Is Tufts Worth 315k plus interest?

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http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=671529

Premeds.

Don't go to TUFTS.

315k plus interest, starting as an intern. Guys, this is INSANE. Anyone paying full sticker price should go elsewhere, or simply not go to medical school. Even at 7% (which you won't get, due to a mix of private lenders you'll have), it'll be 21,000 a year in interest.

Schools that keep raising tuition such as Tufts to unbelievable levels should be punished, i.e., shut down from lack of interest, for leading you guys into such traps.

Originally Posted by Coastie

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=671529

Premeds.

Don't go to TUFTS.

315k plus interest, starting as an intern. Guys, this is INSANE. Anyone paying full sticker price should go elsewhere, or simply not go to medical school. Even at 7% (which you won't get, due to a mix of private lenders you'll have), it'll be 21,000 a year in interest.

Schools that keep raising tuition such as Tufts to unbelievable levels should be punished, i.e., shut down from lack of interest, for leading you guys into such traps.

Wow.I'm interviewing there next week. Not to downplay the impact but dental students on average graduate at that debt level! They seem to turn out fine though. MD schools have it good compared to them.

UPenn dental ( insane):
http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academic...d-tuition.html

NYU dental (GOOD LORD):
http://www.nyu.edu/dental/financials...pensesdds.html

That's insane. No school is worth 200k, let alone 300k.

I know people who took out loans for an expensive private undergrad school and then went on to an expensive grad school. They probably now have as much debt as going through four years of Tufts med.

I hear what you're saying, but if it's a choice between 315k and not going to med. school, you know what most people on these boards will choose. I guess you just have to live like a resident for a few years after your training is completed to work that debt down to a manageable amount. 20+k/year just in interest is, I agree, completely mind-bogglingly insane.

Wow, dear lord... I will have about 95k of student loans just from undergrad and then after medical school I guess I am going to have to work on the corner part time...

If it's the only school that accepted me, I would go in a heartbeat no matter the cost.

It's the investment for your future. Go for it if you have only been accepted by Tufs.

Originally Posted by Poliscidoc

Wow, dear lord... I will have about 95k of student loans just from undergrad and then after medical school I guess I am going to have to work on the corner part time...

Now that's dedication

Owch! And Tufts is one of my top choices... Although the Maine track would help some.

Most def not worth it.

Yeah...it kinda sucks honestly. Even the cheapest school (not including USUHS) will prolly put you into 6 figure debt. Going out of state for med school is just brutal.

http://www.pacificcompanies.com/compsurveys_mgma.html
http://www.merritthawkins.com/pdf/mh...tivesurvey.pdf

^ Makes me feel a little bit better. However, I think it's important to anyone considering a future in medicine to realize that they're most likely going to be in the red until their mid/late 30s. It sucks and for some people with families to look after, it's enough to consider an alternate pathway...but it's what you give up to do the job.

Try not to listen to medicinesux. He's obviously one of those people that had the mindset that "pre-med sucks but med school will be worth it...med school sucks but residency will be worth it...residency sucks but being a doctor is worth it" only to realize that being a doctor sucks for him. In every career path you're going to get people that are resoundingly happy with their choice and those that are not. He's just one of the latter and very vocal about it. When it comes down to it, a majority of the public doesn't know or care about what it takes to become a doctor...you give up the best years of your life to be in a high-stress environment that ends up being a financial pithole considering what one can do with similar hours/training in anyone career path. But again, it's what you give up to be a healer. 315k is cheap. (...but a ripoff for dentistry...I mean...teeth, seriously?)

Much better for dentistry than med school. At least the dentists don't have OBAMA CARE to worry about..not even medicare/medicaid.

If the choice is tufts 315k + interest (roughly 400k when you START working, assuming you do a 3 year primary care residency) versus no med school, then work harder to get into another med school.

For some, the choice is carib vs no med school. Should they still go to carib? How good of a "healer" are you going to be when you can't afford to make student loan payments and live decently?

Guys, this is coming from a pgy-3..I love my work, medicine can be very rewarding, but you cannot ignore the finances.

We're staring down rising taxes and decreasing reimbursements (big time), more so than any time in history. Are you really going to pay higher and higher tuition fees in the face of a lagging economy? Tufts is a scam.

Flee.

Originally Posted by Coastie

Much better for dentistry than med school. At least the dentists don't have OBAMA CARE to worry about..not even medicare/medicaid.

If the choice is tufts 315k + interest (roughly 400k when you START working, assuming you do a 3 year primary care residency) versus no med school, then work harder to get into another med school.

For some, the choice is carib vs no med school. Should they still go to carib? How good of a "healer" are you going to be when you can't afford to make student loan payments and live decently?

Guys, this is coming from a pgy-3..I love my work, medicine can be very rewarding, but you cannot ignore the finances.

