Are Personal Statements Really That Cheesy?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
EdLongshanks

EdLongshanks

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
1,812
Reaction score
14
I'm starting to think about my personal statement and going through Barron's "Essays that will get you into Medical School" for this purpose. But the example essays in it are, well, cheezy.

"'Spit happens,' as we say in my lab. Spit happened to me during the summer after my sophomore year in college...."

Is this really what a personal statement is supposed to sound like? Dramatized events from the past with embedded jokes?
Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
Here's another example, "As the rusted-out Land Rover made its way cautiously through dense thicket and crevices in the rocky dirt road, those of us sitting on top were able to peer through the trees at the sublime West African landscape."

This essay got the student accepted at Columbia, Cornell, Yale, Stanford, Duke, Mount Sinai and Harvard. But I don't understand. It's BAD WRITING. The opening sentence has 6 adjectives and and at least one unnecessary adverb. If someone sent this in to the newsletter that I edit, I would cut the whole sentence out. If you sent that into a publisher, he wouldn't even finish reading the first sentence before putting it in the reject pile.

Are these essays really supposed to be florid exercises in purple prose?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
EdLongshanks said:
Here's another example, "As the rusted-out Land Rover made its way cautiously through dense thicket and crevices in the rocky dirt road, those of us sitting on top were able to peer through the trees at the sublime West African landscape."

This essay got the student accepted at Columbia, Cornell, Yale, Stanford, Duke, Mount Sinai and Harvard. But I don't understand. It's BAD WRITING. The opening sentence has 6 adjectives and and at least one unnecessary adverb. If someone sent this in to the newsletter that I edit, I would cut the whole sentence out. If you sent that into a publisher, he wouldn't even finish reading the first sentence before putting it in the reject pile.

Are these essays really supposed to be florid exercises in purple prose?
Click to expand...

Your personality comes through your writing. Just write who you are with your best qualities coming through.

I think being short and concise is fine as long as you demonstrate your passion still. In the end, be who you are and if the adcoms don't like it, say "thanks" and move on and become the best doctor they ever turned down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
BennieBlanco said:
Your personality comes through your writing. Just write who you are with your best qualities coming through.

I think being short and concise is fine as long as you demonstrate your passion still. In the end, be who you are and if the adcoms don't like it, say "thanks" and move on and become the best doctor they ever turned down.
Click to expand...

90% of these essays seem to start in the middle of some dramatic scene. This is a literary device used occasionally by good novelists and used very heavily by fifth-rate writers to add tension to their writing. Do adcomms find this format to be familiar and comforting or cloying and cheezy?

Were I an adcomm, the essay writers would start out with 2 strikes against them for using this unoriginal technique. But maybe the adcomms of Harvard, Yale, Cornell.... don't feel this way. If this is a good format, then my first sentence has already written itself.
 
I read one of those "Essays That Worked" books a couple of years ago. what I recall is that most of the essays were quite poorly written, but they did do a good job of communicating the writers' motivations for wanting to become doctors.

my advice is to stay away from those books and just write. as a career-changer, those sample essays aren't going to be of much use to you since most of them seem to have been written by "traditional" applicants. in your essay, you need to focus on why you are making the change from X to medicine and you need to draw parallels between the two careers and explain why X, though a completely different animal than medicine, has prepared you well for medicine.

I once attended a talk given by the admissions director of my local med school. she said that of late, applicants seemed to have developed a fondness for the cliffhanger in their personal statements - that is, they'd start with a story, pause at a crucial part, then go into their background/motivations/etc., then at the end wrap up the "dramatic" story with which they'd started. she hated this and advised against it. she also told the audience of mostly undergraduate applicants, "we don't expect these statements to be dramatic. most of you haven't done anything interesting in your lives.":laugh:

as a non-traditional applicant, this is where you have a huge advantage, I think. most of us have done more interesting things than the typical applicant, because we have had more time to do interesting things. but don't get flowery and dramatic in your prose; just do a sincere and convincing job of explaining why medicine and why now. that's really all you need.
 
Last edited:
I think my PS is what made the difference between last year and this year (at least to a big degree) and I have to say I was just like you when it came to writing my first personal statement. I am a decent writer and I pulled out all the stops in that one. I even had a friend (professional writer's editor) spend many hours editing my essay. However I think it lacks personality. In my second one I wrote more in the tone with which I speak. I even let a few grammatical issues slide as its really how I talk and fulfilled the tone I was looking for. I think an essay that is written the way you would talk is better than one written with novelist like proficiency. If you put the two next to each other its like two completely different people wrote them. I'm much more pleased with my second one than the first.

I agree those are extremely cheesy, extremely. However, you need to write with passion and if that is telling a story thats ok. Applicants aren't expected to be great novelist, so using that literary device is acceptable as long as it hold true to who you are. Stories are often the best way to communicate (and show proof of) hard to quantify characteristics like passion, compassion, etc.
 
kia ora said:
I once attended a talk given by the admissions director of my local med school. she said that of late, applicants seemed to have developed a fondness for the cliffhanger in their personal statements - that is, they'd start with a story, pause at a crucial part, then go into their background/motivations/etc., then at the end wrap up the "dramatic" story with which they'd started. she hated this and advised against it. she also told the audience of mostly undergraduate applicants, "we don't expect these statements to be dramatic. most of you haven't done anything interesting in your lives.":laugh:
Click to expand...

Thank you, Kia. You saved me from falling for it. It is too easy to commit literature and believe that you have written well. Apparently, the adcomms looked past the style and found the person behind the writing.

As I said, anyone can write the first sentence of one of these essays. Mine could start, "I nailed the last piece of cardboard around the space in the abandoned lumberyard that I had marked as my 'home'." But I was afraid that this start was stylish without the originality that true style should have - like a leisure suit or a print shirt with a solid collar.

I think I'll stick with a traditional format. Class instead of style. Something more along the line of a speech by a solidly competent politician. Then I'll try to make sure that the content is interesting, rather than the writing.

Years ago Patrick McManus wrote this phrase in one of his short stories. "... splashing through shallow puddles of sunlight." An english professor later complimented him on the phrase and he was immediately ashamed. He had called attention to his writing rather than to the content of his story.
 
