Failed out of DO program, trying to get back in

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Originally Posted by TexasPhysician

I think TCOM is a great school. There are a few downsides to it though. My critiques may not even be still valid since it was from 4 years ago. Just look into these things for yourself.

1. I didn't like how you had to use their computers because all of your "books" were on them. I like to highlight, underline, and have a real book. This computer thing was not good with my learning style.
2. Their main hospital was in limbo when I applied. Just check to see where their students do clinical rotations. They could well be amazing by now.
3. Their summers were on the short side. I wasn't so concerned because I needed breaks, but because I wanted to do research, volunteer, etc. To compare, my school gives 8 weeks off between MSI-MSII. TCOM only gave 2 weeks. Not near enough time for a good research project.

Again. Please check my critiques, because they may no longer be valid. Overall, I still think it is a great school. I know a number of peers that have graduated there and are great doctors.

1. That must have been a temp thing were trying out-we have ppts and books that you actually read out of are rare the first year. Second year it's all about Robbins.
2. That hospital is now our new building, lol. But rotations are around FW in the major hospitals, and options to do a year or two in Corpus Cristi or Baytown. Pretty solid from what I hear the 3rd and 4th years say.
3. Ah yes, the only qualm I have with TCOM. We have 3 weeks this summer. We are in the midst of an uproar. But I think they will be changing that next year for all the first years.

I hadn't checked this in a while and was surprised that it's still active. Just an update on my end, I have an in-person meeting with Navy recruiters today . . . trying to get the Air Force to look at me too but it seems like they may have an overabundance of applicants.

Originally Posted by Bones DO

I hadn't checked this in a while and was surprised that it's still active. Just an update on my end, I have an in-person meeting with Navy recruiters today . . . trying to get the Air Force to look at me too but it seems like they may have an overabundance of applicants.

YEA!!!!!!. Let us know how it goes.

Good luck with the military. Was the number I gave you helpful? I am biased obviously, but the Army is number one...you need to give us a try. LOL

Originally Posted by Bones DO

I hadn't checked this in a while and was surprised that it's still active. Just an update on my end, I have an in-person meeting with Navy recruiters today . . . trying to get the Air Force to look at me too but it seems like they may have an overabundance of applicants.

Originally Posted by Bones DO

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry in advance for this being so long but here goes...

I am one of those unfortunate people who managed to fail out of medical school and I am curious as to what people think of my situation/plan of action to be reaccepted.

I had decent stats applying (3.6 GPA (3.4 sci), 26-R MCATs and 3 summers of research internships, held a part time job at a hospital lots of shadowing etc) and was accepted into what I consider to be a prestigious D.O. program (it shall be nameless for this post) early in 2008 and everything seemed to be falling into place. Fast forward to the end of the intro system. I had not taken anatomy and physiology during undergrad and found it extremely difficult. Further, I was very disturbed (quite unexpectedly) by working with cadavers. Passing is of course 70 and due to my dismal anatomy average of 47 I failed the intro course with a 62. At the school I was at you could remediate one system but the second one in a year is damning. The second system i finished with a soul-crushing 69, again due to the darn anatomy grades. I repealed my dismissal on the grounds that it was clearly anatomy that was killing my averages and that I could take steps in the interm year to work on my easily identifiable weakness and start over the following year.

In my appeal I had outlined several things that I was going to do to eliminate my weakness, along with taking full responsibility for everything that had happened as my own fault for not being prepared enough, and not acclimating myself to dissection before the first day of gross lab.

1. take undergrad A+P 1+2 w/labs
2. continue to expose myself to dissection labs whether by attending autopsies or being allowed to continue studying in the schools gross lab
3. essentially do little else but study anatomy until August 2009

The appeal board didn't buy it (or any of the other stories the 6 others that were dismissed after the first 2 systems had). I was quite depressed by this, I feel like the appeal process at the school I was at was nothing more than a formality but that's another matter.

