Anyone actually done a Navy GMO tour?

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just wondering if anyone here has actually done a Navy GMO tour...if you did (or know someone who did), did they like it? would they do it / Navy again?

I am currently in my second Navy GMO Tour. I am the Diving Medical Officer (DMO) for one of the Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) units. Prior to that, I did a tour with the Submarine force. I have had a great time as a DMO. I did a transitional internship, followed by 6 months of DMO training, which was about 1/2 Navy Dive school and 1/2 submarine/radiation health specific medicine.
Dmo is the best deal for the GMO time, IMHO, because you actually go to the same school as the Navy Divers, and are fully qualified when you leave. I provided the medical coverage for part of the USS Monitor Turret recovery in 2002, and because I was a qualified diver, I actually was able to do two dives on the wreck...230 feet on Heliox, real Discovery channel stuff and certainly better than any day in the hospital.
WIth EOD, I've rapelled from helicopters, jumped from a helo into the ocean after we pushed our small boat out, may get to go to Airborne school later this year, etc. I just returned from a trip to Sicily, Italy where I did an inspection on another unit. I've spent almost 30 days underway on submarines, which was a great time, though 30 days is enough for my lifetime.
This isn't to say that all of my days are full of excitement or great activities. A lot of days I do routine physicals and a lot of outpatient ortho on my patients, mostly men under 35 who break themselves frequently in their line of work. There is also a lot of administrative work running the clinic, supervising my corpsmen, etc. It's basically primary care lite, no DM, CHF, Chronic fatigue syndrome, etc. This works for me, as I am heading back to a non-primary care residency (likely Radiology). But I think the exposure to clinic life will benefit me later.
Everyone worries about the GMO tour, wants to go to the army or air force because they don't encourage/allow them. For me, there was nothing better after internship than going to dive school, 2 hours of physical training everyday and very little medicine. It's been a great break and I've done things that I will never get a chance to do again. That's why I stuck around for two tours. There's plenty of time to practice a specialty in the hospital. No regrets, best thing I ever did.
Drawbacks: You get rusty as a GMO, the medicine is pretty straightforward. I've talked with a lot of Docs back in residency, adn they admit that the first few months back you feel like an idiot and can't believe how much you've forgotten. The money is not as good, since your pay as a Navy Doc is largely bonuses, which only really kick in after you have a specialty. You're essentially giving up as much as 36,000/year as a GMO. But, in the Navy, if you want a competitive specialty (Derm, ortho, Rads, Anes, etc.... the usual ones) you must have at least a 2 year GMO tour or they won't consider you. For the less competitive specialties (IM, FP, Psych) they will often offer spots to interns since there aren't many returning GMO's ("Fleet guys") that want those spots. And there are some commands that just aren't good places to work. I got lucky, some friends didn't and they have hated their time as GMO's. They're few, but the possibility is there and it's not entirely up to you. That's the Navy.
I've loved it, don't fear the GMO tour, Diving and Flight are definitely better on average than shipboard or Marine Corps GMO tours but they obligate you for 3 years instead of 2 due to the 6 months of extra training, though the 6 months does count toward your payback time. Hope this helps.
Dive Doc

By the way, I leave tomorrow for 2 weeks covering diving operations in the Florida Keys...2 dives a day to check on the chamber residents. Find that in the civilian residency of your choice.

I'm considering Air Force or Navy HPSP when I matriculate. I guess the Navy requires a GMO tour. I'm interested in Flight. Could you explain this in more detail. Such as, what the flight surgeon (if that is what you call him) would do, as well as how competitive a Flight GMO is.

Also, how hard would a GMO tour be if you have a family, in respect to apart time?

Also, are you positive the AF does not require a GMO tour?

I'm interested in trauma/general surgery, orthopedic surgery, or C-L psychiatry as a specialty. Thanks.

