Arizona DO school and Scared of Racism

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FalconsFan

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I saw that a new law passed in Arizona where cops can stop you and ask for your immigration papers if you look Latino.
I am planning to attend DO school in Arizona, either ATSU or AZCOM. I havent decided which one yet.

I am a GIRL and scared that I will be discriminated in this state now since I look Latino.

Anyone else a minority and scared of attending DO school in this state because of this new law?

Will I face discrimination in ATSU or AZCOM?

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Seriously?? Since you "look latino?" I am sure you will be fine.
 
I saw that a new law passed in Arizona where cops can stop you and ask for your immigration papers if you look Latino.
I am planning to attend DO school in Arizona, either ATSU or AZCOM. I havent decided which one yet.

I am a GIRL and scared that I will be discriminated in this state now since I look Latino.

Anyone else a minority and scared of attending DO school in this state because of this new law?

Will I face discrimination in ATSU or AZCOM?

Really? Nice first post
 
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Seriously?? Since you "look latino?" I am sure you will be fine.

Ummm why do you say seriously? This is real a problem in Arizona and minorities are very scared about it. Obviously you are not a minority because you dont understand. This is a serious issue, and there will be racial profiling and I am wondering how other students of color feel about it.
 
I saw that a new law passed in Arizona where cops can stop you and ask for your immigration papers if you look Latino.
I am planning to attend DO school in Arizona, either ATSU or AZCOM. I havent decided which one yet.

I am a GIRL and scared that I will be discriminated in this state now since I look Latino.

Anyone else a minority and scared of attending DO school in this state because of this new law?

Will I face discrimination in ATSU or AZCOM?

The whole point of the law is for the police to stop people who are doing suspicious behavior. Every been through an airport?...they randomly select everyone (grandmas, kids, foreigners, etc.) and they must prove they are not carry a dangerous weapon.

Think of this law as if you are doing suspicious, no matter what color you are, you will need to prove you are legal. Furthermore, this law, states discrimination is illegal.
 
i heard about that law, didn't know they passed it. geez. it's 1 step forward, 2 steps back in this country.

i think the best thing to do would be to find out what papers you need to keep with you at all times to prove your status. once you have that taken care of, find groups that are fighting this law because that's quite jacked up, and get involved. racial profiling shouldn't be legal. either you treat everyone like a suspect or those you have actual information on that makes them suspicious. skin color doesn't count.
 
i did a search for it, and this was the first thing that came up. for those who are unfamiliar with it.

http://en.terra.com/latin-in-americ...bill_signed_into_law_what_happens_now/hof9309

"The section of the new law that is sparking the most controversy reads as follows:

WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.


Since the majority of the 'illegal' immigrants in Arizona are Mexican, the above language effectively makes any and all use of racial profiling against Latinos legal. As common sense dictates that there is no way to tell upon initial visual identification whether or not a Latino is in the country illegally or has been a United States citizen for five generations, local people are up in arms over what they see as a direct affront to their most basic civil rights."
 
Am I the only one that doesn't see a problem with this law?
 
Am I the only one that doesn't see a problem with this law?

Poliscidoc you are not a minority and that is why you dont see a problem with this law. havent you heard of minorites getting harassed for driving through affluent white neighborhoods just because they are minorities? this happens all the time even though that minority didnt do anything wrong. I am worried that this will happen in Arizona as well and that Latino's will be stopped and harassed even if they didnt do anything wrong. This law is just scary and racist.
 
Am I the only one that doesn't see a problem with this law?

I don't see a problem either. My family lives in AZ and yes we are all latinos and none of us have an issue. Last night I read a report and it stated that 73% of people in AZ are for it. However these are not the people that are going to rally right? Not much drama when you agree with something....
 
Latino's will be stopped and harassed even if they didnt do anything wrong.
If you read the bill this is illegal and citizens have the right to sue...police officers need to be very careful as well....
 
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Am I the only one that doesn't see a problem with this law?

Raises hand. I think it is a great law.

And if you really want to know OP, I am jewish. 6 million of my ancestors, including many family members, were killed in the holocaust, so watch who you make assumptions about.

