PS - how personal is too personal?

[alliegator]

While brainstorming a lot of ideas for my PS, the best I came up with, and the topic that best explains why I want to go into medicine is mental health and disability.

Some of the examples of how mental health has impacted me come from the experiences I've had with a sibling with mental health problems and as a teenager having to be institutionalized for a period of time. Plus a few suicidal friends in HS diagnosed biopolar, but still alive thanks to some medical interventions.

Both of my parents work in the mental health field (one a psychiatrist, the other a mental health lawyer). I have cousins with cerebral palsy. I also worked for a year at a residential home for emotionally disturbed and mentally disabled adolescents. It's been a HUGE part of my life.

The thing is: I don't want to go into mental health!

It is a difficult subject to write about tactfully, and I'm afraid it's not going to say enough about what I want to do as a doctor that is separate from my experiences in mental health.

Given this - should I go for it because it is honest? If so, do I make it personal, mentioning my sibling and other family members? It feels like an uncomfortable way to expose myself without necessarily getting any of the benefits. It may set me apart from other applicants, but maybe in a bad way?

I know I'm not asking anything specific here, but any advice would be welcome, of course.

[blaithnaid]

and I'm afraid it's not going to say enough about what I want to do as a doctor that is separate from my experiences in mental health.

this would be the why not to do this part. and the whole "my fam's got the cray cray"

[BBender716]

You can talk about your friends dealing with mental health problems and your parents working in the field. Do NOT talk about family members or yourself having mental health problems. I know it sounds terrible, but a former adcom member told me that some members take this as a negative and think that it increases the risk that the applicant is currently unstable or has the propensity to be in the future.

I think that's a bit of a leap, but apparently some adcom members think this is justified. So definitely do not play up your direct familial ties or personal ties to mental conditions. FWIW.

[apumic]

Originally Posted by BBender716

You can talk about your friends dealing with mental health problems and your parents working in the field. Do NOT talk about family members or yourself having mental health problems. I know it sounds terrible, but a former adcom member told me that some members take this as a negative and think that it increases the risk that the applicant is currently unstable or has the propensity to be in the future.

I think that's a bit of a leap, but apparently some adcom members think this is justified. So definitely do not play up your direct familial ties or personal ties to mental conditions. FWIW.

I'd say such concerns are justified. OP, you want to remain professional. As long as you establish solid, professional boundaries in your PS, while maintaining appropriate degrees of openness and vulnerability (emphasizing the positive, passionate side), you'll be fine. Discussing your own or family members' mental health problems is definitely poor boundaries. Discussing those of friends may be poor boundaries depending upon what you say. What I would say, though, is that your ability to effectively express yourself and maintain solid boundaries in your PS can tell a reader a lot about you beyond just the regular content of your PS.

[Ok2Panic]

I agree with other replies about not mentioning yourself and your family. I think whatever you write, you have to try and look at it from the point of view of someone who is say, cynical, overworked, lacking in heart, compassion, and empathy. I'm not implying this is what the adcom members are going to be like, but just call it worst case scenario. What are they going to assume about you from your statement if they're not likely to give you the benefit of the doubt and commend your personal triumphs?

[DrSmooth]

I agree with much of what's been said, and had to make a similar call. I had a personal family issue that was the most influential part of me going into medicine, but was also controversial and open to negative interpretation by adcoms. I decided that the PS was too open of a document, being sent to every school I applied to in a primary application, and that it would not be appropriate to share, TMI basically.

However, when completing secondaries it seemed as though some schools, maybe 30% in my case, were looking for an increased level of vulnerability. I decided with these schools to put it out there to see what would happen, being sure to emphasize how the situation had developed compassion, character and "led to my personal growth rather than repeating the destructive patterns of others". Looking back at the schools where I shared, I have seen the same % of interviews as with the schools I didn't. So I am personally glad I shared it when I did, and it was actually healing in a way to still be wanted by those schools even after sharing my background. But this is a very personal decision. I definitely would not have talked about personal psychological issues or anything that reflected negatively on me personally, or made mental health problems the centerpiece of my application. The safest route of course is to not share anything which might be misunderstood. But who wants to be "safe" 100% of the time? Good luck with your decision!