The Navy Flight Surgeon (FS) is a bit different than the Air Force or Army. The latter two have a 6 week course that designates you as a FS without any additional obligation, you get a nice piece of Uniform jewelry and you go on about your life. There is no obligation to do a GMO tour for the training, and in fact I had a classmate in medschool get his "wings" as a 4th year elective.
The Navy selects FS from the intern classes and then sends them to a 7 month training program to be designated Navy FSs. This carries with it an obligation to do 2 years in a FS billet (your GMO tour). This obligation is served concurrently with your other obligated service, so it doesn't mean you owe 3 or 4 for medschool plus 2 for FS. It just means you can't go back to residency until after 2 years as a FS, which means 3 years after you finish internship due to the 2 yrs plus 7 months of training plus a few months to get you back to July so you're on cycle for residency. Thus, FS and DMO are at least one year longer than you standard GMO tour on ship or with the Marines.
Both DMO school and FS are fun, not stressful (well, except for pool week in dive school) and I found mine to be the perfect break I needed from internship.
In recent years, the Navy has selected about 50% of the DMO applicants and 90-100% of the FS applicats, so it isn't that tough to get a spot. The airforce and army is a school that you can got to TAD.
As a FS, you can expect to do one 6 month deployment and several shorter cruises in your 2 years, so you are away quite a bit. As a DMO, it's highly variable. My longest time was just under 1 month, but my classmate who went with the Recon Marines just returned from 7.5 months in Iraq. Mine is more typical.
JKD Med, for the specialties you listed, you'd need a Navy GMO except for Psych since there are very few returning fleet guys that want that residency.
I can only speak to my friends in the Army and Airforce, but they all trained straight through. In fact, the same medschool classmate that got FS qualified requested a GMO tour and was denied and sent to a civilian ER residency instead. This is unheard of in the Navy.
Hope this helps
DD

Why is the Navy FS program 7 months? Do you actually get to fly?

DIVE DOC,
COULD YOU GIVE SOME FIGURES AS TO WHAT THE PAY IS FOR YOUR GMO TOUR. THANKS

Originally posted by JKDMed
Why is the Navy FS program 7 months? Do you actually get to fly?

Yes. T-34s until the T-6s come on line (I think). Not sure what the rotary wing mounts are (though I think you now get to do both fixed and rotary, not just one or the other - been a while so I probably don't have the most up to date info). Pretty sweet, really. You MAY get to solo one of these planes, but not everyone does. So, while you get to fly and get "wings," you don't check out as a pilot in command. That said, if you want stick time, there are some less popular training billets (Mississippi, for example) where I know the FSs get a ton of stick time (not just along for the ride). The NAVY encourages its FSs to fly with their unit as much as possible so they understand the stresses associated with flight. Ideally, 1/2 time spent in clinic/admin and the other 1/2 spent in your squadron's spaces (you're the doc for the pilots AND all the support/op/etc folks) getting to know them and what's going on.

Were I a younger man......

I think most of what I've said is still the case, but you'll of course want to check with an official source (and maybe even a recruiter ) to be sure.

Best of luck,
P

PS - how do you know a recruiter is lying? His lips are moving.
JUST KIDDING - the med recruiter here in Philly is terrific and actually a pretty straight shooter.

Here are some pay stats. The whole list is available at www.dfas.mil, there's a link to pay scales and BAH (housing)

Base pay O-3 over 3 years $3300
Housing allowance varies by zip code, mine's $1014
BAS (Basic allowance for subsistence) ~$150
Physician variable special pay $416
Dive pay $240
Hyperbaric chamber pay (most months) $150
Submarine Pay (at my prior job, lost it when I went to EOD) $355
Annual Special Pay (one time bonus each July as GMO, disappears when you go back to residency, as do dive, sub, chamber) $15000

Last year $79,000 at the Sub squadron. This year ~74,000. Not bad when you add in the $150,000 for med school plus the interest I would have paid on it over the course of the loan.

Also, the Housing and subsistence allowances are non-taxable so the yearly tax burden goes down significantly. Hope this helps
DD

Navy Dive Doc:

I am a 3rd yr. med student on the Navy HPSP scholarship. My thinking has been in line with yours and that's why I chose the Navy over other branches-- I would LOVE to do a cool GMO tour, being a physician-less-ordinary.

Can you supply some Sea Daddy help here? I'd like to keep in contact with you and get some details as to how I can best prepare for a DMO position, especially submarine and radiation hazard work.

Please feel free to e-mail me at: misfit_of_science@hotmail.com

Thanks.

misfit

My only reservation for not doing Navy HPSP is away time from family (wife and potentially kids). What is the average away time for a Flight Surgeon? one required 6 month tour?

