UCLA/Olive View Residency Reviews

i went to my ucla/olive-view and harbor-ucla interviews and thought i'd share some stuff. i originally thought i'd like harbor better but i have changed my mind now. both are great places but i just got that gut-feeling about one more than the other...i LOVED ucla/olive-view. as background, i'm at harvard med so i'm stuck on the east coast right now...but my husband and i are dead-set on moving back to los angeles so i've really been trying to think carefully about which of the two hospitals i would rank first. here goes...

i'll start w/ my new favorite:

ucla/olive-view:
faculty: REALLY personable faculty...they were so enthusiastic and welcoming...well published and funded... Drs. Talan and Moran just received a $9million NIH grant for a new study. they are the kings of all things MRSA and you've probably already read their NEJM articles.
The program directors, Pam Dyne and Mark Morocco, are amazing. they're just the kind of people you want to spend time with...lots of fun, easy to talk to, very supportive of your own life and personal goals.
curriculum: this will be their first pgy 1-4 class. it's great to no longer have to do a separate prelim. as far as the patient populations: half of your time is spent in the westwood ivory tower (the new hospital building is FANTASTIC and will open this april). so you'll see all of the tertiary and rare pathology (transplant, neutropenic patients, etc)...you'll also have other awesome and world-renowned departments in the same hospital...this is a big plus as you can learn from them when you call your consults and learn from them when you rotate through the non-EM rotations.
additionally, the other half of your years are spent at the County hospital, Olive-view; there you can see the pathophys that comes with an indigent/poor and underserved population. Very rewarding working with that population...they seemed to be very appreciative of their docs since they don't have easy access to care. Residents also spend some time at Antalope Valley hospital where it's apparently Procedure Heaven and you get tons of practice.
Lifestyle: westwood is a great place to be because you have all the perks of being near a big university: football and basketball games, beautiful libraries and quads to lay out on during all the sunny days, etc. great beaches nearby (santa monica, pacific palisades, malibu). beverly hills and rodeo drive right there.
interview day itself: three interviews w/faculty, then an evening event at Dr. Morocco's house...the faculty and residents were all there and it was a blast. the faculty and residents have fun together as if they're more like equals...they really are a family and everybody parties. i'm all about being w/ people who really live up their free time.

Harbor-ucla
another awesome program...although it wasn't my personal favorite, i could see why other people would love it.
faculty: also another place w/ lots of big names like dr. hockberger. they also have some great research going on and they were very nice to us on interview day. unfortunately, they struck me as more old-school...less fun and less intertwined with the residents when not in the hospital. the residents and faculty seem as though they mesh together well and are a family on an academic/teaching level, but not as much on the after hours level (w/ the exception of maybe one or two faculty who seem to let loose).
curriculum: 1-3yr program so that's a big draw. similar to the olive-view portion of ucla/olive view in that harbor hospital serves an indigent/poor and underserved population. a plus is that they get lots of trauma (especially now that drew's closed). however, the downside is that the hospital doesn't have the bonus of being near the rest of UCLA medical center and having its $$, resources, or exposure to pathphys outside of the indigent population. the fewer resources also means that the other harbor departments are much slower and scut-filled when you're on your non-EM months (up until recently, on medicine you'd draw your own blood cultures, transport your own pt to CT if you wanted it done within a reasonable amount of time, etc...supposedly those things have recently improved but some residents say it hasn't). also, the entire ED and all charts run on PAPER!!! (w/ the exception of computerized lab results.) so i was really bummed to hear that. a big plus though is that the psych pt's go to a separate area of the ED and you rarely have to deal w/ them if they don't have a medical issue going on.
lifestyle: great beaches nearby (manhattan, hermosa, palos verdes estates). but no university around.
interview day itself: very similar: three interviews w/ faculty and then an evening event but it's just w/ residents, no faculty. the residents were really nice and all get along.

that's the end of my post but i'll add any edits if i think of anything. again, both are totally awesome programs and i'd be happy at either. but ucla/olive view just seems like my kind of place!! good luck everybody!

This is a couples' match list...if it were just me, my list would likely look pretty different. Some programs would have been higher on the list (especially Cinci), but Vandy definitely would still have been my #1.

I interviewed at 18 programs, and ranked all 18. This ROL is obviously just my (and my fiance's) opinion- no offense to anyone is intended. It was really helpful for me to look through ROLs from past years, so I thought I should reciprocate by posting mine.

I felt so fortunate to get to interview at these programs and honestly thought each of them had notable strengths. The couples match certainly complicates things (and requires LOTS of negotiation) but luckily I feel like I would be happy at a lot of these places.

