Doctor's Diaries NOVA

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CookDeRosa

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Have any of you non-trads watched the NOVA documentary called Doctor's Diaries? I watched it last night on Netflix instant view. It follows 7 Harvard med students from day 1 through 21 YEARS of their medical career. I found it very interesting.
I did notice a thread over on the Allopathic board- wondering if anyone over here watched it?

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Didn't know about this until you mentioned. Appreciate it :)
 
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Yeah saw this like a year and a half ago on PBS NOVA on tv. It was really interesting, wouldn't mind seeing it again cool to know that it is available on netflix.
 
watched on pbs. really great show.
 
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i guess carol on that show could be considered a nontrad for that time, when everyone goes to med school at 21. i think she was 24-ish when she went.
 
i actually watched this documentary twice...loved it both times
 
The ER doc was a non trad also.. I absolutely loved that show..
 
Good thing they all seem to be miserable in the end. Encouraging for us young ones. Even the guy with the stay at home wife you could see her wanting to rip off his balls when he said he thought he'd want a woman of equal education and career and then he fumbled to try to fix what he said.
 
I agree. It was quite sad to see how dysfunctional most of their lives were after 21 years. The ER attending was the worst - Harvard M.D. and now he's living out of hotel rooms in random places like Oklahoma, and like small U.S. towns and the Virgin Islands because he's found himself unemployable in mainstream U.S.A. He's also on his 3rd or 4th marriage, he's probably 150 pounds heavier than the first show, and smokes like a chimney.
 
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I just finished watching this documentary. I agree that it was rather disheartening, but it also made me excited about starting school next year. I think it would be great for gunnerish pre-meds to watch it so they can see that graduating from HMS does not necessarily a perfect life make.

In the end, everyone is their own person and makes their own life choices. Doctors are by no means excluded from making bad decisions. I enjoyed that human side of the documentary.
 
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The documentary is really incredible. Following the most grueling non-military education/career path known to man over a long period of time is such a special story, regardless of the outcomes. It's rare to see such a thing.

I, too, most appreciated seeing that life is what you make it, even as a doctor. At best, you're very likely to have issues having a social life. At worst, it can ruin you mentally, physically, and socially. Seeing stories like these remind me to maintain important relationships and keep them high in the priority scale, no matter how challenging.
 
Yeah saw this like a year and a half ago on PBS NOVA on tv. It was really interesting, wouldn't mind seeing it again cool to know that it is available on netflix.


You should watch it now, what you would have watched wasn't the follow up.
 
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I really found this documentary enlightening. Seriously, I know people's life choices matter, but I think you can find significant similarities between the outcomes of all 7 students. And, if I can say, these are Harvard Med grads, likely not "dummies" incapable of good planning.

What I took away, is that medicine is really an "either/or" profession rather than an "and" profession. I think it's for the immersive type-A folks who can put their career first. While not medicine, I remember that feeling- I remember doing that when I was young. Full and total devotion- balls to the wall, all in. Maybe that's why I burned out after 20 years. If I'm being honest, I'm not feeling (at 40) that I'm 100% ready to do that again with something new. Maybe it's cold feet, maybe it's a reality check...but this documentary has given me pause. Maybe I should work at Walmart.
 
i saw this recently on netflix! i loved it! very insightful :)
 
I just watched it. A little discouraging, I might say. Sad to see the life of the Internal Medicine physician not being reimbursed enough. The ER physician, Tom, was definitely a non-trad. He mentioned that it took him 14 years to get to Med School. Now I am questioning myself, if I am (at 34-35) going to be able to go through 4 years of Med School, followed by a residency.
 
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My school made us watch this when I was an undergrad pre-PT student back in 03-04. They used it as part of the scare campaign, to scare us away from medicine and into their PT program. It worked, at least for about 6 yrs anyways.
 
My school made us watch this when I was an undergrad pre-PT student back in 03-04. They used it as part of the scare campaign, to scare us away from medicine and into their PT program. It worked, at least for about 6 yrs anyways.

I guess, it's just a matter of perception - how much do you let it scare you?
 