We're staring down rising taxes and decreasing reimbursements (big time), more so than any time in history. Are you really going to pay higher and higher tuition fees in the face of a lagging economy? Tufts is a scam.

Flee.

You do realize we are playing catch up. In 6 years half of most private med schools will cost the same as Tufts. What do we do then? I still think we have it good compared to dentists who pay far higher tuition and don't get paid during residency. Majority of dentists don't specialize(limited spots). So most practice general dentistry and earn roughly the same as hospitalists while carrying 2x the amount of debt.

Originally Posted by BlueElmo

If it's the only school that accepted me, I would go in a heartbeat no matter the cost.

Same here

Just think about other things that you can do with that amount of money. Jot them down and compare the pros and cons.

For example, you can buy lump of human excrements, ferrari, home sweet home, kidney, etc etc

Or you can attend medical school

Do what feels right

Most dentists smoke primary care docs and they do so without a residency.

I don't know what's happening in 6 years other than schools will undoubtedly raise tuition. I do know what Tufts costs now, and I'm telling you guys, it ain't worth it.

Economically, anyone going to Tufts med is committing SUICIDE. Check out all the lawyers now floundering with debt and limited job options. Tufts grads who do anything except plastics or derm will likely face a similar situation.

It's gonna be very ugly when Tufts grads start to pay back their loans, assuming they can get residency spots thanks to all the new med schools opening and stagnant GME. You can't just assume things will be ok in the future...you have to play it smart. Anyone who goes to Tufts for 315k is just playing it dumb.

Originally Posted by MegaProjectile

You do realize we are playing catch up. In 6 years half of most private med schools will cost the same as Tufts. What do we do then? I still think we have it good compared to dentists who pay far higher tuition and don't get paid during residency. Majority of dentists don't specialize(limited spots). So most practice general dentistry and earn roughly the same as hospitalists while carrying 2x the amount of debt.

Originally Posted by 09javcar

Same here

Why? Why would you pay 400k+ to come out as an attending making 150k a year? It's financial suicide.

I would still go if I was only accepted to Tufts. I'm not used to living with a lot of money anyway.

lots of schools are up there. a couple thousand in a few hundred isnt much anymore

Originally Posted by Poliscidoc

Wow, dear lord... I will have about 95k of student loans just from undergrad and then after medical school I guess I am going to have to work on the corner part time...

I really hope you're pretty... and good at recognizing undercover cops.

Oh yeah. Stay off the crack.

Originally Posted by Coastie

Why? Why would you pay 400k+ to come out as an attending making 150k a year? It's financial suicide.

Life is not all about money. I'd rather be in 400k+ in debt and making 150k a year and be doing something that I want to do than "not" in debt and doing something I don't like.

Plus this is America and everyone is in debt anyways. Take a look around...

500k mortgage,
50k car
15k credit cars

etc.. Get the point?

Originally Posted by schrizto

I would still go if I was only accepted to Tufts. I'm not used to living with a lot of money anyway.

Haha, exactly.... I lived, well my entire family lived, for years in a 5k a year salary from both my parents.

Originally Posted by 09javcar

Life is not all about money. I'd rather be in 400k+ in debt and making 150k a year and be doing something that I want to do than "not" in debt and doing something I don't like.

Plus this is America and everyone is in debt anyways. Take a look around...

500k mortgage,
50k car
15k credit cars

etc.. Get the point?

This post it priceless. In a very, very sad way.

You, my friend, are the one who does not "get it". "this is America" is not a reason to do things contarary to good sense. True this is how America has been running for quite some time, and look where it got us.

Hey, if it's the only medical school I get into, I'd rather wallow in debt living out my dream than, ya know... not go to med school

Not saying that those ridiculous rates are acceptable, but placing the blame all on Tufts seems excessive.

Many other schools are in the 70k range as well, and Tufts is in a high cost of living area.

The question then isn't "Is Tufts worth 315k," Its "Is Tufts worth the extra 20k" over school Z

If I really liked a school, I would take the school thats a better fit for me and would make me a better doctor than 20k.

Originally Posted by DrYoda

This post it priceless. In a very, very sad way.

You, my friend, are the one who does not "get it". "this is America" is not a reason to do things contarary to good sense. True this is how America has been running for quite some time, and look where it got us.

Hell, I don't even plan on staying in "America" I know it's a horrible place to live. I'm just saying why would I give up on a dream just because of debt? If I get into any other Med School, I'll be in at least 200k in debt. I'd rather be in another 100k more than regret the rest of my life of why I didn't go to med school. If it's about money I'd do this.

Live in a 100k home or less, buy a 10k car and not rack up any credit debt and problem solved.

damn, i would take a year off and switch to mdphd to not have to pay that ****

Originally Posted by Coastie

Why? Why would you pay 400k+ to come out as an attending making 150k a year? It's financial suicide.

