unique.

27 male
B.S. in Natural Science
cGPA: 2.7 (per AACOMAS with retakes); 2.45 without retakes
sGPA: 3.0 (per AACOMAS with retakes); 2.65 without retakes
MCAT: May 11 2013
Non-science research internship
Numerous leadership roles
Volunteer experience
8+ years of full-time work as Paramedic
2 years in Level II Trauma Center
Trauma Education Liaison
Numerous committees in ED
Established ESI Triage in ED
Teaching experience in paramedic programs
Paramedic preceptor
Strong LOR

I am looking for a SMP/post-bacc for low GPA students. I did poorly for about two years but have a decent upward trend the past three to four semesters. I plan on applying DO only due to grade replacement and a checkered academic past.

Any recommendations for a SMP/post-bacc that may take a chance on me?

Originally Posted by dxu

cGPA: 2.7 (per AACOMAS with retakes); 2.45 without retakes
sGPA: 3.0 (per AACOMAS with retakes); 2.65 without retakes
MCAT: May 11 2013

Any recommendations for a SMP/post-bacc that may take a chance on me?

Not without a rockstar MCAT - your cGPA is a long way off.

And dont bother applying DO anytime soon; not sure if you were or not; but don't

You need a year (at least) of undergrad classes at high GPA to get your cGPA up, and push your sGPA up as well. Both are miles from remotely being competitive. Plus, with those grades - how are you sure you are ready for the MCAT. A B- average doesn't often lead to a 35 on the MCAT. It occasionally happens - but most of the time it does not

And then you'll need an SMP. You are at best 3.5 years away from entering medical school.

Originally Posted by robflanker

Not without a rockstar MCAT - your cGPA is a long way off.

And dont bother applying DO anytime soon; not sure if you were or not; but don't

You need a year (at least) of undergrad classes at high GPA to get your cGPA up, and push your sGPA up as well. Both are miles from remotely being competitive. Plus, with those grades - how are you sure you are ready for the MCAT. A B- average doesn't often lead to a 35 on the MCAT. It occasionally happens - but most of the time it does not

And then you'll need an SMP. You are at best 3.5 years away from entering medical school.

Thank you for the feedback. Like I mentioned, most of the problem grades rest in the middle of my academic career. My actions were the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Finally got myself squared away and am in the process of cleaning up some of my mistakes. I am willing to do the work.