I watched this recently again likewise on Netflix. The happiest seemed to be the researcher/opthamologist. He seemed bright and content. The ER physician was the most dysfunctional. I wonder what went wrong? The medical researcher totally got out of patient care. The mother with two young daughters seemed scattered and trying to hide her unhappiness. The wife of the one physician with the two children did seem like she wanted to tear his balls off in part I of the show. The psychiatrist was a bit creepy to me especially toward the end, but maybe it's because I think psychotherapy is a bunch of bs.

The one thing that made me feel better was that even though I think of getting into medical school as a beastly adventure, everything that they talked about on the show was familiar to me from my hospital experiences.

The enthusiasm that the physicians had in the beginning of the show is ultimately what I'm going to take with me for the rest of my premedical journey. The physicians who I work with are nothing really like the physicians who I saw in the movie and seem much better at jugling home and work lives.
 
Thanks for posting the link, jsp. I'd never seen this before.

Watching the first half where the students were going through med school made me smile and cringe several times. So many of those experiences and emotions are universal, even 20 years later. Good grief, I even wore horrible glasses like that in the 1980s. :laugh:

Now being at the point where I'm getting ready to leave medical school and start residency, I have to say that I agree with Cook. In spite of what many people would like to believe, you cannot "have it all." This is not just a phenomenon in medicine. In general, if you want to be at the top of your field, you will not be the kind of parent who is there for all of your kids' school plays--if you have a family at all. And if you want balance, you will achieve that balance by cutting back on your career. I don't think there's a right or wrong side of the tradeoff, but there *is* a tradeoff, and anyone who says different is deluding themselves. It makes me particularly angry when people tell young women that they can be super-moms and super-professionals. You can't have two 80+ hour per week jobs when a week is only 168 hours total!

Cook, I do think there is room in medicine for people who don't want to make it their whole life. No question, your career trajectory will be different than someone else who is "balls to the wall." But if you're ok with that, you can create a balance, even in medicine.
 
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It makes me particularly angry when people tell young women that they can be super-moms and super-professionals. You can't have two 80+ hour per week jobs when a week is only 168 hours total!

Most definitely. Something has to give especially in the long run. We will probably never be at the top of our class, but I'm okay with that. Hopefully being a parent will bring a broader perspective and allow us to give more compassionate care. This is what I'm going to keep telling myself at least.

Also, we must start training our husbands now. Wait, we will probably end up divorced, right? :laugh:
 
Wow. That was raw.

Things I took from the show:

1. This is going to be really hard. I knew this, but seeing it live really drove it home.

2. If I get divorced I can always just get a hot Asian art connoisseur

3. The ROAD to happiness seems to proves itself once again, at least in appearance. The EM guy says he's "happy" but I don't believe him. He's definitely a bit nuts. And the cardiology girl doesn't count because she's not really practicing cardiology.

4. You can have a pony tail, visible tats, chain smoke, be a fat ass, and still practice medicine

5. You probably shouldn't have a pony tail, visible tats, chain smoke, and be a fat ass while practicing medicine

6. Doogie Howser is a real person.
 
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Thanks for posting the link, jsp. I'd never seen this before.

Watching the first half where the students were going through med school made me smile and cringe several times. So many of those experiences and emotions are universal, even 20 years later. Good grief, I even wore horrible glasses like that in the 1980s. :laugh:

Now being at the point where I'm getting ready to leave medical school and start residency, I have to say that I agree with Cook. In spite of what many people would like to believe, you cannot "have it all." This is not just a phenomenon in medicine. In general, if you want to be at the top of your field, you will not be the kind of parent who is there for all of your kids' school plays--if you have a family at all. And if you want balance, you will achieve that balance by cutting back on your career. I don't think there's a right or wrong side of the tradeoff, but there *is* a tradeoff, and anyone who says different is deluding themselves. It makes me particularly angry when people tell young women that they can be super-moms and super-professionals. You can't have two 80+ hour per week jobs when a week is only 168 hours total!

Cook, I do think there is room in medicine for people who don't want to make it their whole life. No question, your career trajectory will be different than someone else who is "balls to the wall." But if you're ok with that, you can create a balance, even in medicine.