Let me know if you have any questions about my list or the programs I visited. I'm happy to give my advice/thoughts to next year's applicants too- just message me!

1) Vandy: I am absolutely in love with this program. Love the faculty, love the Chair and PD, love the residents. It's one of the most resident-centric programs I have seen, with the best teaching in the country. Very busy ED with so many critical care patients. Tons of trauma because of huge cachement area; great relationship with trauma surg. Curriculum extremely well thought-out, including no floor months. Residents are very close and are amazing people. Very diverse patient population (tertiary care, uninsured/underinsured, bread and butter EM, peds, immigrants). Nashville is a really fun city, great COL, easy to live right by the hospital. Grads go anywhere in the country they want. This program has everything I want.

2) UCLA-Olive View: Truly amazing PD who has the residents over to his incredible house (and he was the medical director for the show ER- I thought that was pretty cool), and distinguished faculty. Well thought-out integration of county and tertiary care experience. Ronald Reagan is an incredible facility, and Olive View is a nice little hospital that has a new ED opening this April. Program curriculum is "front-heavy" (easier 3rd and 4th years), which I liked. Intern year is getting much better every year- there will be 6 months of EM during intern year 2011-2012 and fewer medicine/surgery ward months. PD described the program as a "liberal arts EM program," which I thought was an apt description and a pretty neat concept. Amazing international opportunities and a lot of elective time. My Spanish is mediocre at best, and that seems pretty essential (especially at Olive View). Trauma not as extensive as at other LA area programs. COL high and lots of commuting in nasty LA traffic.

3) UNC: Residents were very happy and welcoming. I really liked the dual hospital system. I went back to do a second look and shadowed at both hospitals, which only served to increase my enthusiasm about their way of training. Of course, it does result in a lot of commuting but the traffic isn't bad so that didn't bother me. Amazing PD who is an outstanding teacher and very supportive of the residents. Program produces very well-trained EPs who also have satisfying personal lives. I love the location and the COL. Great moonlighting opportunities. Medicine and surgery ward months intern year (but at WakeMed so relatively laid-back). Not as much trauma as some other programs. Duke is obviously nearby so there is some division of patient populations, but I felt that was made up for by the WakeMed experience.

4) Highland: This is a well-known program that I felt lived up to its strong reputation. Faculty and residents are all very laid-back and fun. Strong family feel. A lot of the faculty trained at Highland (which may be a negative), but of course they stayed on faculty because they love it so much there. GI rounds TID seem like a great idea. Not an "official" Level 1 trauma center but there is none in the county, so serves as the de facto trauma center and see a lot of trauma. Not a stroke center, so do a month of neuro at UCSF. Amazing U/S experience. Peds is not integrated (no peds beds in HGH). Highest salary I saw on the trail (because they are unionized). Tahoe ski cabin sounds like fun. Sounds like they have everything worked out in regard to UCSF's EM program, but still made me a tiny tiny bit nervous.

5) BIDMC: The 3+1 (Junior attending year) is an amazing opportunity that I was very excited about. The curriculum is very well thought-out with a clear graduated responsibility. Rotate through 5 "affiliate" hospitals (community sites), which seems like a good experience to see how different systems work. Amazing EMR. Peds not integrated. Trauma pretty good but obviously there are a lot of hospitals (including four Level 1 trauma centers) in Boston. Relatively new program (10ish years) but has established itself extremely well. Had a great feeling about this program on the interview day and it was initially higher on my list; in the end, I decided that Boston is not at all ideal for me and that's what pushed it down the list a bit.

6) LA County: Another program that was initially much higher on my list. I was in awe of this program during the entire interview day. Very sick patients and a lot of trauma, in which EM has a huge role (they do essentially all procedures). EM also manages airways during codes on the floors (which at most other places is done by anesthesia or MICU)- I thought that was cool. Residents were really fun people and amazingly impressive. Work 12s all four years (except on peds). Facilities are amazing but very much divided up into pods. Not as many academic opportunities as a lot of other programs I looked at. This place, in my opinion, provides the best clinical training in the county but wasn't the best fit for my career aspirations and personal life once I got over the "sexiness" of the amazing clinical experience. Location also not ideal for me personally.

7) Wake Forest: I love this place. PD and Chair were both very enthusiastic. Very well-established (30 years old) program with a long history of producing great EPs. Residents were very family-oriented. Very busy ED, which pleasantly surprised me. Loved the city (can get an amazing house for very little money) but it did feel a bit isolated.

