I think I need to reapply - 3.7, 30

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I am waitlisted at one school and have been rejected from all but one other. I think I'll need to reapply.

• GPA 3.7
• MCAT 30
  
• Two semesters of research
• Upward trend in GPA, all As for the last 2.5 years
• Now working full time and working two jobs
• Volunteering as a tutor for low-income students, as a bio tutor at my university, with Habitat for Humanity, and in the emergency department at UConn
• Shadowed primary care doc, emergency med doc, two pathologists
• Founding/E-board member for NORML@my university
• For the first two years at school, I worked 30 hours a week while attending school full time

What else should I do? What else can I do? How do I show admissions committees that I am a committed, enthusiastic candidate? Any suggestions are appreciated!

Two thoughts:

1) If you didn't apply to DO schools, I'd suggest it. You'd be on the higher end of candidates as GPA/MCAT are concerned, and it looks like your EC's are solid.

2) How broadly and how early did you apply? If you only applied to three MD schools in November, you shot yourself in the foot this cycle.

If you can elaborate, you'll probably get more targeted feedback.

Sure, sorry about that!

I applied to mostly New England schools in order to stay close to family, about 15 of them. I applied very early in the cycle - June-September.

This time around I'm looking more south and west - since New England didn't work out, I realize I need to branch out a little more. I will also be applying to DO schools.

Maybe it's your PS? Make sure it's not just a rehash of your extracurricular activities as I see so often. It should be about your journey, your interests, your leadership qualities, what event inspired you, etc? It should not be "I will make a great doctor because..." They know that, it should be about everything else. Put your application in on June 1st.

You have to understand that you are competing with 1000's of applicants with the same stats as you. There needs to be something that makes you stand out and be remembered.

Thanks for the extra information. One thing that I could see as a non-starter at some schools could be the NORML membership (I'm assuming this is the same NORML that I google'ed, advocating the legalization of marijuana) and founding a chapter. Did you list it on your AMCAS/AACOMAS? If so, it may be worth fleshing that activity out some more. Why are you a proponent? What inspired you to open up a local chapter at your university? How would NORML's goals fit into your pursuit of medicine? ADCOM's could see it as a red flag if a well-reasoned argument isn't there.

If you haven't done so already, I'd also get in touch with the schools that didn't accept you. Many of them will review your file and give you feedback for improvement if you ask. If you talk to, say, three schools, and they all suggest the same improvements, you'll have something to focus your energies on.

Major props for having the chutzpah to list NORML, but this is a polarizing issue that some people will simply react very negatively to no matter how much justification you offer. Sort of a microcosm of the current state of prohibition, when you think about it. I'd like to be able to say that well-reasoned argument would change the mind of the average adcom fossil, but I don't think anything but time will fix this particular generation gap.

This is roughly on par with listing your membership in a pro/anti choice group - some will love it, others will hate it, but alienating half of the people whose votes you need is the kind of tactic that only works in a safe congressional district. You're in a very different spot - with average stats and ECs, it really only takes one person to blackball you.

Unfortunately this is a situation where people will not respect your courage, especially because having this as your unique activity will almost certainly get you nicknamed "the pot guy".

Yeah, I'd remove that activity, & have the PS readers go over your PS. Apply June 1.

Originally Posted by scarshapedstar

Major props for having the chutzpah to list NORML, but this is a polarizing issue that some people will simply react very negatively to no matter how much justification you offer. Sort of a microcosm of the current state of prohibition, when you think about it. I'd like to be able to say that well-reasoned argument would change the mind of the average adcom fossil, but I don't think anything but time will fix this particular generation gap.

This is roughly on par with listing your membership in a pro/anti choice group - some will love it, others will hate it, but alienating half of the people whose votes you need is the kind of tactic that only works in a safe congressional district. You're in a very different spot - with average stats and ECs, it really only takes one person to blackball you.

Unfortunately this is a situation where people will not respect your courage, especially because having this as your unique activity will almost certainly get you nicknamed "the pot guy".

Yep, you absolutely nailed it.

Hah, and here I thought it made me stand out, since that's what a lot of SDNers suggest. Too bad it's not a more acceptable activity.

I will remove that activity, then, but I had no other leadership activities during college. I'm in the process of starting a small online business - does managing a project, people and finances count as leadership, even if the business takes place online?

Originally Posted by adenine

Hah, and here I thought it made me stand out, since that's what a lot of SDNers suggest. Too bad it's not a more acceptable activity.

I will remove that activity, then, but I had no other leadership activities during college. I'm in the process of starting a small online business - does managing a project, people and finances count as leadership, even if the business takes place online?

I'm torn on the NORML activity. I see why it would be good to axe, but I feel like if you are dedicated to it, then you should put it on. If you get an interview, it might even be a good opportunity to present a tight and reasoned argument about something controversial. I say keep it!