Air Force Flight Surgeons sound kinda of lame.

Originally posted by JKDMed
My only reservation for not doing Navy HPSP is away time from family (wife and potentially kids). What is the average away time for a Flight Surgeon? one required 6 month tour?

Air Force Flight Surgeons sound kinda of lame.

along with this question, do any of the services tend to have more billets where a spouse can come with and/or fewer times away without a spouse? like is army going to spend more time with family than navy?

JKDMed-

Time away as a flight surgeon depends upon the billet. Also be aware that some FS billets are "Operational" and some are not. In operational billets you are attached to the command (Air Station, Squadron, etc) and in the other (Claimancy 18) you BELONG to the clinic which may drastically limit your "squadron time" and effect your FITREPs. That said I know plenty of flight surgeons who have never spent day-one on a boat or deployed at all. Some do detachment for a few weeks at a time, some not at all. Many overseas billets (Naples, Sigonella, Rota, etc) are accompanied so spouse kids go along for the duration. For all the flight surgeon billets in the Navy, and whether they're operational or not, check out:

www.aerospacemed.org/dutystations.htm

Air Force Flight Surgeon does sound kind of lame, but like the Navy you can also do a RESIDENCY in aerospace medicine (RAM in the Navy) and be more that "just a flight surgeon" if that's the right way to say with the appropriate respect. Not sure how you'd sell that on the outside though.

Lastly, DiveDoc is right DMO is probably the coolest way to go! Not sure if an old man like me can take the PT though!!

Best,

Spang

Disclaimer: I'm a former active duty Navy pilot on an HPSP scholarship (2nd year) and am not a recruiter or associated in any other way with the Navy other than stated above. The information I give is based upon my interactions with flight surgeons, many of which are still my good friends, and my own 13 years in the fleet.

I'm starting my third year of med school. I'm married with kids. And I hope to do a GMO tour anywhere abroad with my family. Should I become a flight surgeon or what? One of the main factors in joining the Navy was so that I could travel with my family. Thanks for your input

gree0411-

There are about 500 GMO billets in the Navy (according to the Surgeon General of the Navy's numbers) and many are overseas. If you compare this to the list of FS billets (see link in my post above) you'll see there are significantly less FS billets. That said, the best advice applies; do what you think will give you the most satisfaction and balance that with your family life.

Maybe the Divedoc can give you some idea of the number of DMO spots, but he's away diving in the Keys right now...

Best,

Spang

My question is this: If I owe the navy a three year committment. Can I fullfill this by doing navy flight surgery? (six months training plus a 2.5 year tour)? Or will you be committed for three and a half years. Also, will you be able to apply for/interview for a civilian residency during your committment and finish in enough time to enter a civilian residency?

Reply to chillin :

Payback starts the day you finished internship - whether you're a GMO, going to flight/dive school - doesn't matter! This also means that your 3yr payback will also be done at end of June, just in time to start civilian residency.

I also had a 3yr pay-back & there are a couple of different options of how to be done after 3yrs as a flight surgeon:

1 - go to the very first FS class after internship (6 months), then do your minimum 2yr tour as a FS. If you want to get out at the earliest date, you can't take another set of orders or else you'll have to extend past your end of obligated service date. So after your 2yr tour you can extend at that command for another 6 months & separate from the Navy at that command.

2 - second option is to take one of the later FS classes & get stashed for a few months in a dept at the hospital where you did your internship...good for getting to know staff & getting future letters of recommendation. Then you'll do your 6 months of flight school, 2yr FS tour, and then you're done.

To answer your question about interviewing for residency - it depends a lot on your billet: CONUS/overseas, Operational/Claimancy-18. If you're overseas or in a unit that is on deployment, it's going to be tough & you'll probably only be able to make it for a few tightly scheduled interviews....that's the situation I'm in currently. If you're in the states, it's just a matter of taking a leave (or permissive TAD) day here & there - much easier.

Any further questions - shoot me an email.

