I was wondering if any of you have heard anything about the University of Hawaii Pathology Residency Program. I heard that they have an openning for a second year resident this upcoming year and I thought what would be better than learning pathology in Hawaii. But I was wondering if anyone has heard anything about the program in general?
University of Hawaii Pathology Residency
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Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to find out everything you can about Hawaii's training program and report back here.
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You know, I think Hawaii should be in the top 5 programs
1)BWH
2)JHU
3)UCSF
4)Stanford
5) Drop MGH Add Hawaii.
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Totally not sure if this is true or not, but a co-resident told me he met someone from Hawaii who transferred out of there and the reason being that residents don't gross there.
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That sounds like a reason stay. That might give it a couple more points to push it to 3rd or 4th on the PCS ranking of path programs.
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Okay..I spit coffee out my nose reading that.
Yes, yes Im sure I would transfer out of a program where I didnt gross...
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ridiculous
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That is too bad because I just checked with the Pathology Championship Series (PCS rankings) computer and had Hawaii had no grossing it would have leaped frogged Stanford and UCSF to number 3 behind JHU and BWH largely based on no grossing and strength of location.
Sure there is some benefit to the gross examination of surgical specimens, but there is no greater waste of pathologist's or pathology resident's time than grossing.
Because our role as pathologists, obviously, is to sign out biopsies in a POD lab, for minimum wage.
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I interviewed at Hawai`i last year. They had only one first year spot available. If it's true that they have a second year position open, then that means NOBODY matched into that program this year or the sucker who did is about to cut and run. Sad. One of the hospitals (St Francis) was closing and there was talk of moving all sign out to a centralized office away from the hospital. It had a very POD-ish/sinking ship vibe going.
Well, I have been able to do some research. The program is small, and thats why they had one slot last year as there was only one graduate out of ten resident so there was only one spot to replace. This year there are more people graduating and so there is more spots open and I feel they may want a second year resident to balance the classes. I hear that it is a great program, not big name but solid program as residents get good training, especially in anatomical pathology and cytopathology. The program is composed of two main clincial practices that support the training of the residents as there is no specific academic or teaching hospital so that is why there are PAs there to do the work regardless if the residents are there or not, but residents have the chance to do as much grossing as they want and there is more than enough material to gross. So I think those feelings or deficiencies previously mentioned are not quite true, but then again I could be wrong. But they sure seem to be interested in taking a second year resident next year, so if there is anyone interested they should apply and check it out. Again, it is in Hawaii! 
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I have been a long-time reader, but this is my first post, so forgive me if I do something Im not suppose to. Since I am a graduate from the Hawaii program I feel I should chime in and give you my thoughts on why there is a second year position open and well as some of the strengths and weaknesses of the program.
First issue why is a second year position is open? There is not really a second year position open. The program in Hawaii is very small (10 residents total). Unfortunately, due to a combination of switching from 5 years to 4 years as well as a few people who are off cycle for various reasons (mostly related to pregnancy or kid issues) the program is not evenly distributed. This is why one year they graduated four people while another year they only graduated one. People have been talking about it for a few years now, but the thought is that they would like to balance the class out a bit better, which they hope to do by bringing in a non-first year. I do have to admit that when I was there I expressed concern about bringing in someone in mid training, as many times these are people who come with some sort of unresolved issue at another institution. Im not saying that you cant get a good resident this way, but I do admit that it raises a red flag for me.
Second issue hows the program. Strengths include good AP and hemepath training. The CP training is improving, but it is a program with a strong focus on AP. We are given a lot of independence, which I now recognize as valuable as I go through different institutions (fellowship and so forth). The program required residents to rotate through 3 hospitals. Due to the dropping volume of one of the hospitals (mentioned in the previous comment), residents were pulled from the institution due to lack of educational benefit since there werent very many specimens. Surgery and IM were also pulled as well since they didnt have enough admissions. However, this resulted in more time spent at the largest hospital with a volume of approximately 60K, probably getting close to 70K now. So, though I think the move is sad since the pathologists at the other hospital were very good, it has not impacted the training negatively though I admit other graduates may disagree. Grossing has not been much of a criticism of our program. To be honest, most of the criticism comes from our attendings that used to say we didnt gross enough. As residents, we sometimes had a hard time keeping tract of how one hospital does things versus the other. I think this has led to some criticism by our attendings that thought we needed more grossing experience merely because we did not gross things the way they wanted. In my opinion, we grossed enough. There are enough large and complicated specimens that you get to do it a number of times and you learn how to do I competently so that when you are in practice you know how to handle things. The major downside of our program is that Saturday is a mandatory workday pretty much every week with rare exceptions. Unfortunately, I dont think this will ever change. Sometimes you are out by 12pm and sometimes its a whole day. This is unfortunately a major deterrent especially when you are trying to attract good applicants since its hard to get people to come clear across the pacific unless they are really interested in living in Hawaii and willing to deal with the Saturday thing. A strength or weakness of the program is that we dont have fellows. Its good because you are pretty much responsible for everything. However, now that I am a fellow and take pride in my role in the education of residents, I now realize that sometimes having a fellow around is a tremendous asset (perhaps I am just tooting my own horn). In any case, most of the residents in Hawaiis program go on to good fellowships and jobs.
