2011-2012 Duke-NUS Graduate Medical School

SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)

hahas suc, i think we had the same applicant day! i was quite interested to see if ncrassa was the only other person i rmb from app day... mm, it was this Chem eng girl from NTU...

suc, the world is a small place! You wouldn't believe how many Singaporeans I came into contact with over the course of my interviews...

I really liked the people I interviewed with at Duke-NUS and would likely be very happy until...residency, bond, etc.

Pinkkitty, were you in the first interview day as well? I am not any of those things you mentioned!

hahas! oops, I thought u might have been! Cos that girl had really stellar stats too so I thought she might have been accepted early also. Yea, I was there at the first interview day too (:

Hey for the international applicants, have you guys ever thought of the military service that your kids would have to do if you end up staying and raise a family in Singapore? This just came across my mind and I'm not too sure what to think of it. If I cannot do residency elsewhere and if the Singapore medical boards are not recognized elsewhere, I'll be stuck even after the 5 year bond. I'm fine with the 5 year bond, but I want some flexibility AFTER that. Anyone else have similar concerns?

Originally Posted by keepontrying

Hey for the international applicants, have you guys ever thought of the military service that your kids would have to do if you end up staying and raise a family in Singapore? This just came across my mind and I'm not too sure what to think of it. If I cannot do residency elsewhere and if the Singapore medical boards are not recognized elsewhere, I'll be stuck even after the 5 year bond. I'm fine with the 5 year bond, but I want some flexibility AFTER that. Anyone else have similar concerns?

That's a good point, Keepontrying..I didn't think of that until you mentioned it. I guess we have to hope to get girls..or get married to other non-Singaporean PRs so they won't get Singaporean citizenship when they're born? Otherwise we'd have to retake the board exams in whatever country we decide to go after our 5 years I guess.

Yeah....this makes me wonder if going to Flinders in Australia would be a better option, though the flexibility comes with uncertainty of landing an internship as well. The fact that we can all find a job after graduation is much more reassuring than going to Australia as an international student....but the fact that the bond in reality is not 5 years but lifetime in Singapore kinda scares me.

Trust me, the military service is not as bad as it sounds I have personally gone through the whole of it and I'm glad I did, in retrospect of course, because I complained alot when I was in it lol. I would definitely want my kids to go through it too. It's not just serving the nation, but national service really broaden one's perspectives and matures him. And with the right attitude, one can take away many positives from it that will shape your life later. If you have encountered medical students from both our local undergraduate course (most guys will complete their medical degree first before serving national service) and Duke-NUS, you may notice a difference...

Originally Posted by RunnersHigh

Trust me, the military service is not as bad as it sounds I have personally gone through the whole of it and I'm glad I did, in retrospect of course, because I complained alot when I was in it lol. I would definitely want my kids to go through it too. It's not just serving the nation, but national service really broaden one's perspectives and matures him. And with the right attitude, one can take away many positives from it that will shape your life later. If you have encountered medical students from both our local undergraduate course (most guys will complete their medical degree first before serving national service) and Duke-NUS, you may notice a difference...

i think so too. not a guy but i watched as all my friends grow from it.

but it might be true that you'd be stuck here after serving the bond because i think even though it's an M.D. degree the residency program in sg is not that recognized? Not yet at least. Likewise the sg undergrad medical students will not be recognized overseas either. neither is our pharmacy/dentistry degree for that matter. so for that yea, it's something you might want to consider.

Well I discussed this with American boards who are planning to introduce their board exam in Singapore. Although not confirmed, but Singapore is planning to have American board exams (or similar) as their exit exam. I feel it would provide more credibility to the training!!...Many countries such as New Zealand, Malaysia and UK does accept Singapore board certification. However, USA and Canada are the only ones who are skeptical about the training of other countries ( not just Singapore)- however, except for the top surgery residencies (cardio,neuro, plastic and Uro) all others are ACGME-I certified ( although not equivalent but similar to ACGME). So according to Duke-NUS if you plan on practicing in US you have to do the training again but a few years from the training would be kocked off to be board certified there. Hope this info helps you guys!!!

Originally Posted by keepontrying

Hey for the international applicants, have you guys ever thought of the military service that your kids would have to do if you end up staying and raise a family in Singapore? This just came across my mind and I'm not too sure what to think of it. If I cannot do residency elsewhere and if the Singapore medical boards are not recognized elsewhere, I'll be stuck even after the 5 year bond. I'm fine with the 5 year bond, but I want some flexibility AFTER that. Anyone else have similar concerns?

Your children may or may not be required to serve National Service, depending on the laws at that time, which will be when they are 16 years old and above. They can decide for themselves if they want to serve at that age, and if not, you can always emigrate with your family.