So I proceeded to write letters to literally all the other COM's admissions offices asking what they thought of my situation and whether or not I could be considered. Roughly half the COM's have a policy in stone that they do not accept previously dismissed D.O. students. I wrote letters to the deans of those schools with one positive outcome: special permission to apply to LECOM's campuses, but not until 2009-2010 cycle. 80% of the other half wanted me to wait another year before applying, and a few would consider my 2009 application. So I applied to the few schools that would review my application immediately after my dismissal and was waitlisted at 2/3 of them based on how late I applied (I was in the last interview group due to a lag in getting another DO letter...) and they wanted to see how I did on my AnP coursework.

That brings us to today. I have been working in public health research for the passed 4.5 months and have gotten A's in both the AnP lectures and Labs. In order to stay sharp, I am the TA for the professor I had last spring and summer I for AnP 1 and 2 and assist with (not just observe) autopsies at a hospital on about a monthly basis. I also retook the MCAT last Saturday to try to show continued determination and I bought this great Anatomy lab program for the computer called Anatomy and Physiology Revealed 2.0. (Not to give them a plug or anything but it's a great cadaver dissection simulation and a wonderful way to study…way better than any atlas) and I have applications in at 10 D.O. schools pending verification (submitted 8/13/09, would have submitted earlier but I was waiting for my AnP II Grade). My premed committee at my undergrad institution has written me a new recommendation and I have a couple new recs on file from people I work for both MD and DO. I have also applied to SGU and Ross just in case, but I would still rather be a DO.

So my questions are:

1. What do you think of this plan of action (most of which is complete at this point)? Is there anything you think I should be doing that I'm not doing?

2. Do you think I'm insane for trying? I have read only 2 accounts of this sort of thing on SDN but I'm sure there are more. Most of us that get dismissed are just embarrassed to talk about it I think...especially since from my school alone after the first 3 months there were already 7 people dismissed due to academic problems alone.

Go nuts, I can take it. At this point I can take anything.

Never give up and if you really want it --- get rid of the computer, distractions, etc. and focus this time 200% in medical school.

Where this is a will there is a way --- never give up!

Originally Posted by study4eva

Never give up and if you really want it --- get rid of the computer, distractions, etc. and focus this time 200% in medical school.

Where this is a will there is a way --- never give up!

I'm pretty sure the OP got into RVUCOM and will be matriculating in the fall.

Since I said I'd let everyone know how I am progressing, I figured I'd post a quick note to let you all know that I passed my first round of exams by a respectable margin. I have over an 80% average in the system so far, which is comfortably above average for my class at the moment. I want anyone who is reading this that may be in a similar situation as I was, that there is ALWAYS hope!

*whew*. Saw your name on the "last post" and got a little nervous for you.

Glad to hear things are going well so far. Keep it up. It gets harder, but the step up to harder is not quite as big as from UG -> MS1 (although MS4 -> intern is close).

Originally Posted by Bones DO

Since I said I'd let everyone know how I am progressing, I figured I'd post a quick note to let you all know that I passed my first round of exams by a respectable margin. I have over an 80% average in the system so far, which is comfortably above average for my class at the moment. I want anyone who is reading this that may be in a similar situation as I was, that there is ALWAYS hope!

Yea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats I hope your willingness to be open about the situation will perhaps inspire more to be open minded.

Glad to hear you're doing well.

keep it up!! and stay off SDN and facebook during the school year. Too distracting.

Originally Posted by EMT2ER-DOC

keep it up!! and stay off SDN and facebook during the school year. Too distracting.

agreed, internet is your downfall. avoid it at all costs. it is so easy to sit and read junk on facebook, get into instant message chatting etc.

only time you use internet is to gather information. forget all the other stuff and just use your time for REAL LIFE experiences.

Originally Posted by PharmaTope

agreed, internet is your downfall. avoid it at all costs. it is so easy to sit and read junk on facebook, get into instant message chatting etc.

only time you use internet is to gather information. forget all the other stuff and just use your time for REAL LIFE experiences.

Excellent advice. I only check this for a half hour a week. I had an engineer friend of mine physically disable sites like facebook, sdn, craigslist, ebay, etc on my school laptop! I have no idea how he did it, but it works and keeps me from getting sucked into the online silliness.