I think I'll have a hard time creating a balance to be honest. I'm not really a balanced person. (just being honest) I tend to be excessive and obsessive. When I was young in my first career, that really was an asset. I think as an adult....not so much. I'm leaning toward a slight delay, because frankly, I do want to devote a good deal of time to my new career, and understanding the realities makes one (me) a better judge of what I can do and when. It's win-win.
 
Wow. That was raw.

Things I took from the show:

1. This is going to be really hard. I knew this, but seeing it live really drove it home.

2. If I get divorced I can always just get a hot Asian art connoisseur

3. The ROAD to happiness seems to proves itself once again, at least in appearance. The EM guy says he's "happy" but I don't believe him. He's definitely a bit nuts. And the cardiology girl doesn't count because she's not really practicing cardiology.

4. You can have a pony tail, visible tats, chain smoke, be a fat ass, and still practice medicine

5. You probably shouldn't have a pony tail, visible tats, chain smoke, and be a fat ass while practicing medicine

6. Doogie Howser is a real person.

:laugh: All true but I think pony tail is unemployed.
 
:laugh: All true but I think pony tail is unemployed.

If I saw that dude getting out of his truck walking to the ER I would be sure he was there for chest pains.
 
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Wow, this documentary makes a career in medicine seem wildly unappealing to me. Its really true when they say you should only get into medicine if you can't see yourself doing anything else. I've been on the fence for a while. This is it for me I think.

To be honest, I think my true motive for wanting to pursue medicine is personal vanity. Nothing more. Its a good thing I'm being honest with myself about this now. This is something that's been bothering me for a while.
 
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i loved it. though i am perplexed why the ER guy is unemployable in the mainstream. is it just because of the way he looks and the public's expectations of what a doctor should appear as?

It also looked like he was working in Seattle at the end of Part 2.
 
i loved it. though i am perplexed why the ER guy is unemployable in the mainstream. is it just because of the way he looks and the public's expectations of what a doctor should appear as?

It also looked like he was working in Seattle at the end of Part 2.
If you read the updates on the Nova website, he talks about this - he gets in trouble for not toeing the line, gave a patient Afrin from his own stash when the ER pharmacy wouldn't do it. I'm inclined to believe such rule-breaking happens with some frequency, and that you don't get caught unless you make a demonstration of it. He's uninsurable with such events on his record.
 
ahh didnt know that -- found it:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/tom.html

thanks!

i love this:

Q: If you could do some things in your life differently, what are some of the life lessons you've learned?

Tom: Watch out for adjustable-rate mortgages, watch out for cars that don't get good gas mileage. I don't know. Try to smell good all the time. That's about it.
 
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If you read the updates on the Nova website, he talks about this - he gets in trouble for not toeing the line, gave a patient Afrin from his own stash when the ER pharmacy wouldn't do it. I'm inclined to believe such rule-breaking happens with some frequency, and that you don't get caught unless you make a demonstration of it. He's uninsurable with such events on his record.

Ah OK. His employment predicament makes more sense now.

What are your options when you f**ck up like that? How can you redeem yourself? And it looks like his infractions were very benign. I can't imagine how one would recover if he/she were to make an actual mistake. And you would think a licensed doc should be able to give a patient whatever he/she wants as long as he notes it properly, providing an explanation etc. "...the guy needed Afrin, so I utilized the only source available..." "Oh OK Dr. Pony Tail, that's fine. Thank you for the explanation."

There's just too many damn lawyers.

And another thought on the show, if you were to follow ANYONE for 21 years from age ~22-30, you would probably see a similar distribution of personal problems. So it's not being a doctor one should fear, but life itself.

-51% divorce rate, or something like that.
-Addiction and mental illness are common among all types of people.
-Pony tails and tats can strike anyone, rich, poor...doctors, homeless people
-lisps and other speech impediments occur in equal frequency among dorky and non-dorky individuals
-Wannabe artists are EVERYWHERE. I'm pretty sure I'm one of them.

In fact, given the monastic lifestyle required to become a doc, you would probably see a much more severe collection of problems in a non-MD sample of people, probably in the addiction/alcoholism spectrum with a smattering of joblessness and criminal records.
 
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Those are the things he admits to on PBS. You gotta wonder what a guy like this is actually doing. Making yourself unemployable as a Harvard MD sounds like quite a feat.
 