I think that like what RunnersHigh said, it is not as bad as it sounds. Think about it, in about 20 years time, national service will not be like what it is now. It will be more advanced, hi-tech, professional, etc. Also, if your child grows up for 16+ years in Singapore, he would have assimilated into the local system and going to national service would come as a very natural thing that he does together with his schoolmates. In this case, there wouldn't be a problem at all.

No offence, but I feel that you are worrying too much about something very trivial (maybe it's because you don't understand the system well). This should be the least of your concerns right now

Originally Posted by DrBroker

Your children may or may not be required to serve National Service, depending on the laws at that time, which will be when they are 16 years old and above. They can decide for themselves if they want to serve at that age, and if not, you can always emigrate with your family.

I think that like what RunnersHigh said, it is not as bad as it sounds. Think about it, in about 20 years time, national service will not be like what it is now. It will be more advanced, hi-tech, professional, etc. Also, if your child grows up for 16+ years in Singapore, he would have assimilated into the local system and going to national service would come as a very natural thing that he does together with his schoolmates. In this case, there wouldn't be a problem at all.

No offence, but I feel that you are worrying too much about something very trivial (maybe it's because you don't understand the system well). This should be the least of your concerns right now

Thanks for the inputs everyone. You're absolutely right that I'm worrying too much about something so far in the future haha. Even though I have relatives in Singapore, I honestly don't know the system VERY well as you can tell, and so I want to know what other options are available IF I decide to not stay in Singapore after serving the bond.

Agree with RunnersHigh and Dr. Broker. National service is really not that difficult and it keeps getting easier... Don't worry about that right now, though the larger concern about how the bond might restrict your future practice options is very valid and a major reason for my withdrawing my place.

Also, Duke-NUS can be pretty wishy washy about potentially pursuing a residency in the U.S. and deferring the bond. I understand that MOH is really tightening the noose on these deferrals. For instance, from last year's graduating class, only one person went to the U.S. [Duke] for residency, according to the presentation on interview day.

Furthermore...

You can do your residency here but you don't have to get PR status or citizenship status - which are the only two determinants of whether or not your male children would do NS. Even still, when you take PR status, you can choose to have your child as someone on student visa (international kid) or a dependent (who will then take on the PR status, but can STILL decide if they want to forfeit the PR at age 18 so they can avoid NS)

In other words - national service is by no means a must. I have friends who have avoided NS and just don't come back to Singapore (they are black-listed) for all intents and purposes. They essentially forfeit the Singaporean citizenship - which although gives you great visa status when looking to travel, is more restrictive then access-providing in my perspective.

As far as what I know Re: residency programs - Canada and USA MD degrees are the only ones that are essentially recognized world wide. Doing the MD at duke-nus entitles you to TRY and enter the 'residency' program in Singapore (which right now is a house-man-ship program disguised as a residency program by the looks of things), but even that may only knock off a few years if you intend on re-doing training in the states so you can be accredited in the states or canada.

Lastly - if you are worried about the bond and you are already thinking about leaving singapore even before doing your duke-nus degree, then it might not be for you. That is the advice i had when I applied the first time and the second time, and although I have received the offer, it's not even the bond that is the greatest issue - it's the fact that there are no guarantees. In other words
1) I might be bonded and without a 'residency'
2) I might be bonded and thrust into the 'house-officer' system along with NUS and MBBS grads (undergrad medicine)
3) I might be bonded with no residency and required to do research at biopolis

--> Remember - their main task is to create clinician scientists, and I doubt they are looking to create 'doctors' per se. Just my two cents.

Originally Posted by outsider89

Furthermore...

Lastly - if you are worried about the bond and you are already thinking about leaving singapore even before doing your duke-nus degree, then it might not be for you. That is the advice i had when I applied the first time and the second time, and although I have received the offer, it's not even the bond that is the greatest issue - it's the fact that there are no guarantees. In other words
1) I might be bonded and without a 'residency'
2) I might be bonded and thrust into the 'house-officer' system along with NUS and MBBS grads (undergrad medicine)
3) I might be bonded with no residency and required to do research at biopolis

--> Remember - their main task is to create clinician scientists, and I doubt they are looking to create 'doctors' per se. Just my two cents.