Stop being so scared over something that will most likely not affect you.
 
Thank god this is a real question. I was afraid someone was just using it as a platform for bitching about the new AZ law :rolleyes:
 
Poliscidoc you are not a minority and that is why you dont see a problem with this law. havent you heard of minorites getting harassed for driving through affluent white neighborhoods just because they are minorities? this happens all the time even though that minority didnt do anything wrong. I am worried that this will happen in Arizona as well and that Latino's will be stopped and harassed even if they didnt do anything wrong. This law is just scary and racist.

i agree with you. even though they've written it in a way that it's supposed to prevent bad things from happening, we all know that sometimes police officers go too far. hopefully you really won't have anything to worry about, but if my state was passing something like that i'd definitely want to know all the facts on it. and watch the jon stewart video someone linked if you haven't already done so. i find that his humor always makes everything better :D
 
Am I the only one that doesn't see a problem with this law?

in theory, it's great because it'll help with the illegal immigration problem (although whether or not we benefit from illegal immigrants is hotly debated of course). but how it plays out in practice is where the potential problems lie. and i believe that is what the op is scared about. that's what i'd be afraid of. i wouldn't want to be profiled just because most of the people that look like me are ____ (fill in the blank. illegal immigrants. drug dealers. car jackers. money launderers.). that's already the case, though. even when evidence says otherwise, people are being wrongly profiled.

http://www.boston.com/globe/metro/packages/tickets/010603.shtml
"Although blacks and Hispanics are more likely to be searched, whites are more likely than any other racial group to face drug charges following a search - supporting a claim by minorities that they are searched with less reason.

Statewide, black and Hispanic drivers received traffic tickets at a rate twice their share of the population. Once ticketed, they were 50 percent more likely than whites to have their cars searched, a disparity affecting 1,040 blacks and Hispanics in the 20 months studied."

so this has the potential to make things worse. and before anyone points it out, i know boston isn't in arizona, and that illegal immigration and car searches aren't the same for a variety of reason. but i'm just trying to give an example of how profiling goes wrong, in case some people were not aware that it does exist. so i can definitely understand the op's concern.

of course there are others who have never had to worry about their rights being taken away because they're in the majority. but if you've ever had to worry about getting pulled over just because your car is too nice for what "your people" can afford, if you've ever had to worry about being followed in a store by a security guard, if you've ever had to see people clutch their bag when you get near, or ask how much you charge when you're mowing your own lawn, then maybe you'd be able to understand profiling and why some of us are against it.

and (only tangentially related to my "clutch their bag" comment) since someone else posted a funny video, go to youtube and look up reckless tortuga elevator. i don't know if i can post directly to it, because of the language it uses. i also apologize if i sounded like i was rambling :D
 
Do you people know nothing about AZ? It's the John McCain state, home to the only chain gang used in the states, and people can still bear arms into restaurants and such. What you people don't understand is that people are not going to get pulled over just because of their skin color. First of all, they have to be breaking the law or doing something suspicious for the police officer to ask. Have you all never traveled to Europe? They stop people all the time in France and ask for papers because they have had such a problem with refugees coming into their country. The bill makes soliciting for work illegal and picking up someone up to work that is an alien illegal. At Midwestern-AZ, there is a Home Depot across the street and there are anywhere from 5-20 guys standing out on the street waiting for work every day. Who are they gonna stop: some girl walking to class with a backpack on or a bunch of guys standing on the street waving their arms at every truck that passes them by? Although I do agree that this bill allows for racial profiling, I think this bill will speed up the process for immigration reform at the federal level. As someone else pointed out, racial profiling goes on every day regardless of law. Ask my buddy, who is of middle eastern decent, about every time he has to go to the airport. I know I am probably going to get some slack for this but some of these people posting have never lived in a border state and don't have any day to day experience with this. Everyone is very quick to judge and have an opinion but how much of that is regarding media portrayal? And for those that must know, I lived in CA before I moved here to AZ.
 
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-april-26-2010/law---border

on AZ immigration law. Jon Stewart is brilliant btw.