System final on Wed wish me luck!

I'm proud of you Bones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: Ask you friend how to do the disabling.

Originally Posted by PunkmedGirl

I'm proud of you Bones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: Ask you friend how to do the disabling.

why do you need to have an IT disable them for u...just go into the computer and uninstall the programs..not that hard...and frankly...the best thing is to turn the computer OFF during class time and do paper notes...
and the old fashioned way of being prepared before lectures by having read the material beforehand and written down intelligent questions to ask the instructors...
I hate doing a lecture session and watching my students surf while I talk..so I walk the room while I lecture and also which is why I do interactive sessions where I call on the students and ask them to discuss why one answer is better than another...I also make up board style questions and we discuss why one answer is correct while the others are wrong...
regurg lectures are obsolete..

PS Bones you doing good from one Bones fan to another

Originally Posted by dermpathdoc

why do you need to have an IT disable them for u...just go into the computer and uninstall the programs..not that hard...and frankly...the best thing is to turn the computer OFF during class time and do paper notes...
and the old fashioned way of being prepared before lectures by having read the material beforehand and written down intelligent questions to ask the instructors...
I hate doing a lecture session and watching my students surf while I talk..so I walk the room while I lecture and also which is why I do interactive sessions where I call on the students and ask them to discuss why one answer is better than another...I also make up board style questions and we discuss why one answer is correct while the others are wrong...
regurg lectures are obsolete..

PS Bones you doing good from one Bones fan to another

I don't really surf during class because I'm usually too busy typing up my notes for me to study. I do, however, tend to procrasinate alot when I'm studying so blocking my favorite social sites would definitely come in handy for keeping me focus.

I am studying for step II right now and I have asked my wife to change my password on Facebook because it was very distracting. I am not on SDN a lot so this one is alright, but Facebook was addicting. Especially Bejeweled Blitz and Poker.


I am EMT2ER-DOC and I am a facebook addict.

Originally Posted by EMT2ER-DOC

I am studying for step II right now and I have asked my wife to change my password on Facebook because it was very distracting. I am not on SDN a lot so this one is alright, but Facebook was addicting. Especially Bejeweled Blitz and Poker.


I am EMT2ER-DOC and I am a facebook addict.

*applause* I am PMG and I'm a facebook (Family Feud, Price is Right, and Texas Hold'em) and SDN addict.

Originally Posted by PunkmedGirl

*applause* I am PMG and I'm a facebook (Family Feud, Price is Right, and Texas Hold'em) and SDN addict.

Way to go Bones. More power to you.

Glad to see you're doing well!

Bones... how is the semester going for you? Hope you are doing ok

Originally Posted by Slevin

Bones... how is the semester going for you? Hope you are doing ok

Above average in all systems save GI I continue to get pms once or twice a month from dismissed students. We have lost 9 so far in rvus c/o 2014 but I don't think all were fully dismissed.. some are allowed to start over next year and one quit outright. Attrition is higher than most think but it doesn't have to be the end of the journey if you are dedicated, patient, hard working and humble.

Keep up the good work and when you graduate mail a copy of your diploma to the school and tell them they can shove it!

Originally Posted by Bones DO

I have thought this through quite a bit and I have to try either way. What becomes of people that don't match, can they do something else and try to match the following year?

Originally Posted by ShyRem

EM is becoming more and more competitive. Several in last year's UNE class who were top of the class in board scores, 2nd and 3rd year grades, etc. got their 6th or 8th rank choice. A couple didn't match at all. I was shocked - I thought several of them would get their top choice and be a shoe-in.

This is for the folks who fall into the dangerous mindset that all you need to do in medical school is pass. Don't-believe-the-hype!

Yes, grades matter. Yes, board scores matter. Yes, recommendation letters matter. When you get into medical school, aim to be the best and nothing less. The instant you stop doing so is the instant you make yourself vulnerable not only for dismissal, but also for matching into a malignant residency or not matching at all. Even if you think you'd prefer pursuing a non-competitive specialty like family medicine, keep in mind not all family medicine residencies are the same. Believe me, you WANT to have your pick of where you match. The only life more miserable than a malignant residency is being in prison (and even that is debatable).