To sum up if I havent already board people with my long comment: Hawaii is a small program with good AP/heme training, and CP program that is improving. We are small and relatively off the map and without fellows, yet our residents go on to good fellowships and careers. A major downside is that we work almost every Saturday. Though I am a proud graduate, I have tried to give a balanced opinion. If anyone is interested in applying there, I would be happy to reply to any posts/questions they may have and give an honest answer. Best of luck to everyone and their residency, fellowship, and job hunting.
First issue why is a second year position is open? There is not really a second year position open. The program in Hawaii is very small (10 residents total). Unfortunately, due to a combination of switching from 5 years to 4 years as well as a few people who are off cycle for various reasons (mostly related to pregnancy or kid issues) the program is not evenly distributed. This is why one year they graduated four people while another year they only graduated one. People have been talking about it for a few years now, but the thought is that they would like to balance the class out a bit better, which they hope to do by bringing in a non-first year. I do have to admit that when I was there I expressed concern about bringing in someone in mid training, as many times these are people who come with some sort of unresolved issue at another institution. Im not saying that you cant get a good resident this way, but I do admit that it raises a red flag for me.
Second issue hows the program. Strengths include good AP and hemepath training. The CP training is improving, but it is a program with a strong focus on AP. We are given a lot of independence, which I now recognize as valuable as I go through different institutions (fellowship and so forth). The program required residents to rotate through 3 hospitals. Due to the dropping volume of one of the hospitals (mentioned in the previous comment), residents were pulled from the institution due to lack of educational benefit since there werent very many specimens. Surgery and IM were also pulled as well since they didnt have enough admissions. However, this resulted in more time spent at the largest hospital with a volume of approximately 60K, probably getting close to 70K now. So, though I think the move is sad since the pathologists at the other hospital were very good, it has not impacted the training negatively though I admit other graduates may disagree. Grossing has not been much of a criticism of our program. To be honest, most of the criticism comes from our attendings that used to say we didnt gross enough. As residents, we sometimes had a hard time keeping tract of how one hospital does things versus the other. I think this has led to some criticism by our attendings that thought we needed more grossing experience merely because we did not gross things the way they wanted. In my opinion, we grossed enough. There are enough large and complicated specimens that you get to do it a number of times and you learn how to do I competently so that when you are in practice you know how to handle things. The major downside of our program is that Saturday is a mandatory workday pretty much every week with rare exceptions. Unfortunately, I dont think this will ever change. Sometimes you are out by 12pm and sometimes its a whole day. This is unfortunately a major deterrent especially when you are trying to attract good applicants since its hard to get people to come clear across the pacific unless they are really interested in living in Hawaii and willing to deal with the Saturday thing. A strength or weakness of the program is that we dont have fellows. Its good because you are pretty much responsible for everything. However, now that I am a fellow and take pride in my role in the education of residents, I now realize that sometimes having a fellow around is a tremendous asset (perhaps I am just tooting my own horn). In any case, most of the residents in Hawaiis program go on to good fellowships and jobs.
To sum up if I havent already board people with my long comment: Hawaii is a small program with good AP/heme training, and CP program that is improving. We are small and relatively off the map and without fellows, yet our residents go on to good fellowships and careers. A major downside is that we work almost every Saturday. Though I am a proud graduate, I have tried to give a balanced opinion. If anyone is interested in applying there, I would be happy to reply to any posts/questions they may have and give an honest answer. Best of luck to everyone and their residency, fellowship, and job hunting.
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We at MGH are hurt. But we are consoled by our two lovely and talented Hawaiian residents.
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I was under the impression that the residency in Hawaii wasn't particularly easy to get into. When I was a resident, there were 3 people from Hawaii in my program. I'm sure that all of them wanted to return after they were done, so I believe that probably would've liked to be able to train on the island.
I met a bunch of Hawaii residents when I took the Osler course in LA. They seemed like a close bunch. The whole group sat next to each other. I believe the program paid for Osler, which is another bonus. I don't know if that included airfare & hotel; I didn't ask. Maybe Sammy can clarify?
----- Antony
I met a bunch of Hawaii residents when I took the Osler course in LA. They seemed like a close bunch. The whole group sat next to each other. I believe the program paid for Osler, which is another bonus. I don't know if that included airfare & hotel; I didn't ask. Maybe Sammy can clarify?
----- Antony
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It is good to see thorough program reviews posted. Scutwork.com was supposed to be a resource for this sort of thing but the scutwork site has not panned out that well IMO. Hopefully we will see more of these type of reviews on scutwork so that it becomes an improved resource for students researching programs.