Well there are no guarantees for any medical school I think. Residency selection is competitive anywhere so if I don't do well in medical school, I'll get some crappy residency spots, even in Canada or US medical schools. I don't know about the chances of NOT getting a residency spot at all, which would be concerning. I read that there are enough residency spots for the first graduation class of Duke NUS and that Duke NUS students are actually preferred because the US style residency system is basically tailor-made for them. The next graduation batches, however, would have doubled class size and so I'm not sure how that will turn out. You sounded like we are NOT expected to practice medicine, but to do research mainly. In that case, they don't need to spend so much money on a MD program as we will essentially be pHDs instead lol. I see where you are coming from but I don't think that's true. They sorely lack doctors who will contribute to research, even minimally. It's the same problem in Hong Kong too where everyone flocks to the private sector to earn money instead of contributing academically.

Originally Posted by ncrassa

Also, Duke-NUS can be pretty wishy washy about potentially pursuing a residency in the U.S. and deferring the bond. I understand that MOH is really tightening the noose on these deferrals. For instance, from last year's graduating class, only one person went to the U.S. [Duke] for residency, according to the presentation on interview day.

Don't you think that's because alot of students are from Singapore and want to stay for residency? If they are so unyielding, why would they state on their website that they are confident the Duke NUS program is well recognized by US residencies and students will be able to compete for the top US residency programs?

Originally Posted by keepontrying

Don't you think that's because alot of students are from Singapore and want to stay for residency? If they are so unyielding, why would they state on their website that they are confident the Duke NUS program is well recognized by US residencies and students will be able to compete for the top US residency programs?

I agree with what keepontrying has said. If they only need people to do research in biopolis, well, NUS science faculty alone can provide A LOT of such people (as it is providing now). To get a good residency program elsewhere on earth, one needs to work hard instead of just hoping to get into a good program which will provide good residency by default. Duke NUS as a IMG definitely cannot give you guarantee for a residency in the US. But as for Singapore, I think so! If not what is the bond with MOH for? If one cannot even get residency, how to serve the bond? Then will it become a way for people to escape from the bond? lol.

And for the comparison between Duke NUS and YLLSOM, there has been plenty of discussions and virtually almost everyone agrees that there is not too much direct competition as they have different focus and strengths. For Duke NUS graduates they are definitely more mature, have more experience in research, more motivated (coz after so many years they still want to do medicine, which means they really considered it more thoroughly than those who decided to do medicine at 18). When you say clinician scientist, the person is a clinician, which is, a doctor obviously. Those doing research in biopolis, we call them scientists.

Originally Posted by keepontrying

Well there are no guarantees for any medical school I think. Residency selection is competitive anywhere so if I don't do well in medical school, I'll get some crappy residency spots, even in Canada or US medical schools. I don't know about the chances of NOT getting a residency spot at all, which would be concerning. I read that there are enough residency spots for the first graduation class of Duke NUS and that Duke NUS students are actually preferred because the US style residency system is basically tailor-made for them. The next graduation batches, however, would have doubled class size and so I'm not sure how that will turn out. You sounded like we are NOT expected to practice medicine, but to do research mainly. In that case, they don't need to spend so much money on a MD program as we will essentially be pHDs instead lol. I see where you are coming from but I don't think that's true. They sorely lack doctors who will contribute to research, even minimally. It's the same problem in Hong Kong too where everyone flocks to the private sector to earn money instead of contributing academically.

Originally Posted by outsider89

Furthermore...

You can do your residency here but you don't have to get PR status or citizenship status - which are the only two determinants of whether or not your male children would do NS. Even still, when you take PR status, you can choose to have your child as someone on student visa (international kid) or a dependent (who will then take on the PR status, but can STILL decide if they want to forfeit the PR at age 18 so they can avoid NS)

In other words - national service is by no means a must. I have friends who have avoided NS and just don't come back to Singapore (they are black-listed) for all intents and purposes. They essentially forfeit the Singaporean citizenship - which although gives you great visa status when looking to travel, is more restrictive then access-providing in my perspective.

As far as what I know Re: residency programs - Canada and USA MD degrees are the only ones that are essentially recognized world wide. Doing the MD at duke-nus entitles you to TRY and enter the 'residency' program in Singapore (which right now is a house-man-ship program disguised as a residency program by the looks of things), but even that may only knock off a few years if you intend on re-doing training in the states so you can be accredited in the states or canada.