It's your game so talk it. I don't know if I talked a good one or not. Maybe I used some novice devices. But I don't think that matters as much as having connected with a reader. Despite your weaknesses as a writer. Much as it will be when your in the exam room with patients. Honesty and benevolence for them is what counts.

I agree with Kia ora that we have an advantage in the personal statement/life experience category. But with 5300 characters this also becomes a trickier task. The choices become complex. That's why it's more important to let your personality come through. But if you can do that like a master short story writer or essayist then you will have a serious advantage.

Therefore the sea of cheeze wiz out there will only serve to accentuate your talents. If you think there's too much crap out there put your pen and balls on the line to do better. How ever you see fit to do better.

But for now keep in mind, it looks a lot easier from the bleachers. Even with your experience as an editor.
 
EdLongshanks said:
90% of these essays seem to start in the middle of some dramatic scene. This is a literary device used occasionally by good novelists and used very heavily by fifth-rate writers to add tension to their writing. Do adcomms find this format to be familiar and comforting or cloying and cheezy?

Were I an adcomm, the essay writers would start out with 2 strikes against them for using this unoriginal technique. But maybe the adcomms of Harvard, Yale, Cornell.... don't feel this way. If this is a good format, then my first sentence has already written itself.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for any other adcom, but I find the examples you cited cloying and cheesy. I especially hate reading any essay that starts out talking about "volunteering vacations," sirens blaring, or broad statements about wanting to be a doctor because you love the human body and you want to help people, but without any specific examples to back them up. Many essays are painful to read because they sound exactly like every other essay. When you've read several hundred of them, you reach a point where you're like, ok, someone has to have something different to say! Just tell me who you are, where you're coming from, and why you want to come here. But don't write your whole freaking autobiography. Make a cogent argument that I can understand in terms of explaining your career decision to me.

On the too-rare occasions when someone writes a really stellar essay, it helps the applicant stand out tremendously. There is a current first year at my school whose PS was a very large factor in their getting accepted. Even though this person's stats were all significantly below our school's averages, the adcom was pretty much unanimous about wanting to try to get this person to come here.
 
QofQuimica said:
I can't speak for any other adcom, but I find the examples you cited cloying and cheesy. I especially hate reading any essay that starts out talking about "volunteering vacations," sirens blaring, or broad statements about wanting to be a doctor because you love the human body and you want to help people, but without any specific examples to back them up. Many essays are painful to read because they sound exactly like every other essay. When you've read several hundred of them, you reach a point where you're like, ok, someone has to have something different to say! Just tell me who you are, where you're coming from, and why you want to come here. But don't write your whole freaking autobiography. Make a cogent argument that I can understand in terms of explaining your career decision to me.

On the too-rare occasions when someone writes a really stellar essay, it helps the applicant stand out tremendously. There is a current first year at my school whose PS was a very large factor in their getting accepted. Even though this person's stats were all significantly below our school's averages, the adcom was pretty much unanimous about wanting to try to get this person to come here.
Click to expand...

So. You didn't like my autobiography. That hurts Q.

But so I can learn from my mistakes and so that the OP's query can be addressed to fullest: What were the characteristics of the individual's essay that caused such a unanimous desire for the candidate?

If you would ma'am.
 
QofQuimica said:
I can't speak for any other adcom, but I find the examples you cited cloying and cheesy. I especially hate reading any essay that starts out talking about "volunteering vacations," sirens blaring, or broad statements about wanting to be a doctor because you love the human body and you want to help people, but without any specific examples to back them up.
Click to expand...

Good, I can trust my instincts then. I just needed confirmation that my gut is still a faithful guide.
 
Yes, Q, please dish on what made that applicant stand out. We've all read those books about essays that "stand out". Speaking for myself, they depressed me to no end. I was like, "has every other premed in the world but me held dying HIV-positive babies in Africa?!?!?"

I took two writing classes as an undergrad: tech writing and proposal/grant writing. Both of the instructors were professional writers who somehow gravitated toward writing technical/scientific documents. Both of them told me that the sign of a really good writer was the ability to convey a lot of information as concisely as possible. This is true for science writing in particular, but also true for writing in general.

You don't have a whole lot of space on your personal essay to stand out and expound on your motivations for pursuing medicine--especially if you have a lot to say. Every space, every punctuation mark counts. I'm old-school and am in the habit of two spaces after a period, but on my essay I only put one space after each sentence. Don't waste your precious character count on trying to create a dramatic scene in painstaking detail. Besides, those types of essays remind me of those "worst writing in the world" contests.

In my most recent essay I had enough room to expound on two things that motivated me to tread this path. I think my essay was okay--even though I talked about several other things, these two issues were intriguing enough for the interviewers to ask me to talk in depth about them. Enough was said to make it interesting, but I still had enough to talk about during the interview. However, if I tried to create drama a la The Cheesy Essay, I wouldn't have had enough space to really discuss a single issue.
 
Nasrudin said:
So. You didn't like my autobiography. That hurts Q.

But so I can learn from my mistakes and so that the OP's query can be addressed to fullest: What were the characteristics of the individual's essay that caused such a unanimous desire for the candidate?

If you would ma'am.
Click to expand...
Yours was the exception, Nas. ;)

All kidding aside, there is nothing wrong with discussing events from your life that are relevant to your decision to go to medical school. In fact, you should do that. But some people go quite a bit too far. I don't need (or want) a laundry list of disconnected examples from your early childhood to the volunteering you started doing last month. Focus and synthesis is appreciated here. Pick a theme for your essay, develop your essay with one or two (ok, maybe three, but no more!) examples that illustrate that theme, and most important of all, show some self-reflection. I guess the best advice I can give to those of you who are about to apply is to please not try to guess what the adcom wants to hear. Don't do it on your PS, don't do it on your secondaries, and *especially* don't do it during your interviews. In my experience, most people aren't very good guessers, and you might achieve the opposite of what you want to achieve if your essay is shallow as a puddle.