Originally Posted by Bones DO

Above average in all systems save GI I continue to get pms once or twice a month from dismissed students. We have lost 9 so far in rvus c/o 2014 but I don't think all were fully dismissed.. some are allowed to start over next year and one quit outright. Attrition is higher than most think but it doesn't have to be the end of the journey if you are dedicated, patient, hard working and humble.

Keep on truckin' man. Keep on truckin'.

Originally Posted by Bones DO

Above average in all systems save GI I continue to get pms once or twice a month from dismissed students. We have lost 9 so far in rvus c/o 2014 but I don't think all were fully dismissed.. some are allowed to start over next year and one quit outright. Attrition is higher than most think but it doesn't have to be the end of the journey if you are dedicated, patient, hard working and humble.

Way to go man! It's amazing to me how many students are dismissed from med school. Prior to starting, I had heard it was maybe 1-2 students per class. Seems to be much more than that.

Out of curiosity, did any of the students who contacted you ever win their appeal?

umm I vote this to be the best thread ever..

Way to go, Bones! You're an inspiration for anyone who's struggled at anything and then came back to kick some butt.

I'm curious what happens when you apply for residency. Do you have to disclose that you initially attended another school and were dismissed?

Keep up the good work Bones!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wanna- in all, 2 won appeals, rest are either going PA, working on getting back in or heading to the carib

Lobe- I think so, but not 100% sure . . . I am leaning toward disclosing it even if I don't have to.

To rest thanks :-) update: endo/repro system finished 2.8 pts under average...at peace with it

now back to neuro!!

Congrats Bones

Officially survived first year! Little over 81% average overall.

Originally Posted by Bones DO

Officially survived first year! Little over 81% average overall.

Congrats, keep it up

Originally Posted by Bones DO

Officially survived first year! Little over 81% average overall.

Just read through this thread for the first time. Your story definitely inspires me!

This thread inspired me to log off SDN and actually study for level 2, instead of wasting time.

For those of you taking level 2: I know a lot of people say #2 is easier than level1 but I call BS. The exam is graded on the standard deviation curve and you're being compared with the same people as level1, so unless everyone decided to "take it easy" you have to work just as hard as the first time to get the same score. The material may be "easy" in terms you've see the same info in your first 2 yrs, but it still doesnt decrease the amount of work you have to do. Peace.

glad to hear you are doing well OP!!! keep up the good work. inspirational for people to never give up on their dream.

Bones,

Where you at? How are things going for you?

Originally Posted by Slevin

Bones,

Where you at? How are things going for you?

4th semester's going well so far!

Nice, Congrats. Keep up the good work!

OK, I know some people like to hear updates from me and I also have a question for you all. I passed all my preclinical courses +/- 1-2 points of my class' mean, finishing with about an 81 average and am in the midst of board prep. Based on about 300 questions from kaplan's QBank they're saying I'd get around 219 if I took it today (can anyone attest to the accuracy of kaplan's score estimate tool?). I'm scheduled for Comlex I on 7/11/12 and am at about 60% on 300 of Combank's qbank. I'm physically writing out the concepts I don't remember in a massive double binder with 22 subjects. I am sticking to a strict study regimen and feel it is going well in general. My weakest topics are pharmacology and neuroanatomy/neuroscience.

I am still thinking I want to do EM, and I wouldn't at all mind doing a DO residency and have a friend who is going to be a PGY-I at an AOA program this summer that seems appealing to me. I am curious if you guys think I should take the USMLE or not? Exactly 2 months left of study time and I'm hoping to get up to at least 70% hit ratio on the qbanks...will be getting USMLE World for the last 4 weeks of my prep. All opinions welcome, thanks.