Lastly - if you are worried about the bond and you are already thinking about leaving singapore even before doing your duke-nus degree, then it might not be for you. That is the advice i had when I applied the first time and the second time, and although I have received the offer, it's not even the bond that is the greatest issue - it's the fact that there are no guarantees. In other words
1) I might be bonded and without a 'residency'
2) I might be bonded and thrust into the 'house-officer' system along with NUS and MBBS grads (undergrad medicine)
3) I might be bonded with no residency and required to do research at biopolis

--> Remember - their main task is to create clinician scientists, and I doubt they are looking to create 'doctors' per se. Just my two cents.

the deadline to accept/decline for those from the last wave of offers early this month is 24 April (tomorrow!). Once those who don't know how to appreciate a perfectly good offer when they have one decline, some of you excellent candidates on the waiting list will be hearing from Duke-NUS! rooting for you guys

Originally Posted by DrBroker

the deadline to accept/decline for those from the last wave of offers early this month is 24 April (tomorrow!). Once those who don't know how to appreciate a perfectly good offer when they have one decline, some of you excellent candidates on the waiting list will be hearing from Duke-NUS! rooting for you guys

Yes definitely good luck to those on waitlist, but I'm not sure if the bold part is needed. There are many reasons why one would accept or decline an offer. In mid-May, you'll see even more people (North Americans) declining if they are accepted to Can/US medical schools for obvious reason.

Omg! I got in. Words cannot describe how grateful i am. Omggggggggg !

Fj90, congratulations! You must be ecstatic.

Keepontrying, I agree with you that many Singaporeans would prefer to remain in the country. My point was only for those who want to do their residency elsewhere - it is not easy to convince MOH that you need to go abroad for your residency. Someone from the Duke-NUS administration told me this directly.

All this, of course, has nothing to do with one's competitiveness with a Duke-NUS degree and is merely a bureaucratic hurdle. I, for one, really like the Duke-NUS/Duke education model with the shortened preclinical curriculum, early rotations, and research year. It is very appropriate for anyone interested in academic medicine.

Originally Posted by fj90

Omg! I got in. Words cannot describe how grateful i am. Omggggggggg !

Congrats!! You must be super happy right

Originally Posted by fj90

Omg! I got in. Words cannot describe how grateful i am. Omggggggggg !

Congratuations fj90! Very Happy that You are in!! I'm still waiting for their waiting-list decision.

Originally Posted by fj90

Omg! I got in. Words cannot describe how grateful i am. Omggggggggg !

Congrats!

Originally Posted by fj90

Omg! I got in. Words cannot describe how grateful i am. Omggggggggg !

omg congrats! :')

Originally Posted by outsider89

Hi Everyone,

I am a re-applicant to Duke-NUS. Applied for 2011 entry in the 'early admissions' cycle with a 31S (12BS, 11PS, 8VR), and a 3.75GPA (Canadian University). Got wait listed and eventually rejected in July. Am an international applicant - was told my VR score was too low. Applied again for 2012 entry - this time in the regular admissions cycle with a 37R (11VR, 13BS, 13PS), interviewed on january 4, and accepted in the first week of february. Am currently teaching the MCAT in Singapore!

Some of my other stats for those of you who are applying (keep going, you will get there!)
One conference paper (Society of Anesthesia and Perinatology),
one paper in organometallics
research at Nanyang Technological Univeristy in anti-neoplastic drug development
Sick Kids Hospital (Toronto) - retrospective study on gabapentin's effects during pregnancy
Shadowed a sex-trade worker to evaluate effectiveness of harm reduction as it pertains to the sex-trade industry (cocaine use, opioid use)
Intramural and Varsity Soccer (Univeristy of Toronto)
President of Student Council (4th year of undergraduate studies)
BSc Hons Pharmacology with 3.75 GPA (Univeristy of Toronto)
Went to United World College of South East Asia (Grad 07)
Canadian Citizen

Have also interviewed at Dartmouth Medical School, Queen's University Medical School, and McMaster Univeristy medical school. Feel blessed to have been accepted in Singapore - this is where I grew up! Am rooting for everyone who has applied - I have seen the dedication and desire in students that I'm currently teaching the MCAT to (most of whom are in their early thirties/mid twenties)!

My advice: Duke-NUS is a fantastic option for students in this region, and I encourage all re-applicants to take a dedicated approach to the MCAT so they don't have to write it more than once. It really sucks! The interview can be an intimidating experience, but persevere! My MCAT score was a shocker and I have been teaching Singaporean students this year for the MCAT and they are all scoring in the early-mid 30's right now after diagnostic scores in the mid 20s. Happy to give tips - shoot me a PM

God bless

Spinning pimping into an EC is very innovative

Thanks guys!! Keep holding on! It will pay off soon : ) That feeling is so great!!

Originally Posted by fj90

Omg! I got in. Words cannot describe how grateful i am. Omggggggggg !

congrats!! was it by email???

Yup! Email from Is hi ta at 430 am Canadian time !! Lots of North Americans still waiting on news on May 15th so for all the waitlisters, a few more weeks !

Congrats fj90!!! are you accepting?

Originally Posted by ppanther888

Congrats fj90!!! are you accepting?