Ugh, could only make it through 2 minutes of the video. I'd rather eat rusty nails than listen to Jon Stewart's 'comedy.' Even when he says stuff that sort of makes sense/isn't the most liberal blatant agenda thinly veiled behind funny voices, gestures, and faces, I find him so god damn annoying that I physically don't understand how anyone could watch 30 minutes of him speaking. UGH.
 
Ugh, could only make it through 2 minutes of the video. I'd rather eat rusty nails than listen to Jon Stewart's 'comedy.' Even when he says stuff that sort of makes sense/isn't the most liberal blatant agenda thinly veiled behind funny voices, gestures, and faces, I find him so god damn annoying that I physically don't understand how anyone could watch 30 minutes of him speaking. UGH.

Seconded.
 
I look Latino (even though, I'm not... well I guess I partially am) and I'd love to attend school in AZ (even with the new law). If you are legal and attending medical school, the new law will not really affect you (i.e. you don't worry about deportation etc.), so I don't see the big deal. Granted, I think it's a stupid law (even as someone that came here legally).

I saw that a new law passed in Arizona where cops can stop you and ask for your immigration papers if you look Latino.
I am planning to attend DO school in Arizona, either ATSU or AZCOM. I havent decided which one yet.

I am a GIRL and scared that I will be discriminated in this state now since I look Latino.

Anyone else a minority and scared of attending DO school in this state because of this new law?

Will I face discrimination in ATSU or AZCOM?
 
The whole point of the law is for the police to stop people who are doing suspicious behavior. Every been through an airport?...they randomly select everyone (grandmas, kids, foreigners, etc.) and they must prove they are not carry a dangerous weapon.

Think of this law as if you are doing suspicious, no matter what color you are, you will need to prove you are legal. Furthermore, this law, states discrimination is illegal.

That's a nice justification to support Draconian policies. The law allows law enforcement to request documentation of legal status if they "suspect" the individual is here illegally. How do you go about doing that exactly? Basically, if you're Latino and live in AZ, you better have your paperwork with you at all times.

This is just one more way to create an underclass of people in this country.
 
Ugh, could only make it through 2 minutes of the video. I'd rather eat rusty nails than listen to Jon Stewart's 'comedy.' Even when he says stuff that sort of makes sense/isn't the most liberal blatant agenda thinly veiled behind funny voices, gestures, and faces, I find him so god damn annoying that I physically don't understand how anyone could watch 30 minutes of him speaking. UGH.

Liberal? Yes. Funny? Definitely. He's a comedian, so he's going to take a side and give you social commentary. He doesn't hide behind a facade of "fair and balanced" like Fox.
 
Ugh, could only make it through 2 minutes of the video. I'd rather eat rusty nails than listen to Jon Stewart's 'comedy.' Even when he says stuff that sort of makes sense/isn't the most liberal blatant agenda thinly veiled behind funny voices, gestures, and faces, I find him so god damn annoying that I physically don't understand how anyone could watch 30 minutes of him speaking. UGH.

Couldn't agree more.
 
Liberal? Yes. Funny? Definitely. He's a comedian, so he's going to take a side and give you social commentary. He doesn't hide behind a facade of "fair and balanced" like Fox.

Comedian??? I beg to differ. I really, really don't understand how, what, why, where, etc, he's funny. He says things (written by funny interns) in weird voices, makes funny faces, and does a lot of hand gestures.

You're right though, instead of hiding behind the banner of "fair and balanced" he hides his agenda behind comedy/satire.
 
Basically, if you're Latino and live in AZ, you better have your paperwork with you at all times.

Complete conjecture and does nothing for your point. This law is bold, not a lot of doubt there. However, clearly there is a huge illegal immigration problem in Arizona, and people are, after years of failed promises from multiple federal administrations, taking action.

You saying Latinos are going to have to carry paperwork every time they take a stroll in public, or previous posters saying cops are going to pull over Latinos for no reason, and Jon Stewart comparing the situation to slavery will get you NO where.

Seriously, I don't see how these sort of radical, blanket statements are any more logical than those coming from the other side via the extremists at Fox.
 