Originally Posted by Bones DO

OK, I know some people like to hear updates from me and I also have a question for you all. I passed all my preclinical courses +/- 1-2 points of my class' mean, finishing with about an 81 average and am in the midst of board prep. Based on about 300 questions from kaplan's QBank they're saying I'd get around 219 if I took it today (can anyone attest to the accuracy of kaplan's score estimate tool?). I'm scheduled for Comlex I on 7/11/12 and am at about 60% on 300 of Combank's qbank. I'm physically writing out the concepts I don't remember in a massive double binder with 22 subjects. I am sticking to a strict study regimen and feel it is going well in general. My weakest topics are pharmacology and neuroanatomy/neuroscience.

I am still thinking I want to do EM, and I wouldn't at all mind doing a DO residency and have a friend who is going to be a PGY-I at an AOA program this summer that seems appealing to me. I am curious if you guys think I should take the USMLE or not? Exactly 2 months left of study time and I'm hoping to get up to at least 70% hit ratio on the qbanks...will be getting USMLE World for the last 4 weeks of my prep. All opinions welcome, thanks.

Hit the qbanks hard I mean two question sets per day and going through all of the explanations thoroughly. It will help drill old concepts back in and tie in gaps in your knowledge. It was the best investment for both steps Comlex and USMLE to develop a base knowledge. Comquest is good for COMLEX II and III I hear as welll. Good luck to you we are all proud to hear your rebound...now go study

Questions, questions and more questions. When I was studying for both step 1 and 2 I did a **** ton of questions. When you get a question wrong write down the concepts and review those concepts later.

Keep it up you can do it

Originally Posted by Bones DO

OK, I know some people like to hear updates from me and I also have a question for you all. I passed all my preclinical courses +/- 1-2 points of my class' mean, finishing with about an 81 average and am in the midst of board prep. Based on about 300 questions from kaplan's QBank they're saying I'd get around 219 if I took it today (can anyone attest to the accuracy of kaplan's score estimate tool?). I'm scheduled for Comlex I on 7/11/12 and am at about 60% on 300 of Combank's qbank. I'm physically writing out the concepts I don't remember in a massive double binder with 22 subjects. I am sticking to a strict study regimen and feel it is going well in general. My weakest topics are pharmacology and neuroanatomy/neuroscience.

I am still thinking I want to do EM, and I wouldn't at all mind doing a DO residency and have a friend who is going to be a PGY-I at an AOA program this summer that seems appealing to me. I am curious if you guys think I should take the USMLE or not? Exactly 2 months left of study time and I'm hoping to get up to at least 70% hit ratio on the qbanks...will be getting USMLE World for the last 4 weeks of my prep. All opinions welcome, thanks.

The best way of gauging where you're at is to take an NBME. Also, I've always been a big proponent of UWorld for both COMLEX and USMLE. I felt like it teaches concepts better than any other qbank. It's not entirely representative of either exam in that it tends to be more difficult and tests you on the exceptions to certain topics extensively but I think as a preparation resource it's by far the best. I went through a lot of the Kaplan QBank as well for Step 1 and I think there were a fair amount of questions that I thought were rotation/Step 2 specific (I think my final estimate from their tool was like 230? ended up with a 240+). I really wouldn't really too heavily on qbank %s or block %s since (1)a couple questions can sway your score/estimate and (2)if it's not really a true mirror of the exam, I don't feel like it's a good indicator of how you'll do. I think it's a good GENERAL indicator of progress though and it sounds like you're really picking up some steam.

Being two months out, I would take an NBME practice test soon to see where you're at. If you pass, I would go ahead and register for the USMLE if you're considering MD programs (there's a okay amount of DO love in MD EM). Take another NBME exam 2-4weeks out from the exam and reevaluate...generally, I think it's worth taking the exam if you can feel fairly confident that you'll do at least average. It's only not worth taking if (1) you don't forsee yourself trying for any MD residencies or (2) you're NBME exams indicate you'll barely pass. Also, keep in mind not all NBME exams are the same so read a little bit about which ones might be the best gauge.

Glad you're doing well, feel free to PM for anything more.