Most definitely I am! : D

That's great!! We'll see you in the official forum/facebook group then Congrats again

Originally Posted by fj90

Most definitely I am! : D

Congratulations! Looking forward to meeting you in July!

Originally Posted by fj90

Omg! I got in. Words cannot describe how grateful i am. Omggggggggg !

hey congrats! hopefully the next one will be me!

Originally Posted by fj90

Omg! I got in. Words cannot describe how grateful i am. Omggggggggg !

OMG Congratulations!! so happy for you, fj90!!

hey any of u heard news about financial aid, merit/needs-based scholarships? i need to make financial arrangements soon

Originally Posted by fj90

Omg! I got in. Words cannot describe how grateful i am. Omggggggggg !

Congratulations! See you in school. For those waitlisters, don't lose hope! There are currently about 40 incoming students in the student group. I assume the rest are still sitting on the fence or waiting for other offers to arrive.

Originally Posted by DrBroker

hey any of u heard news about financial aid, merit/needs-based scholarships? i need to make financial arrangements soon

Nope. I've not received my financial package yet, but I assumed that was because I belonged to the last applicant day.

Originally Posted by DrBroker

OMG Congratulations!! so happy for you, fj90!!

Thanks all! The encouragement and support here on this forum warms my heart. = D !

Did financial aid (for those who applied / or know someone who applied) come with the offer package? I'm curious too.

Originally Posted by fj90

Thanks all! The encouragement and support here on this forum warms my heart. = D !

Did financial aid (for those who applied / or know someone who applied) come with the offer package? I'm curious too.

No. The FA takes longer. In my case I received my offer in early Jan but FA only comes near mid April... I think scholarship will be even later because it is merit based, which cannot be decided before they finalize the class, right?

Just be patient. The most painful part is over.

I thought those who got an offer has to decide by April 24 to accept or decline it?

Originally Posted by justdoooit

I thought those who got an offer has to decide by April 24 to accept or decline it?

Yes, but the offer does not come with the FA package. You got to make a decision before your FA package comes in.

Originally Posted by medtopia

Yes, but the offer does not come with the FA package. You got to make a decision before your FA package comes in.

i see, so still got hope, thanks!

how many people are now in the official online forum group?

Originally Posted by will123

how many people are now in the official online forum group?

it seems to be about 31 from the introductions thread, but not everyone may have posted there so i'm not sure. the fb group has 32.

Originally Posted by fj90

Thanks all! The encouragement and support here on this forum warms my heart. = D !

Did financial aid (for those who applied / or know someone who applied) come with the offer package? I'm curious too.

fj90, congrats! I'm currently waitlisted too. If possible, could you share your stats? Thanks!

Originally Posted by hajime12

fj90, congrats! I'm currently waitlisted too. If possible, could you share your stats? Thanks!

I have 3.96 gpa, finishing up my undergrad right now and an mcat score of 32S.

Best of luck to you, class doesn't seem to be full yet. 32 people have posted in the "Introduce yourself" thread. There are 59 members in the group, but about 6 are MS 1/2, and a few student affairs administrative staffs. Still hope to all the waitlisters. If I can get off the wl, I know you guys can too. May 15 is the day, 19 more days! Keep yourself occupied till then! The wait is worth it, please don't lose hope!

Originally Posted by fj90

I have 3.96 gpa, finishing up my undergrad right now and an mcat score of 32S.

Best of luck to you, class doesn't seem to be full yet. 32 people have posted in the "Introduce yourself" thread. There are 59 members in the group, but about 6 are MS 1/2, and a few student affairs administrative staffs. Still hope to all the waitlisters. If I can get off the wl, I know you guys can too. May 15 is the day, 19 more days! Keep yourself occupied till then! The wait is worth it, please don't lose hope!

Thanks for the encouragement fj90. all the best to the end of your undergrad Your GPA is awesome! my school is on a 5 point scale, believe your's is on a 4 point scale? you almost hit the roof.

Originally Posted by hajime12

Thanks for the encouragement fj90. all the best to the end of your undergrad Your GPA is awesome! my school is on a 5 point scale, believe your's is on a 4 point scale? you almost hit the roof.

Thanks Hajime12, yes my school is on a 4.0 scale ( I think that's true for the rest of North America). I'm a strong believer that well-rounded students make the most compassionate doctors. Righteously, I think duke-NUS doesn't only look at gpa/mcat, but the whole package. So I don't think my gpa was the tipping point (for a better lack of analogy). Life experiences that broadened my experience and shaped my personality is what I think put me through. You get what I'm saying Though, it's hard to say what made them choose me. Anyways, I'll keep you guys updated on the group activities!