What do professional women (residents/attendings) think about this?

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Moved to Women in Healthcare.

To be honest, though, I don't think about having kids very much. I see a lot of kids in clinic; I'm not all that ready to have one. Maybe that will change when I am 39 instead of the 29 I am now, but I spent a lot of years barreling through school. I kind of want to be carefree for at least a little while. This could also all change if I ever met a man I could see myself having kids with.

I also disagree with her vehement stance against adoption. I have a few attendings who have adopted children who are just as happy and fulfilled as people who had their own kids. Then again, I am part of a common minority group; a lot of the facial/physical features that I see are not only shared by my parents, but with millions of people across the globe. I don't have a problem with adoption, and would consider it if I had fertility difficulties later on.

I'm sad for her that she wants her own baby so badly and probably won't be able to have one. I also agree with smq about the author's views on adoption and egg donors. But the topic is not at all personally relevant to me, as I have known I'd have a "child-free life" since my early teens.

I'm sad for her. I had my (planned) baby during my fourth year of medical school. I'm obviously of the "women can have it all" school of thought but I know this lifestyle isn't for every woman out there.

I am very pro-adoption and have always planned to adopt a child even though I also would like to have a biological child/children, so I do wish that people in the situation the author writes about would give adoption consideration. It is sad when someone talks about how desperate they are to have a child but then decides to totally give up on being a parent just because they can't give birth to the child. Giving birth is such a small part of what being a parent is all about. Raising the child is what matters, not whether you gave birth to the child or not.
I do think that some women have unrealistic ideas about how long they can wait to have kids. Statistically, it is a very bad plan to wait until age 39 to start trying to conceive if having a biological kid is important to you. I would expect that most of us who are in the medical field realize that already, but professional women in other fields may not.

In medicine, I think the challenge we face is not that women don't realize that they only have a certain amount of time to have the kid, but that our career path can be SO consuming that it is difficult to go from the stress and responsibility of going through med school/residency to then jumping immediately into parenthood in your early 30s.
I definitely wish that there was a way to put life on hold for a while so I could have a few years to enjoy life without taking on the extra responsibility of parenthood right away...without risking that I would run out of time to have kids.
Unfortunately, a sad part of life that we all have to deal with is that there are forks in the road as you go along in life and making one choice may close other doors.

WOW what a loser. There is no such thing as true love, and eventually women are suppose to grow up and realize life is not a fairy tale. Being unrealistic and childish leads to purchasing sperm at 40.

Originally Posted by kg062007

WOW what a loser. There is no such thing as true love, and eventually women are suppose to grow up and realize life is not a fairy tale. Being unrealistic and childish leads to purchasing sperm at 40.

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I think there is an important lesson to remeber for all professional women. Time waits for no-one.
As she says, we should all start listening to our bodies instead of our bosses.
I believe all women in medicine are in danger of being so busy trying to prove their equality to their male collegues and bosses, that they simply forget to have their children.
Men have the luxury of having the option to devote themselves only to their careers untill their mid-thirties. We simply do not and we should all realise this before it's too late.

Originally Posted by Janedoedoctor

I think there is an important lesson to remeber for all professional women. Time waits for no-one.
As she says, we should all start listening to our bodies instead of our bosses.
I believe all women in medicine are in danger of being so busy trying to prove their equality to their male collegues and bosses, that they simply forget to have their children.
Men have the luxury of having the option to devote themselves only to their careers untill their mid-thirties. We simply do not and we should all realize this before it's too late.

I agree. Women who want to have families absolutely must consider this heavily when choosing a career. Going through med school /Ph.D. and pursuing a long residency may leave a woman with a M.D. degree babyless and too old to get pregnant, and if she does the pregnant the risk of complications is much greater. I know I sound sexist but I believe what my anatomy professor told me. women who want to have families should pursue a different career. Something much shorter. I do believe in equality but at some point we must accept that men and woman are different. the fact than men can have a child at 50 with little difficulty compared to 20 and no complications is just a fact of life.

Originally Posted by Staradmiral

I agree. Women who want to have families absolutely must consider this heavily when choosing a career. Going through med school /Ph.D. and pursuing a long residency may leave a woman with a M.D. degree babyless and too old to get pregnant, and if she does the pregnant the risk of complications is much greater. I know I sound sexist but I believe what my anatomy professor told me. women who want to have families should pursue a different career. Something much shorter. I do believe in equality but at some point we must accept that men and woman are different. the fact than men can have a child at 50 with little difficulty compared to 20 and no complications is just a fact of life.

This is not what I said and I strongly disagree with you.

You sound very sexist indeed. If you are a woman yourself, I'm very sorry you're so misguided about your career possibilities. Your anatomy professor should be fired for spreading such misogynist crap among students.

Women shouldn't stay away from high-profile careers in medicine just because there is a biological imperative to have our kids before 35.

Any determined woman with a supportive husband has the strenght and capability to do both.

Moreover, do you really feel that men, too, should postpone having a family until a ridiculously late point in their lives just so they can devote themselves completely to the ratrace that is medicine? You realise that a 50 year old dad needs a partner at least 15 years younger than himself, and that he will be 68!
when the kid graduates highschool? Any system requiring such sacrifices from the participants (male or female) is inhumane.

Originally Posted by Vee

I'm sad for her. I had my (planned) baby during my fourth year of medical school. I'm obviously of the "women can have it all" school of thought but I know this lifestyle isn't for every woman out there.

Just curious, from your experience, which med school year is best to have a baby? I'm having my first right now, and applying to med school. But I want a second, and don't know when would be best...
Thanks.

Originally Posted by Janedoedoctor

This is not what I said and I strongly disagree with you.