I'm checking in occasionally between dives, Spang, here's my take on overseas billets.
There are very few overseas DMO jobs. There's a Submarine Squadron Job in Okinawa, Japan, 2 jobs in La Madellena, Sardinia (Italy) both stationed on the Emory S. Land, a submarine tender. One is the DMO for sub squadron 22, the other is the DMO technically assigned to the ship. Neither of these is a coveted tour, though I've been to Lamadd and it is a nice place. The problem is, the ship deploys in the med frequently, so if you have a family they get left behind in a VERY small Italian island community so beware if you have a wife who is not overly adventurous. Plus, the crews on Tenders are notoriously the worst in the Navy.
There is a DMO billet with Marine Recon in Okinawa (my Friend just left for that job as a second tour), it's rumored to be a great job, but it will be busy as North Korea heats up.
There are 3 jobs in Guam, 1 EOD, 1 Submarine Squadron 14 and one hospital clinic job ("Claimancy-18" means clinic). EOD would be the best of those, though I'm biased toward my own.
There are still jobs in Puerto Rico, 1 SEAL billet, 1 clinic but these are almost certainly going away as we close down Roosevelt Roads...without Vieques Island, we don't have a need anymore. It will be interesting to see how that pans out, PR is already screeming about the lost revenue if the base closes, talk about unintended consequences. Sorry, editorializing.
There is a DMO exchange billet in London, but that will never go to a junior DMO in their first tour...usually a CDR or CAPT, it's a great job. Get in line behind me.
There is a billet in Bahrain at a new EOD unit, that will be a good job but it is unaccompanied so no family.
That represents all of the overseas DMO billets. We're a small community, so there aren't a lot of jobs overall, esp. overseas. Only 20 trained a year and most only do one tour so really about 60 active DMO's at any given time.
Also, those of us who hang in there for second tours get first dibs on the "good" jobs, so some of them will disappear before new classes get their lists. Same with FS or GMO. Spang, those Key west Flight surgeons are almost certainly 2nd tour, although once in awhile they're open for Nubs. The straight clinic, non-deploying GMO jobs also tend to go to returning GMO's who signed up for a 2nd tour, interns rarely get them. I'd rather stick a fork in my eye than have on of those clinic jobs, but they're popular.

As far as overseas goes, you'd be best off doing a GMO tour not FS or DMO. That way, you can negitiate with the detailer early. IF you go to FS or DMO, you get a lot less choices when the billet list comes out...there's an equal number of jobs on the list as people in the class, maybe none overseas. Hope this helps.

What do you need in terms of physical skills and academic background in order to get into Undersea Medicine?

Originally Posted by Navy Dive Doc

I'm checking in occasionally between dives, Spang, here's my take on overseas billets.
There are very few overseas DMO jobs. There's a Submarine Squadron Job in Okinawa, Japan, 2 jobs in La Madellena, Sardinia (Italy) both stationed on the Emory S. Land, a submarine tender. One is the DMO for sub squadron 22, the other is the DMO technically assigned to the ship. Neither of these is a coveted tour, though I've been to Lamadd and it is a nice place. The problem is, the ship deploys in the med frequently, so if you have a family they get left behind in a VERY small Italian island community so beware if you have a wife who is not overly adventurous. Plus, the crews on Tenders are notoriously the worst in the Navy.
There is a DMO billet with Marine Recon in Okinawa (my Friend just left for that job as a second tour), it's rumored to be a great job, but it will be busy as North Korea heats up.
There are 3 jobs in Guam, 1 EOD, 1 Submarine Squadron 14 and one hospital clinic job ("Claimancy-18" means clinic). EOD would be the best of those, though I'm biased toward my own.
There are still jobs in Puerto Rico, 1 SEAL billet, 1 clinic but these are almost certainly going away as we close down Roosevelt Roads...without Vieques Island, we don't have a need anymore. It will be interesting to see how that pans out, PR is already screeming about the lost revenue if the base closes, talk about unintended consequences. Sorry, editorializing.
There is a DMO exchange billet in London, but that will never go to a junior DMO in their first tour...usually a CDR or CAPT, it's a great job. Get in line behind me.
There is a billet in Bahrain at a new EOD unit, that will be a good job but it is unaccompanied so no family.
That represents all of the overseas DMO billets. We're a small community, so there aren't a lot of jobs overall, esp. overseas. Only 20 trained a year and most only do one tour so really about 60 active DMO's at any given time.
Also, those of us who hang in there for second tours get first dibs on the "good" jobs, so some of them will disappear before new classes get their lists. Same with FS or GMO. Spang, those Key west Flight surgeons are almost certainly 2nd tour, although once in awhile they're open for Nubs. The straight clinic, non-deploying GMO jobs also tend to go to returning GMO's who signed up for a 2nd tour, interns rarely get them. I'd rather stick a fork in my eye than have on of those clinic jobs, but they're popular.