Comedian??? I beg to differ. I really, really don't understand how, what, why, where, etc, he's funny. He says things (written by funny interns) in weird voices, makes funny faces, and does a lot of hand gestures.

You're right though, instead of hiding behind the banner of "fair and balanced" he hides his agenda behind comedy/satire.

+1

I don't think I could watch more than a minute or so of Stewart. To each their own and all that I suppose, but I can't believe people actually find him funny... :confused:
 
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Poliscidoc you are not a minority and that is why you dont see a problem with this law. havent you heard of minorites getting harassed for driving through affluent white neighborhoods just because they are minorities? this happens all the time even though that minority didnt do anything wrong. I am worried that this will happen in Arizona as well and that Latino's will be stopped and harassed even if they didnt do anything wrong. This law is just scary and racist.

I'm sorry, but this is a pretty bold (and ignorant) statement. My sister is married to a Hispanic man and they live in AZ. Her husband is a minority as well as her children. They don't see a problem with the law. Do I need to call my brother in law and let him know that since he is a minority he MUST find a problem with the law? :rolleyes: Also, there are many non-minority people who do see a problem with the law, so I'm not sure why you would even post something like this. Are you just having an unsuccessful attempt at trolling?
 
So I guess we are now going to have a bigger illegal alien problem in California with illegal immigrants coming in from Arizona now to escape from becoming a suspect and searched? Thanks Arizona. . . .
 
+1

I don't think I could watch more than a minute or so of Stewart. To each their own and all that I suppose, but I can't believe people actually find him funny... :confused:

:thumbup:
 
Complete conjecture and does nothing for your point. This law is bold, not a lot of doubt there. However, clearly there is a huge illegal immigration problem in Arizona, and people are, after years of failed promises from multiple federal administrations, taking action.

You saying Latinos are going to have to carry paperwork every time they take a stroll in public, or previous posters saying cops are going to pull over Latinos for no reason, and Jon Stewart comparing the situation to slavery will get you NO where.

Seriously, I don't see how these sort of radical, blanket statements are any more logical than those coming from the other side via the extremists at Fox.

OK, so insert "blue collar" before the word Latino in my original statement. Seriously though, what kind of position would someone be in if he or she is asked to provide documentation and it is not on their person? Also, what constitutes "reasonable suspicion" of illegality? I'm surprised at how quickly people put their faith in law enforcement when we've seen over and over again their tendency to abuse individuals' rights when they are granted too much power.

True, the federal government has failed to provide a method of dealing with illegal immigration. But this law is more than just bold, it is overreaching.
 
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Comedian??? I beg to differ. I really, really don't understand how, what, why, where, etc, he's funny. He says things (written by funny interns) in weird voices, makes funny faces, and does a lot of hand gestures.

You're right though, instead of hiding behind the banner of "fair and balanced" he hides his agenda behind comedy/satire.

You're misunderstanding my point. He doesn't hide his agenda. His satire is just a vehicle for it.
 
I fail to see how that is a radical, blanket statement as you say.

1. You asserted that all Latinos in AZ will be subject to search for any reason at any time. I highly, highly doubt police officers are going to chase down 1/4 Hispanic individuals on the sidewalk and demand paperwork at gun point.

2. FalconsFan implied all "minorities" will be pulled over and harassed without cause or provocation. Again, bold, unfounded, and improbable.

3. Jon Stewart likened the law to slavery in the 1860s. Not radical at all.

What kind of position would someone be in if he or she is asked to provide documentation and it is not on their person? Also, what constitutes "reasonable suspicion" of illegality?

The same position I would be in if I was pulled over without my driver's license or proof of insurance, although I'm a legal driver and have, by law, purchased auto insurance.

Again, you're making bold assumptions. I've been pulled over with my license ... discussed it with the officer, gave him my name, social, etc, and it wasn't a big deal. I was told to 'carry it' but I wasn't put in cuffs and beaten on suspicion of driving without a license. Had I not actually actually legally possessed a license ... then that would have been a different story (as it will be in this situation).