Originally Posted by adenine

Hah, and here I thought it made me stand out, since that's what a lot of SDNers suggest. Too bad it's not a more acceptable activity.

I will remove that activity, then, but I had no other leadership activities during college. I'm in the process of starting a small online business - does managing a project, people and finances count as leadership, even if the business takes place online?

I'd say so. You're the founder/owner, and if you have anyone working for you, a customer base, etc., I think you could make a leadership argument. I think I'd spin it a little more toward innovation (assuming you have a niche you're selling to) and drive/motivation. Depnding on what you're selling, you could say that you saw a need for your product/service and, being the entrepeneur that you are, made sure that those products were available. In short, it won't hurt you as long as you're not selling anything crazy.

Originally Posted by lalalaaaaaa

I'm torn on the NORML activity. I see why it would be good to axe, but I feel like if you are dedicated to it, then you should put it on. If you get an interview, it might even be a good opportunity to present a tight and reasoned argument about something controversial. I say keep it!

Personally, I could care less; but from a strategic point of view, pot legalization is going to be one of those polarizing, "hot button" issues. Doubly so because it's currently listed as a Schedule I drug under the Federal Controlled Substances Act (along with heroin, MDMA, etc.). Depending on which side of the fence an ADCOM member comes down on, you could get responses varying from, "Cool, this person's all about being rational yet keeping an open mind" to, "WTF? This person thinks using hard drugs is ok! SHUN THEM!"

(Exaggerated for effect, but you get the picture )

I had this same problem last cycle - I debated for a long time whether to include it or not, but I think I'll keep it out of there this time around. Although it could go either way, I'd rather be on the safe side.

Any other suggestions out there? Should I maybe go back to school, or try and find a research job? I'm already working full time (and more, sometimes.)

Originally Posted by adenine

I had this same problem last cycle - I debated for a long time whether to include it or not, but I think I'll keep it out of there this time around. Although it could go either way, I'd rather be on the safe side.

Any other suggestions out there? Should I maybe go back to school, or try and find a research job? I'm already working full time (and more, sometimes.)

I would get LizzyM and Catalystik's opinion on this. I would actually be interested to see their POV.

Originally Posted by lalalaaaaaa

I would get LizzyM and Catalystik's opinion on this. I would actually be interested to see their POV.

Are they open to PMs? I imagine they get quite a few...

I believe you could PM them, at least with the info for the thread. Just be patient, and gracious in your message

I'm open to PMs but I'm here and the advice is free....

Everything already said is spot on. While it is good to stand out, being "the pot guy" is not who you want to be. If your current job isn't with patients or in social service (working with the disabled, aged, etc) or in research, you might want to move into one of those industries if you can. Either of those will show a continued interest in something related to what doctors do.

New England is tough because many require really high stats (Yale, Harvard) or are unfriendly to non-residents (UCONN & UMass). Branching out and being the guy who brings geographic diversity to a place might be in your best interest.

I concur with the suggestion that you consider DO schools if you are open to primary care. Of course, get some shadowing with a DO (and a LOR) if you are going to take that route.

Thank you LizzyM, I will err on the side of caution. I swear I'm not a pothead, I just believe in the social/health/economic benefits of cannabis! It's something that I'm really interested in, but it's just too controversial, I guess.

I will be branching out much more this time around, and hitting up the DO schools as well. I know it's a little early for this, but I really really like pathology, and I'm concerned that if it turns out that I really do want to go for patho, it might be more difficult if I'm applying as a DO. Thoughts???

Maybe I can find a part time job assisting in a medical office or hospital, as well. That would be awesome!

Getting some healthcare experience is definitely worth it. If the market's saturated, I'd also suggest volunteering; most places won't turn down free help, and if you show up and do the job well, it can translate into some pretty cool opportunities.

As DO schools are concerned... I can't speak to pathology (not my cup of tea), but looking at some schools with DO/Ph.D programs (i.e. MSU, OU) might be worth it. Your stats are competitive enough to get a look as an OOS student (IMO; your results may vary), and both school are linked to full-on universities.

If you have a chance, I'd highly recommend shadowing a pathologist (if you haven't already). There may also be some opportunities to sit in on grand rounds, tumor boards, etc. if you have a local teaching hospital (call ahead and let them know you're coming, though!).

Originally Posted by GimpGenius

Getting some healthcare experience is definitely worth it. If the market's saturated, I'd also suggest volunteering; most places won't turn down free help, and if you show up and do the job well, it can translate into some pretty cool opportunities.

As DO schools are concerned... I can't speak to pathology (not my cup of tea), but looking at some schools with DO/Ph.D programs (i.e. MSU, OU) might be worth it. Your stats are competitive enough to get a look as an OOS student (IMO; your results may vary), and both school are linked to full-on universities.