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I graduated last year. Here's my two cents:
Pros:
-very intelligent faculty, very good at what they do
-decent case load
-just enough grossing to learn it, not too much to overwhelm you
-almost always out by 530pm unless your a ***** or ass kisser
-great support staff (see above)
-perfect weather
-more beautiful than any place in america
Cons:
-work every saturday - 80% of the time. we make up for this in that, if you are smart, you will be out by 3 or 4 when you are on clinical path and 5 when you are on surgical path. but saturday work days still suck.
research - affiliated with a university, but really no research going on. if youre interested in academics, dont come here
-culture - stoic Japanese men dominate, which means they dont want to talk to you unless they have too. They are great teachers, but sometimes you have to drag it out of them
-youre broke the whole time youre here - however, if you are single, it is totally doable
-racism
-fairly large city totally lacking in culture in terms of music, film, art, fashion
per above comment about pod lab atmosphere - definitely not true. The major lab we work with is a private pathology lab that contracts with the largest hospital on the island and many of the private clinics. We dont work with any pod labs, and we dont support them.
also concerning second year position - not because someone dropped out, but because they fired a FMG that couldn't pass step three. Their fault for taking a subpar resident in the first place, but most residents are happy enough here.
It is far from perfect. If you want hand holding, dont waste your time. If you like self directed learning, surfing, and hiking, give it a shot!
Pros:
-very intelligent faculty, very good at what they do
-decent case load
-just enough grossing to learn it, not too much to overwhelm you
-almost always out by 530pm unless your a ***** or ass kisser
-great support staff (see above)
-perfect weather
-more beautiful than any place in america
Cons:
-work every saturday - 80% of the time. we make up for this in that, if you are smart, you will be out by 3 or 4 when you are on clinical path and 5 when you are on surgical path. but saturday work days still suck.
research - affiliated with a university, but really no research going on. if youre interested in academics, dont come here
-culture - stoic Japanese men dominate, which means they dont want to talk to you unless they have too. They are great teachers, but sometimes you have to drag it out of them
-youre broke the whole time youre here - however, if you are single, it is totally doable
-racism
-fairly large city totally lacking in culture in terms of music, film, art, fashion
per above comment about pod lab atmosphere - definitely not true. The major lab we work with is a private pathology lab that contracts with the largest hospital on the island and many of the private clinics. We dont work with any pod labs, and we dont support them.
also concerning second year position - not because someone dropped out, but because they fired a FMG that couldn't pass step three. Their fault for taking a subpar resident in the first place, but most residents are happy enough here.
It is far from perfect. If you want hand holding, dont waste your time. If you like self directed learning, surfing, and hiking, give it a shot!
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I cannot comment on anything about path, but one note as to racism: I'm white, I live in Waipahu (and if you know O'ahu, a lot of Waipahu is "the 'hood", and I didn't know that before I moved in), and I work in Wai'anae - which is the end of the world in Hawai'i for poverty. In other words, if you're a lily, I am NOT where you want to be. Still, I've encountered ZERO racism. I have not been called a "haole". I have not been told to "go home". No one has said "you did that because I'm black/Hawai'ian/Samoan/Japanese/whatever". I don't even get the "stink eye". The natives give me the benefit of the doubt, and I am trusted and accepted. People shake my hand when they see me, and I even had a woman tell me that she wanted me to deliver her baby while she was laboring on my last shift (I told her that "I don't do that, if I can help it") (I'm an EM doc).
And, while shopping today in Tiffany, I had to wait for service because there were so many customers. I did not stop into Prada, Chanel, or Gucci.
I mean, I'm just sayin' - you get out of it what you put in, and I haven't gotten any guff - AT ALL. Even got let go by HPD when pulled over for 75 in a 60.
And, while shopping today in Tiffany, I had to wait for service because there were so many customers. I did not stop into Prada, Chanel, or Gucci.
I mean, I'm just sayin' - you get out of it what you put in, and I haven't gotten any guff - AT ALL. Even got let go by HPD when pulled over for 75 in a 60.
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Hopefully I did this reply format correctly. In any case, from what I remember, the program will pay for a non-presentation (one that you didn't submit an abstract to) conference in your third and fourth year and will include registration fees, air, and hotel...provided it is not crazy. This means that you can go to Osler, California Society of Path, or other conference if you like. I'm not sure if it has changed, but I believe this is correct. There might have been a cap, like $1500 for everything and you pay the difference.
The racism issue is always hard to explain in Hawaii. As someone mentioned, they are doing very well living on the west side of Oahu. Hawaii is the melting pot with almost every race you can imagine. Many of us are a mix of many races, which is why if you ask any local person what they are you might get a list of something like Scotch, Japanese, Chinese, and Hawaiian. It is important to know that there are some customs to become familiar with (ex/ we never honk the car horn) and because everyone is so accustomed to other cultures, we make fun of every race including our own. From outside it looks like racism, but in many ways, the islanders are so comfortable with the broad spectrum of cultures that we openly joke about everything. It is difficult to put into words, but living a few years or having a friend from Hawaii makes things a lot clearer. In general, Hawaii people or some of the nicest people you will ever meet.
As far as work hours, like any residency, some people leave earlier than others. This may be due to efficiency and how good they were. In general, I left on the later side. Perhaps this is because I'm a sub-par pathologist (***** as described above) and/or ass-kisser. In general, I'm on the slow side. Hope this helps. I'll try and be better at checking on the thread.