As far as overseas goes, you'd be best off doing a GMO tour not FS or DMO. That way, you can negitiate with the detailer early. IF you go to FS or DMO, you get a lot less choices when the billet list comes out...there's an equal number of jobs on the list as people in the class, maybe none overseas. Hope this helps.

So as a DMO, there are few good overseas bases. you do not deploy as much as a fs. if you do deploy, you are likely to go on a submarine, as opposed to a fighter jet. So why is DMO considered cooler than FS?

I am entering medical school next year, and I am considering Navy or Army HPSP. I have read through many threads over the last few years, but I do have a question left. What are the limitations of being a female DMO? And are there any vision requirements beyond general Navy guidelines? Thank you for any help that can be offered.

Originally Posted by mumiitroll

So as a DMO, there are few good overseas bases. you do not deploy as much as a fs. if you do deploy, you are likely to go on a submarine, as opposed to a fighter jet. So why is DMO considered cooler than FS?

Flight surgery is a bigger community so there are more billets/locations available, overseas and at home.

DMOs don't deploy on subs. They man dive chambers on sub tenders, which almost never leave port. Some will deploy with operational units (SEALs, Recon, EOD). Flight surgeons don't deploy "on" fighter jets. You deploy with your squadron/wing and in an operational/combat setting will likely not be flying. As a flight surgeon you may get to fly some depending on your unit and aircraft platform, but it mostly amounts to screwing around and having fun during training and down periods. I certainly do not expect to be leading any airstrikes on Al-Queda with my vast amounts of flying experience in the T-34 and TH-57.

From what I have heard (and maybe there are some DMO types that can speak better on this than I) DMOs do tend to have it a little better when it comes to deployments. Sub tenders never leave port, and I've been told that deployments with most EOD units are quick and painless.

I certainly wouldn't say being a DMO is considered "cooler" than being a flight surgeon. DMO is certainly more competitive simply because there are much fewer DMOs than flight surgeons. From what I can tell, both are very similar actually (in terms of what you do as a doctor).

From what I can tell, both are very similar actually (in terms of what you do as a doctor).[/QUOTE]

Yes, physicals and admin crap...

Originally Posted by DaveB

Flight surgery is a bigger community so there are more billets/locations available, overseas and at home.

DMOs don't deploy on subs. They man dive chambers on sub tenders, which almost never leave port. Some will deploy with operational units (SEALs, Recon, EOD). Flight surgeons don't deploy "on" fighter jets. You deploy with your squadron/wing and in an operational/combat setting will likely not be flying. As a flight surgeon you may get to fly some depending on your unit and aircraft platform, but it mostly amounts to screwing around and having fun during training and down periods. I certainly do not expect to be leading any airstrikes on Al-Queda with my vast amounts of flying experience in the T-34 and TH-57.

From what I have heard (and maybe there are some DMO types that can speak better on this than I) DMOs do tend to have it a little better when it comes to deployments. Sub tenders never leave port, and I've been told that deployments with most EOD units are quick and painless.

I certainly wouldn't say being a DMO is considered "cooler" than being a flight surgeon. DMO is certainly more competitive simply because there are much fewer DMOs than flight surgeons. From what I can tell, both are very similar actually (in terms of what you do as a doctor).

i wouldn't think they could be anything but primary care doctors, since they only have 1year of internship. I think being deployed is cool-you get to travel. If you're married, it might still be cool if you do it for no more than 3 years.

Originally Posted by DiveMD

From what I can tell, both are very similar actually (in terms of what you do as a doctor).

Yes, physicals and admin crap...[/QUOTE]

hey, are you a dmo? do you do any cool screwing around, or do you know any people who did dmo class with you and were assigend to mobile eod or recon units and perhaps they have some cool stories to tell?

I'm sure some of the people in my class are having fun as we speak. I know one guy in EOD and other with MODSU. But for the rest of us, either sub billets, tenders or clinics.