As for what this person did that was so outstanding....well, the specifics aren't something that anyone else could ever duplicate, but I'll try to explain in a general sense. First, it was a very honest and personal essay. Its tone was positive, not negative or apologetic. It showed some depth to this person's character and helped us get to know them. Not just some laundry list of things they did, not just some sweeping statements about loving science and helping people, but the real them. It was reflective. I didn't even meet this person on their interview day, but I felt like I knew them on some level. At the second look several months later, I went out of my way to introduce myself to that applicant and tell them that we really hoped they would come here. *That* is the kind of impression every applicant should strive to make with their essay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Q,

I just noticed that I made a typo in the title to this thread. Arrrggh. And in a thread dedicated to good writing!!!!

Would you mind editing the title to "Are Personal Statements Really That Cheezy?"
 
EdLongshanks said:
Q,

I just noticed that I made a typo in the title to this thread. Arrrggh. And in a thread dedicated to good writing!!!!

Would you mind editing the title to "Are Personal Statements Really That Cheezy?"
Click to expand...
I had noticed that before, but I resisted the urge to correct it....as I have to resist the urge to correct every thread title with a typo that I see. Perfectionist much? :smuggrin:
 
QofQuimica said:
I had noticed that before, but I resisted the urge to correct it....as I have to resist the urge to correct every thread title with a typo that I see. Perfectionist much? :smuggrin:
Click to expand...

When you in the middle of a surgery, do you have to resist a need to fix all of the little congenital folds and plaquas?

Too bad "Monk" is off the air. You've lost a companion :)
 
Yes, I'd say >90% of PS's are that bad. Mine was pretty cringe-worthy and probably contained 90% of the cliches that everyone's just mentioned. It really is such a painful thing to write and probably almost as painful to read.

Q, I don't know how you do it. Trust me, if I had applied to your school, you'd have lost all respect for me once you read my lame essays.

I'm dreading having to do it again in 2 years.
 
EdLongshanks said:
Here's another example, "As the rusted-out Land Rover made its way cautiously through dense thicket and crevices in the rocky dirt road, those of us sitting on top were able to peer through the trees at the sublime West African landscape."

This essay got the student accepted at Columbia, Cornell, Yale, Stanford, Duke, Mount Sinai and Harvard. But I don't understand. It's BAD WRITING. The opening sentence has 6 adjectives and and at least one unnecessary adverb. If someone sent this in to the newsletter that I edit, I would cut the whole sentence out. If you sent that into a publisher, he wouldn't even finish reading the first sentence before putting it in the reject pile.

Are these essays really supposed to be florid exercises in purple prose?
Click to expand...


I read that book and those statements as well. They caused me an immeasurable amount of grief when I was crafting my PS. I think that those essay should be a very rough guideline on what your statement should be or not be like. Most medical students are typical and have a very hard time standing out. Generally, vignettes work better for them. If you have a unique life story, you do not need to write like them. Also, those statements were not reviewed for their prose. Most, if not all of the featured writers went to IVY league schools. They had excellent GPAs and very good MCATS. I doubt that their statements made that much of a difference in their being accepted.

I am way beyond a non-traditional student. I attended a community college for six years, during which I received five F's. I lacked clinical experience. My overall GPA was not stellar and my MCAT was average, yet I received 16 interviews out of the 21 schools I applied to. I have been accepted to 7 and have yet to be wait-listed. I believe that my success is mostly due to my personal statement. If you are having difficulties writing yours, I will be glad to forward you a copy of mine. Just PM me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I haven't applied yet but I have a rough draft of my PS. I've let a few people read it who I thought would be unbiased (i.e. no family members as of yet-old coworker that was an English major, specialist I shadowed, professor who is sort of a mentor, Hollywood screenwriter friend, etc.).

They all had minor suggestions that seemed helpful - what to cut, what to expand on that wouldn't have occurred to me. One of the biggest things that helped in making the rough draft before handing it out to readers though was writing it, putting in a drawer for a few months, then taking it back out and rewriting it.

The main consensus reached was avoid cliches, and I think the biggest ones are probably, "I've always been interested in the combination of art and science" "I want to help people" "I'm fascinated with the human body" etc. Mine is still a work in progress.

If you want to help people and you're fascinated with the human body, why don't you become a masseuse? That's probably easier than getting into medical school (not to belittle massage as a career, I've definitely enjoyed the massages I've gotten, usually after races).

The biggest thing for nontrads as Kia said is it's a good idea to at address the "why medicine, why now?" question, especially the more removed you are from undergrad/more you are non-traditional.
 
I found this in the SDN article about Interview pitfalls

"'Trying too hard to "stand out" or "be distinctive.'
Applicants are always concerned about standing out from the crowd. "What can I say that will make me different than everyone else?" "What can I do that will be unique?" First of all, you cannot change who you are on your medical school interview day. Most interviews are somewhat biographical so your experiences are what they are. I find that when applicants try too hard to be "different," they often undermine their own success. Medical schools are not evaluating you on your distinctiveness, per se; they are trying to assess your motivation for a career in medicine, intelligence, communication skills and level of compassion, among other qualities. Sure, candidates who have accomplished something truly unusual are evaluated differently, but these candidates are the exception. Ironically, applicants who exude confidence, enthusiasm and authenticity and who are "comfortable in their own skin" are often the individuals who stand out. So, be yourself. A seasoned interviewer can sniff out insincerity. Trying to be someone or something that you are not will inevitably negatively impact your performance and your interviewer's evaluation."

I think a lot of what's said here can be applied with PS's. I do think people obsess to much on trying to impress rather than express. I'm not an adcom so I can't speak to their mindset except in speculation, but I think authenticity and sincerity can often be more key than trying to knock their socks off. I always approached PS's not with the goal of having the reader think "WOW!" but "You know, I'd really like to meet this guy." - That being said my PS was still uber cringe-worthy.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
naijaboi said:
I am way beyond a non-traditional student. I attended a community college for six years, during which I received five F's. I lacked clinical experience. My overall GPA was not stellar and my MCAT was average, yet I received 16 interviews out of the 21 schools I applied to. I have been accepted to 7 and have yet to be wait-listed. I believe that my success is mostly due to my personal statement. If you are having difficulties writing yours, I will be glad to forward you a copy of mine. Just PM me.
Click to expand...