What does reasonable suspicion mean? Well, I could have been pulled over without my license for driving too fast, maybe blowing a red light, driving erratically, etc - I.E. cops thought I was breaking the law, so they pulled me over and tried to figure it out/cite me if this was the case. I really don't see our common practices and legality tossed out the window with this AZ case here.

True, the federal government has failed to provide a method of dealing with illegal immigration. But this law is more than just bold, it is overreaching.

I don't know what to tell you. The federal government has failed time and time again, and illegal immigration is a big problem. Maybe it's time for some bold decisions? Maybe this will alert the feds that private citizens are tired of this BS? Maybe it is too extreme, and will be overturned?

MY point is that ... it's something. To be honest, our stance on illegal immigration is pathetic, and I'm pretty happy to see someone stand up and say "enough." I think that no matter the outcome (which by the way, I don't think it's overtly intrusive, overreaching, or unethical), someone has made an effort and done something to protect American interests.

I apologize if I sound ignorant, or whatever else, but I live in one of the southern portions of a Mexico bordering state, and something really, really needs to be done. It's not an attack on a certain race, or people, it's simply trying to reverse a one-sided strain on the system. Whether the final goal is legalization and paying taxes, or it's building a more efficient barrier, beefing up security, etc ... something needs to be done.
 
Also, what constitutes "reasonable suspicion" of illegality?


Home%20Depot



Just Joking ALL!!!!! :smuggrin:
 
From "The Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism" at Rense.com by Dr. Lawrence Britt: http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
 
What does reasonable suspicion mean? Well, I could have been pulled over without my license for driving too fast, maybe blowing a red light, driving erratically, etc - I.E. cops thought I was breaking the law, so they pulled me over and tried to figure it out/cite me if this was the case. I really don't see our common practices and legality tossed out the window with this AZ case here.

You are taking the phrase "reasonable suspicion" out of context. Governor Brewer was asked what an illegal immigrant looks like. She admitted that she doesn't even know. Your example would be irrelevant.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/23/obama.immigration/index.html (see the third-to-last paragraph)



I don't know what to tell you. The federal government has failed time and time again, and illegal immigration is a big problem. Maybe it's time for some bold decisions? Maybe this will alert the feds that private citizens are tired of this BS? Maybe it is too extreme, and will be overturned?

MY point is that ... it's something. To be honest, our stance on illegal immigration is pathetic, and I'm pretty happy to see someone stand up and say "enough." I think that no matter the outcome (which by the way, I don't think it's overtly intrusive, overreaching, or unethical), someone has made an effort and done something to protect American interests.

I apologize if I sound ignorant, or whatever else, but I live in one of the southern portions of a Mexico bordering state, and something really, really needs to be done. It's not an attack on a certain race, or people, it's simply trying to reverse a one-sided strain on the system. Whether the final goal is legalization and paying taxes, or it's building a more efficient barrier, beefing up security, etc ... something needs to be done.

I understand the frustration. I live in the NYC metro area, and illegal immigration is out of control. I'm all for doing something about it. You have to take a two-fold approach. First, find a rational way of dealing with those who are already here. We can't simply deport all of them. Secondly, you have to disincentivise people from coming here. Cracking down on those employers who exploit undocumented immigrants is a start. That part of the law makes sense. My concern is that the process of determining suspicion is highly subjective and will amount to nothing more than racial profiling.
 
From "The Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism" at Rense.com by Dr. Lawrence Britt: http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Ur so deep brah. I hope this came from your Freshman, Introduction to Ethics course in college.

Translation: Shhhhhh.
 
You are taking the phrase "reasonable suspicion" out of context. Governor Brewer was asked what an illegal immigrant looks like. She admitted that she doesn't even know. Your example would be irrelevant.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/23/obama.immigration/index.html (see the third-to-last paragraph)

1. How am I taking it out of context? The premise behind the bill is to determine whether or not an individual is here legally, and if not (i.e. they are breaking the law or doing something illegal), to alleviate the issue (since it is causing various problems).