[LizzyM]

Why do you want to be a physician? What do you know about the profession? Why do you think that you'd be good at it? What have you done to develop some of the skills you'll use in medical school or in the practice of medicine (this can be research, social interaction, leadership, languages) What is the down side to a career in medicine? Why do you want to do it anyway?

If you aren't interested in mental health then your family's mental health history shouldn't come up as you answer the questions above and craft your personal statement. (even if you were interested in mental health you might want to be circumspect about other people's health histories).

[BellJS]

With the variability in admissions committees, if something can be interpreted in multiple ways, it will be.

[LizzyM]

Originally Posted by BellJS

With the variability in admissions committees, if something can be interpreted in multiple ways, it will be.

Too true. I recall that some of us were over an applicant who made the theme of a supplemental essay, "my father's incontinence" and others were Be careful with other people's personal information; it can be interpreted as inappropriate and TMI.

[Dianyla]

Originally Posted by DrSmooth

I agree with much of what's been said, and had to make a similar call. I had a personal family issue that was the most influential part of me going into medicine, but was also controversial and open to negative interpretation by adcoms. I decided that the PS was too open of a document, being sent to every school I applied to in a primary application, and that it would not be appropriate to share, TMI basically.

However, when completing secondaries it seemed as though some schools, maybe 30% in my case, were looking for an increased level of vulnerability. I decided with these schools to put it out there to see what would happen, being sure to emphasize how the situation had developed compassion, character and "led to my personal growth rather than repeating the destructive patterns of others". Looking back at the schools where I shared, I have seen the same % of interviews as with the schools I didn't. So I am personally glad I shared it when I did, and it was actually healing in a way to still be wanted by those schools even after sharing my background. But this is a very personal decision. I definitely would not have talked about personal psychological issues or anything that reflected negatively on me personally, or made mental health problems the centerpiece of my application. The safest route of course is to not share anything which might be misunderstood. But who wants to be "safe" 100% of the time? Good luck with your decision!

Thank you for your post. I'm in a similar position and trying to figure out how much is TMI/oversharing vs. very relevant information about the person I am today. You've worded this in a way that really makes sense to me.

[njbmd]

Originally Posted by alliegator

While brainstorming a lot of ideas for my PS, the best I came up with, and the topic that best explains why I want to go into medicine is mental health and disability.

Some of the examples of how mental health has impacted me come from the experiences I've had with a sibling with mental health problems and as a teenager having to be institutionalized for a period of time. Plus a few suicidal friends in HS diagnosed biopolar, but still alive thanks to some medical interventions.

Both of my parents work in the mental health field (one a psychiatrist, the other a mental health lawyer). I have cousins with cerebral palsy. I also worked for a year at a residential home for emotionally disturbed and mentally disabled adolescents. It's been a HUGE part of my life.

The thing is: I don't want to go into mental health!

It is a difficult subject to write about tactfully, and I'm afraid it's not going to say enough about what I want to do as a doctor that is separate from my experiences in mental health.

Given this - should I go for it because it is honest? If so, do I make it personal, mentioning my sibling and other family members? It feels like an uncomfortable way to expose myself without necessarily getting any of the benefits. It may set me apart from other applicants, but maybe in a bad way?

I know I'm not asking anything specific here, but any advice would be welcome, of course.

Put nothing in your personal statement (PS) that could wind up being a negative for you. Your PS is the only part of your application over which you have total control. If you are impressed by your parents work with mental health issues then write about it but leave out the personal stuff (and make the challenged family members seem unrelated to you). You can discuss things in the third person but don't be related to anything that's could be a negative. You have one shot at making this part of your application as positive as possible. Don't screw this up by telling too much (ala Jerry Springer).

[morning]

The thing is pretty much everyone has a relative with health problems. I know when going through family drama it feels like your family is the craziest to ever exist, or your life the most complicated...and that's rarely the case. That sort of PS doesn't set you apart.

[FloatOn]

OP, understand this: there is a very real taboo associated with mental health problems. It's just not viewed the same was as other illnesses/health problems. Someone who has overcome, for example, depression will not get the same reactions and treatment by society as another with a non-mental health problem. Be careful and choose wisely how you present yourself.