Because I want to be a doctor. Duh.

That debt level might be enough to make me consider a military scholarship (if I were going into primary care). However, it's still better than having to settle for the wrong career.

Originally Posted by BlueElmo

Because I want to be a doctor. Duh.

Yup, I guess what separates those who truly want to become doctors to those who are in it just for the money is money itself. Desire to become a doctor has extend past the point of money issues.

well theres a thing about being a doctor and still wanting your independence and not wanting to burden your practice and family

I think the issue of money is entirely one of perspective.

The perspective of a PGY-3 isn't more "right" than that of a premed, or the other way around. A pre-med applying to med school is going to think med school and the promises of an awesome future career are worth the money. A resident who's either in the process of paying debt or looking ahead and realizing how much money he has to pay all the while living on almost no money will think debt is insane. And I've known many attendings who have expressed debt was no big deal because they've paid it off and are living a comfortable life.
The way I see it is that when you go to a very expensive school and incur a lot of debt, you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to go into one of the better paid fields, or are willing to live a less upper-classish lifestyle. And that's fine. To each his own. I'd probably be willing to be under that kind of debt to do what I want to do, especially since I probably wouldn't go into primary care anyway.

For what it's worth, Tufts is an awesome school and you should all be so lucky as to go there. Boston is an obscenely expensive city and while Harvard has money coming out of its ears and BU has a massive undergrad to support it, Tufts has a much smaller private school to back it up, which is why it needs to charge as much as it does. If I remember correctly, it takes about a million dollars to train a doctor, so what we pay is actually minimal compared to how much it costs to train us.

To the OP: to say that charging a lot of money for tuition is some sort of conspiracy for the administration or professors or God knows who else to get rich is incredibly myopic. Med schools in the US are non-profits so by definition they can't be trying to make money to please to investors or something. Also, saying "if you're willing to pay that kind of money, choose another career" is easy when you're sitting where you're sitting. You're already a physician, which makes you the least believable proponent of that plan. It's easy to say you wouldn't have gone into medicine now- you have no idea what you would have done had you been a premed nowadays, having worked really hard to get into med school, and being unable to get a job even if you tried because of how the economy is.

Originally Posted by BlueElmo

If it's the only school that accepted me, I would go in a heartbeat no matter the cost.

Absolutely! No question about it.

Originally Posted by ButImLETired

I think the issue of money is entirely one of perspective.

The perspective of a PGY-3 isn't more "right" than that of a premed, or the other way around. A pre-med applying to med school is going to think med school and the promises of an awesome future career are worth the money. A resident who's either in the process of paying debt or looking ahead and realizing how much money he has to pay all the while living on almost no money will think debt is insane. And I've known many attendings who have expressed debt was no big deal because they've paid it off and are living a comfortable life.
The way I see it is that when you go to a very expensive school and incur a lot of debt, you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to go into one of the better paid fields, or are willing to live a less upper-classish lifestyle. And that's fine. To each his own. I'd probably be willing to be under that kind of debt to do what I want to do, especially since I probably wouldn't go into primary care anyway.

For what it's worth, Tufts is an awesome school and you should all be so lucky as to go there. Boston is an obscenely expensive city and while Harvard has money coming out of its ears and BU has a massive undergrad to support it, Tufts has a much smaller private school to back it up, which is why it needs to charge as much as it does. If I remember correctly, it takes about a million dollars to train a doctor, so what we pay is actually minimal compared to how much it costs to train us.

To the OP: to say that charging a lot of money for tuition is some sort of conspiracy for the administration or professors or God knows who else to get rich is incredibly myopic. Med schools in the US are non-profits so by definition they can't be trying to make money to please to investors or something. Also, saying "if you're willing to pay that kind of money, choose another career" is easy when you're sitting where you're sitting. You're already a physician, which makes you the least believable proponent of that plan. It's easy to say you wouldn't have gone into medicine now- you have no idea what you would have done had you been a premed nowadays, having worked really hard to get into med school, and being unable to get a job even if you tried because of how the economy is.

I will also add that going to Tufts wouldn't necessarily force one into high paid specialties. There are government programs that will wipe your debt if you're willing to serve primary care in underserved areas for a couple of years.

Originally Posted by BlueElmo

If it's the only school that accepted me, I would go in a heartbeat no matter the cost.

Don't apply there in the first place so you don't have to be stuck with that as the only option.

Originally Posted by ButImLETired

To the OP: to say that charging a lot of money for tuition is some sort of conspiracy for the administration or professors or God knows who else to get rich is incredibly myopic. Med schools in the US are non-profits so by definition they can't be trying to make money to please to investors or something. Also, saying "if you're willing to pay that kind of money, choose another career" is easy when you're sitting where you're sitting. You're already a physician, which makes you the least believable proponent of that plan. It's easy to say you wouldn't have gone into medicine now- you have no idea what you would have done had you been a premed nowadays, having worked really hard to get into med school, and being unable to get a job even if you tried because of how the economy is.