I just read naijaboi's PS. Wow, and Wow, and wow. It would make a competitive cover inquiry letter to a publisher of biographies. In fact, I will buy his biography if it is ever published. I had tears in my eyes from the first paragraph. I tried to read it to my wife and got choked up.

But he has none of the cloying puffery of the letters suggested by the books. I'm coming to the conclusion that they are not only useless, but counter-productive.

Naijaboi, would you mind posting the first 2 sentences of your PS for others to read. Those are the ones that set the tone for all of the rest.
 
Last edited:
EdLongshanks said:
I just read naijaboi's PS. Wow, and Wow, and wow. It would make a competitive cover inquiry letter to a publisher of biographies. In fact, I will buy his biography if it is ever published. I had tears in my eyes from the first paragraph. I tried to read it to my wife and got choked up.

But he has none of the cloying puffery of the letters suggested by the books. I'm coming to the conclusion that they are not only useless, but counter-productive.

Naijaboi, would you mind posting the first 2 sentences of your PS for others to read. Those are the ones that set the tone for all of the rest.
Click to expand...

Thanks Edlongshanks.

Here are the first two sentences of my PS.

My mother passed away days after I was born. In the tradition of our family, my grandparents discarded my given name in favor of "Afamefuna" meaning "My name will not be lost."
 
naijaboi said:
Thanks Edlongshanks.

Here are the first two sentences of my PS.

My mother passed away days after I was born. In the tradition of our family, my grandparents discarded my given name in favor of "Afamefuna" meaning "My name will not be lost."
Click to expand...

There are so many things that I like about those two sentences.

1) As an editor - THERE ARE NO ADJECTIVES OR UNNECESSARY ADVERBS. Sorry for shouting. Da Vinci didn't use flourescent paint on the Mona Lisa.

2) As a biblical scholar - Meaningful names are interesting and that name, that name, oh that name....

3) As a human being - I want this guy to succeed so that he can bring honor to this name.
 
As a former adcom member...

Most applicants are accepted for reasons other than their personal statements. Most "successful" personal statements are average and some are not good at all.

Just because an applicant was accepted to a bunch of big-name schools doesn't mean their personal statement is worth emulating.

Most personal statements are overdramatized and cliche-ridden, or just dry. If you have had an interesting life, tell your story simply in a readable way. If your life is less interesting, that's cool, just explain what a career in medicine means to you honestly and realistically.
 
nontradfogie said:
"'Trying too hard to “stand out” or “be distinctive.'
Applicants are always concerned about standing out from the crowd. “What can I say that will make me different than everyone else?” “What can I do that will be unique?” First of all, you cannot change who you are on your medical school interview day. Most interviews are somewhat biographical so your experiences are what they are. I find that when applicants try too hard to be “different,” they often undermine their own success. Medical schools are not evaluating you on your distinctiveness, per se; they are trying to assess your motivation for a career in medicine, intelligence, communication skills and level of compassion, among other qualities. Sure, candidates who have accomplished something truly unusual are evaluated differently, but these candidates are the exception. Ironically, applicants who exude confidence, enthusiasm and authenticity and who are “comfortable in their own skin” are often the individuals who stand out. So, be yourself. A seasoned interviewer can sniff out insincerity. Trying to be someone or something that you are not will inevitably negatively impact your performance and your interviewer’s evaluation."
Click to expand...

:prof: Everyone learn from this
 
You can probably stand out by fitting in. Some people have more interesting life experiences that are simply more compelling than others. I think most nontrads have a leg up in that aspect - if you are older than the typical 21/22 y/o applicant (not to say some 21/22 y/o have not had some incredible life experience, some do, but most don't), you should have some valuable experience or things you have done that you can relate in an honest way that shows how you're a good fit for medicine because of what you have shown, the way you have lived your life, and what you have done with your time.
 
nontradfogie said:
I found this in the SDN article about Interview pitfalls

"'Trying too hard to “stand out” or “be distinctive.'
Applicants are always concerned about standing out from the crowd. “What can I say that will make me different than everyone else?” “What can I do that will be unique?” First of all, you cannot change who you are on your medical school interview day. Most interviews are somewhat biographical so your experiences are what they are. I find that when applicants try too hard to be “different,” they often undermine their own success. Medical schools are not evaluating you on your distinctiveness, per se; they are trying to assess your motivation for a career in medicine, intelligence, communication skills and level of compassion, among other qualities. Sure, candidates who have accomplished something truly unusual are evaluated differently, but these candidates are the exception. Ironically, applicants who exude confidence, enthusiasm and authenticity and who are “comfortable in their own skin” are often the individuals who stand out. So, be yourself. A seasoned interviewer can sniff out insincerity. Trying to be someone or something that you are not will inevitably negatively impact your performance and your interviewer’s evaluation."

I think a lot of what's said here can be applied with PS's. I do think people obsess to much on trying to impress rather than express. I'm not an adcom so I can't speak to their mindset except in speculation, but I think authenticity and sincerity can often be more key than trying to knock their socks off. I always approached PS's not with the goal of having the reader think "WOW!" but "You know, I'd really like to meet this guy." - That being said my PS was still uber cringe-worthy.
Click to expand...
Honesty and sincerity are exactly what I was trying to get at in my previous post. I agree with all of this, except I'm not sure if I can agree with the last sentence since I haven't seen your PS. :p

naijaboi said:
I believe that my success is mostly due to my personal statement.
Click to expand...
I'm sure your success is in part due to your PS telling a compelling story. However, in spite of your claims of "averageness," you clearly have a lot of other things going for you in every single category that an adcom evaluates. Just from reading your MDapps, I see that you have a competitive, perfectly-balanced MCAT score. Don't buy the SDN hype--far from being "average," a 33 is *significantly* above average. In fact, your score ranks in the top 10% of all test-takers. You also have stellar post-CC grades, and you are disadvantaged/URM. You have three years of research experience, which would be more than enough to make you competitive for an MD/PhD program. You are involved with activities that help others, like the ESL and other tutoring. Based on your success at getting interviews and acceptances, I think it's safe to say that you also had stellar LORs and that you interview well.