[GH253]

Originally Posted by FloatOn

OP, understand this: there is a very real taboo associated with mental health problems. It's just not viewed the same was as other illnesses/health problems. Someone who has overcome, for example, depression will not get the same reactions and treatment by society as another with a non-mental health problem. Be careful and choose wisely how you present yourself.

and they tell people not to fear the stigma

[ambam]

Hi,

I faced much the same issue, only I did share. Not in my PS, which was kept very much "why medicine" but on a few secondaries. I was most open with my first pick school, that I am in interviewing with tomorrow (its also my only interview, but I think that has a lot more to do with my 3.06/3.14 gpa and 29S MCAT).

The question asked was: 3. Describe the most significant challenge you have faced and the steps you have taken to address this challenge.

And my answer:

I suffered from depression and PTSD during my senior year of high school, and after a failed suicide attempt I spent 18 days in an inpatient psychiatric ward. It brought me face to face with a number of problems in my life. I know I must work very hard to maintain my focus and I developed multiple coping skills to assist with ongoing memory problems. I write down everything and set up email reminders to be sent prior to important events. When studying, I review the material multiple times and in as many different formats as possible, sometimes recording myself reading notes to play back later. The problems I experienced in my late teens make much more aware of my emotional state and I am a lot more likely than many of my peers to seek assistance when needed, before a problem becomes overwhelming. I have developed a strong support network of friends and
family. While medical school will be a challenge, it is one I am prepared to face.

I couldn't think of anything that had had a more profound impact on my life than this. I am a healthier person, but it was a hard road to get here. I'm not ashamed of what I went through, but I don't walk around and wave it in strangers faces either. Remember, anything you put in a PS or secondary, can/will be brought up in an interview.

YMMV,

Ambam

[DrSmooth]

Originally Posted by ambam

Hi,

I faced much the same issue, only I did share. Not in my PS, which was kept very much "why medicine" but on a few secondaries. I was most open with my first pick school, that I am in interviewing with tomorrow (its also my only interview, but I think that has a lot more to do with my 3.06/3.14 gpa and 29S MCAT).

The question asked was: 3. Describe the most significant challenge you have faced and the steps you have taken to address this challenge.

And my answer:

I suffered from depression and PTSD during my senior year of high school, and after a failed suicide attempt I spent 18 days in an inpatient psychiatric ward. It brought me face to face with a number of problems in my life. I know I must work very hard to maintain my focus and I developed multiple coping skills to assist with ongoing memory problems. I write down everything and set up email reminders to be sent prior to important events. When studying, I review the material multiple times and in as many different formats as possible, sometimes recording myself reading notes to play back later. The problems I experienced in my late teens make much more aware of my emotional state and I am a lot more likely than many of my peers to seek assistance when needed, before a problem becomes overwhelming. I have developed a strong support network of friends and
family. While medical school will be a challenge, it is one I am prepared to face.

I couldn't think of anything that had had a more profound impact on my life than this. I am a healthier person, but it was a hard road to get here. I'm not ashamed of what I went through, but I don't walk around and wave it in strangers faces either. Remember, anything you put in a PS or secondary, can/will be brought up in an interview.

YMMV,

Ambam

Wow, u have got balls to be that transparent on a secondary, and the school has class to give u an interview. Sounds like whatever happens u have what it takes to accomplish whatever u want. Powerful story, good luck with your interview!

[flip26]

Originally Posted by ambam

The question asked was: 3. Describe the most significant challenge you have faced and the steps you have taken to address this challenge.

Reading this question reminds me...

I sent primaries to around 25 schools. There were a couple of schools with ridiculously invasive questions (worse than this one) that I just never bothered to fill out.

Seems like Pitt had a really bad secondary question. I couldn't think of anything to write, and I refused to "bare my soul" to some freaking adcom, so I punted it.

With all due respect to the person who posted their answer to this question, I would have NEVER written the response you gave, no matter how true it was. To anyone reading this thread who will be facing these kinds of questions next cycle, come up with something different...or do as I did and apply to a bunch of schools that don't ask these stupid questions.