Non-profit is a legal definition that is a bit deceiving. Being a non-profit deals with what you do with your profits. Non-profits can and in many cases do aim to make a profit. Universities/med schools like new shiny buildings, they like faculty pet projects, scholarship funds to attract future students, and all kinds of other stuff. High tuition is a good way to fund there things, especially since the gov is going to back the student loans.

Don't apply there in the first place so you don't have to be stuck with that as the only option.

This is the answer. We should make an SDN wall of shame thread for schools that charge insane tution and sticky it.

Originally Posted by BlueElmo

If it's the only school that accepted me, I would go in a heartbeat no matter the cost.

Ok, but don't complain when you're eating Ramen Noodles for the rest of your life.

Originally Posted by armybound

Don't apply there in the first place so you don't have to be stuck with that as the only option.

Despite the cost, it's still a good and well-regarded school. Hence the reason I applied.

Applying to a school is never a bad thing anyway. I'd rather have one really expensive option than no options at all.

Originally Posted by Chops369

Ok, but don't complain when you're eating Ramen Noodles for the rest of your life.

Ok, don't complain when Tufts (or any school you applied that has similar tuition) accepts you and you reject them all because you were to worried about the cost and you're stuck with a job you hate.

Originally Posted by MegaProjectile

Wow.I'm interviewing there next week. Not to downplay the impact but dental students on average graduate at that debt level! They seem to turn out fine though. MD schools have it good compared to them.

UPenn dental ( insane):
http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academic...d-tuition.html

NYU dental (GOOD LORD):
http://www.nyu.edu/dental/financials...pensesdds.html

I really had no idea Dental School was that expensive. That's pretty damn ridiculous...

cant dental students start making money their 3rd year

my favorite part of the data is the 4th year NYU students study for 10 months compared to the 12 months for the 3rd year of dental and the difference in living expensive is 8 grand

Originally Posted by 09javcar

Ok, don't complain when Tufts (or any school you applied that has similar tuition) accepts you and you reject them all because you were to worried about the cost and you're stuck with a job you hate.

Ever heard of a state school? They generally don't cost $70,000+ per year. This argument is terrible.

Originally Posted by Chops369

Ever heard of a state school? They generally don't cost $70,000+ per year. This argument is terrible.

The point is, what if Tufts was the only school to accept you... Not would you pick state school over Tufts, people would obviously go for state schools. No brain-er!

Originally Posted by MegaProjectile

Wow.I'm interviewing there next week. Not to downplay the impact but dental students on average graduate at that debt level! They seem to turn out fine though. MD schools have it good compared to them.

UPenn dental ( insane):
http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academic...d-tuition.html

NYU dental (GOOD LORD):
http://www.nyu.edu/dental/financials...pensesdds.html

$90,000 a year?!?!

Originally Posted by 09javcar

The point is, what if Tufts was the only school to accept you... Not would you pick state school over Tufts, people would obviously go for state schools. No brain-er!

Unless you're from California, it's probably going to be easier to get into your state school than Tufts. The solution is to withdraw from Tufts and only apply to cheaper schools. It's better to reapply next year than get swindled out of 300 grand at Tufts.

Originally Posted by 09javcar

Life is not all about money. I'd rather be in 400k+ in debt and making 150k a year and be doing something that I want to do than "not" in debt and doing something I don't like.

Plus this is America and everyone is in debt anyways. Take a look around...

500k mortgage,
50k car
15k credit cars

etc.. Get the point?

The average American has approximately $8,000 in credit card debt (figures vary by how you calculate it), but never $15,000. The average American also does not drive a $50,000 car or have a $500,000 house.

Originally Posted by cookymonster

Unless you're from California, it's probably going to be easier to get into your state school than Tufts. The solution is to withdraw from Tufts and only apply to cheaper schools. It's better to reapply next year than get swindled out of 300 grand at Tufts.

But getting into a Medical School is never guaranteed, just because you're more like to get into a state school doesn't mean you wont get rejected and accepted somewhere else, say Tufts? Tufts might find something that appeals to them and accept you.

Originally Posted by Beta Cell

The average American has approximately $8,000 in credit card debt (figures vary by how you calculate it), but never $15,000. The average American also does not drive a $50,000 car or have a $500,000 house.

I know that very well, but I was referring to living in expensive cities such as Boston and New York. AND I was exaggerating. Then again, we are not the average Americans are we?

Originally Posted by 09javcar

Then again, we are not the average Americans are we?

If anything, us students should be poorer than the average American.