Checking for legality, and administering consequences if it doesn't fall within the confines of the law?

a. Pulled you over because you were swerving in and out of the lane. I suspect you are driving under the influence of alcohol. This is illegal. I administer a BAC test, you fail, you face the legal consequences.

b. You ran away from the cop car as I pulled into a parking lot. This is suspicious. I suspect you are living here illegally. I check, you are, you face the legal consequences.

Both clear examples of not only a simple check for legality, but also perfect examples of reasonable suspicion. Is it reasonable for a police officer to pull someone over when they swerve, but unethical to check someone's identification when they run away from a cop car??? I personally don't see the difference. Maybe a difference in severity, but not really with regard to simple procedure.

2. What an illegal immigrant looks like? I didn't know illegal was a race, ethnicity, or standard set of facial features. What a loaded question.

Do me a favor. Describe what a pedophile looks like? Impossible? Of course. Would you be morally disgusted if the police asked to see some identification and justification from a 40 year old man hanging out, alone, watching kids at a playground???

Again, the original question was completely loaded, and simply aimed at trying to get this Governor to say "illegal immigrants look like Mexicans." This was to try and make her look like a biggot, racist, who was prejudice against individuals from Mexico, when the truth is that this has NOTHING to do with the bill. It's a bill against illegal immigration, which, clearly, is a serious issue in our society.

3. Thanks for giving me info from CNN. I'm going to respond with info from Fox :laugh:

4. Here's the real issue ... you believe and feel that this bill is anti-PC, and racist. You're really not arguing it's merits, you're making radical statements about all Latinos being profiled, the Governor not being able to 'describe what an illegal alien looks like,' and laughing when Jon Stewart compares it to slavery.

HOWEVER, despite what CNN and Jon Stewart want you to think, proponents of this bill aren't a bunch of inbred, yokel, racists who hate Mexicans, they are people who are simply sick of the illegal immigration problem and the strain it has on the economy, the risk of disease spread, issues with drug trafficking, etc.

If you want to debate the merits of the bill, that's fine. However, if you want to get caught up in some sort of programmed, sensitive, knee-jerk reaction to anything involving race, then we really can't have this discussion.

This bill tries to solve a problem. It isn't trying to promote fear, or racism, or anything else, and I think the people who are interpreting it this way are doing so based on some programmed mindset to follow the status quo, and not ever support anything that others deem sexist, racist, etc.


I understand the frustration. I live in the NYC metro area, and illegal immigration is out of control. I'm all for doing something about it. You have to take a two-fold approach. First, find a rational way of dealing with those who are already here. We can't simply deport all of them. Secondly, you have to disincentivise people from coming here. Cracking down on those employers who exploit undocumented immigrants is a start. That part of the law makes sense. My concern is that the process of determining suspicion is highly subjective and will amount to nothing more than racial profiling.

Great. As soon as someone creates a bill that uses this two-fold approach, I will applaud it as well. However, until it's demonstrated to me that this bill will create noting but fear, hatred, and profiling ... I'm happy to see any step towards resolution (and do not find this bill racist, offensive, etc).
 
Poliscidoc you are not a minority and that is why you dont see a problem with this law. havent you heard of minorites getting harassed for driving through affluent white neighborhoods just because they are minorities? this happens all the time even though that minority didnt do anything wrong. I am worried that this will happen in Arizona as well and that Latino's will be stopped and harassed even if they didnt do anything wrong. This law is just scary and racist.

It's the same thing as when a white driver is pulled over for driving in a minority neighborhood (while driving to work in my case)! Contrary to popular belief it happens all the time to people of ALL races! Get over it people...If you are doing something you are not supposed to, you always run the risk of encountering the police. If the police stop you, they have the responsibility to confirm your identity! If you can not produce ID or any other proof of identity, I believe the police have every right to investigate further (including verifying citizenship status!) It is time to enforce all the laws of this nation. Illegal immigration is against the law in this country!

Also to compare this to slaves carrying papers is ridiculous! EVERYONE in this country must produce ID to prove who they are! It's not like they are just lining up minorities for a "special" minority ID card!

Well I have thrown enough gas on this fire...
 