[startswithb]

Originally Posted by flip26

Reading this question reminds me...

I sent primaries to around 25 schools. There were a couple of schools with ridiculously invasive questions (worse than this one) that I just never bothered to fill out.

Seems like Pitt had a really bad secondary question. I couldn't think of anything to write, and I refused to "bare my soul" to some freaking adcom, so I punted it.

With all due respect to the person who posted their answer to this question, I would have NEVER written the response you gave, no matter how true it was. To anyone reading this thread who will be facing these kinds of questions next cycle, come up with something different...or do as I did and apply to a bunch of schools that don't ask these stupid questions.

Pitt asked about facing a "significant moral or ethical dilemma" I believe, and threatened against saying you never have or just addressing academic dishonesty.

I wrote about a close friends getting mixed up in drugs and asking me for money. And with the 250 word allowance, I found it really hard not to sound flippant. How do you tell a story, state dilemma, think about dilemma, then resolve in 250 words?!

[ambam]

Originally Posted by startswithb

Pitt asked about facing a "significant moral or ethical dilemma" I believe, and threatened against saying you never have or just addressing academic dishonesty.

I wrote about a close friends getting mixed up in drugs and asking me for money. And with the 250 word allowance, I found it really hard not to sound flippant. How do you tell a story, state dilemma, think about dilemma, then resolve in 250 words?!

/on smartass

Succinctly?

/off smartass

Ambam

[Morsetlis]

My friend asked me for drug money. The dilemma involved two lemmas: my friend is dear to me, but his request was immoral according to my standards. I resolved this by realizing that I had to uphold my own morals, but I still qualified this action by helping him get therapy for his addiction. This process helped me grow as a person. I am now ready to be a doctor.

70 words.

Well, you can go deeper if you want. Just ask a Psych/Cogsci major to help fix it. They're good at BSing.

[startswithb]

Originally Posted by Morsetlis

My friend asked me for drug money. The dilemma involved two lemmas: my friend is dear to me, but his request was immoral according to my standards. I resolved this by realizing that I had to uphold my own morals, but I still qualified this action by helping him get therapy for his addiction. This process helped me grow as a person. I am now ready to be a doctor.

70 words.

Well, you can go deeper if you want. Just ask a Psych/Cogsci major to help fix it. They're good at BSing.

Haha. "I am now ready to be a doctor." Just shows how little this does to actually determine that.

[DrSmooth]

Originally Posted by flip26

Reading this question reminds me...

I sent primaries to around 25 schools. There were a couple of schools with ridiculously invasive questions (worse than this one) that I just never bothered to fill out.

Seems like Pitt had a really bad secondary question. I couldn't think of anything to write, and I refused to "bare my soul" to some freaking adcom, so I punted it.

With all due respect to the person who posted their answer to this question, I would have NEVER written the response you gave, no matter how true it was. To anyone reading this thread who will be facing these kinds of questions next cycle, come up with something different...or do as I did and apply to a bunch of schools that don't ask these stupid questions.

Flip, when someone shares a personal experience that significantly contributes to the conversation, like ambam did, it is not generally acceptable for someone to crap on it. I think many of us would appreciate it if you tried to contain your caustic and destructive negativity. No doubt you will attack me for trying to establish some boundaries with you, but please, you will be a doctor in four years. Time to grow up.

[flip26]

Originally Posted by DrSmooth

Flip, when someone shares a personal experience that significantly contributes to the conversation, like ambam did, it is not generally acceptable for someone to crap on it. I think many of us would appreciate it if you tried to contain your caustic and destructive negativity. No doubt you will attack me for trying to establish some boundaries with you, but please, you will be a doctor in four years. Time to grow up.

I didn't "crap" on anything - I said that I would have never written such a response. What he did is done; my advice is to future applicants to avoid this trap.

IMO it is risky to write such an intensely personal response (he revealed a suicide attempt and psychiatric hospitalization) in a med school PS or secondary that can be construed as a serious red flag calling into question the applicant's ability to weather the stresses of med school.