If you have a chance, I'd highly recommend shadowing a pathologist (if you haven't already). There may also be some opportunities to sit in on grand rounds, tumor boards, etc. if you have a local teaching hospital (call ahead and let them know you're coming, though!).

I am already volunteering and I have shadowed two pathologists. I loved the work, it was extremely engaging!

I will check out those programs, but I don't have a lot of research to back up an interest in a PhD program. Why is the PhD advantageous?

Thanks for the advice!

It's not necessarily advantageous, but schools with a research track (i.e. an DO/Ph.D program) might have more chances to get involved with pathology studies. I don't have the foggiest idea of how competitive pathology is, but research in medical school (even if you don't take the dual-degree route) can't hurt.

I mentioned MSU and OU specifically because 1) I know they have research opportunities (MSU is a major univeristy, and OU's beefing up their program with the Heritage endowment) and 2) both states are pretty DO-friendly relative to other areas (more AOA residencies = more options if you change your mind during rotations).

If you can, contact the schools that might interest you, and see what they have to say.

Originally Posted by GimpGenius

It's not necessarily advantageous, but schools with a research track (i.e. an DO/Ph.D program) might have more chances to get involved with pathology studies. I don't have the foggiest idea of how competitive pathology is, but research in medical school (even if you don't take the dual-degree route) can't hurt.

I mentioned MSU and OU specifically because 1) I know they have research opportunities (MSU is a major univeristy, and OU's beefing up their program with the Heritage endowment) and 2) both states are pretty DO-friendly relative to other areas (more AOA residencies = more options if you change your mind during rotations).

If you can, contact the schools that might interest you, and see what they have to say.

Ah, I see what you're saying - that's a great idea! Thanks again, that's really helpful!

Do you guys think it would be the same with Planned Parenthood?

I volunteered there as a medical assistant for 2 years in undergrad assisting surgical abortions. It was great patient care and experience so I def want to include it! However, I know its a really touchy subject! I applied last year and I basically kinda avoided putting what I ACTUALLY did. I mean, I don't think the admissions ppl would really look down on the organization, in general, right?

Any opinions on how I should go about it?

None of the physicians I know have any beef with planned parenthood, so I am guessing that is fine. They are a legally operating organization whose goal is to make sure people have adequate health care regarding their reproductive systems and choices. If a school had an issue with it, you probably wouldn't want to attend that school!!

Originally Posted by starstarie

Do you guys think it would be the same with Planned Parenthood?

I volunteered there as a medical assistant for 2 years in undergrad assisting surgical abortions. It was great patient care and experience so I def want to include it! However, I know its a really touchy subject! I applied last year and I basically kinda avoided putting what I ACTUALLY did. I mean, I don't think the admissions ppl would really look down on the organization, in general, right?

Any opinions on how I should go about it?

We did our residency GYN rotations at Planned Parenthood. They don't really do abortions in TX tho - too much of a bible belt. Yikes. Anyhow, I have this personal mantra: "it's right if it's right for you" expecially regarding religion, politics, abortion, homosexuality, and other personal preferences. I think knowing how to do abortions is a good skill to have as it really is hard to get that experience. I wouldn't include the procedure specifically but the time at planned parenthood is completely valid and definitely include it.

Originally Posted by scarshapedstar

Major props for having the chutzpah to list NORML, \.

As props to you for using chutzpah in a SDN post, which is extremely appropriate in this case. The classic yiddish story/joke that is used to show the nuances of a word, defines chutzpah as a boy who kills both his parents and then pleads for mercy from the court because he is an orphan

I just dont think that with those stats you need to do DO. I think you have a very good shot at MD if you apply more broadly and get rid of NORML on your app.

Regardless of whether or not you are a pothead, anyone who hears that you STARTED the chapter will automatically assume you are one. At the very least they will assume you've smoked pot before which is not something you want to bring attention to if you can help it.

Branch out a bit--add Loyola, Rosiland Franklin, GW, Georgetown, NYMC, Wake Forest, Tulane, Cincinnati, Wisconsin, Creighton, Iowa, Penn State, Drexel, Jefferson etc etc and you'll find an MD school that will take you.

Originally Posted by RedSox10

I just dont think that with those stats you need to do DO. I think you have a very good shot at MD if you apply more broadly and get rid of NORML on your app.

Regardless of whether or not you are a pothead, anyone who hears that you STARTED the chapter will automatically assume you are one. At the very least they will assume you've smoked pot before which is not something you want to bring attention to if you can help it.

Branch out a bit--add Loyola, Rosiland Franklin, GW, Georgetown, NYMC, Wake Forest, Tulane, Cincinnati, Wisconsin, Creighton, Iowa, Penn State, Drexel, Jefferson etc etc and you'll find an MD school that will take you.

Thank you very much for that - I've already included most of those schools, and ditched NORML. Nice to know I'm on the right track!