1. How am I taking it out of context? The premise behind the bill is to determine whether or not an individual is here legally, and if not (i.e. they are breaking the law or doing something illegal), to alleviate the issue (since it is causing various problems).

Checking for legality, and administering consequences if it doesn't fall within the confines of the law?

a. Pulled you over because you were swerving in and out of the lane. I suspect you are driving under the influence of alcohol. This is illegal. I administer a BAC test, you fail, you face the legal consequences.

b. You ran away from the cop car as I pulled into a parking lot. This is suspicious. I suspect you are living here illegally. I check, you are, you face the legal consequences.

Both clear examples of not only a simple check for legality, but also perfect examples of reasonable suspicion. Is it reasonable for a police officer to pull someone over when they swerve, but unethical to check someone's identification when they run away from a cop car??? I personally don't see the difference. Maybe a difference in severity, but not really with regard to simple procedure.

Great examples of illegality. But how does it exactly apply to what we're talking about? It's one thing to be swerving in and out of a lane. That's a clear violation. However, we are talking about being suspicious of people who have not visibly broken a law. They are suspected of committing a crime simply for being.

2. What an illegal immigrant looks like? I didn't know illegal was a race, ethnicity, or standard set of facial features. What a loaded question.

Do me a favor. Describe what a pedophile looks like? Impossible? Of course. Would you be morally disgusted if the police asked to see some identification and justification from a 40 year old man hanging out, alone, watching kids at a playground???

Again, the original question was completely loaded, and simply aimed at trying to get this Governor to say "illegal immigrants look like Mexicans." This was to try and make her look like a biggot, racist, who was prejudice against individuals from Mexico, when the truth is that this has NOTHING to do with the bill. It's a bill against illegal immigration, which, clearly, is a serious issue in our society.

It was a very valid question. Eventually they will have to design a training program to identify suspicious individuals, so they will have to answer it.

3. Thanks for giving me info from CNN. I'm going to respond with info from Fox :laugh:

Haha. I knew you would say that, but I couldn't find a Fox News article.

4. Here's the real issue ... you believe and feel that this bill is anti-PC, and racist. You're really not arguing it's merits, you're making radical statements about all Latinos being profiled, the Governor not being able to 'describe what an illegal alien looks like,' and laughing when Jon Stewart compares it to slavery.

HOWEVER, despite what CNN and Jon Stewart want you to think, proponents of this bill aren't a bunch of inbred, yokel, racists who hate Mexicans, they are people who are simply sick of the illegal immigration problem and the strain it has on the economy, the risk of disease spread, issues with drug trafficking, etc.

If you want to debate the merits of the bill, that's fine. However, if you want to get caught up in some sort of programmed, sensitive, knee-jerk reaction to anything involving race, then we really can't have this discussion.

This bill tries to solve a problem. It isn't trying to promote fear, or racism, or anything else, and I think the people who are interpreting it this way are doing so based on some programmed mindset to follow the status quo, and not ever support anything that others deem sexist, racist, etc.

I've been stating my case for why I'm against this law the entire time. You just don't agree with me. That's fine. But don't retort by stating that my feelings about the law are simply a knee-jerk reaction to any issue involving race. Don't take this discussion so personally.
 
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I've been stating my case for why I'm against this law the entire time. You just don't agree with me. That's fine. But don't retort by stating that my feelings about the law are simply a knee-jerk reaction to any issue involving race. Don't take this discussion so personally.

I simply just don't see you adding much to the discussion besides a dismissal of my points (which you disregarded with the absurd questioning of the Governor) and outrage.

I understand how people can view this as profiling, insulting, etc. However, my whole point was that I don't think people are really reading into it, or giving much thought to the fact that it's a step toward battling a bigger problem (granted I know this is slippery logic in an of itself). Instead, people are simply seeing that it involves addressing one sect of people (illegal immigrants), and automatically declare it racist, profiling, etc, because that's what we do in this society. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being tolerant and watching out for true racism (i.e. someone who really makes a law that says, let's target all Latinos simply because we don't want Latinos in our state), but I really, really disagree that this is the case.

I simply feel like you're falling prey to this mentality, and that is what I was pointing out.