My friend, many applicants could only wish they were able to achieve your level of being "average." ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Not to sound cheesy, but I'd say write from your heart. Communicate clearly why you want to be a doctor. If you are honest with yourself, your essay should shine with your motivation and personality.
 
vanslix said:
Not to sound cheesy, but I'd say write from your heart. Communicate clearly why you want to be a doctor. If you are honest with yourself, your essay should shine with your motivation and personality.
Click to expand...

I've got my second draft done, taking the advice in this thread very much to heart, and I'm reasonably pleased with it. I'm going to come back to it after a few weeks and clean up some awkward transitions, but otherwise, I think it will work.

Thank you all for your help.
 
Chessy is as chessy does. Different types of writing call for various styles. If you were a literature major and one of your prize reference books at home is the Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry and Poetics, and if you bend in a right-brained, creative fashion, then yes, that may be the right approach for you.

Technical writing and business writing is different from other kinds of writing, period.

This is simple. Use the style that works best for you. Yes your audience is an ADCOM, but that adcom wants to taste what is authentic and real from and for you.

After that, be open-minded to the fact that this more right-brained approach may work well for others but not for you. Does it ring true for you?

Also keep in mind that the ADCOMs are looking at THE WHOLE ENCHILADA, i.e., the student's whole application package and interview. Many times, they will be able to tell upon further evaluation if such a style is authentic to the individual.

So do your thing.
 
Last edited:
jl lin said:
Chessy is as chessy does. Different types of writing call for various styles. If you were a literature major and one of your prize reference books at home is the Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry and Poetics, and if you bend in a right-brained, creative fashion, then yes, that may be the right approach for you.
Click to expand...

If I had a degree as a literature major and still wrote like that, I'd sue the school for malpractice.
 
jl lin said:
Technical writing and business writing is different from other kinds of writing, period.

This is simple. Use the style that works best for you. Yes your audience is an ADCOM, but that adcom wants to taste what is authentic and real from and for you.
Click to expand...

Every genre of writing is different because the target audience and the objective is different. That goes without saying.

However, tech/science writing is a lot more difficult than you might think because you need to be clear, concise and interesting. You want to state your point, but you don't want your audience's eyes to glaze over, either.

One thing that I find I have in common with most of the doctors I have spoken to is this: if I am in a conversation with someone who tends to go off on tangents and takes forever to get to the point, I start to get impatient. Mentally, I'm tapping my foot and saying, "yeah, yeah, yeah, get to the point already."

If you compare a well-written journal article with a poorly-written one, the first article will leave you saying "Wow! How cool is that! Maybe I could use that in my research!" The second article will make you cry as you read it for the 3rd time trying to figure out what exactly they did.

I think it's safe to say that adcoms have had enough of the flowery prose and are energized to read something that, while free of unnecessary fluff, still makes a compelling read and conveys an interesting person. It's not as easy as it seems due to the space constraints. I think it could potentially be harder for a non-trad since we, generally speaking, have had so many life-shaping experiences and could possibly have trouble paring down the essay to the essentials. This is where good science writing skills come to play--in editing your life story down to a concise and compelling short essay.

Good luck, Ed!
 
EdLongshanks,

i was actually thinking about borrowing that book form my local library that has it...do you think its worth reading? or is it pretty much the same and would be a waste? I didnt read through the whole thread but seems like a lot of different opinions.
 
EyEnStein 07 said:
EdLongshanks,

i was actually thinking about borrowing that book form my local library that has it...do you think its worth reading? or is it pretty much the same and would be a waste? I didnt read through the whole thread but seems like a lot of different opinions.
Click to expand...

I bought the book used from Amazon for $5 and wasted my money. I think the consensus of the thread is that the letters in the book should not be emulated. Even though the letter writers were accepted into Ivy League schools, the letters were not signficant additions to their applications.

My study of the subject comes up with these conclusions.

1) The purpose of the PS is two fold. Firstly, to answer the question "Why Medicine" and, secondly, to provide interesting topics for the interviewer to explore during the interview. It is, effectively, the opening statement of the interview.

2) It can have any format, but two successful formats are loose biographical and topical. In either case, the details need to have a theme and a purpose which is tied up in the conclusion, just like any other essay.

3) Don't use the cliff-hanger technique that is so popular.

"As my friend's arterial blood splurted between my fingers, I realized the importance of medical help. But this wasn't the first time that I had seen medical needs."

"The respirator gurgled softly in the background as my mother struggled for her life. There were so many people involved in my mothers health, and I wanted to be one of them."
 
Last edited:
EdLongshanks said:
I bought the book used from Amazon for $5 and wasted my money. I think the consensus of the thread is that the letters in the book should not be emulated. Even though the letter writers were accepted into Ivy League schools, the letters were not signficant additions to their applications.

My study of the subject comes up with these conclusions.

1) The purpose of the PS is two fold. Firstly, to answer the question "Why Medicine" and, secondly, to provide interesting topics for the interviewer to explore during the interview. It is, effectively, the opening statement of the interview.

2) It can have any format, but two successful formats are loose biographical and topical. In either case, the details need to have a theme and a purpose which is tied up in the conclusion, just like any other essay.

3) Don't use the cliff-hanger technique that is so popular.

"As the my friend's arterial blood splurted between my fingers, I realized the importance of medical help. But this wasn't the first time that I had seen medical needs."

"The respirator gurgled softly in the background as my mother struggled for her life. Their were so many people involved in my mothers health, and I wanted to be one of them."
Click to expand...

A: Amen, brother. Except I bought mine @ full-price. Dumb!

B: Don't forget all the gems about holding HIV+ babies in war-torn Africa. "As I held the tiny, innocent babe in my arms, covered in the dust of the land of my forefathers, I knew I had to make a difference."

Although I have to say, my PS was rather cheesy, now that I think about it. Minimally cheesy (I hope), but...oh, well. What's done is done.
 
jinx520 said:
Every genre of writing is different because the target audience and the objective is different. That goes without saying.
Click to expand...

I agree with that. But some people think that artistic writing is flowery - full of adjectives and adverbs. It isn't. I think that most writers would list EB White as perhaps the best writer of the 20th century. He was a poet and his prose shows his poetic ability. But note the first line of "Charlotte's Web". "Where's Papa going with that ax?"