Originally Posted by ensuii

The best way of gauging where you're at is to take an NBME. Also, I've always been a big proponent of UWorld for both COMLEX and USMLE. I felt like it teaches concepts better than any other qbank. It's not entirely representative of either exam in that it tends to be more difficult and tests you on the exceptions to certain topics extensively but I think as a preparation resource it's by far the best. I went through a lot of the Kaplan QBank as well for Step 1 and I think there were a fair amount of questions that I thought were rotation/Step 2 specific (I think my final estimate from their tool was like 230? ended up with a 240+). I really wouldn't really too heavily on qbank %s or block %s since (1)a couple questions can sway your score/estimate and (2)if it's not really a true mirror of the exam, I don't feel like it's a good indicator of how you'll do. I think it's a good GENERAL indicator of progress though and it sounds like you're really picking up some steam.

Being two months out, I would take an NBME practice test soon to see where you're at. If you pass, I would go ahead and register for the USMLE if you're considering MD programs (there's a okay amount of DO love in MD EM). Take another NBME exam 2-4weeks out from the exam and reevaluate...generally, I think it's worth taking the exam if you can feel fairly confident that you'll do at least average. It's only not worth taking if (1) you don't forsee yourself trying for any MD residencies or (2) you're NBME exams indicate you'll barely pass. Also, keep in mind not all NBME exams are the same so read a little bit about which ones might be the best gauge.

Glad you're doing well, feel free to PM for anything more.

So I've gotten through about 1/3 of both kaplan qbank and combank, at 58% and 65% receptively and I just spent most of today taking a practice USMLE step 1. I have discovered I suck at microbiology and have also realized I have no idea what the hell this usmle score means. Is this passing or close or what? Does anyone know how to estimate a 3-digit score from this mess? Guidance is appreciated!

PS: 5 weeks ago I took a full length COMLEX and got 47% so I think this is a good trend right?

Originally Posted by Bones DO

So I've gotten through about 1/3 of both kaplan qbank and combank, at 58% and 65% receptively and I just spent most of today taking a practice USMLE step 1. I have discovered I suck at microbiology and have also realized I have no idea what the hell this usmle score means. Is this passing or close or what? Does anyone know how to estimate a 3-digit score from this mess? Guidance is appreciated!

PS: 5 weeks ago I took a full length COMLEX and got 47% so I think this is a good trend right?

it's hard to estimate what your 3-digit score will be if you've only finished 1/3 of the qbank. try finishing more of it (>50%) and then you can use something like this to guess where you'll actually end up: http://www.medfriends.org/step1_estimator/
note that this is only for the USMLE, not for the COMLEX.

what was your 3-digit score for the practice USMLE (i'm assuming this is an NBME, or UW self-assessment)? passing for my exam was 189. i think the median was 220.

Originally Posted by Bones DO

So I've gotten through about 1/3 of both kaplan qbank and combank, at 58% and 65% receptively and I just spent most of today taking a practice USMLE step 1. I have discovered I suck at microbiology and have also realized I have no idea what the hell this usmle score means. Is this passing or close or what? Does anyone know how to estimate a 3-digit score from this mess? Guidance is appreciated!

PS: 5 weeks ago I took a full length COMLEX and got 47% so I think this is a good trend right?

There is a website that literally can take your scores on any qbabk (except combank) or practice test and estimate your step 1 score with a margin of error which it tells you. I'll post it later bevause my phone hates me right now, maybe my laptop will be nicer.

Generally apeaking though, you measure your projected score once your 1/3 or more into the whole bank. And you do the average of 6 practice sections. Since most people suck their first 200 questions, and most people have "seen it all" by the last 200 or so questions. It's misleading to include those early and very late attempts.

I appreciate the input guys, thanks very much!

Forgot to post this yesterday:

EDIT: WOW!!!! you can't post a link to any sites that compete with SDN. thats crazy. monopoly!!! Okay lets do this a different way. REMOVE THE RED "&" SIGN BETWEEN CLINICAL AND REVIEW



http://clinical&review.com/ClinicalReview/resources/usmle-score-calculator.html