Those are the things he admits to on PBS. You gotta wonder what a guy like this is actually doing. Making yourself unemployable as a Harvard MD sounds like quite a feat.

True.

I wonder what the whole story is. I bet it's entertaining.

"...You smoke ONE cigarette in the OR..."
 
:laugh: All true but I think pony tail is unemployed.

oh ok I get this post now.

Yeah but he seemed to be doing OK for the first few years....

What a crazy SOB. How can't you make a Harvard MD work in some way other than flying to your locum tenens spot.

I feel bad for the guy. And he actually looked like he was pulling some ass for a bit there....
 
I just watched this, and it left me feeling depressed. :( The disillusionment they all went through was pretty harsh. None of them appeared to be happy people, and the divorce tally was disconcerting. Tom was a really sad figure, in particular.

Here's a link to an interesting article by the producer of the series. In it he says this:
WHY I MADE THIS SERIES
In my late teens, when I was trying to decide what to do with my life, two passions surfaced almost simultaneously: moviemaking and medicine. In my early 30s, when I hit a particularly bad patch in the film business, I reapplied to medical school. In 2001, when the fourth installment of the doctors series aired, I wrote, "Making this series of films about medical training has made me realize how fortunate I was to be turned down!


~It must have depressed him, too! (Though, he did have a change of heart later; maybe he hit another bad patch in moviemaking :rolleyes: )
 
Whatever you do, don't watch this with your spouse. It took a lot of effort to talk him out of worrying that we would be doomed to divorce (the documentary made it seem like a certainty even though the actual percentages were not too far from the national average)... and we have a great marriage.
 
Funny that this thread came back up just now, because I was thinking about the girl whose surgery patient died. She is definitely the one I identify with most closely, not the nontrad.

I'm doing residency at a tertiary care center, and we have been getting some super sick patients. Had two patients code yesterday within an hour or two of each other. One was already dead with no real hope of us saving them even before the code began. The other coded while one of the other residents was right there in the room seeing them, and I'll be darned if we didn't get that one back and over to the ICU.

Some of you might not know how low the odds are of surviving a cardiac arrest. That second patient was "lucky" enough to have a physician-witnessed arrest while in the hospital, which means the odds of them walking out of here are in the teens or maybe low twenties instead of in the single digits like they are after an out-of-hospital arrest. But that best case scenario still ain't all that good.

I was off today, so I'll have to check on how that patient is doing tomorrow. Like I said, it wasn't my patient, but still, I feel kind of invested after pounding on their chest for several minutes. :hungover:
 
Every person considering a career in medicine should watch this. Really great perspective on things.
 
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Wow this takes me back. I saw this back when I was in high school before the 20 year follow up. It really does a great job of conveying the emotions of medical training.

The profound insecurity and isolation of the first few years.
The constant confusion and feeling of being judged during third year.
The terror and exhaustion of internship.
The further exhaustion and bitterness of residency.
The further bitterness and eventual resignation of what comes after.

The part that hits home the most is when the ask the various doctors "Would you do it all again" and the answer is uniformly some variant of the hand-wavy "well you can never really go back."

Yep, what's done is done. I vaguely like what I do, though I wish the hours weren't so bad and I didn't have to give up my 20s to get here. There were probably better options I could have taken are there were worse ones, but here I am.

I remember thinking how noble it would be to pursue the challenge presented in this documentary. This quickly gave way to the banal day-to-day of it. Ah well...
 
Thread resurrection time, I suppose. Just watched this and enjoyed it. It’s currently on Amazon Prime if anyone is interested.

An interesting thing is that, reportedly, physicians have about a 22% divorce rate. This is one of the highest for those earning over $75k per year, but one of the lowest of any career. Kinda nutty when you consider how many of the folks in the documentary ended up divorcing.
 
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Edit: There are two programs on Amazon with the name like "Doctor's Diaries". This is the one you want:

Amazon product

www.amazon.com /Doctors-Diaries/dp/B004AUNRYC


Indeed. But, the entire thing can be watched on Amazon Prime Video. I wrote Amazon Prime and forgot to include the video portion to indicate that it can be streamed for free right now, for Prime members.
 
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