EB White co-wrote Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style" which remains the definitive book on writing. Professor Strunk called it his "Little Book" with a proud emphasis on "Little." His theme is "Omit Needless Words"

One of the most sentimental books ever written was "Little Women" Here is its first line. "Christmas won't be Christmas without any presents."

Even Dicken's long-winded introduction to "A Tale of Two Cities" is spare in adjectives: "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times; it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness; it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity; it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness; it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair; we had everything before us, we had nothing before us; we were all going directly to Heaven, we were all going the other way."

Ok, I'm on a soapbox. Dismounting with effort.
 
I'd cosign Ed on "The Elements of Style" by Strunk & White. It's little, silver, less than $15 new, and a good review when it comes down to editing your PS.
 
jinx520 said:
Every genre of writing is different because the target audience and the objective is different. That goes without saying.

However, tech/science writing is a lot more difficult than you might think because you need to be clear, concise and interesting. You want to state your point, but you don't want your audience's eyes to glaze over, either.

One thing that I find I have in common with most of the doctors I have spoken to is this: if I am in a conversation with someone who tends to go off on tangents and takes forever to get to the point, I start to get impatient. Mentally, I'm tapping my foot and saying, "yeah, yeah, yeah, get to the point already."

If you compare a well-written journal article with a poorly-written one, the first article will leave you saying "Wow! How cool is that! Maybe I could use that in my research!" The second article will make you cry as you read it for the 3rd time trying to figure out what exactly they did.

I think it's safe to say that adcoms have had enough of the flowery prose and are energized to read something that, while free of unnecessary fluff, still makes a compelling read and conveys an interesting person. It's not as easy as it seems due to the space constraints. I think it could potentially be harder for a non-trad since we, generally speaking, have had so many life-shaping experiences and could possibly have trouble paring down the essay to the essentials. This is where good science writing skills come to play--in editing your life story down to a concise and compelling short essay. !
Click to expand...


Good points, to a degree. One thing is not the other. Documenting notes in a chart or the like is not at all the same thing.
Creative writing requires drawing with words, creating a picture. It may or may not be appropriate. It depends.

Authenticity and impact is what can make a difference. The style will vary depending upon the individual.

Still comes down to what works for the individual. Either way, it would have to be balanced and believable, period.

So, like I said, do what works for you. Everyone is different.

There are people that hate Hemmingway or Lewis or Dickens or Tolstoy or Dostoevsky or you name it. Styles and the ability to appreciate will vary. What makes the difference overall is if it comes off as genuine.

How boring this world would be if everyone wrote, spoke, and thought exactly the same way?
Sheesh, if every composer formed every musical piece the same way---Oy. . .

Hmmm. . .imagine what the discussion boards online would be like. . . .Stepford wife coffee klatches. Egads.

BTW, there are those in writing that have many issues with Stunk and White's EOS. Some professors absolutely refuse to use it.

What is considered as "good" is often relative. It is much like making a determination as to what is "good" music. What meets certain classical elements is probably as far as anyone can go in any truly objective sense.
 
jl lin said:
Good points, to a degree. One thing is not the other. Documenting notes in a chart or the like is not at all the same thing.
Creative writing requires drawing with words, creating a picture. It may or may not be appropriate. It depends.

Authenticity and impact is what can make a difference. The style will vary depending upon the individual.

Still comes down to what works for the individual. Either way, it would have to be balanced and believable, period.

So, like I said, do what works for you. Everyone is different.

There are people that hate Hemmingway or Lewis or Dickens or Tolstoy or Dostoevsky or you name it. Styles and the ability to appreciate will vary. What makes the difference overall is if it comes off as genuine.

How boring this world would be if everyone wrote, spoke, and thought exactly the same way?
Sheesh, if every composer formed every musical piece the same way---Oy. . .

Hmmm. . .imagine what the discussion boards online would be like. . . .Stepford wife coffee klatches. Egads.

BTW, there are those in writing that have many issues with Stunk and White's EOS. Some professors absolutely refuse to use it.

What is considered as "good" is often relative. It is much like making a determination as to what is "good" music. What meets certain classical elements is probably as far as anyone can go in any truly objective sense.
Click to expand...

Two of the most valuable classes I took as an undergrad were Critical Thinking and Technical Writing. Both of them laid down foundations for clarifying my thought processes in ways that I never anticipated, yet used in almost every class that I took since.

My whole point is this: tech/science writing is NOT just about documenting notes in a chart. It's almost an art form unto itself. You are still drawing with words, creating a picture, only the picture you are drawing is how to replicate your experiment (or how to assemble your kid's bike, etc.) Anyone can write down what they did in an experiment, but to do it WELL takes a lot of skill. You need to know exactly what you want to say, and say it in a way that will resonate with your intended audience. And say that, and no more. It's this skill set that I'm talking about, and it can be applied to whatever style of writing you are attempting.

The whole reason I brought up science writing in the first place is because, due to the character limit of the personal statement, every word has to serve a purpose. You don't really have the luxury of creating a vibrant tapestry of words to illustrate who you are. You really need to apply a laser-like focus and consider the questions that are being asked in the personal statement/secondary essay. Generally, they are: 1) why do you want to be a physician? and 2) how did your life experiences shape your choice to pursue a career in medicine?

I agree with trying to give the reader a sense of your own individuality, to a certain extent; but if I did that wholeheartedly my PS would have looked like something the girl in Legally Blonde would do. All wrapped up in glittery Winnie-the-Pooh stickers and pink marabou. NOT a good idea.
 
jl lin said:
Chessy is as chessy does. Different types of writing call for various styles. If you were a literature major and one of your prize reference books at home is the Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry and Poetics, and if you bend in a right-brained, creative fashion, then yes, that may be the right approach for you.

Technical writing and business writing is different from other kinds of writing, period.

This is simple. Use the style that works best for you. Yes your audience is an ADCOM, but that adcom wants to taste what is authentic and real from and for you.

After that, be open-minded to the fact that this more right-brained approach may work well for others but not for you. Does it ring true for you?

Also keep in mind that the ADCOMs are looking at THE WHOLE ENCHILADA, i.e., the student's whole application package and interview. Many times, they will be able to tell upon further evaluation if such a style is authentic to the individual.