8) Emory: So many faculty, and a lot of them are really well known in EM. Increasing focus on research- get a lot of NIH funding. Grady is Grady- tons of trauma (only Level 1 in Atlanta). Hugely busy, exciting ED. Patient population at Grady not very diverse- primarily African American. ED divided into red (surgery/trauma) and blue (medical) pods. Residents were very diverse and most were single. Atlanta is amazing but of course the traffic sucks and it's relatively expensive. I expected to like the program more than I did, but I got a weird vibe on interview day. It was probably just me, though!

9) Indianapolis: LOVED this program but in the end the location just wasn't going to work well. Residents were incredible- really sociable, welcoming, and proud of their program. Outstanding clinical experience, with time split between Wishard (county) and Methodist (tertiary care). Residents have a huge role in their program (49% ownership) which I thought was amazing. Very much a team attitude. In ICUs, work one-on-one with CC-trained EM faculty- so a great experience. Residents were more regional than I had expected for a nationally well-known program.

10) BWH/MGH: Strong academic program. Well-known faculty and lots of research opportunities. Felt like this was a great place to jump-start a career in academics. Lots of elective time. Program grads are highly recruited and go wherever they want after training. From talking to the residents, seems like they do fewer procedures than most other programs I looked at. Also, medicine and surgery ward months. Residents said they felt a bit "looked down on" by other residency programs at the hospitals, for what that's worth. I'm not a fan of Boston.

11) UAB: Their PD is awesome. Very responsive program leadership. The residents are pretty Southern and a lot of them have kids. Great lifestyle. Do LOTS of moonlighting. 10-year old program but feels like it's been around longer (that's a good thing). Birmingham was a very pleasant surprise. Great physical set-up of the ED. Very impressed by the program but realized as interview season progressed that I wanted a place that produces more academicians.

12) Wash U: Very busy ED. Great elective opportunities. Strong off-service rotations, but lots of ward stuff 1st year. Division status (I asked about this and the program leadership said it's not an issue). Didn't really care for St. Louis.

13) Cincinnati: LOVED this program- would have been among my top few programs, but my fiancé really disliked it for his specialty. Oh well.

14) UVA: Very nice program leadership, good reputation. Relatively low volume (although also smaller class so it works out.) Not much trauma. I didn't really click with the residents. City was too small and isolated for me. Great program but not a good fit for me.

15) Michigan: Awesome program. Love the PD. Survival Flight sounds great, as does the trauma experience in Flint. I didn't really click with the residents. The main problem for me was the location. I just don't think I could tolerate those winters- I almost crashed my car about 5 times just while I was up there interviewing.

16) Duke: I thought the PD was incredible and the faculty were very impressive. Residents were nice but seemed pretty guy-dominated. The program seems to be still fighting some battles. Wasn't a good fit for me.

17) Louisville: Had a really weird interview day, in my opinion. I found the group interviews to be awkward. Relatively low volume ED but lots of trauma. Not what I was looking for, but it had a lot to offer.

18) Harbor: This one was a surprise. Very well known program with great pathology and amazing faculty, but not a good fit for me. I personally don't want to have to deal with the transition from 3 to 4 years and the move to a new physical ED. I greatly preferred USC-LAC, but that's obviously just me and it's good that not everyone loves the same program!

I noticed there hasn’t been an UCLA-Olive View EM Residency update on SDN for many years, which is a shame since I love it here and it is one of the best programs in the country. As a current resident here (and a very happy one) I wanted to post a little about the program on SDN for those who are thinking about coming here.

Residents: This year, the program expanded to 13 due to increasing volumes at both UCLA Reagan and Olive View hospitals. There is a good mix of academic residents and the very active/outdoorsey residents that all add something unique to the program. The residents are a very intelligent, and very diverse group, who are also close-knit and happy. We do lots of post-shift breakfasts/mimosas/drinks, hang out on days off romping around LA, and we spend most of our days off with each other. We have a mix of married and single residents. Retreats in March are protected for the whole residency and are absolutely fantastic. Resident-faculty interaction is also wonderful with everyone being on a first name basis, often going over to some of the younger faculty member houses for drinks and hanging out on days off or after shifts.


Faculty: The faculty here are some of the best from all over the country, and some well-known names such as: Bill Mower, David Schriger, David Talan, Greg Moran, Fred Abrahamian, Pam Dyne, Lynne McCullough, and the list goes on and on and on. These are the all-stars of Emergency Medicine and they are all so approachable and so enthusiastic to teach. We have younger faculty as well as older, more seasoned faculty for a wide range of points of view. The residency also allows a lot of elective time for you to pursue whatever sparks your interest. The faculty are diverse enough that any of your research (or any outside) interests could easily be accommodated. Despite being top name people in the field the faculty are for the most part very down to earth and very approachable both on shift or outside the hospital. Formal teaching is done from attendings/senior residents each morning and the beginning of rounds and each week on Tuesdays from 8am to 1pm at either UCLA or Olive View. During the actual shifts, everyone seems like they want to teach.