I am interested in psychiatry, and perhaps being a DMO in the Navy. Is this possible? Can I start out with a psych residency, and then apply for DMO? How would I go about this?
Thanks

Originally Posted by mumiitroll

I think being deployed is cool-you get to travel. If you're married, it might still be cool if you do it for no more than 3 years.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're not married.

Originally Posted by EElise

I am interested in psychiatry, and perhaps being a DMO in the Navy. Is this possible? Can I start out with a psych residency, and then apply for DMO? How would I go about this?
Thanks

Yes you can. We had one board certified physician in my class. I guess you should contact BUMED: Undersea Medicine and Radiation Health for more info.

Originally Posted by DiveMD

I'm sure some of the people in my class are having fun as we speak. I know one guy in EOD and other with MODSU. But for the rest of us, either sub billets, tenders or clinics.

Did most people want to get those EOD or MODSU billets? Or was it more common for people to want the less-deployed billets? How hard would it be to get the 1yr hardship tour in Bahrain? I figure if you do this, then you have seniority and afterwards you can pick the most desirable billet. Could you get any of those EOD or MODSU(marines?) guys to tell their cool stories? Also what do dmo's on tenders do? Do they not deploy with the ships/submarines? And do they not get to dive, is the ship sometimes attached to some diving/welding operations?

Question to those in the know:

Does the Navy have the leeway to cut PGY-2 spots across most specialties at their hospitals...or just not completely fill programs?

It seems that given the declining number of HPSPers, they are going to have to find a way to keep up the number of people heading out to GMO's. A an easy way to do this would be to decrease the number of people in residency....either by dropping the number of offered PGY-2 spots or just by not flling some programs.

I have heard that most specialties in Navy hospitals currently have "borderline" too many residents given case loads and census lists....is this true? Obviously the above is only a possibility if the hospitals could still function without as many residents.

I am currently on deferrment at a civilian residency, but I have a brother contemplating the HPSP. I do not want to see him sign up and then get completely screwed by having to wait in a GMO for multiple years until a PGY-2 spot would open in his his desired specialty because "x" specialty went from 15 total spots to 8.

Originally Posted by NNavy21

Question to those in the know:

Does the Navy have the leeway to cut PGY-2 spots across most specialties at their hospitals...or just not completely fill programs?

You bet. They have closed whole hospitals, and whole programs, in ophtho from 4 to zero residents in a single year in one place, and from three to zero in another and from four to three in yet another. They cut a general surgery program in half mid-stream, from four to two per class, holding back one finishing PGY2 to do a repeat of that year so that the rest of the residents in his class could meet their case training minimums as PGY3s. Was he happy about that? I doubt it. But at least he got to stay, another resident in his year wasn't so lucky.

Originally Posted by NNavy21

It seems that given the declining number of HPSPers, they are going to have to find a way to keep up the number of people heading out to GMO's. A an easy way to do this would be to decrease the number of people in residency....either by dropping the number of offered PGY-2 spots or just by not flling some programs.

I'm sure someone has that idea all shined up for an OPR bullet. But you get the general drift of Navy thinking.

Originally Posted by NNavy21

I have heard that most specialties in Navy hospitals currently have "borderline" too many residents given case loads and census lists....is this true? Obviously the above is only a possibility if the hospitals could still function without as many residents.

Another bullet in the making.

Originally Posted by NNavy21

I am currently on deferrment at a civilian residency, but I have a brother contemplating the HPSP. I do not want to see him sign up and then get completely screwed by having to wait in a GMO for multiple years until a PGY-2 spot would open in his his desired specialty because "x" specialty went from 15 total spots to 8.

Then he shouldn't sign, because if he wants something highly desirable, chances are more than a few GMOs who have done their fleet time also want in.

Originally Posted by chillin

My question is this: If I owe the navy a three year committment. Can I fullfill this by doing navy flight surgery? (six months training plus a 2.5 year tour)? Or will you be committed for three and a half years. Also, will you be able to apply for/interview for a civilian residency during your committment and finish in enough time to enter a civilian residency?

Flight surgery training is a freebee. It counts a payback.