So do your thing.
Click to expand...
While you want your essay to be authentic and true to yourself, you also don't want an adcom to read your PS and walk away with the reaction of, "WTF was that?"

jl lin, I mean this in the most constructive way possible, but you should really give some serious thought to making your own writing more concise. Specifically, I hope you will not write your PS in the same style (or length!) as you write many of your posts on SDN. I have to confess that I usually read the first couple of sentences of your lengthier posts and then move on to the next post. Obviously, no one puts as much effort into writing a post on SDN as they would into writing a PS, and I tend to be on the wordier side myself. :oops: But it's very important for your PS to be organized, logical, and succinct. You'll be much better off if your essay is less original but readable than if it's very original but incomprehensible.

All of us need to keep in mind that medicine is a conservative profession. There is not a lot of room or tolerance for "doing your thing." Once you start your medical training, you will be spending much of your time doing *their* thing. If you consider that the repercussions of experimenting with new ideas in medicine can be very serious, then the logic behind the conservatism is understandable, even if it's sometimes more stifling than we might like.
 
jinx520 said:
My whole point is this: tech/science writing is NOT just about documenting notes in a chart..
Click to expand...


Understood. I know this well. In fact my school has a program that specializes in that very thing.

My whole point is to be authentic and use whatever style that works best for you and also be accepting to other approaches.

It irks me when people think it's only this way or that. That just isn't so, and it hampers all the powers of various forms of intelligence. We see this with music, literature, art, so many things. Mostly I am not an either or person, and I'm not harshly judgmental necessarily with one approach over the other.

I think what they are really looking for is a sense of honesty and authenticity. Let's face it. Just as your story will not be mine, my chosen approach or style may not be yours as well. That's totally fine.

Do what works for you, and don't worry about what others do. That's really my point. Just b/c something may strike one person one way, understand it may strike another a different way.

And again, adcoms are hopefully looking at the whole picture in the eval process. I'm right and left brain dominant. It just happens to be who I am; so I can see many sides to things. I miss out when I get too rigid in my thinking on any number of things. This has served me well.

But I wish all the best. Again, just be true to you. How can you possibly go wrong with that?
 
Last edited:
QofQuimica said:
While you want your essay to be authentic and true to yourself, you also don't want an adcom to read your PS and walk away with the reaction of, "WTF was that?"
Click to expand...


Interesting that you say that. I actually submitted a PS to people presently on adcoms--also some that were on adcoms in the past. The responses I received from them were overwhelmingly positive. I BS you not. (BTW some of them, and I am NOT kidding about this either, have discussed how totally negative SDN can be at times and to take so much of it with a grain of salt. But that's a given to me anyway.) :)
Same thing w/ my teaching evaluations. They are 99.9% high positive to excellent.


My point was, once more, do what works for you. Be genuine, and don't be so quick to knock down someone else's style or approach.

But Q, thanks for you perspective and input. There are indeed many perspectives to many sides of things. Also, it's easy to stand in eval of others while finding it way more difficult to do so for ourselves.
Still, no, I wouldn't necessarily discount someone's PS simply b/c it used some flowery description. It would really depend on the whole tone and sense of things. I hate snap judgments. ;)
 
Last edited:
jl lin said:
Interesting that you say that. I actually submitted a PS to people presently on adcoms--also some that were on adcoms in the past. The responses I received from them were overwhelmingly positive. I BS you not. (BTW some of them, and I am NOT kidding about this either, have discussed how totally negative SDN can be at times and to take so much of it with a grain of salt. But that's a given to me anyway.) :)
Same thing w/ my teaching evaluations. They are 99.9% high positive to excellent.

My point was, once more, do what works for you. Be genuine, and don't be so quick to knock down someone else's style or approach.

But Q, thanks for you perspective and input. There are indeed many perspectives to many sides of things. Also, it's easy to stand in eval of others while finding it way more difficult to do so for ourselves.
Still, no, I wouldn't necessarily discount someone's PS simply b/c it used some flowery description. It would really depend on the whole tone and sense of things. I hate snap judgments. ;)
Click to expand...
I'm glad the people reading your PS liked it. I never doubted that you *could* write a well laid-out PS if you made the effort--I just wanted to impress its importance upon you so that you hopefully *would* do it. :)

As for the PS tone and sense of things, I agree that it depends on the essay. I also feel like I should point out the obvious, namely that even the phrase "flowery writing" may not mean the same thing to all of us. What exactly would you describe as flowery writing?

To me, the term means that the writer is trying to stick out for the writing itself, not so much to get their ideas across. That's not to say that everyone has to write using simple sentences. More complex styles can work well if the author is skillful enough at writing them, but here are some general categories that I would call flowery "fails":

-trying to reconstitute an entire thesaurus in the essay, especially if some of these 25 cent words are used incorrectly. Although this can be extremely entertaining at times.
-trying to make the essay overdramatic instead of honest, similar to the cliffhanger idea Ed was describing before. I hate these essays the most.
-meandering about here or there, telling stories in great detail without getting to the point (why medicine) until the very end of the essay, or, even worse, never getting to the point at all. While sometimes vaguely interesting, these essays are not very useful in this context.
-making up ridiculous metaphors and similes or otherwise trying to write cleverly in a way that comes across forced and unnatural. I would call this the nadir of flowerly language. ;)
-quoting other people either out of laziness or in an attempt to look smart. The whole point of the essay is to explain "why medicine" in your own words, not in someone else's. If the person who said the original quote wants to go to med school, let them write their own darn essay. :hungover:
 
Last edited:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that anytime you produce a document about yourself, particularly an essay, trying to paint the picture of being the compassionate, empathy-rich individual (especially with some life event or events that suggest you should be a doctor) that it's going to be cheesey.
 
Hey Ed. I'm also writing my personal statement. I'm trying to find a theme that sounds authentic but I guess I'm just suffering from severe writers block. I was wondering if there are any resources out there that would help with structure/framework of a good essay. I really dont want to buy any books online but i will if need be.