Again though ... I was super hesitant to even comment on this thread to being with (which, by the way OP, bravo ... you got exactly what you wanted via this discussion), because I really don't want to alienate or insult people on these boards who I've dealt with for quite a long time, respect, and like.

Ergo ... I think I've said what I wanted to say, and I won't respond anymore in this thread. I do apologize if I've offended anyone, but I think my points are laid out about as well as I can state them, and it's all I really have to say.
 
I simply just don't see you adding much to the discussion besides a dismissal of my points (which you disregarded with the absurd questioning of the Governor) and outrage.

You made certain points, and I disagreed with them. I don't see how that amounts to being dismissive of what you said. Look, no one likes it when someone disagrees with you (not you in particular, I mean each one of us). You were just getting upset because I wasn't swayed by your arguments.

I understand how people can view this as profiling, insulting, etc. However, my whole point was that I don't think people are really reading into it, or giving much thought to the fact that it's a step toward battling a bigger problem (granted I know this is slippery logic in an of itself). Instead, people are simply seeing that it involves addressing one sect of people (illegal immigrants), and automatically declare it racist, profiling, etc, because that's what we do in this society. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being tolerant and watching out for true racism (i.e. someone who really makes a law that says, let's target all Latinos simply because we don't want Latinos in our state), but I really, really disagree that this is the case.

I simply feel like you're falling prey to this mentality, and that is what I was pointing out.

Again though ... I was super hesitant to even comment on this thread to being with (which, by the way OP, bravo ... you got exactly what you wanted via this discussion), because I really don't want to alienate or insult people on these boards who I've dealt with for quite a long time, respect, and like.

Ergo ... I think I've said what I wanted to say, and I won't respond anymore in this thread. I do apologize if I've offended anyone, but I think my points are laid out about as well as I can state them, and it's all I really have to say.

I don't think that supporters of this bill are a bunch of redneck racists. I was coming at it from the point of view that its backers are overreacting to a very real problem out of frustration. I was simply advocating that they step back and find other ways to confront this issue. That is all.
 
Great examples of illegality. But how does it exactly apply to what we're talking about? It's one thing to be swerving in and out of a lane. That's a clear violation. However, we are talking about being suspicious of people who have not visibly broken a law. They are suspected of committing a crime simply for being.

This kind of reminds me of DUI checkpoints. I've done nothing wrong, I've not been drinking, yet I'm forced to stop at a checkpoint and basically prove I haven't been drinking. I of course am also asked for my license and proof of insurance at said checkpoint. I don't complain about the checkpoints though, I would rather be put out of my way a little if it means taking drunks off of the roads...
 
The Arizona Republic which is a conservative newspaper does a pretty good job of explaining the Constitutional problems of the new law. The following paragraph from the article pretty much sums up the problem:

"Under the Constitution supremacy clause" the Constitution and federal law trump state law. Article 1 of the Constitution which spells out Congress' powers specifically gives U.S lawmakers authority to establish a "uniform Rule of Naturalization and to regulate commerce with other nations."



For the entire artilcle go to : http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...00425immigration-bill-jan-brewer-arizona.html
 
The governor of Arizona also just repealed benifits for domestic partnerships, claiming that, "god put her in power to change whats wrong in society." So if your by any chance gay, bi, transgender, pansexual etc. Arizona = no no.

I'd personally rather not spend 4 years in a desert being lead around by a women who's talking to a burning bush somewhere in the vast desert of illegals.
:soexcited:

http://www.towleroad.com/2009/09/ar...says-god-has-placed-me-in-this-powerful-.html

But yah I know. Irrelevant to the OP(most likely) but meh.
 
I kind of found this funny, I've been searched numerous times by the police and questioned to the point where I didn't want to live here anymore. I'm Pakistani with a beard and my name is Mohammed. The fact of the matter is not all cops will search you or give a dang what you are, they're just a****.

Yeah it's bad that Arizona passed this law but guess what it's also good to crack down on illegal immigrants. This is why I stopped caring if I get questioned because you can easily tell who belongs and who doesn't.

It's also a good way to get PBA cards from police officals ;)
 
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