Interviews: 3 interviews, all with faculty. The interviews are laid back, just looking for fit since your app has been screened for academic/clinical capabilities.

Hospitals: Great combination of the private state of the art mecca, UCLA, with a busy county hospital/ranch, Olive View. Also with frequent rotations at Antelope Valley, which is an additional chance to do procedures and see bloody traumas.

You get to experience the best of both worlds. UCLA Reagan is a relatively new hospital which has cutting edge technology, quaternary care patients, and an efficient system. It is a level 1 trauma center. Also, the medicine, surgery and specialty programs at UCLA are very competitive, well-regarded, and thus the residents and attendings on these services teach us daily about different obscure, as well as, some day-to-day things that have helped us with management of future patients; something that we don’t get as much at Olive View. UCLA also definitely has a cafeteria well above par to the usual hospital fare with allotted money each half of the year.

Patients at OV are largely Hispanic and represent a true county population. The patients are incredibly grateful, and you have more autonomy due to the volume of patients. The acuity is not as high at OV, but patients surprise you much more. Seemingly healthy young patients come in with fulminant liver failure, walk in with STEMIs, or have tooth abscesses that spread as far as to the mediastinal space. The breakfast burritos are some of the best you will find in Southern California.

Antelope Valley – pure trauma, and an incredibly busy county hospital also with high acuity. There is a little “casita” we stay at during this rotation as it is about an hour outside of LA.


Ancillary: Excellent inter-departmental relationships. Not a malignant atmosphere, we are very close to the other residents in outside specialties and have worked with them on our off-service rotations.


Curriculum: As an intern you work 4 x 12 hour shifts per week on EM. At higher levels (2-4) on EM rotations you do ~4.1 shifts per week. The 12 hour shifts are not as unbearable as I thought they would be. Here they are pretty strict 12 hour shifts with most residents leaving by 30-45 min after shift. You also have a lot of free days off instead of working six 8hr shifts/week. At Reagan, after 1st year, most shifts have scribes and so most of your core notes are done during your shifts, despite the high volume of patients we see.

6 weeks of pure trauma at Antelope Valley

During your ED months, you are spread between the UCLA Medical Center, and the county hospital in the San Fernando Valley, Olive View Hospital. This allows you to see a broad mix of patients, not just the highly specialized things that one might expect to see at UCLA. Shifts are all 12 hours long, but the 2-4th years also do a 9 hour fast-track shift which starts around 10am/6pm. Each shift begins with a brief round of the patients with the attendings sharing pearls with regards to the specific patients. Shifts can be VERY busy esp at the county hospital, but the nights can be a bit slower sometimes. Traumas are run by the senior (3rd/4th year) ED resident with the second year being at the head of the bed and having management of the airway and procedures. Although you do rotations at Children's Hospital in LA, you still see a good amount of peds at the main hospital sites, so there is pretty much a continuous peds exposure. Community rotations are done at the Antelope Valley hospital (room and board is in a nearby casita).

As above, teaching is emphasized. The faculty are world-renowned and give guest lectures through-out the country. They also are extremely available to help you design/practice your own presentations/research. They easily hand out home phone numbers and pagers. They have given me emotional as well as professional support in every way. The conferences are so notably fun, I don't mind the extra time on my day off to fulfill that part of the residency requirement.

You can do international medicine (established rotations in tons of places such as Chile, Bali, etc.), fly with the fire department/paramedics air rescue, radiology, rotate on the ski slopes in Telluride, anything you want. Lots of elective time to tailor your education to your individual interest.



Didactics: Conferences are a mix of didactic and lectures, and take place one 5 hour day per week (Tuesday). The didactics are often well above par with the ability to use our sim center and cadaver lab regularly. Journal club is once a month, usually at a faculty member's house...this is also amazing as often the big articles being discussed have been written by the person who's living room you're sitting in!


City: Despite being a large city most people live on the Westside and get together on a regular basis. The independent learning model of the program with a decent amount of free time and three months of elective time in the R4 year allow you to do whatever you want- travel, research, outside electives, be with family, etc. The city has something for anyone - outdoor activities (beach and hiking 10-15 min away, skiing 2 hours away), amazing food, endless concerts, people from all walks of life and all over the world (not just people from the “industry” as some imagine), amazing art. Not to mention the weather is PERFECT all year round (maybe with 1-2 days of rain). There is a reason many come here from all over the country, and never leave. Although LA is more expensive than a place like the Midwest, the residents live comfortably, and still manage to do an incredible number of activities around the city (far cheaper than SF, or NYC for example). You can find almost any type of person or activity here depending on what you are interested in.