Thanks,

-S
 
ArkansasRanger said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that anytime you produce a document about yourself, particularly an essay, trying to paint the picture of being the compassionate, empathy-rich individual (especially with some life event or events that suggest you should be a doctor) that it's going to be cheesey.
Click to expand...

I agree there, but I think the question is do you want the low-fat cheese or the 4-cheese blend, with extra cheese and cheese on the side?
 
jinx520 said:
I agree there, but I think the question is do you want the low-fat cheese or the 4-cheese blend, with extra cheese and cheese on the side?
Click to expand...

Well, if we're talking nachos then definitely the latter.
 
QofQuimica said:
As for the PS tone and sense of things, I agree that it depends on the essay. I also feel like I should point out the obvious, namely that even the phrase "flowery writing" may not mean the same thing to all of us. What exactly would you describe as flowery writing?

To me, the term means that the writer is trying to stick out for the writing itself, not so much to get their ideas across. That's not to say that everyone has to write using simple sentences. More complex styles can work well if the author is skillful enough at writing them, but here are some general categories that I would call flowery "fails":

-trying to reconstitute an entire thesaurus in the essay, especially if some of these 25 cent words are used incorrectly. Although this can be extremely entertaining at times.
-trying to make the essay overdramatic instead of honest, similar to the cliffhanger idea Ed was describing before. I hate these essays the most.
-meandering about here or there, telling stories in great detail without getting to the point (why medicine) until the very end of the essay, or, even worse, never getting to the point at all. While sometimes vaguely interesting, these essays are not very useful in this context.
-making up ridiculous metaphors and similes or otherwise trying to write cleverly in a way that comes across forced and unnatural. I would call this the nadir of flowerly language.
-quoting other people either out of laziness or in an attempt to look smart. The whole point of the essay is to explain "why medicine" in your own words, not in someone else's. If the person who said the original quote wants to go to med school, let them write their own darn essay.
Click to expand...




Q, I am curious. Have you sat on an admission committee? I ask this b/c you have gone into some detail on this.

About the latter person's statement, I've found that people can be judgmental at times about other people and what they presume the person is about in whatever they are saying and writing. People can project in the negative from within themselves. It's the other person or the writer, not perhaps their biased or limited or negative perspective. That's hard, but it's a subjectivity that clouds things. Communication occurs on two ends, even if the onus for the message comes from the sender. Plus there is all kinds of static and other types of interference.

The benefit of sharing in person is that people can sense the non-verbal communication to get a fix on the person's level of sincerity and such. This can be much harder to do in writing. And then there are those that seem to achieve this, but then when you interview them in person, you get a different sense. I guess that is why a multi-tired approach is best in this whole application process. I like to cluster data when I evaluate things. I'm more holistic too in that I try to take in the whole person and define what may be influencing me. If the interview isn't matching up with the PS, I think it will come through. Chessy seems like it's a straightforward kind of thing; but that is not necessary so. That's all I'm saying; hence, chessy is as chessy does. :)

It's kind of like being humorous. I've seen some stuff that could be considered totally corny, yet some people pull it off. It's about delivery I think.


Q, I genuinely appreciate your cerebral, straight-up style.


Hmmm, maybe I'm oversimplifying this whole PS business. I honestly can't see stressing too much over it.

I guess I really do think we can over think writing the PS, at least initially. One thing we try to do with students is to get them to write honest feelings or positions, and they later work on content and other editing.

IMHO no one that is truly a writer does so without editing, editing, and more editing. But people can kill any kind of flow state by having all that pre-editing anxiety. I say go for honest flow and then go back after to cut, edit, re-word. After that you go back at least a dozen more times. When you are done with that, you let others tear it apart only so that you can go through this whole process all over again. LOL It's exhausting and humbling.
:shrug:

What we say up in the NE is the ole, "It is what it is."
 
Last edited:
QofQuimica said:
I'm glad the people reading your PS liked it. I never doubted that you *could* write a well laid-out PS if you made the effort--I just wanted to impress its importance upon you so that you hopefully *would* do it. :)

As for the PS tone and sense of things, I agree that it depends on the essay. I also feel like I should point out the obvious, namely that even the phrase "flowery writing" may not mean the same thing to all of us. What exactly would you describe as flowery writing?

To me, the term means that the writer is trying to stick out for the writing itself, not so much to get their ideas across. That's not to say that everyone has to write using simple sentences. More complex styles can work well if the author is skillful enough at writing them, but here are some general categories that I would call flowery "fails":

-trying to reconstitute an entire thesaurus in the essay, especially if some of these 25 cent words are used incorrectly. Although this can be extremely entertaining at times.
-trying to make the essay overdramatic instead of honest, similar to the cliffhanger idea Ed was describing before. I hate these essays the most.
-meandering about here or there, telling stories in great detail without getting to the point (why medicine) until the very end of the essay, or, even worse, never getting to the point at all. While sometimes vaguely interesting, these essays are not very useful in this context.
-making up ridiculous metaphors and similes or otherwise trying to write cleverly in a way that comes across forced and unnatural. I would call this the nadir of flowerly language. ;)
-quoting other people either out of laziness or in an attempt to look smart. The whole point of the essay is to explain "why medicine" in your own words, not in someone else's. If the person who said the original quote wants to go to med school, let them write their own darn essay. :hungover:
Click to expand...

Well, let's see how's this for an essay? Seriously.

"I want to become a doctor because after working in the medical arena and some serious introspection I've decided that's the career for me."

It's rather simple and matter of fact. I'm not suggesting I'd write that, but it's certainly succinct and lacking in floweriness.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

A
Should you mention mental health in the "Why medicine" personal statement?
Replies
3
Views
799
Med Ed
Med Ed
TheGrand
FNP to MD/DO. Personal Statement help - "Why medicine?"
Replies
9
Views
1K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
Alex Reinard
Retake REALLY OLD Pre-Reqs as Non-Trad in Late 30s?
Replies
8
Views
431
Dral
Dral
S
Anyone ever found themselves really terrible at STEM but can't let go of wanting to be a doctor?
Replies
3
Views
890
eigen
eigen
M
What ECs are expected for non-traditional students? If my ECs are mainly prior to my postbacc, does that harm my application?
Replies
7
Views
2K
Justify2018
Justify2018
Top