Read NJBMD's advice further up in the thread about revealing "too much" in the way of personal info. That is exactly what I am saying, whether you like how I said it or not.

Time for you to grow up.

[DrSmooth]

Originally Posted by flip26

I didn't "crap" on anything - I said that I would have never written such a response. What he did is done; my advice is to future applicants to avoid this trap.

IMO it is risky to write such an intensely personal response (he revealed a suicide attempt and psychiatric hospitalization) in a med school PS or secondary that can be construed as a serious red flag calling into question the applicant's ability to weather the stresses of med school.

Read NJBMD's advice further up in the thread about revealing "too much" in the way of personal info. That is exactly what I am saying, whether you like how I said it or not.

Time for you to grow up.

Flip, in life, when someone makes themselves vulnerable, especially in a way that is constructive to the conversation, it is simply bad form to blast them. And yes, saying "I would NEVER do that and no one else should either" is blasting them. There are lots of ways to share your perspective more constructively. I'm not sure where you did your undergrad, but I'm surprised your friends let you get away with crap like that. Ambam made it clear that she did NOT share that info on her PS but in response to a specific 2ndary question about her "most difficult" life experience. She gave an honest answer to quite an invasive question, and I don't fault her for that, even though I personally would have given a BS answer. And she got an interview so who can say how much is too much? I know everybody has their personal style and that's fine, but for your sake and the sake or your patients I really hope you don't carry that "F' you" attitude into med school and your future practice. I wouldn't normally tell someone that except that I have also born the brunt of your abrasiveness.

[flip26]

Originally Posted by DrSmooth

Flip, in life, when someone makes themselves vulnerable, especially in a way that is constructive to the conversation, it is simply bad form to blast them. And yes, saying "I would NEVER do that and no one else should either" is blasting them. There are lots of ways to share your perspective more constructively. I'm not sure where you did your undergrad, but I'm surprised your friends let you get away with crap like that. Ambam made it clear that she did NOT share that info on her PS but in response to a specific 2ndary question about her "most difficult" life experience. She gave an honest answer to quite an invasive question, and I don't fault her for that, even though I personally would have given a BS answer. And she got an interview so who can say how much is too much? I know everybody has their personal style and that's fine, but for your sake and the sake or your patients I really hope you don't carry that "F' you" attitude into med school and your future practice. I wouldn't normally tell someone that except that I have also born the brunt of your abrasiveness.

You saved the real reason for your umbrage for your last salvo - aww, sorry if I hurt your feelings somewhere along the line, but it really has nothing to do with this thread. If you have a problem with me, send me a PM, but carrying a grudge over from one thread to another is not kosher.

The only thing "constructive" from that person's post is as an example of what not to do. Are you suggesting it was constructive in some other way?

Med school apps should not be used to expose one's vulnerabilities, or to detail intimately personal medical or mental health problems, or to call into question one's emotional steadiness and preparedness for what is an extremely stressful education and career.

If the poster has a problem with anything I wrote, I invite him/her to comment on this thread, or send me a PM...

You have made your point; time for you to move on...and maybe get over whatever it is that is eating at you?

[DrSmooth]

Originally Posted by flip26

You saved the real reason for your umbrage for your last salvo - aww, sorry if I hurt your feelings somewhere along the line, but it really has nothing to do with this thread. If you have a problem with me, send me a PM, but carrying a grudge over from one thread to another is not kosher.

The only thing "constructive" from that person's post is as an example of what not to do. Are you suggesting it was constructive in some other way?

Med school apps should not be used to expose one's vulnerabilities, or to detail intimately personal medical or mental health problems, or to call into question one's emotional steadiness and preparedness for what is an extremely stressful education and career.

If the poster has a problem with anything I wrote, I invite him/her to comment on this thread, or send me a PM...

You have made your point; time for you to move on...and maybe get over whatever it is that is eating at you?

Flip, it has nothing to do with hurt feelings. It has to do with having personal experience with your insecure, self-centered, arrogant attitude and the poisonous effect it has on a thread and a community. Rather than glomming on to my explanation of why I would give a total stranger character advice, it would be helpful instead if you addressed the substance of my argument. I will take our conversation offline as you requested.