You sound very sexist indeed. If you are a woman yourself, I'm very sorry you're so misguided about your career possibilities. Your anatomy professor should be fired for spreading such misogynist crap among students.

Women shouldn't stay away from high-profile careers in medicine just because there is a biological imperative to have our kids before 35.

Any determined woman with a supportive husband has the strenght and capability to do both.

Moreover, do you really feel that men, too, should postpone having a family until a ridiculously late point in their lives just so they can devote themselves completely to the ratrace that is medicine? You realise that a 50 year old dad needs a partner at least 15 years younger than himself, and that he will be 68!
when the kid graduates highschool? Any system requiring such sacrifices from the participants (male or female) is inhumane.

well then I must continue to disagree. Even if a woman has her children at an earlier age such as during medical school or residency then the problem of not spending enough time with the children arises. This one goes for both men and woman. Medical school and residency consumes alot of time. I do not believe it allows proper time to be spent with children and day care is not an excuse for not spending time with kids. I read a paper on a doctor who had two kids during residency, and she could only spend about 2h/day with them not including sleep, and yet she claimed that she "did it all". Having only enough time to tuck your kids into bed is not parenting... The only real solution is to have a stay at home husband or part time working husband.

You may call me sexist if you wish. I believe men and woman are different. I do believe in what my prof told me. I knew it before he told me. I believe certain jobs are the domain of men and some the domain of woman. Neither is superior to the other. My sister is in dentistry school, i believe thats an excellent choice because she'll be a fully licensed dentist by age 25, can chose her own hours since she'll have her own private clinic which makes time for kids.

And I do believe certain career sacrifices should be made for those who want to have children men and women, earlier for woman because of their biology. (yeah thats' unfair, blame evolution). How someone can be a 60h/week resident and call themselves a proper parent is beyond me.

I feel men should have their kids by 40 to be able to watch them grow up and support them through school. I believe woman should have kids by 30 due to health reasons eg. down syndrome.

Originally Posted by lnphan

Just curious, from your experience, which med school year is best to have a baby? I'm having my first right now, and applying to med school. But I want a second, and don't know when would be best...
Thanks.

Fourth year (early fall) worked out great for me. I didn't start interviews until she was 6 weeks old and then I had the rest of the year to enjoy being with her because fourth year is so relaxing. Third year would be the worst choice by far. First year would be difficult only because beginning med school is a transition in and of itself without adding a baby to the mix. Second year wouldn't be too bad except that you have step 1 to study for towards the end. There's no "right time" to have a baby but fourth year has definitely been a great choice for us so far.

Originally Posted by Staradmiral

well then I must continue to disagree. Even if a woman has her children at an earlier age such as during medical school or residency then the problem of not spending enough time with the children arises. This one goes for both men and woman. Medical school and residency consumes alot of time. I do not believe it allows proper time to be spent with children and day care is not an excuse for not spending time with kids. I read a paper on a doctor who had two kids during residency, and she could only spend about 2h/day with them not including sleep, and yet she claimed that she "did it all". Having only enough time to tuck your kids into bed is not parenting... The only real solution is to have a stay at home husband or part time working husband.

You may call me sexist if you wish. I believe men and woman are different. I do believe in what my prof told me. I knew it before he told me. I believe certain jobs are the domain of men and some the domain of woman. Neither is superior to the other. My sister is in dentistry school, i believe thats an excellent choice because she'll be a fully licensed dentist by age 25, can chose her own hours since she'll have her own private clinic which makes time for kids.

And I do believe certain career sacrifices should be made for those who want to have children men and women, earlier for woman because of their biology. (yeah thats' unfair, blame evolution). How someone can be a 60h/week resident and call themselves a proper parent is beyond me.

I feel men should have their kids by 40 to be able to watch them grow up and support them through school. I believe woman should have kids by 30 due to health reasons eg. down syndrome.

I have a number of things to say in response.

Firstly, it is clear that you are not a fan of women in medicine, or in any kind of high-profile professional position. Then why are you here provoking us with your inflammatory opinions on how we should run our lives? What professional choices we should make, when we should have our kids and how we should organise their upbringing, ... There seems to be only one proper way to do it and you have it completely figured out for us.
I'm a big fan of personal freedom and of letting people make their own choices in life. I don't really understand why you feel the need to tell other people how they should run theirs (down to the very details, I might add).

I wholeheartedly agree with you that the most important ingredient of good parenting is having time to spend with your children. And that a resident or fellow does not have that kind of time. However, a child has TWO parents. And in my most humble opinion, it doesn't really matter which one of them devotes most of his/her time to the kids. I come to my first point about personal freedom again: let people do what thery're good at, not what society dictates they should do. I'm a type A personality go-getter. My husband is much more laid-back. Why should I be the stay at home mom and he the breadwinner if it makes us both unhappy? Because you and your anatomy professor say so?

Thirdly, your quote ' How someone can be a 60h/week resident and call themselves a proper parent is beyond me.' really yanks my chain. Have you ever stuck your head out into the real world and had a good look around? With the economy being what it is right now, it's not just the residents who are working 60+ hours a week to keep their families clothed, fed and educated. There are just so many good people out there working 2 or 3 different jobs trying to make ends meet. Do you really believe they are not 'proper parents' as well? The upper- and middle-class obsession that the only 'proper' upbringing is one by a stay at home mother is crumbling under the financial reality. Working-class people never had this idea because they have never been able to manage on one income, not even back in those days when all was stil cookies and cream with the economy. You really are out of touch with reality here.

Lastly, do you really believe that all women over 30 and all men over 40 should just stop trying for that baby, because they are past their 'baby-making-expiration date'? How are you going to enforce this rule? Mandatory sterilisation?