Negatives: Traffic. Downsides...perhaps the driving between hospital sites and in LA in general. We are usually driving against traffic with one exception, our commute to Olive View for overnight shifts. We meet at a site and carpool for these shifts, which actually ends up being a lot of fun. Our program is not the knife and gun club of USC, nor is it as fast paced as that place...is that a bad thing? It depends on how you want to learn. As I progress through residency, I am more baffled by medical cases, and less interested/excited by the systematic and often straight-forward traumas (this is the case with many residents). We still do plenty of procedures.



Overall:
It is also one of the few programs I could find where you receive half training at a county hospital and half training at a private/academic center (learning to deal with private attendings and complex tertiary care cases). Trauma at UCLA certainly isn't what you find at USC (I rotated there) but it seems as though there is a lot of cook-book stuff the EMED docs do with trauma (secure the airway, start a line, insert a chest tube) then the surgeons wheel the patient away. I didn't feel I would be cheated at UCLA by any means of the imagination.

The reputation of UCLA has been built over many years by those that are still attending and are not leaving any time soon. As a graduate from UCLA you are already expected to be top-notch and as such UCLA grads bet the most sought-after jobs in LA, both academic (yes, right out of residency) and community.

The mix of patients that are seen between the two main facilities provides an excellent balance between the "bread-and-butter" emergency presentations at a county facility and the very high acuity patients at an academic center. There is far more than enough trauma at UCLA- such that you will likely get tired of it after your R2 year as you realize it is not the big deal you thought it was. Truly the strongest part of this residency is its teaching. You will not encounter a universally stronger set of attendings in the country, hands down. Every patient is presented to an attending with variable supervision based on the attending and your own comfort/ability level. This is NOT handholding, it is collegial teaching and is a tremendous asset that you will not get elsewhere. Even the "world-renowned" minds of UCLA are the most approachable, likeable people in the hospital. The relationship between residents, attendings, nurses, and ancillary staff is very close- you truly work with your friends as corny as it may sound.

I would definitely recommend this place to train, and think you will come out prepared to go into community or academic practice. Questions welcome.

Traumas are run by the senior (3rd/4th year) ED resident with the second year being at the head of the bed and having management of the airway and procedures.

Does this mean interns get less/limited procedures?

Hi Desmoid,

Thanks for your question. Sorry for the late reply, but I hope this helps. I am a current PGY2 at UCLA-Olive View.

Interns have other roles during traumas, primarily exposure of the patient, the ultrasound FAST/E-FAST, as well as helping with procedures (IOs, reductions, complicated lac repairs, and assisting or often doing other more complicated procedures - I had 7 chest tubes at UCLA during my intern year), and often step up to do their role and the junior head of bed (airway) role when multiple traumas come in, or the junior or senior is tied up on a sick patient in the department (which happens quite a bit since there is many times only one senior (3rd or 4th year), one junior (2nd year) and one intern or medicine rotator running the main department). I ran a few traumas as an intern when MCI's would come in overnight with just a nurse and a tech.

On a non-trauma note, interns often get many of the paracenteses, lumbar punctures, lac repairs, abscess drainages, reductions, procedural sedations, central lines after the beginning of the year, etc. in the departments.

Hi, I am currently waitlisted at UCLA/Olive View for an interview. This is my dream program and would really like the chance to at least interview here. Has anyone had any luck getting an interview off the waitlist here? Thanks in advance for your help.

Recently interviewed here, here's what I thought/found:

UCLA (Ronald Reagan/Olive View): 4 year academic/county program. Mostly 50/50 at Ronald Reagan (academic) and olive view (county). “Liberal arts” curriculum with a whopping 26 weeks of elective. No scholarly tracks because you have so much elective time you can do whatever you want. Obviously a huge name so there are faculty in everything (critical care, ultrasound, etc.). Olive view isn’t as “Wild West” as other local county programs (USC, Harbor) as far as acuity and autonomy, but still a solid experience. Also spend 10 weeks at Antelope Valley, a resident favorite, which is very high acuity and high volume (but quite a drive away). Pretty consultant heavy program overall compared to my other programs. I can’t find the information on these, but im pretty sure trauma is split with EM getting all airways, and pretty limited ortho experience. I don’t believe they’re doing TEEs in the ED. Moonlight as PGY3.