Originally Posted by NNavy21

I am currently on deferrment at a civilian residency, but I have a brother contemplating the HPSP. I do not want to see him sign up and then get completely screwed by having to wait in a GMO for multiple years until a PGY-2 spot would open in his his desired specialty because "x" specialty went from 15 total spots to 8.

Originally Posted by orbitsurgMD

Then he shouldn't sign, because if he wants something highly desirable, chances are more than a few GMOs who have done their fleet time also want in.

Anesthesia slots at Wilford Hall Medical Center, my residency alma mater, went from 10 in 1996 to 3 in 1997, without warning, because the anencephalic Air Force Surgeon General wanted to increase the number of Flight Surgeons. He ended up getting the two-finger salute from an entire crop of demotivated physicians, who saw the proverbial writing on the wall, and left the military to pursue civilian anesthesiology residencies.

As a direct result, the number of anesthesiologists at the East Coast's largest "Air Force Medical Center", Malcolm Grow, went from 10 to 2 (with 1 useless O-6 on R.O.A.D. Scholar duty) by 9/11/01. I thus spent three months on call QOD (every other night) for no reason, other than the sheer poor planning and mismanglement (sic) of U.S. military medicine. The same tragic disaster can and will occur in any service at any time, because medical care of patients is simply NOT a priority to the Powers that Be.

--
R
http://www.medicalcorpse.com

Originally Posted by orbitsurgMD

Then he shouldn't sign, because if he wants something highly desirable, chances are more than a few GMOs who have done their fleet time also want in.

I understand that this is the way it works for desired specialties...and I have explained to him that if he choses to do one of those and does not get a full deferment he is going to have to go through a minimum of a 2 year GMO.


I am trying to get him some info on IM and GS...2 specialties which I heard you have a good chance to go "straight through" right now.

Basically, I wanted someone's opinion as to the census loads in those specialties at the 3 "academic" Navy hospitals. Obviously, if they are swamped, they cannot just cut down the number of PGY-2 spots. However, I have heard stories of there being as few as 4 patients on IM services at various times.

Do most of you think that it is going to start getting harder and harder to go straight through even in those specialties?

Originally Posted by NNavy21

I understand that this is the way it works for desired specialties...and I have explained to him that if he choses to do one of those and does not get a full deferment he is going to have to go through a minimum of a 2 year GMO.


I am trying to get him some info on IM and GS...2 specialties which I heard you have a good chance to go "straight through" right now.

Basically, I wanted someone's opinion as to the census loads in those specialties at the 3 "academic" Navy hospitals. Obviously, if they are swamped, they cannot just cut down the number of PGY-2 spots. However, I have heard stories of there being as few as 4 patients on IM services at various times.

Do most of you think that it is going to start getting harder and harder to go straight through even in those specialties?

I think so. Also remember, in most internship classes there are always several prior service guys who are more likely to go straight through (IM or GS) than non-prior service interns. Tell your brother to stay away from the HPSP program. On the long run he will be happier.

Originally Posted by DiveMD

I think so. Also remember, in most internship classes there are always several prior service guys who are more likely to go straight through (IM or GS) than non-prior service interns.

I was not aware of this. I'm a USUHS student right now. That's good to know. I'd rather not do a GMO tour. What other criteria do they look at when making these decisions?

Originally Posted by PharmD2MD

I was not aware of this. I'm a USUHS student right now. That's good to know. I'd rather not do a GMO tour. What other criteria do they look at when making these decisions?

Well, in the Navy it's all about operational tours. You can have 260’s/99 in your first two steps, AOA, top ten of your class and trust me...you are not getting radiology/optho/anesth/ENT/Urology/ER/etc without a tour. They would rather pick a less qualified returning GMO before you. One person in my intern class ended up in Ortho right after internship because has had a long (>15 years) prior service history, but not because he was the most qualified intern. In conclusion, if you want one of the “competitive” specialties right after internship…keep dreaming. If you want a primary care specialty, you might have a break but it will depend on how competed is that particular residency in your class. Also, the fact that you are a USUHS student means that they have you by the b***s for the next 7 years. They will send you out for a GMO tour knowing that eventually you will come back for residency. It is unlikely that someone form USUHS will do 7 years of GMO/UMO/FS tours in order to get out. Not trying to be an pessimist, just telling the truth.